Spell price arbitrage

[manguard]

So I've been collecting Kunark spells since Velious came out since I prefer to level there instead of Velious. I anticipated (guessed) an upward trend in Kunark spell demand about a month into Velious and it seems like there is more demand now. However there are still some spells going at bargain prices when there are other people who have been WTB them for months. Sure it's good for the buyer's bank roll if they manage to find their WTB spell in a timely manner, but bad for the spell economy. This has happened to a few people I know now who were WTB spells.

How long will people wait before paying more for a spell they want? How can we set up a system where the people who WTB a spell, don't have to do so if they don't mind paying a premium to get it ASAP without feeling ripped off? Is it possible? Is the spell economy just too sparse to actually be its own economy because people who need spells will just either wait years if they have to or just farm it themselves?

Just another day in tunnel quest...

[Expediency]

The Kunark spell economy is currently not based in reality on this server. The prices do not match the utility and rarity of the spell. There are quite a few spells that are very difficult to find but sell very cheaply when they hit the market. There is a fortune to be made if anyone can bring order from this chaos.

[Expediency]

edit: double post

[Ravager]

WTS Pox of Bertoxxulous 50k, WTS Theft of Thought 5k, WTS Convergence 4k

You'll get some people laughing in your face at first, but do this all day every day for a couple weeks and watch all the tunnel rats follow suit.

[Era'viss]

This whole post seems to be about how to rip people off, and make this "economy" unfriendly to new players.

[Expediency]

This whole post seems to be about how to rip people off, and make this "economy" unfriendly to new players.

Spells are scarce. As long as there are more buyers than sellers, they will remain scarce. Do you have a solution to this problem of basic economics?

[Era'viss]

Spells are scarce. As long as there are more buyers than sellers, they will remain scarce. Do you have a solution to this problem of basic economics?

It's fake money on a game that you're trying to accumulate, right? So you can take your monocle off.

If it's someone who has hundreds of thousands of play, I'm sure they'll agree to the crazy high price. If it's someone new to the server who can't afford your crazy high prices, you're preventing them from getting their pixels because of your perceived price.

Wait... do you work for Turing Pharmaceuticals? :eek:

[manguard]

It's fake money on a game that you're trying to accumulate, right? So you can take your monocle off.

If it's someone who has hundreds of thousands of play, I'm sure they'll agree to the crazy high price. If it's someone new to the server who can't afford your crazy high prices, you're preventing them from getting their pixels because of your perceived price.

Wait... do you work for Turing Pharmaceuticals? :eek:

Spells are completely consumed once bought, there's no resale market unlike most gear.
Demand is up but prices are not. I think that's interesting and don't know if it will continue to be like that or not so I'm speculating on the price.

You know, so I don't get ripped off either?

[Expediency]

It's fake money on a game that you're trying to accumulate, right? So you can take your monocle off.

If it's someone who has hundreds of thousands of play, I'm sure they'll agree to the crazy high price. If it's someone new to the server who can't afford your crazy high prices, you're preventing them from getting their pixels because of your perceived price.



I'm not advocating a high nor a low price, Im advocating a market price. Leave the "fake money" trolling in another thread, please, if your PP has no value to you I'll be happy to lighten your load.

[Ele]

Spells are completely consumed once bought, there's no resale market unlike most gear.
Demand is up but prices are not. I think that's interesting and don't know if it will continue to be like that or not so I'm speculating on the price.

You know, so I don't get ripped off either?

How would you get ripped off? It isn't like they can say the spell is one thing then switch it before you click trade. (Should be able to do that though, classic and all).

If you agree to a price and later find someone selling it for less, the spell was still worth the purchase price to you at the time you paid it since you voluntarily entered into that trade.

[nhdjoseywales]

How would you get ripped off? It isn't like they can say the spell is one thing then switch it before you click trade. (Should be able to do that though, classic and all).

If you agree to a price and later find someone selling it for less, the spell was still worth the purchase price to you at the time you paid it since you voluntarily entered into that trade.

he wants insurance against possibly having sold something for a few plat more. in short, this guy is a fucktard

[manguard]

How would you get ripped off? It isn't like they can say the spell is one thing then switch it before you click trade. (Should be able to do that though, classic and all).

If you agree to a price and later find someone selling it for less, the spell was still worth the purchase price to you at the time you paid it since you voluntarily entered into that trade.

