Discord Topics

[Arshis]

Just finished watching that 2 hour long video about discord and somewhere within the video someone mentioned they would rather hear player opinions and discussions rather than polls. Sorry I can't put voices to names yet.


Noobie Spawn Locations
Randomizing noobie spawn locations might work. Other ideas might be , enable pvp at level 2, this allows for players to get distance and orient themselves. Or be invulnerable for 1 min after spawning.

Drops System
All items loot able. That reminds of of playing Diablo 2 hardcore mode used to be.

Point System/ Rewards
Maybe instead of thinking about 1 type of winner maybe there are 2 or more. These are just ideas.

Examples

"The Champion of Discord" title is awarded to the player who has an all around best averaged variables for..
player kills
best kill streak
player kill points

While there are people who are good at killing there are also people who are good at staying alive
"The Surived Discord" title , here are some ideas of variables that would make up the sum that would determine who was the best overall survivor.
death count
time played
highest level
named monsters slain

I think if you gave this idea a shot you would actually bring in a whole lot of other players who would normally ignore this whole discord thing. The survival players, the game mode dost have to all be about killing other players, that's kinda the way the you-tube discussion felt to me(just an opinion). There are more players on pvp servers who have mastered the art of egress than their are pkers. Probably because pvp wasn't balanced you had to pick and choose your fights.

Also in SoL on pvp servers they had a leader board system, if you feel lazy you could just use that if you can somehow get it into classic.


Spells

Charm, Fear and Blind are all some of the best parts about classic EQ pvp. Nothing like dieing to the group rogue.. ~.~

Experience Points

500% seems like alot. even at normal experience rate you could barely afford to buy all your spells every 4 levels. at 500% speed.. your really going to have to pick and choose what you can afford to buy. Your going to see level 20 warriors get raped trying to fight in cloth at higher levels your going to level so fast it might actually hurt you.

Group XP

I vote no bonus for group xp. The benefit of soloing is leveling with haste, the benefit of grouping is safety. I'm an old Tallon Zek player and back in the day items mattered more then levels. A level 8 rog could land max melee dmg on a wizard that was lvl 16 because wizard in general wizards had terrible armor class. Just the same a level 12 druid could land a root on someone who was many levels higher than him. Landing spells and melee hits had more to do with resistances and armor class than levels.
I played red for only a brief time and am unable to tell you if the pvp system implemented in red99 is similar to classic. To recap a level 30 wizard could not run in and slaughter an entire group of level 12's. Groups are slow and steady but safe.

Corpse Rot

I'd personally favor higher level corpse rotting over a period of 2 days. Classic traveling with no jboots or is rough. I think if a human monk died at the ent of seb, and he actually made it back to his corpse at level one. That in it's self deserves a reward but I know it's going to take more than 30 mins to run back there safely. I don't think catching a port is going to be very easy if at all viable. I played a druid on a pvp server if someone asked me for a port it went like this first med to full, buff self, med to full, port, med to full, buff friend, med to full, port. That normally took over 30 mins alone. You didn't risk porting just to be caught buffless and oom. 30 mins is just to little time to me. It takes away the hope of people even trying to recover their corpse.

Guards
On classic teams guards were called into action upon any player being hit, but they assisted the player who had the higher faction. It wasn't uncommon to see dwarfs having a higher faction in felwithe than noobie wood elves. All they had to do was turn in like a butt load of bat wings or something stupid. (you could also get non-kos to the cb orcs)

my two cents on other topics

How many winners there are should be based on a percentage. like 1% i think percentages are always a safe bet when deciding how many people should be rewarded.

If you want players to stick around on the server i'd change the loot decisions slightly. Losing your levels, spells and gear is down right heart breaking in a game like EQ. (I played hardcore on Diablo 2 and 3, those games are cake walk compared to EQ) I think people forget how hard getting a set of chain mail is when everyone has nothing and how easy it is to die. 'that griffon in EC .. is a down right psychopath"

Did they ever change it so pets worked the same way they did in classic? Where pets could tank because that would make a huge difference in the game play. NPCs used to attack the nearest player or pet, not always just the player.

Anyhow spent a good amount of time typing this up I hope it helps you create an awesome server. If you like my input and want to ask more questions go for it. I spent tons of time playing hc games and classic eq pvp.

[Chrisjones70]

Can't attack in newbie zones until after they reach level 6, outside newbie zones is free for all any level. With a 20 level gap being maximum.

Full corpse loot can be done, it's discord it is meant to be heartbreaking but that is why we have 500% bonus experience, you can get back to level 6 again and start beating on every one you see. Maybe banked items are kept over. Guards attack an attacking player makes perfect sense. It's gives some people a safe haven untill they are high enough to move to another part of the world.
Just a few ways I would like the server to go.

