Four Loko

[Fourthmeal]

As Four Loko is getting banned in my state in the next week or so, I decided to get out and try some, having never tasted it myself (more of a scotch + water guy). So I visited my pal Karim at the neighborhood corner store, and purchased two flavors. Let me tell you guys, the watermelon flavor is absolutely disgusting. Fruit Punch, not so bad.

[Lanvaren]

Why does this post have absolutely nothing to do with Taco Bell?

WE'RE IN SERVER CHAT HERE BRO.

http://www.tacobell.com/cms/Site2Files/file78/pdp_crunchwrap_supreme.jpg
what's up.

[Nakara]

You don't drink it for the taste. You drink it when you can't afford blow but still want an upper with your booze.

[Fourthmeal]

Do you also double up the Crunchwrap Supremes? Jesus, I thought I was the only one.

[Fourthmeal]

You don't drink it for the taste. You drink it when you can't afford blow but still want an upper with your booze.

Buncha pansy 18 year olds got this drink BANNED

[Lanvaren]

Do you also double up the Crunchwrap Supremes? Jesus, I thought I was the only one.
I am something of a nut when it comes to taco bell, which is why you beginning to act like a normal person alarms me because shortly I will be alone again. So to answer your question, yes.

[Fourthmeal]

I think I might be in love with you.

[Fourthmeal]

I was making some posts about our new XXL Chalupa, but SOMEBODY (I'm blaming Uthgaard or Rogean or Cyrius) locked my post.

[Fourthmeal]

I wish Four Loko made a Snozberry flavor

[Fourthmeal]

I bet Tralina drinks 5 a day

[Shannacore]

I bet Tralina drinks 5 a day

If only I could afford such a thing

[Kich]

They're sold 2 for 5$ at my local gas station. I only get drunk every so often, and I hate beer, and whiskey is expensive. One can keeps my occupied all night and only costs 2.50. I mean it's either that or a 10$ six pack, when economics are considered, loko is just the most efficient way to be drunk for like 6 hours.

[purist]

So according to the above poster, one of these fuckers gets you drunk?

[Nakara]

It's the equivalent of 4.7 beers so that depends if you're a bitch or not

Kith you could also smoke some meth on the cheap dawg, I'm sure you'd enjoy it more than 4loko

[Francois]

That's my school, go CWU!

[Kava]

I enjoy all types of alcohol. I will do beer, whiskey, rum, Jager etc etc

If you have ever had Sparks, then it's a start... Four Loko is like 3 Sparks in one can. The problem is, you can definitely taste the alcohol. And the hangover is shitty.

I will never drink a Four Loko again, for any reason.

[Blazed420]

I'm telling you if you are going to try a four loko go for the lemonade. Easily the best of them all. Its like mike's hard lemonade that actually gets you drunk.

[Taco]

Fourthmeal, pull some strings and bring back the Chili cheese burrito!

[DevonG]

Fourthmeal, pull some strings and bring back the Chili cheese burrito!

these are gone somewhere?

confirmed still available in Toronto by me and my belly.

[Taco]

these are gone somewhere?

confirmed still available in Toronto by me and my belly.

I haven't seen them in years.

In fact, the last time I even mentioned it to a worker at one of the local Taco Bells here in FL they didnt even know what I was referring to. :mad:

Although I do remember being told they are available at specific locations.

[Deathrydar]

My wife bought a can of this last night when she went to get me a six pack. It's weird that I am seeing this thread now, because before last night, I never heard of four loco.

She took one sip and spit it out. She said it was nasty.

[Blazed420]

http://fourlokostories.com/

[Fourthmeal]

Drank two last night. Got drunk but no puke/no real hangover.

[SlankyLanky]

i drink these bastards all the time but they give wicked hangovers if you arnt careful.

[xshayla701]

wtb four loko right now :(

[Dantes]

Sounds like something that only high school children or douche bags would drink.

[fishingme]

Sounds like something that only high school children or douche bags would drink.

