Rampage

[Treats]

This NPC skill is not working correctly at all, it's trivialized.

Currently if you are on RAMPAGE, all you have to do is move out of melee range to avoid it completely.

Rampage had no range limit and there should not be any altering of the list as it becomes set.

[Daldaen]

Cite your sources on the range of Rampage being unlimited please.

I feel it is quite small on this server but I don't believe it should be unlimited. It would often bounce around due to distance.

It does set the list in stone though, aggro clearing can dump you from the list though like an FD or a CotH.

[Daldaen]

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5003&highlight=Rampage+range

Anyone got a good handle how or why one gets on a rampage list, or more importantly, how one gets OFF the rampage list? =)

DA dont work. It takes you off the list only while u r DAd.

Moving out of range works, but once you move back in range, yer instantly back on.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3640&highlight=Rampage+range

Basically this thread says Rampage and Melee range are different. But you can heal or nuke from out of rampage range.

[Treats]

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5003&highlight=Rampage+range



http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3640&highlight=Rampage+range

Basically this thread says Rampage and Melee range are different. But you can heal or nuke from out of rampage range.

Range differed depending on NPC -- some were unlimited, no clue how to figure that out now though :P

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-103.html

[Daldaen]

Yea beyond that one dudes reference to unlimited range and no clarification on which mobs have unlimited range, we certainly should not make it unlimited across all mobs.

The range shouldn't be unlimited for any mob unless some definitive evidence can be found to support it should be unlimited. Because that's a ridiculous proposition.

Increasing it slightly beyond melee range can be done but it shouldn't be 100', I never remember max range clerics getting rampaged. Only when they were forced to get a bit closer. Which added value to the extended range foci.

[Treats]

Yea beyond that one dudes reference to unlimited range and no clarification on which mobs have unlimited range, we certainly should not make it unlimited across all mobs.

The range shouldn't be unlimited for any mob unless some definitive evidence can be found to support it should be unlimited. Because that's a ridiculous proposition.


It's completely trivial being set to melee range as is...

If you're bad and refuse to set your Rampage list and heal your Rampage tank then it should be difficult.


Increasing it slightly beyond melee range can be done but it shouldn't be 100', I never remember max range clerics getting rampaged. Only when they were forced to get a bit closer. Which added value to the extended range foci.

Clerics would never get Rampaged as long as the list was set correctly and the Ramp tank was kept alive. Clerics died because Ramp Tanks died, not because of Rampage range.

It was probably based somewhat on the level of the NPC:

51-56 100 units
57-62 200 units
63+ Unlimited

Something like that

[Daldaen]

No. All raid bosses did not have unlimited rampage range. That is a ridiculous proposition.

I agree you should be required to set ramp and the range should extend beyond melee hitbox. It should not be as large as a 200' AE though. Casters could routinely cast from range and randomly would get womped by the rampage when they snuck closer to the mob due to them not realizing they were so high up. Not on all mobs but many.

Example - Magmaton in Plane of Fire we would routinely make a ranged only fight because he rampages so frequently it wasn't feasible to heal basically 2 main tanks. Clerics had no issues CHing with no extended range foci and never get hit by rampage. No Rampage bosses in PoP had unlimited rampage. Every single one the clerics could outrange.

[Treats]

Example - Magmaton in Plane of Fire we would routinely make a ranged only fight because he rampages so frequently it wasn't feasible to heal basically 2 main tanks. Clerics had no issues CHing with no extended range foci and never get hit by rampage. No Rampage bosses in PoP had unlimited rampage. Every single one the clerics could outrange.

What?? Of course no boss had unlimited range with AE Rampage...

[Daldaen]

What?? Of course no boss had unlimited range with AE Rampage...

No mobs in PoP had AE rampage until after revamps. They were all single target rampages which is to what you refer and what we have here. The reason the fights were fought at range wasn't because Wild Rampage killing DPS it was because they Rampaged so frequently it was like having to CH Chain two main tanks and our guild didn't have the clerics to support this.

Fennin Ro was another example. We had to line up our clerics and make sure our clerics had extended range foci, if Fennin moved forward on the tank or if a wizard overaggroed him and moved him up, his Rampage would plow the cleric line. I'd say his was 100' range because tanks and clerics in a linear path with extended range and no movement on Fennin was required for this tactic to work. However there were several other rampage fights we handled similarly where we didn't need extended range or to pay attention much at all to being at max range and clerics didn't get eaten.

I'd tend to say 100' is about the maximum range any boss should Rampage at.

Again - No boss should have unlimited Rampage range. Find me quote that say otherwise on the bosses you think should have unlimited range on Rampage.

[Raev]

Well, here is 1 more link:

http://graffe.nadiar.net/forums/showthread.php?3453-Wizardly-FAQ-v-0-12-Alpha-%2813-03-2002-10-44%29

Although this guy doesn't seem to really know that much.


Q: What is a rampage list?
A: Certain 'uber mobs' have rampage lists where a set number of people near the top of the hate list are all hit when the monster 'Rampages'. A rampage being a special attack where the monster hits multiple players all at once. Rampage has a huge range, so don't be surprised if the monster melees you half way across a zone if you've qualified yourself a place on the list.

There is debate as to whether the list is simply the top few on the hate list, or whether its maintained seperately. Frankly, I don't know!

[Daldaen]

The last paragraph basically discredits anything he is saying. AE Rampage did not exist at that point in time - Rampage was limited to a single player and dependent on order of getting on aggro list as we all know.

I spent a lot of time doing PoP, Luclin and Velious content on Al'Kabor. Much of which was spent using a single charmed pet tanking, never did my casters get hit by rampage when in casting range. Rampage would just trigger and no one would get hit. This includes 1-2 grouping Tormax using Dlammaz as a charmed pet and just him (what a beast he was).

[pasi]

Daldaen is (mostly) correct.

Rampage is a list determined by order of initial aggro. When an NPC rampages, it goes down this list until it finds the first viable target. Your spot on the list is set unless you successfully blur/FD/FM/etc. If you are the rampage tank and out-range rampage, you will pass rampage on to the next viable target. However, your spot on the list is preserved, so returning to rampage range will still cause you be the first viable target (and thus eating rampage).

A couple of small notes:

1) DA/DB didn't change whether or not the player got rampaged. Many guilds used paladin rampage tanks for this reason with Divine Hammer. It did have some weak points such as heals not going through. Paladins did try to counter this by leaving rampage range if they were low on HP and DA was about to fade.

2) AE rampage functioned differently and was consistently able to be max melee ranged. Melee could attack Fennin Ro at max melee range and be safe from AE rampage.

3) ST Rampage could be ranged, the question obviously being "at what range?" There's a lot of conflicting evidence that points to a ton of NPC variation. For practicalities' sake, this boils down to melee range or not. I'm of the opinion that it's probably not variation and is likely some function of the NPC's hitbox/melee range.

4) If you want to test out all this, there's really no better mob than Arch Lich. He's perma rooted so NPC positioning won't change, procs rampage on nearly every attack round, and has a knockback. I don't believe LoSing it works, but he's also an easy mob to test that on.