[krazyGlue]

I would like to camp the starting point for noobs . That's how I want this server to be

[DRAGONBAIT]

thats because ure an awesome person, an awesome player and u enjoy feeling the skill flow thru ur hotkeys.

[Tassador]

I would like to camp the starting point for noobs . That's how I want this server to be

[Gaunja]

Some good ideas in this thread

[Ghost of Jibekn]

make sure you enable pvp at level 1 in all zones.

dont need people rmt'ing on level ones

[miraclegrow2]

^ B B B B Bannedddddd

[billyretruns]

All lv 1 better be kilt..

500% exp is lame ass shit and will result in lv 20 in one day.

My 3 war 1 bard 1 wiz 1 ranger team is gonna fuck you

[iruinedyourday]

Thinking of quitting my job and making a human caster named Priest so I can win the 'of Discord' Title.

[Gustoo]

On live I think pvp began at level 10.

Level one pvp would be pretty bad probably, for server.

Lots of crackpot ideas here. Charm and fear on players would be very dumb.

[maerilith]

Don't qq about 500% xp. U can joust nooks with a rusty till 20 in a full day then go hunt plat/items in safety by being smart. Also don't be a mook itself an buy invis pots. Or play a bard.

[Kergan]

Just reduce the cost of spells.

[iruinedyourday]

yea with 500% xp, low lvl pvp wont be a problem at all.

Honestly we WILL see people doing naggy and shit with that kind of an XP bonus.

I predict multiple level 50s very early on.

That said, who cares :) no matter what happens, nothing matters and its all for fun :D

[curtischoy]

That said, who cares no matter what happens, nothing matters and its all for fun

[brecon]

yea with 500% xp, low lvl pvp wont be a problem at all.

Honestly we WILL see people doing naggy and shit with that kind of an XP bonus.



I doubt it....if PVE is permadeath. Too much risk to the encounter, plus too much risk that someone in the group stabs you in the back.

Now if you could resurrect...but rez times were a normal corpse timer/pvp timer, then that would change this sever considerably.

[Ghost of Jibekn]

dont think i even died to pve on my monk on red99 until level 60, not gonna be that hard if im actually trying to not die.

[strosz]

Very much looking forward to the Discord server as it is proposed, but just like Arshis says - the rules can be better tweaked.

- Level 3-5 would be good for enabling PvP. In that way there won't be people griefing defenseless lvl 1's. At Level 5 all the casters would have the basic starter spells and the others some economy to be able to do anything but just trying to mindlessly melee eachother to death while naked. Alternatively randomized starting locations are needed, but that would be too rough being lvl 1 in my opinion.

- One of the most exciting parts of playing at the Discord is the full item and money loot. I fully support that. Enabling PvP at Level 3-5 makes sense in this matter as well, because what's the fun/meaning of killing naked people at Level 1 with no loot?

- Corpse rot should be maybe 3 days. That makes it possible to try to get back to the corpse to see if the attacker took everything or not. Even in remote locations. Upon death you should respawn as a naked Level 1 at the starter location, with the possibility to return to your corpse and loot it.

- An alternative fun and grim corpse system would be to allow anyone to loot dead player corpses after a few minutes (similar to npc/mobs). That would create situations where you might stumple upon other corpses with something left on it that the attacker didn't take. And where the killer sometimes needs to choose only a few items that there is space and weight allowance for. Would be pretty interesting actually.

- For the future: A permanent PvP server with item loot would be fantastic. Either Discord or Rallos Zek-like.

[Ghost of Jibekn]

going to ruin this server if pvp is not enabled at level 1 in all zones.

[iruinedyourday]

I doubt it....if PVE is permadeath. Too much risk to the encounter, plus too much risk that someone in the group stabs you in the back.

Now if you could resurrect...but rez times were a normal corpse timer/pvp timer, then that would change this sever considerably.

nah with the xp bonus on red you can get to 50 with 6 pals and no deaths in a few days.

[HippoNipple]

I wouldn't worry about the level 1 experience. Make it so you don't get points or YT for killing anyone under a certain level. Still allow level 1's to be attacked. Not only is low level PvP fun but I don't like the idea of players being immune and safe from permadeath. Meaning they have a permanently safe bank to horde things.

[Teppler]

Don't qq about 500% xp. U can joust nooks with a rusty till 20 in a full day then go hunt plat/items in safety by being smart. Also don't be a mook itself an buy invis pots. Or play a bard.

What are nooks and mooks?

[Arshis]

A big topic seems to be , At what level should pvp be enabled?
I think its a topic worth discussing, but lets try and stick with some truths, I'll write the pros and cons to both of the ideas

PVP at level 1

Pros:
1) It mimics and holds true to the true nature of a Discord server (chaos everywhere)

2) Some players are looking forward to wrecking level ones, but would they quit the server all together if they could not plow level 1's? I'm unsure.