Hey, dont be jealous that were fucking up more and better than any generation before us

[Noser]

Joose taste bout 10 times betta

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1WxTIRnwRlBuY3K5Sa-gT2ucQ0vIX7El2oOwzfEsHyAc0PLxAjw

[Hasbinbad]

OMG A BUNCH OF COLLEGE KIDS GOT SICK FROM DRINKING TOO MUCH CHEAP HOOCH?!? NEWS AT ELEVEN!!

[Olacaten]

I love those things, i went and got 15 of them today because they get banned in washhington romarrow.

[Somekid123]

Alcohol is already hard on your liver [Not saying stop, believe me I drink]... but I wonder how much worse these are with all that sugar shit that amps you up.

[Japan]

diuretics mixed with diuretics = massive hangover and liver damage

[SlankyLanky]

I love those things, i went and got 15 of them today because they get banned in washhington romarrow.

well god damn now going to oly isnt so appealing if i cant get my slammie on.

[Hasbinbad]

diuretics mixed with diuretics = massive hangover and liver damage
How do diuretics cause liver damage? Just from deficient fluid volume? I wasn't aware of diuretics being a big villain behind liver damage. I believe they are used to help treat several forms of liver disease or dysfunction as well.

If that's the case, drinking water eliminates both of those problems, as hangovers are also related to deficient fluid volume.

I make it a rule to drink an 8oz glass of water every time I consume one or two "drinks" of alcohol, especially when drinking heavily. The extra trips to the head are well worth it the next day.

[Japan]

How do diuretics cause liver damage? Just from deficient fluid volume? I wasn't aware of diuretics being a big villain behind liver damage. I believe they are used to help treat several forms of liver disease or dysfunction as well.

If that's the case, drinking water eliminates both of those problems, as hangovers are also related to deficient fluid volume.


acetaldehyde metabolism/excretion is dependent on osmolar gradients in the blood and nephron which can't be maintained during severe dehydration. Acetaldehyde isn't very stable; cleaning it up puts a heavy enough load on your liver without it floating around in there for a prolonged period of time reacting with shit.

Drinking water does help. So does eating something sugary (lack of glucose is typically the biggest bottleneck in ethanol metabolism). Yes, orange juice will protect you from cirrhosis.

[Itchybottom]

Dehydration IS a factor in hang-over (as Japan is talking about ethanol oxidizing to acetaldehyde), but it's not the entire picture, and also it has little to do with a diuretic effect damaging your liver. Diuretics are good in most cases for liver damage, to treat ascites (accumulation of fluids) that goes along with such a temporary (or more permanent) problem. Liver and kidney load actually triggers an anti-diuretic effect and most of the problem with hang-over (according to the more recent case studies) has been correlated to higher up the chain in the endocrine system involving free radicals and glycine levels. Correlation, isn't all that amusing though and it's hard to argue the point based on that merit. Hope someone soon publishes the cliff notes, because the god damn Wiley-Blackwell journals can be pretty dizzying in rhetoric.

As far as miracle cures, staying hydrated is not going to help very much during or after intoxication; in other words, simply drinking water when you're in hepatic overload is not going to be sufficient, because the large intestine usually secretes water rather than absorbing it. MUCH too rapidly to have any gainful effect on your elevated gamma-glutamyltransferas (GGT) leakage from your hepatocytes (liver cells). Even oral re-hydration therapy is not sufficient after the fact and should be ingested BEFORE you decide to drink.

Juice is also a very BAD idea without dilution, unless of course you want super fun diarrhea along with your hang-over. It's too high osmolarity!

Digressing, if it was just dehydration and glucose levels causing hang-over, an intravenous glucose solution would cure it within the hour -- but even when plasma osmolality is 285 mOsm/l for such a solution, the hang-over persists. When you're suffering from acute ethanol toxicity, it is primarily due to your hepatocytes not being able to produce adequate enzymes (which can be shown by transaminases levels in most cases) to counter-act the net effect. It's not unlike getting too much exercise without adequate fuel, and rather than generating beneficial enzymes to filter the blood stream, it moves onto massive cholestatic liver enzyme production (GGT as mentioned earlier and alkaline phosphatase) which inflames the bile ducts causing a shit storm of bad renal activity -- leading to fun conditions like biliary cirrhosis.

