Luclin models smooshed?

[DeadlyReza]

I'm not for them or against them, tried them out and pretty much forgot i had them on.

but looks like sirken/rogean were true to their word.

They dont work no more

[Oleris]

yeah, global load file now needs to be verified when you select server :(

[Oleris]

every patch you have to re-do the global load or ignore it when you extract, but it seems they blocked it unless it's classic models :*(

[Valerik]

Lame.

[Oleris]

Also, check out the EULA terms when you load up everquest. new rules just for p1999 on there.

[Ele]

Praise

[Plowyabeastlord]

how are people getting on? its tellin me I need to DL patch still on char select

[Oleris]

go 2 front page of p1999. new files there.

http://www.project1999.com/files/P99Files37.zip

[Oleris]

also, now RMT now considered for food/delivery. RIP blooming onions + that cookie thread from a couple days ago ;)

[Oleris]

looks like log readers still allowed with new eula.

[Valerik]

Gonna be a lot of rustled jimmies about the Luclin models though, and I can understand why. Doesn't make sense to me to "fix" something that had no tangible effect on other's gameplay.

Project99 Homeowner's Association.

[DeadlyReza]

nice, good on them then!

[DeadlyReza]

i could be wrong then, did realise the global load got over ridden

[Laugher]

Gonna be a lot of rustled jimmies about the Luclin models though, and I can understand why. Doesn't make sense to me to "fix" something that had no tangible effect on other's gameplay.

Project99 Homeowner's Association.

Although Luclin models themselves have no effect on blue the altering of files so that other models show up over on red (ex. changing skeleton models who lack nameplates to human models who have names above their head, so that a person with an AoN is just a human complete w/name above head) has become an issue to some degree. :(

[Rosk0e]

this is crap!

[myriverse]

Poor iksars are now forced to look like malnourished nerds.

Oooooh... so that explains the preference.

[Oleris]

this is crap!

http://i.imgur.com/lEABXpm.gif

[Revelation]

Someone plz find a workaround.. these classic models are terrible

[Ele]

Someone plz find a workaround.. these classic models are terrible

Eq live

[Pscottdai]

Eq live

That's the spirit - drive away players!

[Ele]

That's the spirit - drive away players!

Classic isn't for everyone. /shrug

[Tiewon Shu]

I agree the classic models are horrible. Consider me going back to SWTOR until it's fixed.

[Ele]

I agree the classic models are horrible. Consider me going back to SWTOR until it's fixed.

http://i.imgur.com/E33bIAX.jpg

[ElricX]

Gonna be a lot of rustled jimmies about the Luclin models though, and I can understand why. Doesn't make sense to me to "fix" something that had no tangible effect on other's gameplay.

Project99 Homeowner's Association.

haha =)

Well its far from parking your rusted chevy cavalier on the front lawn..;)

I am a fan of Luclin graphics. Really no harm/maintenance the Devs have to put forward in maintaining them as far as we know right?

Its more like an inground water sprinkler system..you never know anyone has them..:cool:

[Swish]

Someone plz find a workaround.. these classic models are terrible

Luclin models were never cool, you need to prove to everyone you've still got the classic spirit.

http://i.imgur.com/oXsuXNc.gif

[Revelation]

Luclin models were never cool, you need to prove to everyone you've still got the classic spirit.

http://i.imgur.com/oXsuXNc.gif

The game remains classic.. who cares what I AM SEEING on my screen as long as it doesn't alter other peoples gameplay or doesn't give me an advantage over others.. some people take this whole classic thing out of proportion. Also people use duxa ui, norrath map, auction logger etc.. but those are.just fine and not classic..

[myriverse]

Luclin models were never cool, you need to prove to everyone you've still got the classic spirit.
Classic models were never cool. They were just something forced upon us out of ignorance.

[kruch66]

Ah this feels good. This coming just a few weeks after someone was trying to tell me that the devs would never (and could never) force disable the luclin models.

[Yippee38]

Although Luclin models themselves have no effect on blue the altering of files so that other models show up over on red (ex. changing skeleton models who lack nameplates to human models who have names above their head, so that a person with an AoN is just a human complete w/name above head) has become an issue to some degree. :(

So have the server verify that you are using either the "classic" version of the file, or the "luclin models" version of the file. That gives everybody what they want, and prevent cheating.

[Madriu]

Luclin models aren't great, but the classic models are distractingly horrible.

Too distracting for me to keep playing, I'll be logging in my characters later when there is more population to give away my gear and stuff.

Keep Kontent Klassic Taliban won today.:(

[Swish]

reroll a character that looks the best with classic models... FashionQuest™ is alive and well it seems.

[kruch66]

Look, pro-luclin people. It isn't all bad. Now you can sit and med in indian style instead of in that horrible way that luclin models do. Who sits like that?

[Itap]

pras

[Swish]

Look, pro-luclin people. It isn't all bad. Now you can sit and med in indian style instead of in that horrible way that luclin models do. Who sits like that?

http://media.giphy.com/media/3oEdv1mYWpYv6P80ta/giphy.gif

[Zlain]

Retarded moronic dumb shit forced upon us by fanatical zealots. I guess the server dudes also think that jesus is the only way to make your life better or some shit too. Servers only at half of what they usually are. Wonder if that many people really did quit cause they have to stare at squares stacked to form a model. Im seriously leaning towards it.

[Zeonick]

I used to love the Luclin models back when they came out. I remember I would always try and save up for more RAM for my computer so I could activate more of them :D I do appreciate the classic models too though.

I like how in chain mail my barb looks super armored up, but with luclin models he looks like he is wearing skimpy lingerie.

[Afterburner]

When were Luclin graphics ever forced upon anyone?

Legacy of Ykesha, IIRC.

[Zeonick]

Legacy of Ykesha, IIRC.

I noticed he said classic models were forced, not luclin. I didn't read it correctly so I edited muh post :)

Good to know though, I probably didn't play during that time :P

[Rararboker]

To everyone saying luclin models only changes looks and don't offer advantages, look around the forum more. They actually offered a lot of gameplay advantages like the thing in CoM or being able to duck out of the stun from T-staff in pvp. There are others as well, most are documented on the forums.

[Itap]

Retarded moronic dumb shit forced upon us by fanatical zealots. I guess the server dudes also think that jesus is the only way to make your life better or some shit too. Servers only at half of what they usually are. Wonder if that many people really did quit cause they have to stare at squares stacked to form a model. Im seriously leaning towards it.

peace, 1 less berger on this server

[Somekid123]

pras classic models.

[iruinedyourday]

I love how all the people that love luclin models are all staff bashing asberger clowns. Gtfo of our classic game if you dont like it. go away.

[Ele]

The game remains classic.. who cares what I AM SEEING on my screen as long as it doesn't alter other peoples gameplay or doesn't give me an advantage over others.. some people take this whole classic thing out of proportion. Also people use duxa ui, norrath map, auction logger etc.. but those are.just fine and not classic..

A lot of the people praising the Luclin block also want that stuff gone too.

[mystang89]

I love how all the people that love luclin models are all staff bashing asberger clowns. Gtfo of our classic game if you dont like it. go away.

I love how you clump people who like luclin models at "all staff bashing asberger clowns." I know you're not judgmental and that you're just mental but I've done nothing but praise the staff for all the effort they put on this game. Doesn't mean I can't think they don't make bad decisions though. I personally think this is a horrible decision.

[Ele]

I love how you clump people who like luclin models at "all staff bashing asberger clowns." I know you're not judgmental and that you're just mental but I've done nothing but praise the staff for all the effort they put on this game. Doesn't mean I can't think they don't make bad decisions though. I personally think this is a horrible decision.

Opinion noted.

[untergang]

Is smooshed another word for ghey? If so, yes.

[iruinedyourday]

I love how you clump people who like luclin models at "all staff bashing asberger clowns." I know you're not judgmental and that you're just mental but I've done nothing but praise the staff for all the effort they put on this game. Doesn't mean I can't think they don't make bad decisions though. I personally think this is a horrible decision.

*everyone posting about luclin models, specifically you, you assberging rageaholic

[untergang]

I love how all the people that love luclin models are all staff bashing asberger clowns. Gtfo of our classic game if you dont like it. go away.

It's a fair assessment since autistic people tend to focus on technical details while ignoring artistic merit. They simply can't wrap their broken brains around the concept of aesthetics since beauty can't be broken down into a mathematical equation.

[Slayde]

It's like all these newer folks didn't know this was an emulated recreation of classic. Not just another Emu server with a theme or something.

[Danth]

If you've been here awhile you saw this coming. Folks who have a recent join date can be forgiven for not seeing this coming, so here's the short version: Staff here has always maintained, since 2009, that they'll make the server as classic as realistically possible, like it or not. Given a chance they'd revert us to the old UI, dark night time, single chat window, spellbook meditating, and other old features. In most cases the only reason we don't have this stuff already is because they can't find a practical means of enforcing it on the Titanium client used by eq-emulator. Every now and then some developer makes a breakthrough on a specific item and it gets "fixed."

