Flowing Thought not working?

[Troubled]

Searched for a thread like this and couldn't find one.

Using White Dragonscale Boots http://wiki.project1999.com/White_Dragonscale_Boots appears to have no effect on mana regen, while they are supposed to have the FT2 effect. Not sure if there's just something wrong with the item or if Flowing Thought is not working period.

Could post a video showing my mana ticking up with the boots on and without if devs request. I appear to be getting 1 mana per tick while standing up and 21 sitting whether the boots are on or off.

[Erati]

I have found the 'mana tick' graphical displays very buggy

I have been taking my boots off and on as well observing the differences and I have noticed exactly as you claim however there are times when it seems those ticks are 'delayed' and displaying things that arnt quite there, for example

I have seen the boots properly add the +2 mana regen many many times to my mana ticks, I just dont see the consistency with that, which is what you are noticing. They def work tho, there is extra mana being added to my ticks, its just the display does not always properly catch up to the ticks etc


Playing a caster on this server for a while you should have experienced this when you are medding from empty for 1 spell - you are starting from 0 and medding to the EXACT amount to cast.....you will often notice that when your mana display says you have the amount to cast, it wont work and you actually have 'slightly' less and be forced to continue to med or you try to cast the spell and some dispalyed mana 'poofs'

I believe this is bc the displayed mana amounts ( the ticks and the total ) are slightly off from what your character actually has to use

TLDR: the boots work, the UI displaying mana tick/total is kinda buggy and not very accurate

It would be nice in general if a dev would comment on the mana tick display tho I am not sure that is something that can be fixed, UI client side issues have been very difficult to change from my knowledge of P99 fixes

[Erati]

also a truer way to testing this as a player without Dev access ( if these boots are giving FT2 vs 1 ) is to get a FT item and rotate with that

I would love to do a test like that but do not have access to any FT1 items to simply see the difference in my mana ticks

all last night tho I tested different things to observe the ticks and did notice the best time I would get an 'accurate' tick is the initial one after removing boots completely, letting mana tick a couple times, then putting boots on

I had a great chance of getting the proper +2 displayed to my tick then and if it displays once, I am fairly certain its there whole time - just doesnt always reflect that in your UI display

[Troubled]

also a truer way to testing this as a player without Dev access ( if these boots are giving FT2 vs 1 ) is to get a FT item and rotate with that

I would love to do a test like that but do not have access to any FT1 items to simply see the difference in my mana ticks

all last night tho I tested different things to observe the ticks and did notice the best time I would get an 'accurate' tick is the initial one after removing boots completely, letting mana tick a couple times, then putting boots on

I had a great chance of getting the proper +2 displayed to my tick then and if it displays once, I am fairly certain its there whole time - just doesnt always reflect that in your UI display

Will test the difference between FT2 and FT1 later this week.

The only thing I'm seeing is 1 mana per tick standing. It subtracts 2 and adds 3 every tick with boots on, and just adds 1 with boots off. Same difference. I don't think it's working. 21 while sitting consistently.

Looking for more testimonials! Thanks for the input Eratani. ;)

[Coffee]

Because of the graphical bug where mana increases and subtracts and sometimes goes in between tics, I think a dev is the only one who can truly verify if working as intended

[Ele]

Just looking at the spdat files, Flowing Thought wasn't even in there until March 2001.

Could possibly be disabled or set to zero until that time.

[Coffee]

That back end information would be vital to bug detection and reporting - is it flagged as 0 or +2?

[Snackies]

Why don't you let your character go thirsty/no clarity and see how mana regen works with FT1/2?

[Erati]

good idea Snacks- will do this tonight

its def working tho- its not consistently displayed but mana tick differences do occur when u have them equipped vs not

I noticed this clearly on my cleric who doesnt have oddles of self buff mana regen like my druid

[Troubled]

Why don't you let your character go thirsty/no clarity and see how mana regen works with FT1/2?

0 mana regen while thirsty with FT2 boots on.

[Erati]

0 mana regen while thirsty with FT2 boots on.

ill perform same test- Dev looking at spell file has the real answer here

does anyone kno if FT is suppose to work if u have zero mana regen bc ur out of drink?

aka does it add 2 to MANA REGENERATION such that if mana regen is 0 bc no drink the +2 doesnt exist bc u arnt regening mana for it to then apply the effect. OR does it create "2 mana regen naturally occuring always w/o drink"

i have no idea - someone might

[Erati]

Ok did this test tonight with no water / thirsty

like Trouble noticed - I saw no difference in my mana ticks, always 1

HOWEVER

When I did what I mentioned earlier ( let my mana tick with boots unequipped, then equip them and watch a tick ) I noticed several '3' mana ticks which is correct and would be impossible if FT was set to 0.