The real problem [in this case] with medicine, is rather than studying the affects that cause and reduce hang-over, medical science seeks to just make you avoid ethanol all together for front line diagnostics. There are quite a few ways of curing a hang-over through blood diagnostic and for example treating it like autoimmune hepatitis with intravenous ciprofloaxin, xifaxan and then paired with an additional diuretic if there is any portal hypertension from chronic abuse - but it's costly, monetarily and in the long term for your body (antibiotic resistance, for when you do finally get sick enough to die.)


TLDR advice:
If someone gets a hang-over from two "Four-Loko" beverages, it's really time to start evaluating your dietary and life choices. That is not a sufficient amount of alcohol by volume to affect a healthy person acutely, even paired with the caffeine content -- and even with chronic alcoholism, I'm going to go ahead and say its Hot Pocket post parents' basement disorder and you're chronically dehydrated to begin with. Stop eating 30+ grams sugar based carbohydrates, 3 grams of sodium per meal and sucking on Mountain Dew all day, you retarded bastards!

[Japan]

+rep

[Cyrano]

I had Four Loko for the first time last weekend before the UT game along with two beers in about a 2 hour period. Didn't have a hangover the next day.

[Ihealyou]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVWWre8tn_U

[Boggwin Bramblefoot]

I just drank about 10 of these and shot some Carfentanil as a chaser. How cool am I. :) Maybe later ill smoke some Dimethyltryptamin and have a few more.

[quido]

Taco Bell is schwag.

[Hasbinbad]

staying hydrated is not going to help very much during or after intoxication; in other words, simply drinking water when you're in hepatic overload is not going to be sufficient
#1 theres a huge difference between hepatic overload and intoxication, and neither one happens with the first drink or so. If you start hydrating at this point, you shouldn't have any issues with a hangover.

because the large intestine usually secretes water rather than absorbing it. MUCH too rapidly to have any gainful effect on your elevated gamma-glutamyltransferas (GGT) leakage from your hepatocytes (liver cells). Even oral re-hydration therapy is not sufficient after the fact and should be ingested BEFORE you decide to drink.
Elevated GGT levels are causative of hangovers now? Stop the press! How do you know such things? Also why would your large intestine begin secreting water after a couple drinks? That doesn't seem to make any sense. If this was true, everyone who ever went to college would have at least one story of how they had to go to the ER because they had water shooting out of their asses, and that they almost died from F&E imbalance..

Juice is also a very BAD idea without dilution, unless of course you want super fun diarrhea along with your hang-over. It's too high osmolarity!
Not gonna argue with this.. I've had too many Mai Tais and not enough diarrhea. I guess I'm lucky? Maybe I have a magic digestive system!!

Digressing, if it was just dehydration and glucose levels causing hang-over, an intravenous glucose solution would cure it within the hour -- but even when plasma osmolality is 285 mOsm/l for such a solution, the hang-over persists.
You're ignoring the fact that the symptoms of a "hangover" are directly tied to fluid loss in the CNS rather than the general system of the body. Your brain gets pickled as the ETOH steals water, leaving salts. Of course fluids (at this late stage) would take some time to work, that system is fairly closed, and requires some time for the body to rehydrate.

When you're suffering from acute ethanol toxicity
Are you using "acute ethanol toxicity" as a euphamism for "drunk" or what?

it is primarily due to your hepatocytes not being able to produce adequate enzymes (which can be shown by transaminases levels in most cases) to counter-act the net effect. It's not unlike getting too much exercise without adequate fuel, and rather than generating beneficial enzymes to filter the blood stream, it moves onto massive cholestatic liver enzyme production (GGT as mentioned earlier and alkaline phosphatase) which inflames the bile ducts causing a shit storm of bad renal activity -- leading to fun conditions like biliary cirrhosis.
Getting drunk = cirrhosis now??
I think your liver will work just fine until you drink a half gallon of whiskey all at once or you spend several years drinking a pint of whiskey a day..
It produces everything it needs to produce, just might take a bit longer. Chronic ETOH abuse is really the bigger danger don't you think? I'm getting a bit of "the sky is falling" from your post man..