3) "Not only is low level PvP fun but I don't like the idea of players being immune and safe from permadeath. Meaning they have a permanently safe bank to horde things. " By HippoNipple

Cons:
1) Players who become a target of griefing might end up giving up on the server all together. Thus it will cause people to stop playing lowering the overall population, possibly the overall fun.

2) GM will have to take the time to make 20 spawn points for every starting city. "Could" cause possible bug issues, taking more time for the server to develop.

3) Possible exploitations may arise if killing low level players gives any sort of value. - By HippoNipple
----------------------------------------------------
Will add more to the pros and cons list when good valid points arrive in this thread.

[iruinedyourday]

IF the server will have a 3-500 xp bonus, this conversation about pvp at level 1 being an issue is a non issue.

It will take like 5 spiderling kills with a dagger to get to level 2.

It will take 30-40 minuets to get to level 6+

[HippoNipple]

IF the server will have a 3-500 xp bonus, this conversation about pvp at level 1 being an issue is a non issue.

It will take like 5 spiderling kills with a dagger to get to level 2.

It will take 30-40 minuets to get to level 6+

It becomes an issue if there is immunity and people have safe level 1 banker alts.

It becomes an issue if you can attack level 1's and someone comes in first because they killed 100 level 1's.

Just gotta make sure the point system negates low level kills and allow level 1's to be attacked in my opinion.

[Arshis]

My interruption of the podcast was they were leaning toward 200% I think?

[iruinedyourday]

I sure hope its 500 so I can get 50 in a few days.

[iruinedyourday]

It becomes an issue if there is immunity and people have safe level 1 banker alts.

It becomes an issue if you can attack level 1's and someone comes in first because they killed 100 level 1's.

Just gotta make sure the point system negates low level kills and allow level 1's to be attacked in my opinion.

yea I hear ya, it's an interesting challenge, coming up with a point system for this type of server.

If you make it 1:1 then yea level 1's would be as valuable as level 50s ad that doesn't work.

I bet they do something like the farther from the killers level that target is, the less points youll get.. seems simple enough no?

lvl 20 kills a level 1 and gets 1/10th of a point, a level 20 kills a level 20 and gets 1 point? Something like that I dono. Glad I dont have to come up with it :)

[Arshis]

Back when leader boards were enabled on Tallon, highest player kills were always like lvl 19 twinks. People with the highest player kill points were like the servers best pvpers all level 60. So the live server did have a varried point system. But classes were so unbalanced back then.

[Tradesonred]

Experience Points
500% seems like alot. even at normal experience rate you could barely afford to buy all your spells every 4 levels. at 500% speed.. your really going to have to pick and choose what you can afford to buy. Your going to see level 20 warriors get raped trying to fight in cloth at higher levels your going to level so fast it might actually hurt you.

I would think this needs to be fast because once the pop starts dropping it has a snowball effect thats hard to stop. The vets are going to be dominant anyway and most likely be trying to KOS everything that moves, might as well give the other folks the chance to roll again without too much annoyance.

Just reduce the cost of spells.
Probably a good solution. You can tweak as needed as you reboot server for "season 2"


Group XP
I vote no bonus for group xp. The benefit of soloing is leveling with haste, the benefit of grouping is safety. I'm an old Tallon Zek player and back in the day items mattered more then levels. A level 8 rog could land max melee dmg on a wizard that was lvl 16 because wizard in general wizards had terrible armor class. Just the same a level 12 druid could land a root on someone who was many levels higher than him. Landing spells and melee hits had more to do with resistances and armor class than levels.
I played red for only a brief time and am unable to tell you if the pvp system implemented in red99 is similar to classic. To recap a level 30 wizard could not run in and slaughter an entire group of level 12's. Groups are slow and steady but safe.

One thing i enjoyed straight away with wow pvp is you could stand a chance as a 27 with a 52. Not going toe to toe but getting some nukes in and spells while hes fighting someone else or 2. Not sure how hard this is to get right, where a lower level has at least a chance to root and flee, eat a hit or 2. edit: not sure anymore about group xp. On one hand it helps established vets get fast xp but also lets people who takes risks get that bonus xp. Group is only safer for established crews as you can bet griefer crews will bait people into joining their group so they can kill em.


- An alternative fun and grim corpse system would be to allow anyone to loot dead player corpses after a few minutes (similar to npc/mobs). That would create situations where you might stumple upon other corpses with something left on it that the attacker didn't take. And where the killer sometimes needs to choose only a few items that there is space and weight allowance for. Would be pretty interesting actually.


I like that, could even put a longer timer on corpses if it doesnt drain server resources, like 30-60mins corpse rot for player bods


It will take 30-40 minuets to get to level 6+

To me thats barely fast enough and maybe even too slow. People will die, alot. You dont want a bunch of people quitting on day 2.

--

The noob zone camping could be out of control, some thought would have to be put in to prevent this.