So they work - its just that our mana tick display is not accurate

[Troubled]

Ok did this test tonight with no water / thirsty

like Trouble noticed - I saw no difference in my mana ticks, always 1

HOWEVER

When I did what I mentioned earlier ( let my mana tick with boots unequipped, then equip them and watch a tick ) I noticed several '3' mana ticks which is correct and would be impossible if FT was set to 0.

So they work - its just that our mana tick display is not accurate

Yea you see the 3 mana ticks but only after it subtracts 2.

[Troubled]

Ok did this test tonight with no water / thirsty

like Trouble noticed - I saw no difference in my mana ticks, always 1

HOWEVER

When I did what I mentioned earlier ( let my mana tick with boots unequipped, then equip them and watch a tick ) I noticed several '3' mana ticks which is correct and would be impossible if FT was set to 0.

So they work - its just that our mana tick display is not accurate

Yea you see the 3 mana ticks but only after it subtracts 2. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say the display isn't accurate. It's not like I'm finding unused mana at the end of my bar that wasn't displayed. Still getting 1 per tick.

[Samoht]

with the UI lag, you've got to actually try to cast a spell. unequip boots, get thirsty, blow all your mana, then find a low mana cost spell and wait amount of time that it would take to regen the mana. when you cast, blue bar should snap back up, and you'll be able to cast.

[Erati]

last thing need to do is see if this is actually working when thirsty like Samoht describes

I believe FT is suppose to be innate mana regen whether your character is regening mana or not....so having water or not should not change how FT works

Would love some confirmation tho - also curious if Trouble tested FT1 items

FT1+FT2 should not be stacking and it should be the highest FT on your character that actually gets utilized

[Troubled]

last thing need to do is see if this is actually working when thirsty like Samoht describes

I believe FT is suppose to be innate mana regen whether your character is regening mana or not....so having water or not should not change how FT works

Would love some confirmation tho - also curious if Trouble tested FT1 items

FT1+FT2 should not be stacking and it should be the highest FT on your character that actually gets utilized

Just tested FT1 - not working.


FT1 + FT2 = Showing 4 mana per tick(standing) briefly before dropping down to the 1 mana standing or 21 mana sitting. I think when they are working they will stack, if that tick display is any indication.

[Ele]

Just tested FT1 - not working.


FT1 + FT2 = Showing 4 mana per tick briefly before dropping down to the 1 mana standing or 21 mana sitting. I think when they are working they will stack, if that tick display is any indication.

Could be an aberration of what the client expects (stacking) versus what the server is really calculating.

[Samoht]

Just tested FT1 - not working.


FT1 + FT2 = Showing 4 mana per tick(standing) briefly before dropping down to the 1 mana standing or 21 mana sitting. I think when they are working they will stack, if that tick display is any indication.

It might not show mana, but can you cast? The UI only shows the expected client side values (using post Luclin calculations) and not the actual server side values. I usually have the opposite problem where I'm waiting for enough mana to cast a spell, see the value, stand to cast, and the mana disappears once I try to cast. The UI calc/tick is normally off a little bit compared to the server.

[Troubled]

bump

[thieros]

bump!

[Dacuk]

any dev input here?

[Symbioticforks]

Crown of Narandi (FT2) isn't doing anything!

Need this to be addressed - bump

UI shows mana going up by 3 then jumping down to 1 every tick. The normal amount regenerated by any character without flowing thought.

My character fails to net the additional 2 mana.

[Erati]

it works - just doesnt accurately display your ticks bc of client / server update issues

[Symbioticforks]

alright still needs to be fixed though.

[Xaanka]

i'm like 99% sure flowing thought I and II should not be in the game yet with the current timeline

[Troubled]

it works - just doesnt accurately display your ticks bc of client / server update issues

prof?

[SamwiseRed]

It works

[Troubled]

It works

Can't take the word of someone who doesn't play or have FT. Looking for someone to show their work.

[Erati]

So I was standing there thirsty without drink on my druid camping the necromancer in Lesser Faydark for many hours.

I have both a FT2 and FT1 item equipped yet I was not regening mana. My blue bar percentage remained the same and my inventory UI did show mana ticking...but each tick was a 'phantom tick' as in I would see mana tick up then back down.