The real problem [in this case] with medicine, is rather than studying the affects that cause and reduce hang-over, medical science seeks to just make you avoid ethanol all together for front line diagnostics. There are quite a few ways of curing a hang-over through blood diagnostic and for example treating it like autoimmune hepatitis with intravenous ciprofloaxin, xifaxan and then paired with an additional diuretic if there is any portal hypertension from chronic abuse - but it's costly, monetarily and in the long term for your body (antibiotic resistance, for when you do finally get sick enough to die.)
In all seriousness, please tell me how cipro affects autoimmune hepatitis in a positive manner.. I've heard a LOT about how cipro can CAUSE hepatitis, but nothing about how it cures it. Please explain.

TLDR advice:
If someone gets a hang-over from two "Four-Loko" beverages, it's really time to start evaluating your dietary and life choices. That is not a sufficient amount of alcohol by volume to affect a healthy person acutely, even paired with the caffeine content -- and even with chronic alcoholism, I'm going to go ahead and say its Hot Pocket post parents' basement disorder and you're chronically dehydrated to begin with. Stop eating 30+ grams sugar based carbohydrates, 3 grams of sodium per meal and sucking on Mountain Dew all day, you retarded bastards!
True. True.

[Hasbinbad]

Stop eating 30+ grams sugar based carbohydrates
Is there another kind of carbohydrate?

[xshayla701]

^hasbin is my fave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVWWre8tn_U

you get me

[azeth]

I'm glad you guys like my 4 Loko music vid.

[RapidScotch]

I knew you were black all along. I'm glad you came out finally, we'll still accept you.

[azeth]

I knew you were black all along. I'm glad you came out finally, we'll still accept you.

I don't know how I'm going to tell my father..

[Japan]

I don't know how I'm going to tell my father..

wait, you know him? I thought you were black

[RapidScotch]

LMFAO japan :D I stumbled acrost these, thought they were relevant.

Before 3 four lokos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPH_LNaiGZ8&feature=related

After 3 four lokos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6filFprmbMk&feature=related

[Bruuce]

cute couple

[Spud]

This stuff has been around for decades - it's called irish coffee

[Auvdar]

Irish coffee doesn't come in tall boy form and only cost 2 bucks Spud. And on that note, Four Loko is horrible. I made it 2 sips with the fruit punch (I guess that's what you would call it..) before I dumped it down the sink. And I drink 40oz's of Mickeys, so I'm not exactly a picky drunk either... :o

[Japan]

LMFAO japan :D I stumbled acrost these, thought they were relevant.

Before 3 four lokos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPH_LNaiGZ8&feature=related

After 3 four lokos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6filFprmbMk&feature=related

100% class

[Hasbinbad]

sips
Yeap. There's your problem right there. Drinks like these are meant to be slammed. Drink the whole fucker in one tilt, or your knees will buckle and you'll lose your nerve. The sugar and "taste" will only work to suppress your gag reflex once, so get it all down!

[Spud]

I guess its kind of like drinking a Hurricane. I had one at Pat O'Briens and it was so disgustingly sugary, but then I kind of just adjusted to it and started liking it, then i was insanely hammered.

1 oz vodka
1/4 oz grenadine syrup
1 oz gin
1 oz light rum
1/2 oz Bacardi® 151 rum
1 oz amaretto almond liqueur
1 oz triple sec
grapefruit juice
pineapple juice

[snirke]

Anyone else just read Hasbinbads reply before reading the quote? It's the best way to read the thread. :D

Kiix

[azeth]

I guess its kind of like drinking a Hurricane. I had one at Pat O'Briens and it was so disgustingly sugary, but then I kind of just adjusted to it and started liking it, then i was insanely hammered.

1 oz vodka
1/4 oz grenadine syrup
1 oz gin
1 oz light rum
1/2 oz Bacardi® 151 rum
1 oz amaretto almond liqueur
1 oz triple sec
grapefruit juice
pineapple juice

= scorpion bowl?

