Wanting to go wizard.

[Bweetza]

On live, I played a Wizard. They oscillated between levels of uselessness most of the time. My server was not nearly as min maxed as Project1999. I think my raiding guild had a human warrior as the main tank. Few questions for modern wizards:

1) Race and stat allocation. I ran a Dark Elf Wizard, and would like to again. Am I handicapping myself? Stat allocation recommendations vary from 25 int, 5 sta or 5 str, to some claiming you go all sta. Is there any consensus? Solusek Ro seems like the go to Deity. No real downside other than roleplay and there is a ring only they can use.

2) Are wizards at all useful? Nobody seems to want to group with them (unless it's PBAOE), but I will be soloing most of the time, so that doesn't bother me. Are they useful in raids?

3) Are there any irreversible pitfalls in character construction/skill allocation that I am missing?

[Swish]

Dark elf wizards are the way to go, granted mine is on red but still an excellent choice for hide and being able to afk with an "invis" that sticks til you come back (/con a non-indifferent target to make sure you hid correctly etc).

Going Sol Ro might cause a bit of a hiccup at the Halas part of the epic quest (going from my live experience so might not be true here) but it's probably not a big deal...certainly a wizard's deity :D

Grouping can be an issue but get yourself in a leveling guild that likes to group together, or put groups together if you have the motivation :)

Very useful in raids.

5 in STR is a good idea. I don't think wizards get much of a HP bonus for allocating in stamina so I'd go 25 int... totally subjective though, some might say some points in agility might be a good thing. Weight reduction bags are your friend of course :)

[Bweetza]

Going Sol Ro might cause a bit of a hiccup at the Halas part of the epic quest (going from my live experience so might not be true here) but it's probably not a big deal...certainly a wizard's deity :DHadn't considered that. I was agnostic on Live when I did it. But then, that's fixable, and epic is a long way away.
5 in STR is a good idea. I don't think wizards get much of a HP bonus for allocating in stamina so I'd go 25 int... totally subjective though, some might say some points in agility might be a good thing. Weight reduction bags are your friend of course :)This is the kind of information I need. I keep leveling characters, regretting my stat allocation, and abandoning them. Thank you so much for the input.

[Tuljin]

Roll 25 STA and 5 STR or INT. You will hit the hardcap very easily if you roll 25 INT and you'll regret it. I would rather take 60 HP at level 60 than 150 mana (that 150 mana is if you don't break the 255 hardcap, which you likely will one day) There are countless Wizards on this server that rolled 25 INT and are cranked over the hardcap and now those stat points are worth absolutely nothing.

Hide is nowhere near as great as it used to be since the nerf so Dark Elf isn't the end all be all race.

Don't roll AGI at all even on Erudite

[Bweetza]

Thank you for the input.

This is the kind of disparate advice I was worried about.

[Tuljin]

Its very important to understand hardcap/softcap before you roll. Over the 200 INT softcap (or WIS) you get almost half of the mana per point as you do when under 200. Over the 255 hardcap you get nothing. Ideally you have as few INT points over the 200 softcap as possible.

Once you are over 200 you want to swap for pure HP or mana items, resist gear, etc. Some people have gear so uber they can't help but go over the 200 softcap.

Erudite has the highest base of the two main stats - INT and STA. Really all races offer decent Wiz stats and Dark Elf stats are really quite good. The high INT and STA of the Erudite offers some options when it comes to hitting the softcap, and also the racial 5 save magic is nice. Human with 15 STA and 15 INT isn't a horrible roll at all, either. Its all about knowing the deal with point allocation and softcap.

[Bweetza]

So what would you do if you wanted the optimal race, stat, deity allocation?

[Tuljin]

I would go Erudite with 25 STA and 5 INT or STR. If you want min/Max go Agnostic but really Sol Ro is tight for RP purposes. If you're talking min/max Eru has highest stats of the stats you need on an INT caster. They also have an edge with the +5 racial save magic.

Dark Elf Hide is good but you have to screw around with it until you actually con indifferent which kind of sucks. You don't need Hide to AFK there's just a ton of hot air and misinformation out there. If you are actually somewhere dangerous the last thing you're going to want to do is AFK, hidden or not.

Gnome also has high STA but lower INT. Gnomevision is nice as well. You can be an Bertoxx Gnome wiz which is cool. You can't be a Paineel Eru wiz and that is a little strange, you can even be a Paineel Eru Cleric. Tinkering is not bad either.

Objectively speaking High Elf has the worst stats.

Humans have nice balanced stats. The high STR is nice and if you roll 15 STA and 15 INT you end up with 100 base STA and 100 base INT when combined with the other Human stats you end up with a very statty toon.

That's my 2CP. I stopped listening to people that say you don't need HP on an INT caster a very long time ago.