--

Not sure how hard to code but account shared stash could be interesting. Im not thinking through all the ramifications right now but dying in hardcore in Path of exile and at least having some starter gear for your next toon was nice.

[Kergan]

I don't understand why they don't just copy the rules from the live discord server. The fact that multiple people in the 20-30 range placed in the top 10 just shows it ended up being about PVP.

Just try it, worst case scenario you try something different in a month.

[Chrisjones70]

Live server done the rules of no pvp until level 6, only applies to newbie zones... gotta do full loot like live aswell and the 500% experience bonus will not get people hitting level 50, it will help people get to level 6-15 where they will b hunted by everyone else around that level, the point of the discord as I see it is you are always on edge in fear that you will be stabbed in the back

[Tradesonred]

I don't understand why they don't just copy the rules from the live discord server. The fact that multiple people in the 20-30 range placed in the top 10 just shows it ended up being about PVP.

Just try it, worst case scenario you try something different in a month.

Can someone post that? The discord rules and mechanics?

I would think the main difference is that the pool of population was probably much larger on Discord.

[Gaunja]

Pvp was enabled level 1 from live discord. I remember it clearly

[Chrisjones70]

Only active outside newbie zones, otherwise it was level 6

[Gustoo]

Yeah deff not level one in newbie zones I was w
Easily able to complete a bunch of late era newbie quest fess that was enabled in old world at the time.

The flaw with live rule set is that at least one person exploited the rules and farmed friends for kill points who all sacrificed to a lowbie to give maximum kill points. That would be totally abused here where you can make multiple accounts for free

So I think it should follow live except that. It's going to be good.

[Tradesonred]

Yeah deff not level one in newbie zones I was w
Easily able to complete a bunch of late era newbie quest fess that was enabled in old world at the time.

The flaw with live rule set is that at least one person exploited the rules and farmed friends for kill points who all sacrificed to a lowbie to give maximum kill points. That would be totally abused here where you can make multiple accounts for free

So I think it should follow live except that. It's going to be good.

To me thats the least of my worries. If 2 elf sim nerds autists wanna game the system for a month 14 hour a day to appear on top of a fucking EQemu killboard that gets reset every 2 months, so be it.

What should be more important to my mind is that some dominant crew doesnt depopulate the server in 5 days and how to cushion the griefer crews as much as possible, because they will be dominant and looking for "lulz". Again thats why i think xp rate should be high, so that losing a lvl20 isnt such a big deal. It needs to be fun to play, so that it doesnt depopulate fast, that should be top priority

[Veltira]

We have some preliminary discussion going on at p99discord.com Cant wait for this project, so excited!

[miraclegrow2]

wouldnt be too excited server will just be dominated by 14 hour a day playtime druids who think they are good at pvp.

[jcr4990]

wouldnt be too excited server will just be dominated by 14 hour a day playtime druids who think they are good at pvp.Only 14? Heh you're in for a rude awakening. Try like 18-20 hr a day.

[SamwiseRed]

Only 14? Heh you're in for a rude awakening. Try like 18-20 hr a day.

18-20 is pretty casual around here.

[jcr4990]

18-20 is pretty casual around here.I was giving a modest estimate

[cronik]

If xp is 500%, I'll seriously consider rerolling after the first painful death (5+ hrs surviving). If it's 2-300%, I won't even consider it... it'll be a one-shot deal and after the first "real" death I'll be done. I imagine this will be true of many.

On corpse rotting: lvl based, imo. if corpse is like 40+, I'd say turn off corpse rotting entirely. Someone could die either in a dungeon or to guards in some obscure location and someone else can stumble on the corpse 2 weeks later and it'd still be relevant. it's not like lvl 40s can generate a lot of corpses...

on lvl 1 immunity, it's a tough call. griefing will suck on either side of the coin. Maybe a timer on pre-lvl6 immunity, like 30m? It'd help prevent muling and crafting nonsense, amongst other things.

[Sirken]

one of the bigger issues with level 1s is not that level 1s will be griefed. at level 1, you really have nothing to lose on a discord server. i think the bigger concern is players rolling on level 1 characters, and using those characters to train and grief other leveled up players, essentially destroying the higher level toon, all while being immune from pvp, and nothing to lose from a pve death.

just my opinion, might not be the same for all of staff, could be wrong though, /shrug

[Chrisjones70]

Doubt that will be the case...The safest player will win this. Anyone can loose concentration and die or get sneaked up on while mid fight.

Even if people are on for 18 or 20 hours a day, they may have to start again when you log on for your casual 2 hours

[Furniture]

Why make it a race to level up first and not make a score based on a combination of lvl/kills/deaths?

So in order to win on this pvp you must demonstrate:
1)That you can avoid pvp the best
2)You can pve the best/fastest

stupid...