When P1999 opened we started at 200 sense heading. We had a visible compass, target rings, /con color in target window, we could cast spells from sitting, and a host of other conveniences. All of these things have since been removed one by one. Some of them lasted years. You don't have to like everything about old-time EQ--I certainly don't!--but if you play here you accept that such things may be enforced at some point and deal with it as it arrives. In most cases you'll find that after a week or so you adjust to the new normal and stop noticing.

Danth

[Revelation]

A lot of the people praising the Luclin block also want that stuff gone too.

If they ban norrath map, duxa ui, or auction logger I won't be the only one that quits. You are looking at at least 50+.. the luclin models blocked won't keep me from playing.. but why cause stress to people who have become used to things being named legit by the devs themselves.. its just simply silly to block things like these.. I brought 3 friends over and they all quit cause no map sucks when u are a brand new player... classic is good.. to a certain point.. until frustration and real life time wasted on dumb shit like getting lost and relying on wiki maps becomes an issue.

[iruinedyourday]

Can't wait for you and your ilk to quit buhbye

[Rararboker]

The no map thing always confuses me. Zones in EQ are squares or rectangles 9.9/10 of the time. How do you not know how to navigate???

[untergang]

I hope the devs scrap the idea of making custom zones with custom itemization once Velious is complete. That would be even worse than Luclin models.

[Pyrocat]

If they ban norrath map, duxa ui, or auction logger I won't be the only one that quits. You are looking at at least 50+.. the luclin models blocked won't keep me from playing.. but why cause stress to people who have become used to things being named legit by the devs themselves.. its just simply silly to block things like these.. I brought 3 friends over and they all quit cause no map sucks when u are a brand new player... classic is good.. to a certain point.. until frustration and real life time wasted on dumb shit like getting lost and relying on wiki maps becomes an issue.

Luclin models aren't great, but the classic models are distractingly horrible.

Too distracting for me to keep playing, I'll be logging in my characters later when there is more population to give away my gear and stuff.

Keep Kontent Klassic Taliban won today.:(

Retarded moronic dumb shit forced upon us by fanatical zealots. I guess the server dudes also think that jesus is the only way to make your life better or some shit too. Servers only at half of what they usually are. Wonder if that many people really did quit cause they have to stare at squares stacked to form a model. Im seriously leaning towards it.

http://i.imgur.com/39yOKN9.gif

[Smedy]

Lame.

lame that you cant use unclassic shitty models on a classic eq server?

i think this was the best shit that has happened since p99 opened, i don't want my gnome to look like shit on someone elses screen just cause they are unclassic as fuck

pras the staff pras no luclin models

[Itap]

Danth has spoken, you plebs should feel honored he posted ITT.

Keeping shit classic for 6 years

[Revelation]

Can't wait for you and your ilk to quit buhbye

Considering your attitude and your forum name I assume your parents must be proud. /sarcasm off

[Fifield]

bout time, /cheer for this change

[iruinedyourday]

Considering your attitude and your forum name I assume your parents must be proud. /sarcasm off

they didnt raise a quitting crybaby with aspergers like yours did

[jarshale]

Retarded moronic dumb shit forced upon us by fanatical zealots. I guess the server dudes also think that jesus is the only way to make your life better or some shit too. Servers only at half of what they usually are. Wonder if that many people really did quit cause they have to stare at squares stacked to form a model. Im seriously leaning towards it.

This dude is really equating forcing classic models (on a classic server) with religion?

You need to step back from the computer, pal.

[slappytwotoes]

If they ban norrath map, duxa ui, or auction logger I won't be the only one that quits. You are looking at at least 50+..

Time to pack it up boys, 50+ might be quitting soon!

This is a classic server. Don't play here if you don't want classic.

[slappytwotoes]

I agree the classic models are horrible. Consider me going back to SWTOR until it's fixed.

This is the exact self-entitled bullshit attitude that pervades all the modern MMOs. Get this shit outta P99.

Peace out and praise Rogean + Nilbog for clearing out the filth.

[Hezron]

Well, I always liked the Luclin models over the classic ones and played with them on. I'm sad to see them go and think it should have been an optional choice. But I'll continue to enjoy the game with the class models as well. I just thought I looked cooler in my armor before.

[Dr3am]

Rararborker (or whatever, heh) wrote: "To everyone saying luclin models only changes looks and don't offer advantages, look around the forum more. They actually offered a lot of gameplay advantages like the thing in CoM or being able to duck out of the stun from T-staff in pvp. There are others as well, most are documented on the forums."

[Rangerboy]

I agree. I think Luclin looks better too. And to be honest, who is it harming?? its client side. If you want everything to look classic then keep the defaults.

[Rangerboy]

advantages? why dont the ban people who use programmable keyboards and mouses too then.

[untergang]

Time to pack it up boys, 50+ might be quitting soon!

This is a classic server. Don't play here if you don't want classic.

RIP in pieces, P99.

[Ele]

advantages? why dont the ban people who use programmable keyboards and mouses too then.

They should. Give it time. The server is just one long beta.

[Buellen]

To all you waaaa I'm leaving!!! (throws lollipop to floor) people.


1. I respect this so much that it is in my sig.

Nilbog:

" I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy."


2. You small amount of folks throwing a tantrum is not going to change the server admins views, guess what THEY have seen young person tantrums before and they will see them again its nothing new .



3. read 1 and 2 again


4. breath some fresh air move on or stay it does not really matter. The rest of use who will continue play will enjoy the server.

[Portasaurus]

Remember when all those people quit because colors were removed from the target windows?

Yeah me neither

[iruinedyourday]

http://funmozar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Beautiful-Waterfalls-At-Night-01-448x300.jpg?timestamp=1438387272http://images.travelpod.com/tripwow/photos/ta-00be-d9f0-1c8b/reykjavik-s-beautiful-waterfalls-reykjavik-iceland+1152_12922885005-tpfil02aw-12934.jpghttp://hd.wallpaperswide.com/thumbs/beautiful_waterfalls-t2.jpghttp://getwallpapers.net/wallpapers/m/85/crown_of_flowers_on_beautiful_waterfalls_m84453.jp g

[milsorgen]

Lol @ people being butthurt over this.

[milsorgen]

This is the exact self-entitled bullshit attitude that pervades all the modern MMOs. Get this shit outta P99.

Peace out and praise Rogean + Nilbog for clearing out the filth.

Preach on!

[Riotgirl]

I can deal with almost all classic changes, except classic UI. That would drive me from P99. Hell! I'd take book-in-the-face whilst medding, anything but classic UI.

Was the new UI introduced with Luclin? If so, perhaps I should relax my grievance towards Luclin after all these years.

[Rangerboy]

The "Luclin" models were actually due to release in velious but were released in the Luclin expansion.

[Pint]

Excellent change, peace out 2015ers

[Revelation]

Lol let's make the game look like shit rather than using luclin models (which most people got the game from a torrent) and praise classic.. like I just don't get it.. ok u want classic mechanics I do too.. but.. why do u prefer shit triangle graphics when u can have decent looking models while keeping classic eq gameplay and mechanics.. its mind boggling how u classic worshipers bash others who prefer somewhat better graphics.. smh

[Revelation]

they didnt raise a quitting crybaby with aspergers like yours did

When you break 13 and learn to spell and make sense I'll take you seriously kiddo

[Ele]

Lol let's make the game look like shit rather than using luclin models (which most people got the game from a torrent) and praise classic.. like I just don't get it.. ok u want classic mechanics I do too.. but.. why do u prefer shit triangle graphics when u can have decent looking models while keeping classic eq gameplay and mechanics.. its mind boggling how u classic worshipers bash others who prefer somewhat better graphics.. smh

opinions are like assholes, so are luclin models

[Revelation]

opinions are like assholes, so are luclin models

My point has been proven by your comment. Thanks sir.. carry on.

[Buellen]

Ok how about another angle.

It does not matter what YOU want, all that matter to the devs is to get as close to classic as they can. Danth in another post earlier explained it very clearly.

Since it not YOURS, MINE , or others server we follow the rules and CHANGES the dev wish to enforce here.

Stay , go , take a break the server will still be here and people will continue to enjoy it.


Lol let's make the game look like shit rather than using luclin models (which most people got the game from a torrent) and praise classic.. like I just don't get it.. ok u want classic mechanics I do too.. but.. why do u prefer shit triangle graphics when u can have decent looking models while keeping classic eq gameplay and mechanics.. its mind boggling how u classic worshipers bash others who prefer somewhat better graphics.. smh

[ryachart]

Lol let's make the game look like shit rather than using luclin models (which most people got the game from a torrent) and praise classic.. like I just don't get it.. ok u want classic mechanics I do too.. but.. why do u prefer shit triangle graphics when u can have decent looking models while keeping classic eq gameplay and mechanics.. its mind boggling how u classic worshipers bash others who prefer somewhat better graphics.. smh

You have a point. Classic EQ could be vastly improved by a few important changes: slightly better graphics, slightly better UI, maps, etc.

I really, really, truly crave a server that's basically just Classic EQ mechanics with a few simple Quality of Life Improvements.