The amount of the phantom tick was peculiar - I was receiving +3 ( Boots +2, Mask +1 ). I unequipped my boots and the phantom tick was only +1. I kept my boots on and unequipped my mask and the phantom tick was +2. I unequipped both my FT items my mana was motionless, no phantom tick, no movement.

So FT doesnt seem to be working when you are out of drink ( is it suppose to? ) but with drink something 'is' happening visually its just questionable if the server actually accepts what our clients are trying to send.

[Man0warr]

Sounds double bugged then. FT shouldn't ever stack on this server, should just be the highest.

[Raev]

The client will assume FT stacks; not much the devs can do about this.

[Erati]

Really just need a developer who can look at the code see whats even there.

I am not sure what I posted means its truely stacking but the client is registering a difference in each FT item. I did not test with 2 FT 1 items for example tho to see what the ticks would be like in that regard.

edit: I basically figured what Raev said and I suspected all along - our client is not displaying this properly at all and the fact it shows FT stacking is simply bc these clients have it built in to show when those items are equipped. However, the real question is and always been whether the server then gets that update - I dont think it does as evidenced by the phantom ticks and not actually regening any mana without drink/thirsty. The client tries to allow FT3 to tick but the server rejects it - so maybe FT is not even working or turned on?

[Man0warr]

Yeah sounds like FT isn't working at all.

[Colgate]

have the same issue with aura of battle + fungal regrowth from fungi tunic and shroud of longevity

seeing phantom ticks for how much i'm supposed to be regenerating and then the bonuses from my aura of battle effects fall off with the real server tick

[Troubled]

Tested again without water or any other mana regen, starting at 90 mana. Waited about 5 minutes which should have given me an extra 100 mana with FT2, or 150 mana as the phantom ticks suggest. Still could not cast heroism, a 150 mana spell.



have the same issue with aura of battle + fungal regrowth from fungi tunic and shroud of longevity

seeing phantom ticks for how much i'm supposed to be regenerating and then the bonuses from my aura of battle effects fall off with the real server tick

Sounds like this goes hand in hand with the FT issue.

[Erati]

yep - we tested it good this time Trouble

need devs to look at code n say if its even activated

[Moosetoe]

So, I have a FT1 mask, FT1 shield, and FT2 boots (presumed FT3 total, or at least FT2). I did some testing after a rez, and realized I am still getting the 21 mana/tick as always. Using a start/stop timer accurate to the hundredths, I rotated in and out with just the mask, just the shield, just the boots, just the mask and boots, etc for many minutes at a time, and only noticed a net-gain of 21 mana. Convinced it was not working properly, I came to the forums and searched a simple "flowing thought" and immediately arrived at this thread. I read every word of every post, and experienced the exact same things, including the +21 tick, -3, +21 tick, -3, +21 tick, etc... the "phantom tick," as described. The level 5 cleric spell "Furor" costs only 20 mana, and was able to disprove that I had any more mana than the client shows. I would post a video if requested, but it's not hard to do simple math to determine that FT simply doesn't work.

This is broken. What incentive is there to go after FT items at all?

[LegitInfo]

The client will assume FT stacks; not much the devs can do about this.

If trying to patch and make FT not stack is fucking everything up than just let FT stack.

Just looking at the spdat files, Flowing Thought wasn't even in there until March 2001.

Could possibly be disabled or set to zero until that time.

Jeeze enough with the nerfs ELE! damn you.
this is the blade of carnage proc remover.
and 100+ others.
but still no plat drop on ground. or hand items to npc and when new player killed that fire beetle they got to loot surprise. or countless other not classic stuff , cough variance.
Not only is your nerf to have flowing thought not stack cause its "classic" you've in turned disabled FT and the cherry on top fucked up fungi stacking with stuff like aura of battle (deff was possible in classic) Vindi BP and Belt of dwarf slaying than even form of the great bear (+3 regen) nothing is stacking and makes a lot of items pointless.
so cool.

If FT is not working than remove it from the items or let it stack so it fixes,

have the same issue with aura of battle + fungal regrowth from fungi tunic and shroud of longevity

seeing phantom ticks for how much i'm supposed to be regenerating and then the bonuses from my aura of battle effects fall off with the real server tick

so not just FT items but yes confirmed fungi and aura of battle or fungi and regen spells even like form of great bear , are not working.

Please look into and let us know . Thanks .
Remove it all or stack it up.

[Erati]

^^^

[Haynar]

The guide I was given for classic FT was this.

FT of different #'s stack. Same do not.

So if you have 5 different FT1 items, you net 1.