[Spud]

ohh yea, Scorpion Bowl thats it. deadly stuff

[Itchybottom]

#1 theres a huge difference between hepatic overload and intoxication, and neither one happens with the first drink or so. If you start hydrating at this point, you shouldn't have any issues with a hangover.

There really isn't. There is a huge difference between hepatic FAILURE and intoxication, but overload is what happens when you've had a bit too much. Hydration, isn't all that causes a hang-over. Systemically, being drunk drops your blood insulin levels. In the blood, it's going to increase cholesterol, fibrinolysis and in turn increase the flow, which is going to backlog your liver and kidneys during the assault. Sodium intake and hydration are a key part of the puzzle, but they certainly aren't "it".

Elevated GGT levels are causative of hangovers now? Stop the press! How do you know such things? Also why would your large intestine begin secreting water after a couple drinks? That doesn't seem to make any sense. If this was true, everyone who ever went to college would have at least one story of how they had to go to the ER because they had water shooting out of their asses, and that they almost died from F&E imbalance..

Elevated GGT and AP levels are present when your liver can no longer process the ethanol. For the average person, that's 3 ounces of 40% abv ethanol per hour when the process starts.

You're ignoring the fact that the symptoms of a "hangover" are directly tied to fluid loss in the CNS rather than the general system of the body. Your brain gets pickled as the ETOH steals water, leaving salts. Of course fluids (at this late stage) would take some time to work, that system is fairly closed, and requires some time for the body to rehydrate.

I didn't ignore the fact that part of a hang-over is in part caused from dehydration. It certainly doesn't involve the central nervous system more than toxic filtration of your liver, and kidneys. As the alcohol levels in your blood elevates, your metabolic excretion slows down. Once you reach a certain point of with alcohol dehydrogenases - your acetaldehyde levels (via oxidization and free radicals) peak and your liver is no longer efficient. The central nervous system consists of your brain and spine -- and the only affect here in regards to it after too much to drink would be encephalitis.


Are you using "acute ethanol toxicity" as a euphamism for "drunk" or what?


Epidemiology term. I tried to dumb down my post so the layperson could understand most of it. It's a bit further than intoxicated, which is usually when you have a hang-over.

Getting drunk = cirrhosis now??

Hyper-vascular nodules form on the liver - as shown by ultrasound and dissection of rats when consuming over 6g/kg volume (with 10g/kg being the LD50.)


I think your liver will work just fine until you drink a half gallon of whiskey all at once or you spend several years drinking a pint of whiskey a day..
It produces everything it needs to produce, just might take a bit longer. Chronic ETOH abuse is really the bigger danger don't you think? I'm getting a bit of "the sky is falling" from your post man..

Chronic use is clearly more of a danger, but shocks to the liver with high consumption, are just as taxing due to cell recovery rate. The liver is a robust organ, but not quite as robust as the brain; once there is enough cumulative damage, it cannot regenerate itself due to blood flow issues. If someone were to consume a half gallon of whiskey, it would be largely up to their body weight and resting metabolic rate how it affected them. If you did this frequently, you would end up with not only chronic gastritis from the tissue irritating in your digestive tract, but you would also be lowering liver, kidney and pancreatic function. I was actually trying to insinuate higher volume than a half gallon though. I really meant binge drinking, which should be on topic since we are talking about idiots and Four-Loko here.

In all seriousness, please tell me how cipro affects autoimmune hepatitis in a positive manner.. I've heard a LOT about how cipro can CAUSE hepatitis, but nothing about how it cures it. Please explain.

It's rare for cipro to actually induce cholestatic hepatitis -- but it has happened before and to the general populace, it's not a problem.

Unfortunately when it comes to pharmaceuticals (just like product reviews) the negative effects often get more attention the longer the drug is used.

Flouroquinolones help clean the blood, when the liver is under stress and it inhibits cell division (gyrase). It's also super affective at being an RNA antiviral (which is what hepatitis is) In a regimen treating hepatitis, it is often used to treat the possibility of secondary infections in the body. Most studies indicate it's slope of effectiveness to drop after cirrhosis and hepatocellular carcinoma are present - but doctors of internal medicine still prescribe it even then, just in case. When it comes to the liver there is always the chance of bacterial peritonitis or hepatic encephalopathy and it's been shown to reduce that chance.