Unfortunately, that server does not exist or isn't as popular as P99.

If you crave that ClassicEQ+QoL Improvements, make it. Go out there and do it.

The guys who run this show have a goal, and it's not to make ClassicEQ+QoL Improvements. They don't charge you money to play here, and they put in a lot of work to keep the lights on. They want you to play and have a good time, but not at the expense of their goal.

[criddopher]

If you've been here awhile you saw this coming. Folks who have a recent join date can be forgiven for not seeing this coming, so here's the short version: Staff here has always maintained, since 2009, that they'll make the server as classic as realistically possible, like it or not. Given a chance they'd revert us to the old UI, dark night time, single chat window, spellbook meditating, and other old features. In most cases the only reason we don't have this stuff already is because they can't find a practical means of enforcing it on the Titanium client used by eq-emulator. Every now and then some developer makes a breakthrough on a specific item and it gets "fixed."

When P1999 opened we started at 200 sense heading. We had a visible compass, target rings, /con color in target window, we could cast spells from sitting, and a host of other conveniences. All of these things have since been removed one by one. Some of them lasted years. You don't have to like everything about old-time EQ--I certainly don't!--but if you play here you accept that such things may be enforced at some point and deal with it as it arrives. In most cases you'll find that after a week or so you adjust to the new normal and stop noticing.

Danth


said best right there

I used luclin models most of the time

[Buellen]

thanks criddopher was going to post that but ya beat me to it.

[Revelation]

You have a point. Classic EQ could be vastly improved by a few important changes: slightly better graphics, slightly better UI, maps, etc.

I really, really, truly crave a server that's basically just Classic EQ mechanics with a few simple Quality of Life Improvements.

Unfortunately, that server does not exist or isn't as popular as P99.

If you crave that ClassicEQ+QoL Improvements, make it. Go out there and do it.

The guys who run this show have a goal, and it's not to make ClassicEQ+QoL Improvements. They don't charge you money to play here, and they put in a lot of work to keep the lights on. They want you to play and have a good time, but not at the expense of their goal.

I agree 100% and in no way am I bashing the devs for what they do.. on the contrary.. I appreciate them giving us this opportunity to enjoy this as it was/is my favorite mmo ever.. but some things like not allowing luclin models just seems silly to me. Either way I will adapt to the classic models.. I don't get why anyone would quit over models.. the thing is I installed this game with the luclin models.. have played with them ever since.. not used to classic models.. haven't seen them since 1999.. my thoughts is if the luclin models were gonna be blocked then why allow people to use them in the first place.. its on the forums still.. lol

[ryachart]

I agree 100% and in no way am I bashing the devs for what they do.. on the contrary.. I appreciate them giving us this opportunity to enjoy this as it was/is my favorite mmo ever.. but some things like not allowing luclin models just seems silly to me. Either way I will adapt to the classic models.. I don't get why anyone would quit over models.. the thing is I installed this game with the luclin models.. have played with them ever since.. not used to classic models.. haven't seen them since 1999.. my thoughts is if the luclin models were gonna be blocked then why allow people to use them in the first place.. its on the forums still.. lol

The reason they allowed them in the first place was a technical limitation. Basically, they didn't have a way to NOT allow them.

As of today they do.

[Yippee38]

To all you waaaa I'm leaving!!! (throws lollipop to floor) people.


1. I respect this so much that it is in my sig.

Nilbog:

" I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy."


2. You small amount of folks throwing a tantrum is not going to change the server admins views, guess what THEY have seen young person tantrums before and they will see them again its nothing new .

I doubt very much that many "young persons" are actually playing P99. We may have been young in '99, but now.......

[slappytwotoes]

I agree 100% and in no way am I bashing the devs for what they do.. on the contrary.. I appreciate them giving us this opportunity to enjoy this as it was/is my favorite mmo ever.. but some things like not allowing luclin models just seems silly to me. Either way I will adapt to the classic models.. I don't get why anyone would quit over models.. the thing is I installed this game with the luclin models.. have played with them ever since.. not used to classic models.. haven't seen them since 1999.. my thoughts is if the luclin models were gonna be blocked then why allow people to use them in the first place.. its on the forums still.. lol

Its not about whether Luclin models are good/bad/ugly, they aren't classic. This server is about recreating classic Everquest with all its good/bad/ugly.

MMOs fixed/improved on lots of EQ concepts and they also ruined/omitted others. Taking the bad with the good is part of the classic EQ experience.

Just simmer down and enjoy in all its pixelated glory.

[Revelation]

Its not about whether Luclin models are good/bad/ugly, they aren't classic. This server is about recreating classic Everquest with all its good/bad/ugly.

MMOs fixed/improved on lots of EQ concepts and they also ruined/omitted others. Taking the bad with the good is part of the classic EQ experience.

Just simmer down and enjoy in all its pixelated glory.

I guess I will bro. I love eq since 1999 really not much will stop me from playing.. just thought id speak my mind with the luclin models being blocked but if u love eq you put up with it. :)

[myriverse]

Look, pro-luclin people. It isn't all bad. Now you can sit and med in indian style instead of in that horrible way that luclin models do. Who sits like that?
Me. Haven't sat "Indian style" since like 2nd grade.

And heck, Iksars don't even sit with classic models. Looks more like they're taking a dump.

[Daldaen]

Me. Haven't sat "Indian style" since like 2nd grade.

And heck, Iksars don't even sit with classic models. Looks more like they're taking a dump.

They do the Qui Gon Jinn Meditate:

https://philiprosedale.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/meditation.jpg

[kruch66]

Me. Haven't sat "Indian style" since like 2nd grade.

And heck, Iksars don't even sit with classic models. Looks more like they're taking a dump.

Damn bro, you sit like this?

[felixecho]

I see why they would be pulled, since they are going for a classic feel.

If anyone has experience with other servers, maybe that are still classic-ish, but with some of the quality of life enhancements?

We can have multiple EQ folders on one computer, so we can try out other servers.

I think that, barring the bazaar, that Luclin would be perfect! Maybe one of these other servers out there can be swamped by all of us yearning for that experience?

[Pringles]

I used luclin models, not at all surprised.... figure this was coming because:

http://i.imgur.com/289JSGs.gif

I am already getting used to the old models, again. So IDC.

Also, as many, or more, cried they were quitting over previous changes, last one was con colors for light blue mobs, yet most are still here, winter is at our doorsteps... people will keep playing ;)

Welcome to P99, shits classic.

[jcr4990]

This blows. I hate changes like this. I also hate every nerd that's ever uttered the words "Shit's Classic" in defense of ridiculous changes that nobody wants.

Will I quit? Probably not. But every time I have to look at a fatty mcfatfat troll/ogre classic model it's going to suck. Especially since my main is a 60 troll shaman :/

[Rararboker]

Lol "changes that nobody wants".

Vast over generalization? Serve them up here!

[Itap]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81GJTQIryvL._SL1500_.jpg

[jcr4990]

Lol "changes that nobody wants".

Vast over generalization? Serve them up here!Sorry I'll re-phrase

Changes that a handful of ubernerds want that 100% don't affect them in any way but they want other people to not have the option to have what they want cause ruining other peoples fun is fun for them.

I vote everyone not using a CRT monitor gets banned from P99. Shit is not classic and I won't stand for it. It greatly affects my personal enjoyment of P99 when other people use modern monitors. Also if your internet speed is above 56k = autoban. Ruins my classic experience and gives others an unfair advantage.

[Rararboker]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81GJTQIryvL._SL1500_.jpg

[Zaela]

Found a basis for workarounds.

http://i.imgur.com/Mqw35hP.png

Would take some time to get it working smoothly and idk if I care that much.

[Dr3am]

How many times do people have to tell you that these models were not benign- they were being used to exploit in a number of different ways. I thought I read a thread about some Luclin models allowing people to get into places in ToFS that they shouldn't. Dimes to dollars that (and the Red issue with AoN) are the real reasons this happened.

But if it makes you feel better to rage that this is all about 'shits classic' then more power to you. It's your story tell it like you want to.

[Thiefboy777]

they didnt raise a quitting crybaby with aspergers like yours did


Hate speach, please ban this guy.

[kaev]

opinions are like assholes, so are luclin models

Thank you.

[gekkonidae]

pras

[Zaela]

Found a basis for workarounds.

http://i.imgur.com/Mqw35hP.png

Would take some time to get it working smoothly and idk if I care that much.

I forgot about something obvious when I was looking at this earlier. Looks like nothing at all is done to prevent simply changing the contents of the files that are global loaded; easy to work around.

Would still take a little effort, but much less than I was thinking. Bit disappointing.

[Oleris]

Found a basis for workarounds.

http://i.imgur.com/Mqw35hP.png

Would take some time to get it working smoothly and idk if I care that much.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/life_finds_a_way_jurassic_park.gif

[Swish]

Sooo... if they restored luclin models to red, would you migrate?

[Tiewon Shu]

Sooo... if they restored luclin models to red, would you migrate?