[Bweetza]

Why is agnostic the best min/max deity choice? What is the downside to picking Sol Ro?

Again, thank you for the input. It's very helpful.

[Tuljin]

Agnostic is best min/max deity choice because it minimizes the chance of NPCs being hostile based on your deity, it will only be based on race. Many Enchanters go agnostic so they can cast their Illusions and enter cities without the chance of being attacked based on deity.

[Castcalm]

Don't agonize too much over the stat choices. Gear is flexible enough to offer you lots of options.

For example, let's say that you pick the Dark elf and go 25 int/str. Yes, you will hit the int cap more easily. However, that means you can totally drop certain slots from having gear with any int on them at all and instead pick up more hp/mana items.

Rings: Velium fire wedding rings, 6ac/65 hp
Neck: Velium black sapphire neck, 65/hp/65mana
Ears: Gold black sapphire earrings, 25hp/35mana

And so on, and so on. The value for wizard STA points at 60 is so low that I'd bet you can pick up more HP from raw HP items than you can from dumping 25 STA into your character creation.

[Lojik]

I don't necessarily agree with allocating stats just based on whether you can hit the hard cap with sick gear, especially if it's your first toon. Let's say you roll 25 sta instead of 25 int, for the vast majority of your characters life you'll have a sizably smaller mana pool for negligible hp gains. Hell most wizards won't even hit the hard cap even with 25 int. The only time I'd go 25sta instead is if I'm a total neck beard and I know I'm gonna get bis everything in whatever the top raiding guild is, and this choice is even easier if you already have a few 60s and you're paying for pl. Stamina returns on a wizard are terrible, especially when you compare what your max hp will be with cleric buffs.

[Kevynne]

if you want to min max, Erudite Wizard is best. High Elf and Dark Elf also exceptable.
agnostic best for deity, sol ro not terrible choice.
wizards very useful on raids. Ice Comet OP Sunstrike OP
you will be soloing most of the time because wizards are known for sitting afk in groups

[Tuljin]

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what you do, but the 150 extra mana to your mana pool at 60 over softcap is little more than one extra Tishan's Discord. Personally I'd rather take the HP and also we are talking min/max. STA returns are low while leveling but also INT returns are also low compared to pure +mana gear. With an Erudite you have as much INT base as other races after you've allocated points.

There's many times I've lived with low HP and I always thank the extra STA and HP gear. I probably also play with lower INT than most players just barely hovering around the softcap and I put priority in HP and resists when I have any INT points over softcap. Really though you'll be fine no matter what, no matter what you allocate you'll question it at lvl 60 =P

[Vallanor]

As a wizard, your sustained dps is determined entirely by your mana regen rate, not your maximum mana. Unless you're planning on unloading an entire mana bar on something (this can happen during some quads or during aoe groups), I'd swap some mana for hps any day of the week.

Granted I chose high elf, which is correctly identified as the worst min-max race, so take my advice with a grain of Felwithean salt.

[Rasah]

I played a high elf wizard on live, and a DE wizard here. The difference between having hide and not is huge. I use it multiple times each day I play.

[Castcalm]

What are all these 60 wizards hiding from?

[Tuljin]

Good question =) If you're on a "raid" hide is useless. If you are in a dungeon hide is convenient but still if you are somewhere dangerous you really want to get to a little safe corner somewhere. Usually you don't even have to invis in a spot where you would even consider staying for safety. If you're somewhere remotely unsafe you and your fellow adventurers will say "yeah, its not safe here, we either have to stay on top of these pops or go somewhere actually safe." You won't sit and hide, I guarantee it.

Then again most 60 Wizards on this server are parked for "raids" or playing on another toon and not camping tough nameds in dungeons. Hide is a nice racial ability but it really is non-essential. Since the nerf a while back its far less useful than it once was.

[Rasah]

Ever sit next to east wall in DL? It's pretty safe, until someone trains the KC guards to FV or FM. On their slow saunter back, they will aggro you if not invis or hidden. Hunting snow cougars or snow griffins? Just park yourself right in the middle of EW and hide. Immense time saver.

[Bweetza]

I took a look at the Magelos on the wiki, and most went the INT, STR/STA route. Members of raiding guilds seemed to tend more towards the STA. This is a tiny, probably non representative group though.

I wanted to see how easy it is to get to the INT caps, so I made a quick fantasy gear list. None of this involves raiding to my knowledge, and everything except the staff can be bought (not for a new character, though). I believe everything is also pre Velious. This is not an optimal list for anything.