FT1 + FT2 = 3
FT2 + FT3 = 5
FT1 + FT1 + FT2 + FT2 = 3 (not 6)

If you have no drink and are thirsty, you don't regen mana.

H

[Daldaen]

I believe the consensus was FT takes the highest and it should work without drink.

Ele has a good post on it somewhere, I'd have to look.

If you could stack FT though, that would make gearing a caster a tad more exciting during Velious.

[Man0warr]

It's not supposed to stack initially, just the highest value. At some point it switched to different FT stacking, then any FT stacking up to 15 total - then FT was removed entirely and just shown as +# Mana Regeration on gear.

FT doesn't seem to be working at all at the moment though.

[Erati]

The guide I was given for classic FT was this.

FT of different #'s stack. Same do not.

So if you have 5 different FT1 items, you net 1.

FT1 + FT2 = 3
FT2 + FT3 = 5
FT1 + FT1 + FT2 + FT2 = 3 (not 6)

If you have no drink and are thirsty, you don't regen mana.

H

this is how it worked except you DID regen mana without drink, that was the point: constant ticking or 'flowing' mana no matter you sitting standing or no drink.

Anyone know when it was changed to stack timeline wise? Was there a patch note?

on our server right now it will be very rare for people to achieve up to FT3 let alone FT6 ( Tunare earring, Tormax boots, any FT1 item )so I think if it would be possible it should be made to stack with the different versions as that was intended with this mechanic

the problem was when it was implemented there were not many instances of 'different' types of flowing thought so the stacking was added as more items came into the game - we have several items that 'could' stack here so it should be implemented for the vision of the mechanic as that would give it the longest life of the server and provide a good balance for caster gear milestones to try to reach

[Treats]

Flowing Thought DOES NOT stack no matter what #

This is hardcoded in the Trilogy client

[Turp]

Damn That doesn't sound right!

Please fix.

if FT is not working. and that Fungi + Aura of battle do not stack! that is classic stuff that needs fixed. why no response on this yet. This very crucial.

If the flowing thoughts that are different number could stack that would be awesome and work as Verant wanted but just had so much work didn't fix till end of 2001.

Fungi / aura / etc not stacking ? can we get a fix on these please if this is the case as many have tested and say yes.

Thanks for the Great Work and keep us updated Dev is possible

[Symbioticforks]

bump

[-Catherin-]

The guide I was given for classic FT was this.

FT of different #'s stack. Same do not.



Flowing Thought went through several changes. That form you posted is a later incarnation.

Flowing Thought began as the highest flowing thought only taking effect. It was then changed so that different types of flowing thought would stack but not multiples of the same type. It was then changed so that all types of flowing thought would stack but you could only achieve a total flowing thought of 15.

The only incarnation of this we should see in velious is the first one. I'm not good at Classic quest but im sure someone like Dald can prove it

[Uuruk]

I just installed my Autofire and voice changing program and my FT is still not working.

Any help?

[-Catherin-]

^The stalk is strong with this one^


Make an RnF about me if you are still butthurt two years later. Its been a long time since I've had my own thread.

[Turp]

hope gets looked into. coding some patch to make it not stack so its classic but yet broke it from stacking at all is bad. rather have them stack than to not have them at all.
Fungi+aura of battle was classic as fuck.

[Colgate]

i think the base issue here is that flowing thought isn't working whatsoever and aura of battle hp regen isn't stacking with any higher worn regeneration effects

[Dacuk]

.... please make this work

[qualia]

Flowing Thought Does. Not. Work.

[Erati]

bump - would love to hear if this is even coded to be working

[Haynar]

Fixed, pending update.

H

[Erati]

Fixed, pending update.

H

I love you.

Any clues about how it functions for those of us who have thoughts always flowing? :)

[SantagarBrax]

Alright, with the robe of inspiration +1 FT, it works while sitting only.

While standing with robe on, i'm receiving +10 mana regen, then phantom tick -1 to 9 total.

While standing/fd with robe off, i receive +9 mana per tick, no phantom tick.

So it's not working while standing/fd'd no matter what, but when sitting there is no phantom tick down and is giving me +1 to mana regen. Fyi

[Erati]

Alright, with the robe of inspiration +1 FT, it works while sitting only.

While standing with robe on, i'm receiving +10 mana regen, then phantom tick -1 to 9 total.

While standing/fd with robe off, i receive +9 mana per tick, no phantom tick.

So it's not working while standing/fd'd no matter what, but when sitting there is no phantom tick down and is giving me +1 to mana regen. Fyi

Dev already posted " fixed pending update"

we have to wait for the update to see whether its still broken as you described