I would in a heart beat and never look back.

[felixecho]

Sooo... if they restored luclin models to red, would you migrate?

Har.

No.

I'm all about the blue, I don't even care if the PVP is disabled on a blue server, no skin from my noseth. PVP people got their own mindset, they need their own server, and never the twain shall meet. As the gods intended.

[felixecho]

Found a basis for workarounds.

http://i.imgur.com/Mqw35hP.png

Would take some time to get it working smoothly and idk if I care that much.


Please someone, make this a reality soon, blue only, I really don't care about the red world or 'spoits I just really, really, really, really, really hate looking at ugly models.

There is a reason that the folks at Sony upgraded the graphics tout suite, and it had nothing to do with 'sploits on a PVP server, but rather it had to do with the derpy looking iksar, the ugly short people and the blocky graphics that make a rouge like or Angband look pretty kick ass in comparison!


Current 'classic' graphics:
.....@.....#
....$........
.......%....

[criddopher]

cool enough, someone will get em working then I'm sure.. In the meantime don't forget about the cooler velious armour textures (why I had planned to go back to old models at least for a little bit before this change) Also, for those of you who are really upset, you can try forcing AA up high and running enb injector.. Both make the game quite a bit nicer looking.

[PDX0621]

So now that the Luclin models are blocked, I've seen the that the "face" button under inventory doesn't seem to work either. Am I essentially stuck with whatever classic model face I have?

[PDX0621]

Sooo... if they restored luclin models to red, would you migrate?

I'd certainly start playing my cleric over there again :D

[Bristlebaner]

Now that you mention it - when the client detects Luclin models it should just uninstall your EQ. You're obviously not that committed to the classic experience, filthy casual.

[Lorian]

Haha, this explains why we've gotten quite a few new players on p2002! :) Not a chance in the world I'd ever log onto this server again with the fugly classic models!

[Bristlebaner]

Haha, this explains why we've gotten quite a few new players on p2002! :) Not a chance in the world I'd ever log onto this server again with the fugly classic models!

And that's why this server wasn't built for you.

[iruinedyourday]

So now that the Luclin models are blocked, I've seen the that the "face" button under inventory doesn't seem to work either. Am I essentially stuck with whatever classic model face I have?

you're the only one i feel sorry for, for not being able to play with luclin models. everyone else can die in a fire but you.. well even though you burnt out my eyes by posting a SS of my glorious shaman in ugly luclin graphics i still feel for you bear.

anyway face works.. it should alter the face, and then others can see it when you zone.. UNLESS They changed it with this patch to not work! that'd be new!

[PDX0621]

you're the only one i feel sorry for, for not being able to play with luclin models. everyone else can die in a fire but you.. well even though you burnt out my eyes by posting a SS of my glorious shaman in ugly luclin graphics i still feel for you bear.

anyway face works.. it should alter the face, and then others can see it when you zone.. UNLESS They changed it with this patch to not work! that'd be new!

Haha thanks for the support. At least you'll always know how I saw the world! I'm still in a grieving state. As long as life gives you lemons (classic models), you might as well make lemonade (pick your classic face!). I'll have to try it out again later. I didn't try zoning, so maybe that's the key.

[Rararboker]

Project 1999
Status: UP
Players: 2048


What about an exodus?

[Riotgirl]

Project 1999
Status: UP
Players: 2048


What about an exodus?

Let's see numbers are if Classic UI was implemented. Played Live with Classic UI - never again. Same reason I refuse to play Dragon Quest series [potrait view].

Dare I say it, perhaps I have been wrong about SoL after all these years ..

[nilbog]

if Classic UI was implemented. Played Live with Classic UI - never again. Same reason I refuse to play Dragon Quest series [potrait view].


You know the classic ui (prekunark->velious), you could just press f10, for fullscreen?

http://i53.tinypic.com/14x07fb.jpg

[Invalid_Bard]

The tears over character models are delicious. Seriously, you people are just bitching to bitch. Why do you care so much if your armor pokes off your character or is pasted on them? Did you enjoy the game before the space kitties invaded? If you answered yes, guess fucking what, they don't matter. If you answered no, maybe you shouldn't play a game you don't like? I mean, does it really matter?

[Zinyen]

You know the classic ui (prekunark->velious), you could just press f10, for fullscreen?

http://i53.tinypic.com/14x07fb.jpg

yeah, and i dont think the resolution was capped that low either, was it?

to be truly classic bronze armor has to look blue on amd cpus also

[Thulghor]

Losing the option for Luclin models makes me a little sad, but it isn't a deal breaker by any means. Life goes on.

[Axlrose]

Perhaps I am subtly masochist, but I forgot about the night vision aspect in the earliest game and look forward to that change eventually. And I have some non infravision characters in stock too ready to go bump in the night.

[Swish]

Use this as a platform for Cats on the Moon 2017 ;)

[Zaela]

Hokkay, found some time where I was bored: for you luclin model lovers out there, a quick and dirty workaround thingy https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70648819/downloads/Luclin%20Model%20Side%20Door.zip

On the one hand, it also works around the internal model dependencies (don't need human for erudite or wood elf for other elf). On the other hand, I hope you like baldness and, if a robe-wearer, pantslessness. External mesh pieces (like the baggy parts of robes) don't seem to get loaded correctly. Dunno if that would be fixable by cramming more data in there (where is hair even loaded from?). No idea if this applies to bulky plate armor or not!

Suitably flawed, but I wouldn't expect this to work for very long in any case.

http://i.imgur.com/qvuWAcX.png

[absol]

I'm on the server, and everyones cool. People leveling up, getting on with things, someone gave my shammy a crested mistmoore shield for free. I forget your name friend but you know who you are, a 58 Druid. Gave me thorns, then another Druid was running around Oasis buffing everyone (numerous times he went OOM so he just medded up and started buffing again).

That sort of thing is infectious so I went to EC and started finding people I could help out. Sowed everyone I could, went to Freeport and bound an Iksar there, refused the donation even though I don't even have money for my spells. And thats the spirit of Everquest - people needing help and getting it.

Then I come to the forums and people aren't happy with the old models and threaten to quit unless the luclin models are reinstated. And the people that are happy with the old models are angry too, for some reason, and they're posting insulting images and telling people to leave. Everyone getting angry, throwing tantrums, fighting.

It feels like people are channeling that 15 year old kid they were back in 99, when they discovered flaming and newsgroups for the first time. And they're unable to separate that from the father/mother they are now, with the mortgage, career and responsibilites that comes with 2015. You don't need all this drama to relive EQ. It was a part of it back then, sure. But we're all older now and life should have chipped away those rough edges.

If you enjoy Project 1999 and want to give back to the devs, a great way to start is to be civil with one another. Make the forums a welcoming place, Rogean et al will appreciate it. If you disagree with the decisions of the devs, there's a way of getting your point across and having a calm debate. Offer a compromise, or suggestions. The devs will listen to that, if you just offer threats they're more likely to dig their heels in than cave to demands. And likewise, if someone says stuff you disagree with don't exacerbate the problem by attacking them. You can disagree with them in a civil manner, you don't need to lose your cool and tell people to leave the server.

These forums will be newcomers first point of contact with the game. Try to make it a good one.

[Dartmon6511]

So I am a "2015" player, and have no problem admitting that against the crowd census that we are all pieces of crap who don't know anything. These forums also are an exact antithesis of the players that I interact with everyday on the server, and is quite eye-opening to the antics and childishness that takes place. But lets get on with the topic at hand here...

I am a fan of the Luclin models by far because classic models clearly look like they're made of legos. If a player wants Luclin models they should be able to change it. If they want Classic, just don't change the GlobalLoad to reflect it. DEV's want to control personal preference in the name of reminiscent P99 world that they are creating, but when it's client side, some leeway should be given. I think it would be easier to fix the small Luclin model bugs rather than scrapping the client side preference of many, many players.

I understand that the DEVs goal is to bring it as classic as possible, but to be honest there are much bigger fish to fry than getting rid of Luclin models, especially when it's something that is purely for the players own aesthetic preferences. But as a F2P Emu, not much complaining should be done and we should take it for what it's worth rather than trying to fight it in the end.

[PDX0621]

^^^ You presented a logical, rational, emotionless thought, and gave sensible reasons. Prepare your flame suit.

[Ele]

You know the classic ui (prekunark->velious), you could just press f10, for fullscreen?

http://i53.tinypic.com/14x07fb.jpg

Holly still causing tears 15 years later.

[ryachart]

So I am a "2015" player, and have no problem admitting that against the crowd census that we are all pieces of crap who don't know anything. These forums also are an exact antithesis of the players that I interact with everyday on the server, and is quite eye-opening to the antics and childishness that takes place. But lets get on with the topic at hand here...

I am a fan of the Luclin models by far because classic models clearly look like they're made of legos. If a player wants Luclin models they should be able to change it. If they want Classic, just don't change the GlobalLoad to reflect it. DEV's want to control personal preference in the name of reminiscent P99 world that they are creating, but when it's client side, some leeway should be given. I think it would be easier to fix the small Luclin model bugs rather than scrapping the client side preference of many, many players.