[Chrisjones70]

With levels comes power, but I like that idea best with more kills of higher levels = points, if u do it to low could have a bunch of friends purposely getting killed to give points away.. just do like live , points for kills and u loose 50% if u die

[hammbone]

one of the bigger issues with level 1s is not that level 1s will be griefed. at level 1, you really have nothing to lose on a discord server. i think the bigger concern is players rolling on level 1 characters, and using those characters to train and grief other leveled up players, essentially destroying the higher level toon, all while being immune from pvp, and nothing to lose from a pve death.

just my opinion, might not be the same for all of staff, could be wrong though, /shrug

Lv1 in non-newb zones = FFA imho.

@lv1 you bob 'em like a bixie

[Gustoo]

Because you can exploit friends for pvp points. You can't exploit friends for levels. If you are high level you are a threat and a target and you will be hunted. Don't worry about that. It will be all about pvp since killing someone sets them back so far and eliminates them as a threat.

[Tradesonred]

one of the bigger issues with level 1s is not that level 1s will be griefed. at level 1, you really have nothing to lose on a discord server. i think the bigger concern is players rolling on level 1 characters, and using those characters to train and grief other leveled up players, essentially destroying the higher level toon, all while being immune from pvp, and nothing to lose from a pve death.

just my opinion, might not be the same for all of staff, could be wrong though, /shrug

They might have something to lose, their patience, after a crew of griefers camping the noob area kills their 20th attempt at making a toon. You cant prevent it entirely, but id put some thought into trying to circumvent some of that. Thinking about it that will probably be a winning strategy. Have a crew of people killing everyone they see in the noob zones while another crew goes off to try to race to 50 to dominate.

Lv1 in non-newb zones = FFA imho.

@lv1 you bob 'em like a bixie

Good idea. Theres probably something there to think through to prevent training without draining GM resources.

If you guys plan to have a forum for discord, id say the sooner the better. Because the dominant crews are already organized and set up. They just need to say lets do this! People who might be new, returning, casuals would benefit from an early release of the forums so they can organize themselves in advance. Though they could just use a thread here but still it would build up excitement and motivation to set something up so theyre not soloing at the starting line.

[Tradesonred]

What i like best about the server is that we know its gonna get reset. So that gives much room to tweak things the next time around, having learned what the pitfalls are and not take things too seriously, although elf sim is always a serious thing for some people.

[Kergan]

Having any permanent form of protection would be a mistake. The R99 playerbase will utilize any loophole to the extreme.

[LostCause]

no safe zones screw that.

[Tradesonred]

Not really talking about safe zones, just laying out some potential pitfalls so people can colletively think about it.

[SamwiseRed]

kill or be killed. no safezones, no rules (cept hacking)

[miraclegrow2]

temporary server will be rampant with hacking

[Mus3t11]

The R99 playerbase will utilize any loophole to the extreme.

Damn we're a fucking plague lol.

[Chrisjones70]

No loop holes, just giving people a chance to get to level 6 in their newbie zone b4 getting hunted down. I can't see how that could be exploited ?
Hackers would ruin it like they did on live, you finally get a good level and someone zones into the zone on top of you and your dead b4 you know it.... was annoying

[Tradesonred]

No loop holes, just giving people a chance to get to level 6 in their newbie zone b4 getting hunted down. I can't see how that could be exploited ?
Hackers would ruin it like they did on live, you finally get a good level and someone zones into the zone on top of you and your dead b4 you know it.... was annoying

One loophole i could see is a character being invulnerable. So it lets people with lots of guildies be able to hoard loot in a bank mule by passing it to the mule toon somewhere hidden so he can run and bank afterwards. I dont really have a problem with that... if everyone gets to do it. So id close that loophole by making banks account-wide, if thats super easy to code. So even casuals/small crews can hoard some loot. At the same time it means a smaller amount of total space since you only have one bank for 8 characters. I dont know, thinking out loud.

I guess no protection anywhere... or maybe have a lvl range in noob zones

[Chrisjones70]

Your crafty u tradesonred haha I would never of thought of that! Yes loop holes will get exploited!
They are doing that in anticipation of dieing, and then returning to have a semi twink. I don't think it would be that noticeable, but we should know a week into the server

[Tassador]

One loophole i could see is a character being invulnerable. So it lets people with lots of guildies be able to hoard loot in a bank mule by passing it to the mule toon somewhere hidden so he can run and bank afterwards. I dont really have a problem with that... if everyone gets to do it. So id close that loophole by making banks account-wide, if thats super easy to code. So even casuals/small crews can hoard some loot. At the same time it means a smaller amount of total space since you only have one bank for 8 characters. I dont know, thinking out loud.

I guess no protection anywhere... or maybe have a lvl range in noob zones

Can't wait to loot your corpse

[tedsternator]

Just have lvl 4 or 6 prot in newbie zones and have guards care about faction like on live, it doesn't add shit to the server to have lvl 1s getting butchered at bind and keeps people from rolling up new toons which is lame, more fresh meat is better than camping 10 hp decaying skeleton newbs.