Gatorscale Sleeves / 4
Molten Cloak / 4
Froglok Bonecaster's Robe / 8
Batskull Earring / 5
Ivandyr's Hoop / 6
Sheer Bone Mask / 3
Sarnak Hide Boots / 5
Velium Rose Engagement Ring / 5
Velium Rose Engagement Ring / 5
Impskin Gloves / 5
Runed Cowl / 9
Loam Encrusted Pantaloons / 3
Sapphire Platinum Necklace / 7
Sarnak Ceremonial Dagger / 3
Loam Encrusted Amice / 3
Giants Reminder String / 5
Polished Bone Bracelet / 3
Polished Bone Bracelet / 3
Staff of the Wheel / 10
Glowing Black Stone / 9

That gives a total of 106 INT. An unmodified Erudite INT of 117 puts you over the soft cap already. So, yes, the cap might be an issue. I'm just not sure if you gain more from adding the STA or having a high INT to more easily substitute items and stay around 200.

Decisions are hard.

[Lojik]

I took a look at the Magelos on the wiki, and most went the INT, STR/STA route. Members of raiding guilds seemed to tend more towards the STA. This is a tiny, probably non representative group though.

I wanted to see how easy it is to get to the INT caps, so I made a quick fantasy gear list. None of this involves raiding to my knowledge, and everything except the staff can be bought (not for a new character, though). I believe everything is also pre Velious. This is not an optimal list for anything.

Gatorscale Sleeves / 4
Molten Cloak / 4
Froglok Bonecaster's Robe / 8
Batskull Earring / 5
Ivandyr's Hoop / 6
Sheer Bone Mask / 3
Sarnak Hide Boots / 5
Velium Rose Engagement Ring / 5
Velium Rose Engagement Ring / 5
Impskin Gloves / 5
Runed Cowl / 9
Loam Encrusted Pantaloons / 3
Sapphire Platinum Necklace / 7
Sarnak Ceremonial Dagger / 3
Loam Encrusted Amice / 3
Giants Reminder String / 5
Polished Bone Bracelet / 3
Polished Bone Bracelet / 3
Staff of the Wheel / 10
Glowing Black Stone / 9

That gives a total of 106 INT. An unmodified Erudite INT of 117 puts you over the soft cap already. So, yes, the cap might be an issue. I'm just not sure if you gain more from adding the STA or having a high INT to more easily substitute items and stay around 200.

Decisions are hard.

But a lot of this gear can be swapped for hp gear/mana gear, usually going for int on your character select then mana/hp items is more effective

[Tuljin]

Pure mana and HP is much better at lower levels than returns from STA and INT. For example a better (and cheaper) pair of gloves for a nub is the Dusty Bloodstained Gloves instead of the Impskin. I would also get a pair of Silversilk Leggings rather than spending money on Loam Pants because of pure HP. Gatorscale Sleeves are a good choice because of the pure HP. For bracelets you can buy cheap jewelcrafted HP/Mana ones, Golden Jaded Bracelets. A pair of HP rings is also an excellent idea for a nub toon, probably the best way to spend your money.

Also, if you're going to save up for something and you're not going to powerlevel your nub Wiz, get a Solist's Icy Wand. Its a great item until up into your 30s. They have crashed in price because everybody powerlevels these days. I've seen them sell for as low as 1500 plat, which is attainable even for a nub.

[Bweetza]

Pure mana and HP is much better at lower levels than returns from STA and INT. For example a better (and cheaper) pair of gloves for a nub is the Dusty Bloodstained Gloves instead of the Impskin. I would also get a pair of Silversilk Leggings rather than spending money on Loam Pants because of pure HP. Gatorscale Sleeves are a good choice because of the pure HP. For bracelets you can buy cheap jewelcrafted HP/Mana ones, Golden Jaded Bracelets. A pair of HP rings is also an excellent idea for a nub toon, probably the best way to spend your money.

Also, if you're going to save up for something and you're not going to powerlevel your nub Wiz, get a Solist's Icy Wand. Its a great item until up into your 30s. They have crashed in price because everybody powerlevels these days. I've seen them sell for as low as 1500 plat, which is attainable even for a nub.None of those choices were meant to be optimal, just an exercise in seeing if it was easy to max INT without raid gear.

Wand is on my list. Might try and camp it as an alt, but I may be underestimating how rare a drop it is.

[Tuljin]

And you see how easy it is to hit softcap on Wiz =)

[Raev]

I am a full on HP whore, but I feel like going full STA on a Wizard is overthinking it, unless maybe you are already in a raiding guild and you know you enjoy it and you can twink decently.

First, on a Wizard you basically want two sets of gear: full mana for targets where you won't be AEd/nuked, and a mix of resists > mana > HP for targets where you will be. Swapping out those slots for resist gear really cuts into your INT total. For example, I went full INT on my Nagafen/Vox alt and even with fairly legit gear he has only 193 unbuffed (http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Shockand).