I understand that the DEVs goal is to bring it as classic as possible, but to be honest there are much bigger fish to fry than getting rid of Luclin models, especially when it's something that is purely for the players own aesthetic preferences. But as a F2P Emu, not much complaining should be done and we should take it for what it's worth rather than trying to fight it in the end.

FWIW, I don't believe you are in a position to judge the complexity of fixing issues in this extremely complicated piece of software. Maybe it's easy, maybe it's hard. But don't just assume that it's easy to fix bugs. We are at the mercy of an unpaid software dev to decide what is worth his time.

[Roguejm11]

It's a shame they force this upon us blue, when red seems to be the only place where there are "issues".

[Riotgirl]

You know the classic ui (prekunark->velious), you could just press f10, for fullscreen?

http://i53.tinypic.com/14x07fb.jpg

Hi Nilbog,

Whoa .. whoa .. whoa ..

Do you mean to say that instead of this (http://www.troublesbraids.net/old_eq/palor_bb.jpg), I could have played with this (http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=14x07fb&s=7) back mid 2001?

Y'see, I joined Live a trifle tardy during SoV in April 2001, and distinctly remember ye old Classic UI (as well as book-in-the-face). I don't remember using a translucent UI until Luclin (plus multi-chat windows, and global chat channels).

Would we be able to resize the chat windows?

This could change everything!

[dnatabar]

looks like log readers still allowed with new eula.

I'm glad to see the EULA now ingame, as it just puts it as firmly as it always should have been.

even Map overlays, are 100% allowed, as long as they only get data from the log files.
Until they change that, whatever Sirken said in whichever stream he did, is not relevant, as you cannot expect people to watch 80 streams to figure out a tiny addon to a set of rules.

Thanks for the EULA, and regarding the models, who cares... the classic ones arent that bad to be honest :)
(i frankly, find the Luclin ones more ugly than the classic ones, because they look like they were made with the spirit of Final Fantasy 7, as in, Tried to make it so pretty, that it didnt look pretty anymore )

//Dnatabar
Dryse of Homeland Security @ Blue

[Sage Truthbearer]

Here is what the classic UI looked like and how it worked.

http://i.imgur.com/UvAtZYg.jpg

Press F10 once and you get the transparent mode below.

http://i.imgur.com/YjR2IRa.jpg

Press F10 again and you get the screenshot mode below.

http://i.imgur.com/kU0Z7me.jpg

[maskedmelon]

Pras!

I no longer need worry myself that the peeps around me may be viewing my character as a bastardized Luclin hosebeast. Eru femmes really got the short end of the stick with Luclin.

[myriverse]

"Short end?" Eru femmes are the most gorgeous non-furry of all with Luclin.

[FlipisWin]

Eh, it is what it is. Can see the community here for what it really is now. Someone asked about luclin models, and has now turned into people bitching about people bitching......

It was hard enough to get new people to settle with the somewhat more up to date luclin models. When they saw classic models instantly laughed and said no way in hell. We all grew up just like most of you with EQ, and was able to enjoy p99 alongside all of you "shits not classic" ppl with no problem at all.
Is there a mass exodus? nope. Do you care if anyone does leave over this? def not. Just sucks that what we thought was our home for about a year is now rekt for no reason whatsoever. Now our group is split and dieing =(
Just seemed like a pretty dumb thing to enforce, when effort could have been served much better elsewhere.
But hey my join date is after 2010 so that's none of my business.

[SamwiseRed]

I didn't learn about full screen EQ til mid velious. I was like, "holy shit!"

[Swish]

Eh, it is what it is. Can see the community here for what it really is now. Someone asked about luclin models, and has now turned into people bitching about people bitching......

It was hard enough to get new people to settle with the somewhat more up to date luclin models. When they saw classic models instantly laughed and said no way in hell. We all grew up just like most of you with EQ, and was able to enjoy p99 alongside all of you "shits not classic" ppl with no problem at all.
Is there a mass exodus? nope. Do you care if anyone does leave over this? def not. Just sucks that what we thought was our home for about a year is now rekt for no reason whatsoever. Now our group is split and dieing =(
Just seemed like a pretty dumb thing to enforce, when effort could have been served much better elsewhere.
But hey my join date is after 2010 so that's none of my business.

Do (or "did") Luclin models affect NPC models? (MM, cities, etc?)

[Roguejm11]

#BringLuclinModelsBack

[Portasaurus]

Bring back casinos before luclin models

[Swish]

Bring back forum tagging before luclin models and casinos! Made the forums so fun to read :)

[Portasaurus]

swish, what WAS forum tagging? I missed that era, but the subject seems to come up a lot and I'm curious what all the hype is about?

Also, while we're on the subject of dumb changes to the forums, bring back forum editing!

pitchforks.jpg

[Swish]

At the base of the page people could add their own custom tags... meant to identify a thread (in sensible circles) but used for entertainment here. Best of all they were anonymous so people could type in whatever they wanted and not be identified for it.

[Dirtnap]

Bring back forum tagging before luclin models and casinos! Made the forums so fun to read :)

I miss tagging threads with "forum lawyers" and "young doctors".

[Portasaurus]

ahhhh lol

so the "I just played sports" thread, for example, would attract several "fat" themed tags like "fat" "fatty" "doublechin" etc...

[Pringles]

ahhhh lol

so the "I just played sports" thread, for example, would attract several "fat" themed tags like "fat" "fatty" "doublechin" etc...

nailed it.

[kronac34]

DAM!! I like the luclin Models. Why ban it or do away with it ? it dose nothing but aesthetics

[Ele]

DAM!! I like the luclin Models. Why ban it or do away with it ? it dose nothing but aesthetics

Except it allows more functionality/exploits than just aesthetics.

[jarshale]

DAM!! I like the luclin Models. Why ban it or do away with it ? it dose nothing but aesthetics

Why are you blatantly lying about exploits?

[Rivthis]

Except it allows more functionality/exploits than just aesthetics.

SO why not just ban the exploiters?

Because it is easier to just force everyone to have EQLegomen than actually banning people breaking rules...

Went the easy way with this one.

[Bristlebaner]

SO why not just ban the exploiters?

Because it is easier to just force everyone to have EQLegomen than actually banning people breaking rules...

Went the classic way with this one.

[Rivthis]

Yeap, classic like Sony. A few ruined it for the many.

What a shame

[Ele]

Yeap, classic like Sony. A few ruined it for the many.

What a shame

Luclin ruined classic, so there is that.

[Rivthis]

Luclin ruined classic, so there is that.

Opinions are like....

[Ele]

Opinions are like....

already covered that for you on page 8.

opinions are like assholes, so are luclin models

[Danyelle]

(where is hair even loaded from?)

lgequip.s3d and lgequip_amr.s3d load hair and bulk armor/robe/sash components.

[Zaela]

lgequip.s3d and lgequip_amr.s3d load hair and bulk armor/robe/sash components.

Thanks for that. Cramming all the lgequip* data in seems to have fixed everything. Pretty complete workaround now.

Use it while you can: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70648819/downloads/Luclin%20Model%20Side%20Door.zip

Open source and all that (it's all scripts). Just unzip, launch exe, point it at your EQ folder when prompted, select what you want, hit the button and give it a good while to do its work. Only uses files you already have in your EQ folder, and creates a backup of the things it changes.

[jarshale]

Well that didn't last long

[Zaela]

Should ultimately be pretty easy to block the workaround, I think.

[dnatabar]

I'm all for people using the luclin models if they want, but shouldn't you be banned for making and supplying a way to circumvent the rules?
Rules are rules, even if they are stupid to some degree.

[Itap]

You guys are unreal

[Rickson]

You guys are unreal

Agreed. Also, you are going to piss off the staff even more than you already have.

[Bristlebaner]

Ban inc I would say .

[Zaela]

I'm all for people using the luclin models if they want, but shouldn't you be banned for making and supplying a way to circumvent the rules?
Rules are rules, even if they are stupid to some degree.

Dunno! Haven't heard anything from anybody. And although I've heard secondhand rumblings now and then I haven't noticed any clear statement about "no more luclin models from now on" or anything like that. I don't know anything about the supposed exploits of slightly narrower ogres or whatever people mention now and then, either (that much would be easy to do without needing luclin models, in any case).

It's fine if they want to block luclin models, but they'll need to do at least a little bit more to accomplish that. I think that can be done without having to go too far and put checksums on every file or anything crazy. I might have a few ideas about that if someone wanted to ask, but I doubt they'd need any help.

I'd be okay with a ban. I don't play games. But as long as there is something I can do with this otherwise worthless experience with the EQ data formats that doesn't take much effort and that might be of interest to someone, there you go.

If I cared enough to do something bad I'd probably try to be at least a little sneaky about it.

[darchangel89]

I'm all for people using the luclin models if they want, but shouldn't you be banned for making and supplying a way to circumvent the rules?
Rules are rules, even if they are stupid to some degree.