Guard faction/assists is a Good Mechanic, there should be some limited protection offered by being in a town but it shouldn't be reliable/should be gameable, NPCs and faction are classic

[cronik]

If xp is 500%, I'll seriously consider rerolling after the first painful death (5+ hrs surviving). If it's 2-300%, I won't even consider it... it'll be a one-shot deal and after the first "real" death I'll be done. I imagine this will be true of many.

On corpse rotting: lvl based, imo. if corpse is like 40+, I'd say turn off corpse rotting entirely. Someone could die either in a dungeon or to guards in some obscure location and someone else can stumble on the corpse 2 weeks later and it'd still be relevant. it's not like lvl 40s can generate a lot of corpses...

on lvl 1 immunity, it's a tough call. griefing will suck on either side of the coin. Maybe a timer on pre-lvl6 immunity, like 30m? It'd help prevent muling and crafting nonsense, amongst other things.

Quoting myself because it took two days for this to show up(mod approved!), and yet still posted two pages back.

If I had to pick right now, I'd go with noob-zone immunity for under 6, or even up to 9 (gives you at least a small chance to survive zoning away from starting areas). This place has too many bottom feeders who have their own definition of winning (xtreme griefing). I think the very rare possible abuses of immunity would pale in comparison to the starter areas/spawns being on lockdown an hour into the server if there's none. I'd rather a few peeps benefit from a mule bank since that affects almost nobody, in comparison to spawn-camping and griefing starting zones, which affects 90% of the population and WILL occur for the first week by people who have no interest besides playing the server start and griefing noobs in as assholish a manner as possible.

If there was no immunity I'd live with it and enjoy the server, but it'd be a HUGE deterrent to re-rolling much since there wouldn't be much point after the first few hours, at which point Jabober, Zoner, and Goner will rule the noob lands.

[Tradesonred]

This place has too many bottom feeders who have their own definition of winning (xtreme griefing). I think the very rare possible abuses of immunity would pale in comparison to the starter areas/spawns being on lockdown an hour into the server if there's none. I'd rather a few peeps benefit from a mule bank since that affects almost nobody, in comparison to spawn-camping and griefing starting zones, which affects 90% of the population and WILL occur for the first week by people who have no interest besides playing the server start and griefing noobs in as assholish a manner as possible.

If there was no immunity I'd live with it and enjoy the server, but it'd be a HUGE deterrent to re-rolling much since there wouldn't be much point after the first few hours, at which point Jabober, Zoner, and Goner will rule the noob lands.

Theres no way to stress this enough, it will happen, staff should understand this by now. Im not sure about the immunity thing, but people trying to lock down the noob zones either strategically or for lulz is a certainty. Were talking about a community that sits on a corpse for 20hours+ here right. I would think alot of people wouldnt be back for round2 of server wipe if first time around was that bad of an experience.

If xp is 500%, I'll seriously consider rerolling after the first painful death (5+ hrs surviving). If it's 2-300%, I won't even consider it... it'll be a one-shot deal and after the first "real" death I'll be done. I imagine this will be true of many.

On corpse rotting: lvl based, imo. if corpse is like 40+, I'd say turn off corpse rotting entirely. Someone could die either in a dungeon or to guards in some obscure location and someone else can stumble on the corpse 2 weeks later and it'd still be relevant. it's not like lvl 40s can generate a lot of corpses...

on lvl 1 immunity, it's a tough call. griefing will suck on either side of the coin. Maybe a timer on pre-lvl6 immunity, like 30m? It'd help prevent muling and crafting nonsense, amongst other things.


All sensible stuff. I also think the pace of the game should feel similar to path of exile hardcore, people will die alot (in general those will be the new blood youd want kept around), it needs to be fun to play. That was the mistake of putting in the xp loss in pvp mechanic, its not fun to play. Itll depopulate the server. Of course fun means different things for different people, but you can either make it niche and griefy to please a small population of Chewie-like players, or make the appeal alot wider by easing down on the grief potential. Id say you should be able to reach 60 in a day (24 hours) or two or three. Or else the dominant crew will just get there before anyone else and dominate for 2 months. I dont have infused science, thats what i think right now, maybe theres something i didnt see, take it apart. Thats what i like this time around is we get to weight the pros and cons of server mechanics.

[Tradesonred]

When i mean its not fun to play, i mean that Its mainly not fun to play for people not in the dominant crews. Even the top 10% non-casuals of the server should get this. Your lulz have to be tempered with a population that needs to be there for you to have your lulz with. I know some people here will never care about this, but some of you vets can probably get around to thinking that having a population around is healthy, for your lulz.