In the case of using it as part of the regimen to get rid of drunkenness, it's activity will help you by method of retarding topoisomerase (type II primarily, as it's practically a sharp shooter) enzyme production at the ligation step of the cell cycle. It's unknown why, but as a side-effect that somehow also decreases glucose repression rate which is one of the symptoms being drunk is causing.

I really hope I didn't get trolled here, and you just wanted to actually learn something, Hasbinbad.

[Cyrano]

This is the greatest EQ board argument ever.

[Muchew]

Just had my first four loco... Fruit Punch -- Taste like cough syrup.

If you want a good upper, just mix orange rockstar energy drink, with orange juice, sprite, and vodka.

[Hasbinbad]

The central nervous system consists of your brain and spine -- and the only affect here in regards to it after too much to drink would be encephalitis.
I'm sorry, maybe I woke up and am now in a new dimension in which Alcohol isn't described as a CNS depressant?

You seem to know so many details, yet your grasp of the the bigger picture seems somewhat less than complete.

[Abacab niggah]

Just had my first four loco... Fruit Punch -- Taste like cough syrup.

If you want a good upper, just mix orange rockstar energy drink, with orange juice, sprite, and vodka.

If you want a good upper just do meth, these drinks aren't uppers they just have added stimulants so you end up drinking more since you're momentarily lessening the effect of a depressant ala cheap speedballin'

[Itchybottom]

I'm sorry, maybe I woke up and am now in a new dimension in which Alcohol isn't described as a CNS depressant?

Alcohol is without a doubt a depressant, no one is arguing the validity of that observation.

Most cells (damaged or not) have an effect on the central nervous system. I was refuting the non-sense that it had something to do with fluid loss in it specifically --

You're ignoring the fact that the symptoms of a "hangover" are directly tied to fluid loss in the CNS rather than the general system of the body.

There is far more depression being caused in your endocrine system, than your central nervous system; unfortunately in the case of most sciences (psychology, comes to mind as a prime example) labels are often in need of review for years before they've been updated. I don't think it's the case that alcohol needs reclassification, but it's effects need to be more widely published and not just available to those of us forking money over for peer reviewed articles. I tried to give you a heuristic evaluation of the biological reaction of ethanol in the body, and ultimately the "real" cause of hang-over and you're replying with word play. I do not appreciate being led by uncritical acceptance of invalid understanding. The current theory in the field, differs greatly (and thereby falsifies) the original postulation that the public layman likes to harp about hang-overs, the newer evidence which has been published by medical journals provided by Acta Neurologica Scandinavica (published by Wiley-Blackwell, as I mentioned in my first post), The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism and similarly (though not as in depth) in part the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs greatly differs from our understanding of the past. What I'm basically saying is, a decade ago I would have been agreeing with you (aside from the obvious problem with fluid in the nervous system being depleted) -- now, not so much.

I'd like to re-iterate, medical science does not spend much time on alcoholism, other than it's prevention. The timeline for study and break-through on the subject is longer than it should be.

A similar discovery in another field (toxicology) as an example, is the monitor lizard. For the longest time, we thought the bite of the lizard, due to the amount of bacteria in it's mouth is what slowly disabled it's prey. As it turns out, it actually has venom sacks. How was this missed? It is absurd to think bacteria would work that way, which in turn lead Dr. Brian Grieg Fry (PhD, not MD) to take a closer look. It's been causing a big storm in peer-reviewed journals for the last few years, and PhD candidates all over the place are examining lizard species of all walks (last I checked, there were about 1,700 of them with venom, and that was 2009) to break ground with. The amount of those creatures [monitor lizards] that have been dissected over the years, and no one noticed a venom sack pretty much describes my feeling on public opinion turning into fact in sciences and often makes me roll my eyes on Internet forum posts without citation, or full grasp of the concept at hand.

Ideas != hypothesis or theory, yet somehow they still hold just as much water in some circles.