But OK, even if you get a solid load of PD/Velious gear and are hundreds of points over the INT cap . . . are you really going to miss the 60 HP from 25 STA? That's 2% of your total HP and 1/5 of a wort pot charge. Let's also not forget how annoying it is to obtain raid gear on this server.

And in the remaining months it takes you to level up to 60, your Wizard is going to be even more gimped than the class normally is. How do you plan to make even 10k to hit the cap? Spend 2 months farming the sisters in Lesser Faydark?

[Bweetza]

I'm not too concerned about being gimped during the leveling/gearing process. I don't want to sink hundreds of hours into a character, realize I made a terrible mistake, and have no way to fix it.

Regardless of stats, definitely going Erudite. Hide is nice, but the Stamina and SVM that an Erudite gets seems more important to me. There's also less faction trouble, although that's more a convenience than anything.

[Lojik]

Int past the Softcap still gives better returns than stamina

[Tuljin]

Really it boils down to this -

An extra 60 HP at level 60

An extra 150 maybe 200 mana at level 60, depending on where you sit near the 200 softcap

Seeing how there are so many mathematicians that are published in scientific journals on this server it breaks down like this -

60 HP is 5% of an unbuffed 1200 HP pool, which for a non "raid" geared wizard is quite high. Its also quite high for most INT casters because most players here don't gear for HP at all. If you're not "raid" geared this will work out to a higher percentage of your HP pool.

150 mana is 5% of a 3000 mana pool, which is attainable without "raid" gear and focus on INT and mana gearing, which most players here gear for.

Its all up to what you are willing to live with. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer. In my humble opinion the HP is a better choice but it is definitely not a gamebreaker. There is also no "winning" at EQ, just dealing with people with online video game addiction and personality disorders.

[Rararboker]

60HP won't save you from anything after lvl 45.

Extra 150 mana = one cast of gate.


Take that from a lvl 60 wizard.

[Bweetza]

I'm confident that 60 HP is not as good as 150 mana, in most contexts, for a wizard. The issue is whether, once top end with good gear, it becomes 0 mana (from INT) versus 60 HP.

I may be agonizing over this more than I should for a game people play for fun.

[deadlycupcakez]

Become a female Dark Elf who follows Innoruuk. Then have a pal make the cultural chain armor of Innoruuk for all of your visual slots except feet and wrist then get some Golden Efreeti Boots and a Golden Chitin Bracer as well as a Glowing Black Stone and a Drachnid Thyxl then revel in winning fashionquest be that and role playing are all that matters. Except for run on sentences - and PvP but I think this is for blue.

Oh also you will only win fashionquest until you run past a female Erudite wizard in Alendine's old robe with an epic and an Insignia Protector but they aren't too common.

[EQNoob]

60HP won't save you from anything after lvl 45.

Extra 150 mana = one cast of gate.


Take that from a lvl 60 wizard.

Extra root or snare too, but at that point you should be gating.

Well have fun with your 60 extra hp while I just cast manaskin. That 9pp really put a dent in my funds.

[Rararboker]

Yep, Manaskin + Manasink.


Also, erudite never wins fashionquest. No amount of style can hide that much forehead.

[Castcalm]

Become a female Dark Elf who follows Innoruuk. Then have a pal make the cultural chain armor of Innoruuk for all of your visual slots except feet and wrist then get some Golden Efreeti Boots and a Golden Chitin Bracer as well as a Glowing Black Stone and a Drachnid Thyxl then revel in winning fashionquest be that and role playing are all that matters. Except for run on sentences - and PvP but I think this is for blue.

Oh also you will only win fashionquest until you run past a female Erudite wizard in Alendine's old robe with an epic and an Insignia Protector but they aren't too common.

Quoted for emphasis. Except I'd still choose agnostic. THERE IS (PROBABLY) NO GOD.

[Bweetza]

Style wasn't one of my questions, but thanks, I guess.

[deadlycupcakez]

3) Are there any irreversible pitfalls in character construction/skill allocation that I am missing?

The biggest irreversible pitfall in character construction is creating a character with a model you cannot stand to look at...

[Bweetza]

I guess that would qualify. I am bested.

[Mr Popo]

Then have a pal make the cultural chain armor of Innoruuk

(wave) I'm close.

FWIW like +50 int significantly anecdotally improves fizzle rates, resists by a ton. No idea how much if any 200-250 does but I got to think it does something else right?

[Bweetza]

FWIW like +50 int significantly anecdotally improves fizzle rates, resists by a ton. No idea how much if any 200-250 does but I got to think it does something else right?So much of what the stats do in EQ is hidden from the player, but it's entirely possible that INT has no effect other than the stated increase in mana pool and improving the chance of skill ups.