I was just saying "ripped off" in the sense that I would feel like I didn't get the value out of an item I earned by being uninformed when playing tunnel quest.

So you think there shouldn't be a spell market outside of the major spells? I could see that being one possibility.

[Era'viss]

I do want to express my appreciation for your civility in discussing this to both of you. You two don't seem to be ill willed, just curious.

It's just all extremely silly to me. This "economy" has the most bizarre money supply (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply) as it stands right now. To exacerbate the issue there's no financial institutions to even expand it to help level things out. In our real world (awful thing to say when talking about an mmo...), if someone needs a high priced item they can pursue financing for it. Not possible here.

My whole point is perception of a higher prices will cause barriers to newer players.

if your PP has no value to you I'll be happy to lighten your load.
lol I have approximately 2k plat. My load is extremely light as it stands right now.

[surron]

The demand for kunark spells when velious is the era is an issue dating back to classic live.

Here is a patch note stating increased drop rate on kunark spells http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010327.html

Increased the drop rate on some Kunark spells to coincide with the narrowing of the creatures carrying those spells as the game evolves.

This will be our March era patch... hopefully the devs have an idea on how they will implement this.



There is also a thread stating p99 does not correctly drop 55+ spells.

Bump.

Mobs which are mid 40-50 that drop spells currently are correctly dropping 51-54 spells.

Mobs of level 51+ (who summon) in Kunark who currently drop 51-54 spells should instead be dropping level 51-57 Spells. A list of these mobs:

Sebilis Trash 51+
Chardok Trash 51+
Skyfire Trash 51+
Howling Stones Trash 51+
Black Reavers (CoM)
**Gullerback / Nezekezena / Azdalin / Phurzikon (BW)

**These mobs arent all 51 but they are regularly listed as droppers of 51-55 spells.

Currently on P99, it seems that a mob needs to be level 53-55+ to drop level 55-57 spells, this should not be the case.

thread located here http://www.project1999.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1822731



This is a big issue especially for red where kunark spells are very rare.

Hopefully this will get the needed attention.

[Ele]

I was just saying "ripped off" in the sense that I would feel like I didn't get the value out of an item I earned by being uninformed when playing tunnel quest.

So you think there shouldn't be a spell market outside of the major spells? I could see that being one possibility.

I didn't intimate the position to not have a spell market.

Selling filler spells sucks. Mostly because people don't list prices in their /auction so there isn't much data to go by of market trends. I recently emptied out my trader's bags of a bunch of random Kunark spells for any reasonable offer since I was just going to vendor them. Didn't feel bad selling some for 50p and others for 1k after having them rot in my bags for years.

[Era'viss]

I didn't intimate the position to not have a spell market.

Selling filler spells sucks. Mostly because people don't list prices in their /auction so there isn't much data to go by of market trends. I recently emptied out my trader's bags of a bunch of random Kunark spells for any reasonable offer since I was just going to vendor them. Didn't feel bad selling some for 50p and others for 1k after having them rot in my bags for years.

Ele, I now love you for doing this. What a bro.

Holding on to a spell and turning away people who need them because you're not getting the price you want just boggles my mind. You most likely can't even use it, and you're preventing someone who can use it from doing so. What the hell is the point to that other than being greedy?

[manguard]

I didn't intimate the position to not have a spell market.

Selling filler spells sucks. Mostly because people don't list prices in their /auction so there isn't much data to go by of market trends. I recently emptied out my trader's bags of a bunch of random Kunark spells for any reasonable offer since I was just going to vendor them. Didn't feel bad selling some for 50p and others for 1k after having them rot in my bags for years.

I guess I was forcing you to answer the question(sorry) Yeah I get that it's lame to have to sell off all your 500p items AND the 500p spells but it seems like the net effect of it could be that some people don't get spells and other people don't get to profit by finding the spells except some very exclusive ones.

I just want a tstaff ok?

[webrunner5]

The whole economy on this server is totally screwed up. It is like some of the epics. It was not that hard to get a epic on live compared to on here. Yeah a Shaman and a Rogue epic is "Easy, but god help you if you are some other class. :mad:

I had a Ranger and a Druid epic on live, Mostly by my self, other than last couple of fights, 3 years in. This server is 6 F'ing years old and I have made zero effort to even try to get a Druid or Ranger epic on here. That F'ing sucks, and says a lot about this shithole servers economy on here..