You seem to know so many details, yet your grasp of the the bigger picture seems somewhat less than complete.

So you're insinuating that I am making a compositional fallacy, or ignoring the common cause? Because in both cases, just no. This conversation seems to have de-evolved into a semantics debate (language barrier, terminology) rather than anything constructive. I didn't challenge your idea of "pickling" the brain, because of this. Did you mean cerebral edema or "wet brain" associated with alcoholism? I didn't see how the two processes (pickling and edema) could relate, but I did see mention of the term used for alcohol dementia in non-medical texts which descriptors lead me to edema. That's beyond the scope of hang-over and in most cases end-stage cirrhosis - academically that dives pretty deep down the hole into glial cell membranes and other cytolytic activity.

There's a gastroenterologist locally to me by the name of Dr. Lin Huang MD, he's often referred to as #2 in this field per peer recommendation and I've had conversations with him in length on the subject. What fascinates me the most about his work, is that he actually found when it comes to glycine production and liver function (primarily in the scope of cirrhosis prevention, but would also apply to causation of hang-overs) that you could use bacteriophage activated escherichia coli to boost glycine levels in the body. Not dissimilar to treating hepatitis C by infecting the person with A (mortality rate is 40%, which means 60% chance get better according to the German study) That [glycine boost] would certainly insulate you from some of the effects of hang-over, especially if it was treated with the proper protocol to lessen the a-typical symptoms associated with viral stage infection (of potent e.coli). Of course, this wouldn't relate to compound infections (hepatitis, cirrhosis, diabetes, and/or other immunologic-suppression) or late stage cases, but it could give people a fighting chance when caught early. Then again, last I checked people aren't to keen on using tape worm for dieting either.... So it might not be so great presenting such a treatment to your patient. There are also some specific toxins being studied that alter the endocrine and nervous system directly, that could be applied to future methods of therapy (and abuse by college kids.)

If people think things like Four Loko are bad now (clearly if it's being banned), wait until a "supplement" from some random herbal remedy company comes on the market that enables you to drink more than you should. It's already working well enough (sales volume anyhow) with a placebo from Merck -- in the case of South America and Hepabionta. I'm shooting myself the moment a "low toxicity" gin or scotch come out though.

[Hasbinbad]

stuff
Yeah I know you know how to say a lot of stuff, and you're obviously very educated.

However, alcohol still crosses the blood/brain barrier with ease, and alcohol molecules still harvest water from a mixture. Or did I sleep through that day in physiology? Your body will also harvest water from your CSF if you become dehydrated enough, right? When you decrease the solution, solutes get left behind, creating a more briny environment, which in turn negatively affects your brain tissues. Not to mention the ~80/10/10 balance of the brain, and the need for CSF to lubricate nuerological structures..

If this is not correct, please tell me in lay terms how it really works, because many people with letters after their names have told me that this IS how it works, and I have been operating "as if."

[Aadill]

These things aren't even remotely appealing.

I'll take a good beer, a bottle of gin, or a bottle of scotch any day.

Stop ruining my alcohol with disgusting concoctions.

[Itchybottom]

However, alcohol still crosses the blood/brain barrier with ease, and alcohol molecules still harvest water from a mixture. Or did I sleep through that day in physiology?

The trauma we're talking about is actually classified by blood brain barrier integrity. Both cerebral and hydrostatic pressure are correlated to that notion. Yes, it [alcohol] still crosses the blood brain barrier. Hydrolysis and hydroxyl go hand in hand. I'm not sure what mixture you are referring to. Plasma? CSF as stated? Either way -- no, I don't think you slept through your physiology class.

Your body will also harvest water from your CSF if you become dehydrated enough, right?