[tedsternator]

While I agree 100% with the noob immunity and that contributing heavily toward the server health (no one worth a fuck is going to quit because they can't grief lvl 1s, but tons of people will quit because 10+ mages are roaming the lvl 1 areas murdering everyone), the idea that you should be able to hit 60 in a day or two is completely misguided.

You don't want leveling to be so easy that some idiot druid can poopsock for a day and then spend every waking moment porting around murdering all the lvl 15s with absolutely no hope of reprisal. Levels still need to be hard-won and there needs to be some tension to grinding and being able to max out trivially circumvents that process and just encourages mindless griefing.

The best part about Discord is that it creates tension between leveling and ganking. PvP is going to be most interesting when it involves contesting zones, ambushes over camps, or running into other crews in out-of-the-way locations. Without this the PvP is just a boring fragfest and may as well not be EQ.

[Gustoo]

camps dont matter only life matters. PVP will be a matter of hunting down potential threats.

yeah there should be some noob protection. Like maybe 1 or 2 hour spell that goes away if u leave noob areas.

[Tradesonred]

While I agree 100% with the noob immunity and that contributing heavily toward the server health (no one worth a fuck is going to quit because they can't grief lvl 1s, but tons of people will quit because 10+ mages are roaming the lvl 1 areas murdering everyone), the idea that you should be able to hit 60 in a day or two is completely misguided.

You don't want leveling to be so easy that some idiot druid can poopsock for a day and then spend every waking moment porting around murdering all the lvl 15s with absolutely no hope of reprisal. Levels still need to be hard-won and there needs to be some tension to grinding and being able to max out trivially circumvents that process and just encourages mindless griefing.

The best part about Discord is that it creates tension between leveling and ganking. PvP is going to be most interesting when it involves contesting zones, ambushes over camps, or running into other crews in out-of-the-way locations. Without this the PvP is just a boring fragfest and may as well not be EQ.

People are going to poopsock anyway and it will be the dominant crews that will reach 60 first. Wether that 60 ports around ganking you at 15 or 43 will not matter much. I think what matters is that people can dodge the 60s poopsockers till they reach a level where they can challenge them. That process needs to be balanced (AKA fast) enough so not only poopsockers can muster the strenght to do it, especially if they die 2,3,4,5 times. And it needs to not be harsh enough that rerolling isnt an option. Because people will die to the dominant crews. Alot.

I see similar strains between what youre saying and people who were argumenting back then that if xp loss in pvp is removed, it cheapens the whole deal. Thats its just like Call of duty. It might be that it makes it more casual. But to me, theyre just different, not cheapened. What happens if the penalty for dying is too harsh? People quit. Theyre not more careful the next time around, they wont be doing ambushes over camps, it does not create more tension because you need players to have tension. They just quit. Youll have tension anyway if the death isnt crazy (just as you still had some when they removed xp loss), maybe just not "OMFG BREAKING MY CHAIR ON MY WALL THE NEIGHBOORS ARE CALLING THE POLICE" tension from the only elf sims hardcore who could take that kind of punishment and go right back on the horse.

If it takes a week for a semi-casual to get to level 35, so that the dominant crews roam around and kill everyone they see for a day straight when they get to 49, who the hell is going to start over after that? An insignificant amount of players, i would guess. So the server winners will be known after 2 weeks basically and well have to wait a month and a half for the server to reset. It is also likely that you will have lost some of these players forever, because the experience left a bad taste in their mouths, since it was so harsh.

Again this is just like getting ganked over and over 10v2 by the holocaust crew at red's beginning and accumulating PVE grind backlog. We drained a fuckload of players until xp loss was removed. I think its a valid analogy concerning what could happen if the penalty is too harsh for dying on discord.

Im on the same boat with that guy that says hell try one time and then quit if xp is only 200-300%. Thinking this through, what is the xp rate on a full group on red? like 450%? 500% feels not quite fast enough to me, thats an understatement. My take would be to make this a path of exile version of discord (in that i mean the speed at which you can plow through content), instead of classic discord.
Its not something to get pissed off about like i did on red sometimes, because there isnt a huge deal of my time invested in this, but the outcome is predictable. Server on lock down after 2 weeks and huge population drain until next reset, which likely will see alot less people rerolling. A faster xp server will be more fun for 90% of the pop, people will reroll if they die, actual pvp will take place, dominant crews get their lulz anyway, fun times all around, win-win.

What would be the bonus on discord, full % no matter what your group composition is? That is probably a good idea because some new people will probably fuck around solo a bit first.

Please continue the discussion, this constructive back and forth feels unreal on these forums.

[Tradesonred]

Keep in mind that im not that familiar with how the bonus xp is split exactly. To express it better, i would say that leveling solo on discord should be much, much faster than a good full group pulling non-stop on red. Solo is especially important on discord because alot of people will become detached from their crews (like a group of 40s losing 2 of their 6 members to a 60s blitzkrieg) and unwilling to group with randoms they dont trust when they get back to level 1.