Shouldnt the people who were using the luclin models as an exploit be banned for using the exploit? They were allowed to cheat, and the rest of us got punished for their cheating.

[jcr4990]

Thanks for that. Cramming all the lgequip* data in seems to have fixed everything. Pretty complete workaround now.

Use it while you can: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70648819/downloads/Luclin%20Model%20Side%20Door.zip

Open source and all that (it's all scripts). Just unzip, launch exe, point it at your EQ folder when prompted, select what you want, hit the button and give it a good while to do its work. Only uses files you already have in your EQ folder, and creates a backup of the things it changes.You're a hero my friend. I hope everyone that was glad this got changed cause they enjoy others having their fun ruined are very sad at this moment in time.

[Sage Truthbearer]

I haven't noticed any clear statement about "no more luclin models from now on" or anything like that.

The development staff made it a point to put in a check that requires Luclin models are disabled in order for you to play their server — and your patcher is deliberately circumventing that.

You can agree with it or disagree, but let's not pretend that it's unclear.

[darchangel89]

The development staff made it a point to put in a check that requires Luclin models are disabled in order for you to play their server — and your patcher is deliberately circumventing that.

You can agree with it or disagree, but let's not pretend that it's unclear.

If she gets banned for making the work around, but the people who were exploiting the problem originally dont get banned, then that is complete BS

[Revelation]

Thanks for that. Cramming all the lgequip* data in seems to have fixed everything. Pretty complete workaround now.

Use it while you can: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70648819/downloads/Luclin%20Model%20Side%20Door.zip

Open source and all that (it's all scripts). Just unzip, launch exe, point it at your EQ folder when prompted, select what you want, hit the button and give it a good while to do its work. Only uses files you already have in your EQ folder, and creates a backup of the things it changes.

Can a dev confirm/deny if this is allowed? Don't wanna get banned over silly models which I think should have been left allowed..

[Lorian]

P99 = Classic models
P2002 = Luclin models

If you like Luclin models and tolerate up to 3-boxing and PoK books then P2002 (Al'Kabor) is for you.

[Zeonick]

The development staff made it a point to put in a check that requires Luclin models are disabled in order for you to play their server — and your patcher is deliberately circumventing that.

You can agree with it or disagree, but let's not pretend that it's unclear.

I see what you're saying, but he is right. There was no offical announcement about luclin models not being allowed anymore. From what I gather they just stopped working as there is a check in place. Has there been any official announcement that I've missed?

[kaev]

I see what you're saying, but he is right. There was no offical announcement about luclin models not being allowed anymore. From what I gather they just stopped working as there is a check in place. Has there been any official announcement that I've missed?

You could try reading the p99 EULA that comes up when you start the client now. They explicitly disallow modifying the client, you can have account perma-banned for it. It just might not be worth the risk.

Hard to be more official than that, I think. Not all players read forums, all players launch the game to play.

[Lady Julae]

You could try reading the p99 EULA that comes up when you start the client now. They explicitly disallow modifying the client, you can have account perma-banned for it. It just might not be worth the risk.

Hard to be more official than that, I think. Not all players read forums, all players launch the game to play.

Except for the fact that changing your "own" files is not modifying the client. If that were the case, everyone who plays should be perma-banned because I doubt anyone uses the original UI.

[Rararboker]

Not using the original UI = / = modifying the client.

You guys sure are desperate to make this okay. Though if you read the EULA.....

[dnatabar]

IF Luclin models are "allowed" as it is, so would any other model that can potentionally give an advantage.

Make a model that is tiny, for all races, client side, but since the game relies a lot on client information, it is an advantage.

But modiying game files ( which is exactly what this is ), is against the EULA.
Modiying UI, is technically not allowed either, according to the EULA.
But that doesnt mean it is what they meant.

Although, they hopefully wont do anything about it until the EULA says what they actually intend it too.


Which is also why Map Overlays, GINA and all such are 100% legit.
Even more so, since the EULA explicitly allows it

[SamwiseRed]

EULA for a 15 year old elf simulator. sounds serious.

[dnatabar]

Its as serious as it is for a 0 day old game really, there is no difference in the consequences.

[FlipisWin]

Hi guys, I use map modes, live on ahungry.com, etc etc. But I use classic models so its okay. Cause staring at 3 polygons is what makes it classic. duh

[dnatabar]

To be honest, i'm very confident that there were third party maps with "realtime" location read from log in classic, although, i am also very confident that they werent publicly available until later.

Those that had it, was those that could make it or knew people that could.

[SamwiseRed]

I can appreciate some Luclin models. I think the Iksar Luclin models are 100 times better than the classic models. Ogre and Troll Luclin models are nice if you want to look more fierce but I prefer them to look fat and retarded.

[Axlrose]

Were the Luclin models that allowed individual facial features to be altered? While it was not much, I did like that customization aspect.

[curtischoy]

popcorn.gif

[Lady Julae]

Not using the original UI = / = modifying the client.

You guys sure are desperate to make this okay. Though if you read the EULA.....

How is not using the original UI not modifying the client? Custom UI's were Luclin Era.

Serious, you guys sure are desperate to not make this okay.

[jarshale]

Do you guys really think pointing out other non-classic things will make the devs suddenly change their minds?

[Lady Julae]

Do you guys really think pointing out other non-classic things will make the devs suddenly change their minds?

Nope, but it's fun to read the hypocrisy.

[jarshale]

Nope, but it's fun to read the hypocrisy.

I wouldn't say it's hypocrisy. Some things are just impossible to remove or force with the Titanium client.

[PDX0621]

I can appreciate some Luclin models. I think the Iksar Luclin models are 100 times better than the classic models. Ogre and Troll Luclin models are nice if you want to look more fierce but I prefer them to look fat and retarded.

I could live with the Iksar ones, since my long time main on live pre-Luclin was an Iksar. The only Luclin model I'd be desperate to get back is my Ogre. He's pretty much unplayable to me now haha.

[SamwiseRed]

I wouldn't say it's hypocrisy. Some things are just impossible to remove or force with the Titanium client.

Despite its massive failure, eqclassic had a functioning Trilogy client. I always wondered why the devs stuck with Titanium here. I mean, I am sure the Trilogy client meant a ton more work but was that the only reason? I have no idea how to build an emu server so I genuinely curious.

[Danth]

My understanding--I could be mistaken--was that P99 uses Titanium simply because that's what Eq-Emulator used. I believe this project originally started out as a faster alternative to EQC and immediate availability was more important than adherence to all classic features--many of which were patched in later on. EQC seems to have been run by perfectionists. Since EQC still isn't finished and likely never will be it's safe to say P99's more pragmatic approach was also the correct one. Suits me fine. I've no love for the Velious UI.

Danth

[dnatabar]

Despite its massive failure, eqclassic had a functioning Trilogy client. I always wondered why the devs stuck with Titanium here. I mean, I am sure the Trilogy client meant a ton more work but was that the only reason? I have no idea how to build an emu server so I genuinely curious.

My understanding--I could be mistaken--was that P99 uses Titanium simply because that's what Eq-Emulator used. I believe this project originally started out as a faster alternative to EQC and immediate availability was more important than adherence to all classic features--many of which were patched in later on. EQC seems to have been run by perfectionists. Since EQC still isn't finished and likely never will be it's safe to say P99's more pragmatic approach was also the correct one. Suits me fine. I've no love for the Velious UI.

Danth


Sounds about right, i would imagine that the data between the client and the server have changed A LOT from the trilogy era to how ever many expansions Titanium came with.
Using the base server from EQEmu was definitely a lot faster than starting from scratch, and a wise move.

[kaev]

Nope, but it's fun to read the hypocrisy.

That word, it does not mean what you are pretending that it means.

The "classic is the goal, as close as we can make it" approach of the devs here, and the appreciation of that dedication by forum white knights, is not hypocrisy. The neverending attempts by you and select other whiners to paint it as such is, however, low-grade trolling and petty douchbaggery.

[Sage Truthbearer]

That word, it does not mean what you are pretending that it means.

The "classic is the goal, as close as we can make it" approach of the devs here, and the appreciation of that dedication by forum white knights, is not hypocrisy. The neverending attempts by you and select other whiners to paint it as such is, however, low-grade trolling and petty douchbaggery.

Are you trying to tell me that the remaking of classic is a process — not a one-time event?

Get out of here with your logic.

[Tiewon Shu]

The "classic is the goal, as close as we can make it" approach of the devs here, and the appreciation of that dedication by forum white knights, is not hypocrisy.

So what is it then? What is saying you will do one thing but do another?


The neverending attempts by you and select other whiners to paint it as such is, however, low-grade trolling and petty douchbaggery.

How am I hypocritical? Did I promise a classic server, and yet allow for far more grossly unclassic elements to it? Do I pretend to believe P99 is now a classic server just because it now has forced crappy 1999 graphics?

See, unlike you, I choose to exercise my voice and opinion. You call it whining because my opinion differs from your's, and that's okay ... for a 1st Grader. Be that as it may, you will grow up and realize that educated people voice their concerns.