I believe what you're talking about is hyperosmolar hypernatraemia? I'm not sure how to explain it in lay persons terms, but it functionally causes acidosis (increased acidity in the blood) by method of free water depletion (apace with in sodium concentration elevation.) That eventually leads to paralysis in potential (the medical term is hemiplegia), but you'd have to be SEVERELY dehydrated for this to happen. Out-side of scope, again. Eric Kandel would be the leading research scientist to read to understand the pH relation and turn-over volume of cerebral spinal fluid and it's influence on the body in cases like this. In a healthy person, with slight shock to your system stemming from alcohol dehydration, it's just going to retard the delayed diffusional transcapillary transport (microcirculatory system) causing spikes in insulin. Even that is hotly debated at the moment -- since capillary endothelium (the thin cellular layer in blood vessels) simply doesn't show the evidence of being affected like that under scrutiny in real world conditions. This is actually bordering on the edge of my neurophysiology knowledge and I'd have to brush up on the subject [human brain capillary endothelium] to elaborate further. My apologies.

When you decrease the solution, solutes get left behind, creating a more briny environment, which in turn negatively affects your brain tissues.

What solution? Serum CSF? If polar solutes (like alcohol) are left behind, the pH is altered (of the serum) and you begin to deal with things like urea being dispensed by the liver (the cycle also involves the kidneys, but not as much) and leading to right back to things like edema and hypertension in the case of alcoholism. In a nutshell -- yes, it's going to negatively affect brain tissue but not by the transport you're elaborating in the short term.

A lumber puncture would cause what you're talking about, but the only thing that has to do with hydration levels is the amount [of CSF] you can reproduce after loss. The brain in this case would be signalling that your CSF is dangerous low by giving you a nasty headache -- which is often a nice regurgitated falsehood that goes along with hang-over causes. I think I see where you're coming from now! I know the origin of that chest nut too -- Dr. Dan Small (a Canadian neurophysiology research scientist) He was a pretty good research scientist in the field, but like Michio Kaku in physics, he often made unsubstantiated claims based on idea rather than supported evidence.

Not to mention the ~80/10/10 balance of the brain, and the need for CSF to lubricate nuerological structures..

I presume you are referring to inter-cranial contents? Yeah, wouldn't want the brain to rattle around in there, now would we? I'm impressed you even know about that 2005 publication as a lay-person. Principles of Neurosurgery is a nice text and dismissed a lot of archaic notions in the field (Dr Small actually withdrew a lot of claims, after becoming a pharmaceutical company manager during the publication of this.) If you are further interested in CSF, a generalized document which most neurology students have to cover is Cerebrospinal Fluid in Disease of the Nervous System -- it's a little dated, but it will give you a general outlook of the constituents that make up the muck and how it functions and hopefully nothing in it has really been rebutted (It was published in the 80s) It's not going to cover the ventricular system's relation but it does cover the chemistry associated which a high school student could understand (which you're clearly beyond.)

The three letters after my name used to get me into quite a bit of trouble at first. Expert is a dangerous word, as is becoming comfortable jumping from A to C in scientific method (not validating experimental data and relying on common knowledge) like so many people do after a while. It's so very comfortable... but it shits all over you eventually by letting your peers down when they use erroneous claims you supported.

These things aren't even remotely appealing.

I'll take a good beer, a bottle of gin, or a bottle of scotch any day.

Stop ruining my alcohol with disgusting concoctions.

Fuckin' A right! Throw Ouzo, absinthe and a good brandy into that list and we're talking about truly exceptional enjoyment of the finer things in life. I actually recently acquired a taste for bourbon, particularly Buffalo Trace. I feel almost dirty drinking a non-scotch, but not as dirty as these Four Loko bastards should feel.

[Aadill]

Oh I have me some Ouzo, too.. forgot about that. Sad, as it's sitting on my desk.. how can I not notice these things? Probably because there are other bottles on my desk as well.

Unf.

[Sizzle]

Reading some of this stuff makes my head spin. I'm thinking you take everything your writing and turn it into a book "how to argue with a Hasbin"

[Hasbinbad]

stuff
I'll reply later, i gotta go take my test now. Pedi neuro disorders and such ;)
Trying to get some letters after MY name (even if they aren't including a D.), yaddida!!

[xshayla701]

blood/brain barrier...CSF... nuerological structures..

WTB one of you guys to take my a&p final....

[Cyrano]

Who puts M.S. after their name? LMAO My roommate is confident I'll have to call him Master Taylor once he's done.