God help you if you want to be a level 60 Shaman. Between gear and stupid ass spells horded by a few guilds and people perma camping shit forget that happening also. :o

If you want new blood on here make it so they don't HAVE to join a Bat phoning, perma Rading guild to get anything worth a shit. :mad:

I am not saying make it easy, but to just keep 4 million plat in the damn Bank is sure as hell not "Classic in the time frame we are in. Christ Velious Just came out. Who the hell had that much plat, gear in that time frame on live. F'ing nobody. :mad:

So Piss on people trying to make a shipot full of plat for top end spells.

[Pokesan]

DoF needs to arrest this thread immediately, idea not fun at all

[Era'viss]

So Piss on people trying to make a shipot full of plat for top end spells.

Pretty sure manguard was trying to find a way to get a Tranquil Staff (http://wiki.project1999.com/Tranquil_Staff), so he's technically dealing with the same problem. It's just pertaining to an item instead of a spell.

I'm guessing that he's just trying to play by the same rules that the wealthy players created, while pointing out a problem with Kunark spells in this new era.

Like I said before he's not ill willed, just curious.

[clouddynasty]

I give away all spells that I find - usually to people I end up grouping with. I encourage everyone to do the same and ignore this silly post... or have it arrested as Pokesan suggests

[manguard]

Pretty sure manguard was trying to find a way to get a Tranquil Staff (http://wiki.project1999.com/Tranquil_Staff), so he's technically dealing with the same problem. It's just pertaining to an item instead of a spell.

I'm guessing that he's just trying to play by the same rules that the wealthy players created, while pointing out a problem with Kunark spells in this new era.

Like I said before he's not ill willed, just curious.

Thanks for saying it better than I can. I'm not trying to rip anyone off. Just renegotiating my salary.

[Expediency]

o exacerbate the issue there's no financial institutions to even expand it to help level things out. In our real world (awful thing to say when talking about an mmo...), if someone needs a high priced item they can pursue financing for it. Not possible here.

My whole point is perception of a higher prices will cause barriers to newer players.



I'm not trying to jack up prices, nor would I benefit from that, but I do think all of us would benefit from a realistic spell market. Only a few of the spells actually seem to rise and fall with demand. Trying to buy some spells is just awful, they cost less than 1k on the wiki but nobody is ever selling them.

Ill give you an example much closer to EQ.. greengrocer. If you want meat outside of him, you have to locate it, then figure out a price that is fair for everyone. Greengrocer brought order to the chaos of the meat market, allowing everyone to know how much they'd pay for something, and how much he would pay them for it. He made money on the margins, but we all benefited.

[Era'viss]

I give away all spells that I find - usually to people I end up grouping with. I encourage everyone to do the same and ignore this silly post... or have it arrested as Pokesan suggests

If this happened more often with items instead of just spells, we'd have a much happier and altruistic player base.

It's like webrunner5 pointed out....

Between gear and stupid ass spells horded by a few guilds and people perma camping shit forget that happening also. :o

Doing the opposite makes people pretty upset. I'd even go a step further to say you can see how manguard's exploration the idea of bending his behavior in a way that fits into a "selfish" play style as an example of this working in the opposite direction of being less altruistic. It's like being a victim of the culture that exists within the top side of the server.

[Era'viss]

Ill give you an example much closer to EQ.. greengrocer. If you want meat outside of him, you have to locate it, then figure out a price that is fair for everyone. Greengrocer brought order to the chaos of the meat market, allowing everyone to know how much they'd pay for something, and how much he would pay them for it. He made money on the margins, but we all benefited.

I'm extremely unfamiliar with your example. So Greengrocer would act as a broker for meat? He would buy from anyone who finds it, then sell to anyone who needs it but with a slight mark-up that doesn't feel abusive?

If someone could do that for spells, that would be awesome.

[Ele]

The whole economy on this server is totally screwed up. It is like some of the epics. It was not that hard to get a epic on live compared to on here. Yeah a Shaman and a Rogue epic is "Easy, but god help you if you are some other class. :mad:

I had a Ranger and a Druid epic on live, Mostly by my self, other than last couple of fights, 3 years in. This server is 6 F'ing years old and I have made zero effort to even try to get a Druid or Ranger epic on here. That F'ing sucks, and says a lot about this shithole servers economy on here..