I am certain if Luclin graphics were forced on you, you would be the first to complain. Feel free to deny this so that you can not look "hypocritical," amongst your kiddie peers.

[Zaela]

The development staff made it a point to put in a check that requires Luclin models are disabled in order for you to play their server — and your patcher is deliberately circumventing that.

You can agree with it or disagree, but let's not pretend that it's unclear.

Didn't they already do that a while back? Might have been before my time. That's why people had to use globalload as a workaround in the first place. Locking the globalload file to the one they provided moves the goalposts a bit, but not very much. Just makes things a little less convenient. Obviously they'd rather people didn't use them, judging from past statements about the intended spirit of the server and all that, but on the whole it's not clear that using luclin models is explicitly worse than it was for the past however many months/years since they were originally "disabled". I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that someone might find that situation somewhat ambiguous.


But I'm bored and can't stand sitting on little bits of potentially useful informations, so I'm gonna give it away: they could make luclin models essentially not worth the bother simply by editing the globalload file slightly.

In each line of the globalload file, there is a block of four boolean-ish fields, each given as "T" or "F". No idea what each one controls, but it appears that the fourth field must be "T" in order for player race animations to be loaded correctly from the file indicated on that line. If the last field is "F", any luclin models loaded from that file will be stuck in the ragdoll position and won't animate at all. A world where all the players are gliding around as unblinking wannabe scarecrows is probably not something anyone would be willing to put up with for long.

As it happens, in the provided globalload file there are only two such lines. One is for the LoY (ish?) player froglok race (globalpcfroglok_chr.s3d). It seems unlikely that this race would actually appear in game, maybe bar some GM fun. Other than that, it's only there to show up on the char creation screen. Could probably remove this file from globalload entirely, or just change the last boolean to "F" to disable its animations.

The second one is even less necessary. globalske_chr2.s3d only contains some animation data for skeletons... luclin skeletons, it would seem. Classic skeletons work fine without this, could be tossed without a second thought.


My understanding--I could be mistaken--was that P99 uses Titanium simply because that's what Eq-Emulator used. I believe this project originally started out as a faster alternative to EQC and immediate availability was more important than adherence to all classic features--many of which were patched in later on. EQC seems to have been run by perfectionists. Since EQC still isn't finished and likely never will be it's safe to say P99's more pragmatic approach was also the correct one. Suits me fine. I've no love for the Velious UI.

Danth

Sounds about right, i would imagine that the data between the client and the server have changed A LOT from the trilogy era to how ever many expansions Titanium came with.
Using the base server from EQEmu was definitely a lot faster than starting from scratch, and a wise move.

Startup time investment and the availability (at the time) of the target client probably would have been the biggest factors, yeah. My understanding is that the trilogy-ish client used a different networking protocol than all the later clients do, which probably been a factor since the later protocol would have been better understood, since it hasn't changed that much in a long time.

There's also the related problem of packet profiling. A lot of communications/packet types are sent by the server to the client but not the other way around, or are initiated by the server and will never be sent by the client unless the server prompts them first. For a lot of reasons it's hard to guess at what packets might have existed, what size they would have been, what information might have been in them, etc, which makes it hard to just throw random packets at the client until something sticks. To get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, you'd have to have some examples of packets sent by the server -- as many different ones as possible, hopefully with some notes of what happened in game when a certain packet was received, and hopefully with some variations to tease out what all the fields in each packet are. Which would have required people to go around sniffing packets and collecting them when the target client was new -- very new, since (eventually) they would randomize things somewhat each patch in a (not too effectively) attempt to make things hard for people working on macroquest and such. (Never been involved in any of this stuff myself, a bunch of people from the eqemu community could probably explain this better and more accurately!)

The tl;dr of that being that the older the client is, the less information there is about different packets it uses and the harder it is to make use of the client's various features -- or even just have the server interact with the client enough to make the game playable at all.

There was an old server I used to be involved with (it's still around, barely) that started up around 2004 and used an ancient (awful) version of the eqemu codebase and a client that was somewhere just before GoD. It has a few more classic points than (uninjected/modified) Titanium, like still using the old, more pixelated and harder to read name tag font, no new water graphics and slightly older skies, complete support for classic spell particles, classic-style merchant windows that would be more friendly to classic-style UIs, etc... but it's hampered by at least two things: a lot of features are missing or incomplete due to lack of information about its packets, and it's nigh impossible to obtain at this point. It's definitely a balancing act; gotta work with what's available if you want to get anywhere.

[darchangel89]

Thats why its easier to just switch to P2002, instead of dealing with the nazi amish ppl here

[jcr4990]

Was there any confirmation by GM/Dev's on whether or not the workaround is allowed?

[Ajia]

I find it silly that the devs would tackle such an inconsequential detail to the game (that is completely up to the choice of the player) when there are long withstanding issues that have still not been addressed. Elephant in the room, everybody, but endurance? How about non-classic elements like meditation allowing us to sit down and view our environments, or websites designed to compile every EC message (maybe we should all sit in ec tunnel like people did in 1999), a user interface that has more functionality than we ever had, or, say, cable internet?!?!? Let's stop pretending this will ever be the truly authentic classic experience. And so if a feature that has less of an effect in gameplay (in this case, literally none whatsoever) than other, deliberately absent, classic elements (that are, to reiterate, up to the player), maybe... Just maybe... Maybe we should just let the player decide?

[Mithicor]

Really if the only legitimate complaint against using Luclin models is that it is being used to exploit pvp, then fix the problem by removing the exploit. Don't just put a band aid on the issue by taking away a customization that doesn't affect other people's game immersion.

[Ele]

Really if the only legitimate complaint against using Luclin models is that it is being used to exploit pvp, then fix the problem by removing the exploit. Don't just put a band aid on the issue by taking away a customization that doesn't affect other people's game immersion.

The exploit/advantages were not limited to PVP situations.

And why would they spend any time to fix LUCLIN models on a classic server, when they can just disable them at this point of the development?

[Fifield]

Really if the only legitimate complaint against using Luclin models is that it is being used to exploit pvp, then fix the problem by removing the exploit. Don't just put a band aid on the issue by taking away a customization that doesn't affect other people's game immersion.

Nope, luclin models GTFO

[Dartmon6511]

... Don't just put a band aid on the issue by taking away a customization that doesn't affect other people's game immersion.

Well said! I can't agree more that for some, the game immersion was engrained by Luclin models. This is essentially a fight for who's immersion is more important. And to all the classic fanboys, many of your own populous have made the switch and loved it and never went back.

[Dragmedown]

I miss them...I want to use them...My armor is too shirt like again.... my yoga greaves suck...

[Dartmon6511]

Rogean has his panties in such a wad that he is just bitter about them. The kicker is that their optional!!!! BAHA! And then hes like "why would i turn them on? they're not classic.". I could make a damn laundry list of things that should be "turned off" then.

[jarshale]

I can't believe you guys are still going on about this.

[Rararboker]

They are making sure the ocean of tears never dries up.

[felixecho]

And, you silly people slam them for wanting something different than you! Hey, it IS eq1999!!!

[maskedmelon]

...and never went back.

... until now.... ^^v

[woulfgar55]

Well that was short lived i just got them to work for me a coupla months ago and i could never get into the game cause of how stupid lookin my iksar was lol.., but when i got the luclin models on my iksr warrior looked like he was bulky instead of flimsy and i started playing much more. I dunno maybe its immersion or maybe its cause i never really got into classic models. Oh well thx for the server guys its was a nice trip down memory lane.

[Jaleth]

Yeah, it still hurts for me too. I play much less, but still occasionally log in because as of now, nothing compares to the overall quality of this server.

[Bristlebaner]

If you like Luclin models I suggest www.everquest.com.

[Swish]

People quitting over Luclin models, I don't get it.

[jcr4990]

Hokkay, found some time where I was bored: for you luclin model lovers out there, a quick and dirty workaround thingy https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70648819/downloads/Luclin%20Model%20Side%20Door.zip

On the one hand, it also works around the internal model dependencies (don't need human for erudite or wood elf for other elf). On the other hand, I hope you like baldness and, if a robe-wearer, pantslessness. External mesh pieces (like the baggy parts of robes) don't seem to get loaded correctly. Dunno if that would be fixable by cramming more data in there (where is hair even loaded from?). No idea if this applies to bulky plate armor or not!

Suitably flawed, but I wouldn't expect this to work for very long in any case.

http://i.imgur.com/qvuWAcX.pngPssst... Luclin models are still available and have not been confirmed to be against the rules by any official source. Anyone claiming you'll get banned or that Luclin models were removed is either dumb or being dishonest. The way I understand it is that they nerfed the previous method to enable Luclin models because of an exploit people were using on Red server to turn Skeleton models into Human models to circumvent people using AoN's to remove their nameplates. Thus changes were made to verify the globalload file when you log into the game. This had the side-effect of disabling Luclin models that were enabled with the previous method. The method quoted above still works for Luclin models and hasn't been forbidden by any official source. Fair warning there are some graphical glitches with these models. Some of the Velious armor doesn't load right. But it works well enough.