[Gustoo]

Solo is going to be very difficult. Too easy to be killed.

[cronik]

There should be no group bonus, fully agreed on that. It'll be hard enough soloing, so let the xp be a global bonus.

Lots of good points on xp on both sides. Super-fast xp would add a hecticness to the feel of the server, for better or for worse. Changing zones faster, climbing faster, resetting easier (even if the result is the same), etc. I don't know if the admins have an interest in such a server, since it would definitely be a different beast if you could level to 50 in a few days (isn't this classic-only?)

Its kinda elementary since roaming bands will cleanse the land before long. Theres a couple of group comps that are virtually impossible to defend against if the level difference is high enough, let alone the threat of a solo 50 Druid. I don't foresee anything but genocidal efforts by many, so there's definitely a solid argument for pushing off the day that happens.

Maybe if the xp bonus dropped significantly in the 30s and 40s, but dunno how hard it would be to mod that for a throwaway server. It might help things if 1-30 were fairly easy, and it got progressively harder from there. Completely different server in that case tho.

[Eslade]

so much tldr.
can't wait to kite every mob in gfay for hours

[Kergan]

Quoting myself because it took two days for this to show up(mod approved!), and yet still posted two pages back.

If I had to pick right now, I'd go with noob-zone immunity for under 6, or even up to 9 (gives you at least a small chance to survive zoning away from starting areas). This place has too many bottom feeders who have their own definition of winning (xtreme griefing). I think the very rare possible abuses of immunity would pale in comparison to the starter areas/spawns being on lockdown an hour into the server if there's none. I'd rather a few peeps benefit from a mule bank since that affects almost nobody, in comparison to spawn-camping and griefing starting zones, which affects 90% of the population and WILL occur for the first week by people who have no interest besides playing the server start and griefing noobs in as assholish a manner as possible.

If there was no immunity I'd live with it and enjoy the server, but it'd be a HUGE deterrent to re-rolling much since there wouldn't be much point after the first few hours, at which point Jabober, Zoner, and Goner will rule the noob lands.

hey pal

only prob with level 1 protection is clerics with DA training the shit out of people

[Tradesonred]

Someone suggested some kind of buff that lasts for some time and drops if you go out of the noob area, seems like it would solve that.

[cronik]

hey pal

only prob with level 1 protection is clerics with DA training the shit out of people

If you're in a place where a lvl 1 cleric can get to you and train you/kill you, you're probably doing something wrong.

Its not like someone can train you every 5 mins either. Pretty sure clerics don't start with DA, so they have to buy it, then when they mem it it's still another 15mins before it refreshes. At some point it'll get old trying to train someone every half hour or so, possibly longer since they'll die some to mob agro while going to higher lvl areas.

Training is still possible without DA or player-immunity. It can and will happen, possibly while player-buffed (sow + hp). You can't stop all the ass-hattery, so you can only aim to prevent the bulk of it.

[Tradesonred]

Someone suggested some kind of buff that lasts for some time and drops if you go out of the noob area, seems like it would solve that.

Partly anyway. I guess its possible for a DE cleric to sneak out to SolB and train a bunch of kobolds. Im not used to training, we need a black hat trainer to turn white hat and lay out where the pitfalls lie lol.

[Kergan]

Nobody is gonna be in SolB

[Gustoo]

In this server just kill the level one clerics u see running around. Problem solved.

[Gustoo]

Hey Kergan don't give pro tips. Tons of people are going to be leveling in dangerous dungeons known for horrendous group and even raid massacreing pathing issues on this perma death server.

lol ;)

[cronik]

i can only imagine the board-warrioring that goes on around here to require new accounts to be mod-approved for a while.

Makes for posting to be a serious pita.

Server will be fun. The jackassery will be over 9000. Forums will be interesting on opening weekend as well!

[Tradesonred]

Nobody is gonna be in SolB

The zone youre in wasnt the point i was making.

[Kergan]

Hey Kergan don't give pro tips. Tons of people are going to be leveling in dangerous dungeons known for horrendous group and even raid massacreing pathing issues on this perma death server.

lol ;)

not 2 mention a place 5 minutes away from a city that can create clerics

[iruinedyourday]

I cant remember are they leaning to do loot everything, including no drop? I hope so I was just thinking would be fun to be trading guise's and manastones off eachother.

[cronik]

I doubt it'd be worth the effort to change the code for no drop looting.

And I'm having trouble picturing a bunch of people roaming around with guises.

[Tasslehofp99]

I propose that all players drop a "scalp" or "ear" marked with their name, diablo style, lol.

[Gustoo]

You lose everything including you levels when you die.

players can get whatever you have. there isn't going to be a lot of dungeon gear on the server because those dungeons have bad pathing and you risk your entire /played when you enter.