Bard Page

[ezri]

Dear all,

In the light that Velious is hitting the servers next weekend - I've updated the Bard page to use a Nav Box rather than the "everything on one page" method that's been used until now.

The reason for this was the page was so big it couldn't be edited because the save wasn't working. And without any wiki admins maintaining the site any more (that we can determine) we can't find out why it's crashing.

I'm sorry to the people this change might upset.
It is my belief that we should have an editable bard page - I've exhausted all the other options; but I think it's for the best.

Thanks.

[fiveeauxfour]

change?!?!?

hold me..

im scared....

[zanderklocke]

It's all good except the anime photo with the dog. Bards don't need to feel more wussy than they are.

[ezri]

Fixed the image - did the same on ranger page.

Waiting for the outcry from Cecily... :rolleyes:

[ezri]

No surprises there - page revert by Cecily (reverted)...

Cecily - earlier I tried to add one paragraph to the FAQ and it rejected the page save.
This "one page for everything" has worn itself out - we can't have a page that we can't add stuff to.

If you want to make changes, then add some "blurb" to make each page more reader friendly rather than just reverting 5 hours work.

[Cecily]

Keep my name out of your mouth. Thanks.

[ezri]

The problem with making a reputation for yourself is that your name ends up in everyone's mouth.

[Cecily]

If you wanna hold a grudge against my sole dissenting opinion of thinking your 5 hours of work looks like shit and is probably the reason the page can't be edited anymore, go ahead. I've tried to civil about it, but I can hold a grudge too. Or you can drop the issue and ruin the bard page however you like. Up to you.

[ECDubz]

I really dont like this nav box. One page worked really well for me.

[webrunner5]

If you wanna hold a grudge against my sole dissenting opinion of thinking your 5 hours of work looks like shit and is probably the reason the page can't be edited anymore, go ahead. I've tried to civil about it, but I can hold a grudge too. Or you can drop the issue and ruin the bard page however you like. Up to you.

Well Cecily has a point. If no one can re change it, what the hell. It IS Wiki for a reason. :o

[Cecily]

I really dont like this nav box. One page worked really well for me.

[ezri]

Well Cecily has a point. If no one can re change it, what the hell. It IS Wiki for a reason. :o
I've talked to other editors and this seems to be a problem across the site, not isolated to changes that I've made, there are numerous issues raised in the Technical discussion about the wiki.
Basically when you hit save, it takes you to the next page and gives you a blank screen rather than saving the content.

The class page issue seems to be an issue with the Gearing includes which were compounded with the new spell/song templates. I've had a lot of positive feedback about the new spell format; both on the forums and people messaging me in game so I'm assuming that a lot of people like it. I made them to make the tables look nicer, but also at the request of other editors to make editing spell data easier and the templates are documented so other authors can take over.

I've tried to streamline the way the gearing templates are picked up, but it didn't solve anything; and it's only half done because I didn't want to break the other class pages in the process.
So in the short term my conclusion was that the page was simply over loaded hence the navbox.

The server issues will have to be worked around because the sysadmins of the wiki box seem to be MIA.

I've only split the page up as a last resort because I've exhausted the alternative options - and if I get a lot of feedback from people saying that they really hate it then I'll eat humble pie and revert out the changes.
But it's not as simple as finding a previous version and hitting revert because of other things that people requested I change along the way like the song level cap reduction from lv65 to lv60, spell icon changes etc - things that many people put time into that need to be maintained.

But; safe to answer - the bard and ranger pages *can* be edited in their current format - prior to the navbox change as I stated earlier; I couldn't even add a paragraph into the FAQ section; which is why I added the nav box.

[ezri]

Why don't you split the useless FAQ and gear sections up and leave the useful information (description, creation, skills, spells) on the one page?
I like this suggestion - so a couple of questions spring to mind:
1. How do we link out to the Quests, Gear Sections, FAQ - Just make the nav box smaller - I know a few people said they don't like them; but they do make it simple to navigate backwards and forwards between the sections.
2. Do we keep the new bard/ranger images or get rid?

[ezri]

Do you know what - I give up trying to fix this.
I've rolled out most of the changes that I've made to bard and ranger pages without losing the edits in between (skill updates etc).