All credit to Zaela. Pras on the good work.

[Swish]

I hope this rebellion is crushed and we can all continue to enjoy just classic models.

[maestrom]

Red screwing everything up for everyone.

[BahamutDF]

I just absolutely cannot fathom the whining that surrounds this. It's like some of you completely overlook the reality of the situation:

1) The devs that own and run this server are in charge of its direction, full stop
2) They have been consistently stating for years what that direction is, and have literally never changed from, "we are going to make it as classic as possible."

That's pretty much it. If that doesn't work for you, no problem! Fortunately P2002 is a thing now and choice is always good, right?

[JayN]

pras no more AoN hacks; forced old skeles

[Zaela]

an exploit people were using on Red server to turn Skeleton models into Human models to circumvent people using AoN's to remove their nameplates.

Unless they added some specific checks for skeleton models, you could still do this using the same method as the luclin model workaround, though. With a little extra work, it might be possible to force nameplate to show up on plain classic skeles, too.

[jcr4990]

I think we can all agree that Skeletons not having nameplates was an oversight by the original devs anyway right? I don't think anyone ever intended for AoN's to be a PvP strategy.

[Zaela]

The original devs probably didn't intend a lot of things, but I don't think that's what nostalgia for classic is really about.

Anyway, after thinking about it a little more, I felt like saying some stuff to no one in particular:

The reason locking the text of the global load file doesn't really prevent anything is this:

1. Models are loaded by name (well, by a 3-letter identifier like "HUM" for human male)
2. The client's model loader works in a "first thing loaded with this name wins" fashion -- whatever is loaded with the name "HUM" first blocks anything that tries to load with that name later.
3. None of the data files indicated by the globalload file are checked for integrity.

The result is that you can just shove any model you want into a file that is loaded before the "correct" one, and give it the name of the thing you want to replace. For Luclin models this is a bit limited in that there are only two (pointless) files in globalload that are flagged to allow them to load their extra-special player model animations correctly. NPC models like skeletons don't have this limitation and could be shoved into any file in globalload.

The easiest way to block this without also blocking people from doing harmless texture fixes/replacements would be to extract the .wld files from the .s3d files loaded by globalload and subject them to some integrity checks -- putting them through a few different crc / hash methods would probably be the lowest-effort way while still being fairly resilient against cheesing.

If you were only concerned about player models and skeletons, you could just move global_chr to the top of globalload and only do the integrity checks on its .wld file. This would ensure that all the player models and classic skeles are loaded before anything that could replace them. Edit: I think classic iksars are in a different global#_chr file so you'd need that one too.

[Psionide]

Am I the only one that actually LOVES that classic UI. Shit is just so fucking classic it is awesome.

[Messie]

Am I the only one that actually LOVES that classic UI. Shit is just so fucking classic it is awesome.

There are many of us who never used the Luclin models in the first place. Here we can observe those who did clawing desperately at the final strategies to get their non-classic aesthetic pleasures back. It's quite interesting to read.

Honestly I don't care what graphics people prefer, but I can say that if I was FORCED to use Luclin models, me and 90% (maybe more?) of the community would scream non-classic and the servers integrity would be in question. But since we are forced to NOT use Luclin models, it is very few who do complain about it. Hard to win an argument supporting Luclin models with that thought process. It is simply not classic to have Luclin models on. There is no debate.

So although I feel general sympathy for those who have a different gaming experience, and I wouldn't really mind if they found a way to fix it for individuals, I'm glad the models have been removed from the general public, in order to further progress this CLASSIC server's classic environment.

[fiveeauxfour]

There is no debate

That's debatable.

[Thiefboy777]

I never used Luclin models on p99, but I still can't understand why it bothers some people what the game looks like on someone else's screen.

[Shjade]

That's debatable.

Considering the forums can't even agree on what "classic" means, yes, yes it is.

@Thiefboy: apparently the different models also allowed for some kind of geometry exploits or something.

[Swish]

Am I the only one that actually LOVES that classic UI. Shit is just so fucking classic it is awesome.

[Messie]

Considering the forums can't even agree on what "classic" means, yes, yes it is.

Is this server currently planning on going to Luclin? The answer is no. Therefore, Luclin models should not exist on this server.

And before you try to say, "but who knows, maybe we will go to luclin one day!!!", let me just answer that for you now...


EVEN IF the server was planning on moving onto Luclin, only when we log in and see on the server MOTD - "Welcome to Luclin!" will the luclin models be classic.

[BahamutDF]

That's debatable.

As you don't run the server, no it isn't. Why are people failing to grasp this?

Once again, the goal of this server was always to recreate classic EQ - warts and all. If that doesn't work for you or anyone, there are other alternatives cropping up that I'm sure will provide a more suitable experience for you. I say that completely free of snark or sarcasm, choice is good. Make use of it.

[Shjade]

Is this server currently planning on going to Luclin? The answer is no. Therefore, Luclin models should not exist on this server.

And before you try to say, "but who knows, maybe we will go to luclin one day!!!", let me just answer that for you now...


EVEN IF the server was planning on moving onto Luclin, only when we log in and see on the server MOTD - "Welcome to Luclin!" will the luclin models be classic.

Whether or not Luclin models should/will exist on this server is unrelated to whether or not said models are representative of classic Everquest, which is not defined by a handful of people running an unofficial server.

Personally? I think classic Everquest is EQ before any expansions are added. Others think classic goes as far as Planes of Power. The fact that the people running this server think classic is Vanilla to Velious doesn't make them right or anyone else wrong, it's just their opinion.

Which makes it debatable.

Feel free to stay mad, though.

[Coridan]

I hadn't switched to luclin models yet (I hate the ogres/trolls from Luclin) but I was tempted to for my wood elf just so I could see a damn drum on my bard instead of the dopey stick.

Edit: Wow, just tried the workaround, took one look at the luclin models and went right back. Nice to be able to change hair separately from face and all, but not worth the horrid bodies and armor appearance.

Clearly we just need to implement SOGA models ;)

[Feanol]

Here is what I never understood about Luclin models in a game that contains only the Old World and Kunark/Velious:

The STARK contrast between landscape, monsters, and this new-gen hyper-detailed character running through it.

It's like painting a hot pink square on the driver side door of a blue Mustang. Sure, I get it, you like the color pink. It just looks out of place.

[Dynheart]

Just recently went back to playing Live after 13 years. I mean back in the day, I was all about the new models. Something new to look at.

Now? They are bad. Especially the Iksar's. They went from looking like lizards. Their nuances where lizard-like. From the way they sat, to the way their animations were. Now they look like humanoid dinosaurs. Their animations look even more stiff than the older models.

I dunno. Some of the models had slight improvements, but overall the new models just didn't hit home.

These are just my personal opinions on the models...just getting that out there before someone decides that faces are part of their nutritional diet for the day. :)

[Zaela]

Now? They are bad. Especially the Iksar's. They went from looking like lizards. Their nuances where lizard-like. From the way they sat, to the way their animations were. Now they look like humanoid dinosaurs. Their animations look even more stiff than the older models.

My 14-year-old self would've agreed with this on luclin day 1. Obligatory nostalgia anecdote: I can remember my first reaction being an ambivalent "huh" -- they didn't much look like the old iksars, could have been a brand new race. Then I saw that they lost their unique slithering swimming animation in favor of flailing their arms around like some kind of softskin. I drifted away from EQ pretty soon after that (for the first time -- when a friend tried to bring me back in during PoP, logging in on my same iksar shammy and seeing LOIO deserted did me in again). I don't think I would have argued that luclin models were objectively worse or even especially bad, it just felt disappointing to see the models lose their little bits of character.

But that's just me -- happy to help anyone who likes them as long as it doesn't take much effort to enable them ;)

One thing I will say is that luclin models make much better (...) models for custom weapon models. Classic models don't hold their weapons at very many interesting angles.

http://i.imgur.com/l7sgTku.png http://i.imgur.com/ksFBvUp.png
http://i.imgur.com/aGE1r9Q.png http://i.imgur.com/Rf4xFsc.png
(Disgusted reactions in 3, 2...)

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/aGE1r9Q.png
(Disgusted reactions in 3, 2...)

https://media.giphy.com/media/xZv1drArGozD2/giphy.gif

[BahamutDF]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xZv1drArGozD2/giphy.gif

DING!!!

[Jaleth]

I hadn't switched to luclin models yet (I hate the ogres/trolls from Luclin) but I was tempted to for my wood elf just so I could see a damn drum on my bard instead of the dopey stick.

Edit: Wow, just tried the workaround, took one look at the luclin models and went right back. Nice to be able to change hair separately from face and all, but not worth the horrid bodies and armor appearance.

Clearly we just need to implement SOGA models ;)

Apparently the old saying holds true:
"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."

I absolutely cannot stand the ogre and troll classic models. It was one of the main reasons when I started a SK I would never choose either race, despite their bonuses. Classic models aesthetics in general are horrible to me personally.

But despite that, there is no other game that comes close to what I want in a MMORPG than what we have here. I'll take classic models over no classic EQ.