God help you if you want to be a level 60 Shaman. Between gear and stupid ass spells horded by a few guilds and people perma camping shit forget that happening also. :o

If you want new blood on here make it so they don't HAVE to join a Bat phoning, perma Rading guild to get anything worth a shit. :mad:

I am not saying make it easy, but to just keep 4 million plat in the damn Bank is sure as hell not "Classic in the time frame we are in. Christ Velious Just came out. Who the hell had that much plat, gear in that time frame on live. F'ing nobody. :mad:

So Piss on people trying to make a shipot full of plat for top end spells.

It was extremely difficult to get epics on live and the devs insisted they were not for everyone. That is until they revamped them a few months into Velious, and later additions such as Hoshkar Green Scales (June 2001) and Ragefire in Skyfire (2002 Luclin).

Epic quests were added in September 2000. The quests were not solved until late September, into October, and November. By the time Velious came out there were very, very few Mage/Nec/Wiz/War/Dru epics across all the servers.

What opened these up was the epic revamps 4 months into Velious (7-8 months after epics were added, 4-6 months after they were solved).

It isn't so much the economy, but the on-going lack of epic revamps and the beta nature of the server. Example: VS should have been dropping 2 stones the whole time epics have been out, but he was not doing so for years. This means the server as a whole has lost hundreds of green stones that simply never existed, but should have.

[Expediency]

I'm extremely unfamiliar with your example. So Greengrocer would act as a broker for meat? He would buy from anyone who finds it, then sell to anyone who needs it but with a slight mark-up that doesn't feel abusive?



That was the idea, and his prices would rise or fall (he'd have sales) and he has/d a board posted of what he would buy, what he wouldnt, and how much he'd pay. Passing judgement on his profit margins is none of my business, someone could always undercut him if they wanted to do the work he did. The point is the certainty.

[webrunner5]

It was extremely difficult to get epics on live and the devs insisted they were not for everyone. That is until they revamped them a few months into Velious, and later additions such as Hoshkar Green Scales (June 2001) and Ragefire in Skyfire (2002 Luclin).

Epic quests were added in September 2000. The quests were not solved until late September, into October, and November. By the time Velious came out there were very, very few Mage/Nec/Wiz/War/Dru epics across all the servers.

What opened these up was the epic revamps 4 months into Velious (7-8 months after epics were added, 4-6 months after they were solved).

It isn't so much the economy, but the on-going lack of epic revamps and the beta nature of the server. Example: VS should have been dropping 2 stones the whole time epics have been out, but he was not doing so for years. This means the server as a whole has lost hundreds of green stones that simply never existed, but should have.

I respect your post, but you know and I know that in 4 years on here of Kunark that certain Guilds, TMO comes to mind, have perma camped, Batphoned the shit out of most top end mobs and cornered the market for them and their each 20 alts.

Then had the Balls for certain people to Peddle their wares, the Guilds wares, in the EC Tunnel for a shitpot of MQ plat.

Now I am not saying it is against any rule on here but the Devs let TMO just rule the damn Roost for years on here, basically screwing everyone on here that needed certain pieces for their Epic.

So pretty much "Classic"on here is about as Classic as dogshit for lunch. :o

[NegaStoat]

I respect your post, but you know and I know that in 4 years on here of Kunark that certain Guilds, TMO comes to mind, have perma camped, Batphoned the shit out of most top end mobs and cornered the market for them and their each 20 alts.

Then had the Balls for certain people to Peddle their wares, the Guilds wares, in the EC Tunnel for a shitpot of MQ plat.

Now I am not saying it is against any rule on here but the Devs let TMO just rule the damn Roost for years on here, basically screwing everyone on here that needed certain pieces for their Epic.

A lot of truth and salt to be found here. I'm personally am just playing for fun without any hard set goals for a character, burning time until the next P1999 offering launches that isn't Discord.

I think the server staff has learned a tremendous amount involving play issues and players from the Blue and Red 'experiments'. People will be jaded and state that the same things will happen on a new server, but the TMO / Nihilum bullcrap (just to name 2 examples) were learning experiences that they (the staff) don't want to see repeated.

[webrunner5]

People will be jaded and state that the same things will happen on a new server, but the TMO / Nihilum bullcrap (just to name 2 examples) were learning experiences that they (the staff) don't want to see repeated.

Pray to God they HAVE learned from this "experiment". I am not totally blaming them, who the hell knows how to start a new server from scratch, :p but have the foresight to correct a few, well a lot of glitches, along the way down the road on a "new" server. :D