[ECDubz]

Do you know what - I give up trying to fix this.
I've rolled out most of the changes that I've made to bard and ranger pages without losing the edits in between (skill updates etc).

so....instead of putting it back the way everyone liked it you completely took out everything you did. Well thats mature. You did have some very nice changes i liked the page up until you made the nav box especially the song information. Im sorry you felt like you had to do this i feel like this was you saying screw the bard community. Thanks

[ezri]

so....instead of putting it back the way everyone liked it you completely took out everything you did.
The way the page was, the way everyone liked it BROKE the page and made it non-editable; which is why I put in the nav box. Since people hated that, I tried to put in the split page idea and that looked worse than the nav box.
We can't have a broken page I took out the spells.

I can't please everyone, I've tried and it's caused me more stress than I get from work. So I'm sorry, but the wiki software is just not up to handling it.

[ECDubz]

The way the page was, the way everyone liked it BROKE the page and made it non-editable; which is why I put in the nav box. Since people hated that, I tried to put in the split page idea and that looked worse than the nav box.
We can't have a broken page I took out the spells.

I can't please everyone, I've tried and it's caused me more stress than I get from work. So I'm sorry, but the wiki software is just not up to handling it.

Im really not sure what you mean by broken. It worked pretty well for me for a while and the fact you edited it with a nav box afterwards and changed it back once you decided it wasnt worth the stress means you could edit it. So I guess my knowledge of coding is just not up to snuff as i would hope so ill leave it to the pros. In any case it was nice while it lasted and i hope we can have it again sometime in the future!

[ezri]

I've added a link in spells/songs for Ranger/Bard as I originally had it on the Ranger page

Alternative Spell List -> Ranger/Spells
Alternative Song List -> Bard/Songs

I guess this is an appropriate compromise.

I just hope that those #lsth tags fix themselves overnight; I'm not sure how those includes work they are pretty sketchy.

Apologies for my despair - once I got to the end of making the two-page-split and it looked awful I was really at the end of my tether.

[TarukShmaruk]

Do you know what - I give up trying to fix this.
I've rolled out most of the changes that I've made to bard and ranger pages without losing the edits in between (skill updates etc).

I liked your updates

Why are you listening to Cecily? He's a bitter troll who shits on everything because his life is unhappy. Probably fatbromyalgia.

[ECDubz]

Honestly though, I would rather have the nav box than to have it the old way. If i have to deal with the nav box to have the song info id gladly trade it back.

[Cecily]

I liked your updates

Why are you listening to Cecily? He's a bitter troll who shits on everything because his life is unhappy. Probably fatbromyalgia.
It's not RnF. I had an unpopular opinion on aesthetics and got bashed pretty hard for it by quite a few very angry simple-minded people. It doesn't mean someone is trolling just because that person doesn't agree with you. I'm only here because I didn't appreciate Ezri calling me out for having a dissenting opinion on the ranger page, not because I care, at all, about how the bard page looks.

[TarukShmaruk]

Your opinions are shitty and the Ranger page looks great.

[Cecily]

It's not RnF... Angry simple-minded people.

[TarukShmaruk]

Stop crying when you get called out. You come here and be a smarmy little bitch towards someone elses hard work while simultaneously contributing nothing of value.

What did you expect?

[kaev]

Your opinions are [your own] and the Ranger page looks great [to me].
ftfy. Stop being a douche here. Go rant about Cecily's aesthetic sensibilities on RnF if they bother you that much.


Personally I think the aesthetics of both versions are nothing to get excited about. Tempest in a teapot. I do appreciate that there are people who spend time trying to make sure the info presented is accurate and easily accessible. I do not mind if the people doing this wish to put their own stamp on the page's appearance.

[ezri]

I'm getting frustrated with those {{#lsth:}} includes, they seem to be really temperamental whether they actually include the content or not, on the preview it looks fine then when you press save it seems to be 50/50 whether the content is included or you get a link to the content.

Okay - so I think my plan will be:
1. Finish the redesign and implementation of the gearing guides - making the pages per class rather than per tier so they can be included in class pages without #lsth:
2. Do the same with the quest guides.
3. Finish making the new spell lists for all classes and adding them to class pages as alternative spell links; and once that's done see where we end up.