120k SK Twink

[loneless999]

if you had 120k to twink an SK what would you buy for each slot

troll or ogre have not decided yet

[Tecmos Deception]

Fungi, fbss, deathbringer's rod, 5/55 rings, hooded black cloak, and whatever you see for sale in EC for the other slots that's less than 1k and has AC, HP, and/or MR on it. Circlet of shadows.

Probably save enough for either jboots (or sow pots until you can camp your own jboots).


Pretty sure you can do that for under 120k.

[Swish]

ebon mace
atramentous shield
tanky armor (some darkforge is nice, some bloodforge is nice)
circlet of shadow

maybe some int JC'd items if you're going ogre?

My overall advice would be not to blow 120k on a SK twink, you do fine as a tank with snap aggro on disease cloud / shadow vortex.

If you want to solo, it's probably better to spend the money getting the gear above and then getting PL'ed :(

120k on a twink....jesus.

[Swish]

PS - the hybrid penalty doesn't disappear on launch night, if this is a "for Velious" thing.

[Mojo24]

Fungi, hiero, junk items the rest of the way.

[Tecmos Deception]

If you have more, two WC caps and some root nets, and save a few k more for when you hit 50 and need to buy puppet string charges for an OT hammer.

Ebon mace + atramentous shield is a much better weapon set than deathbringer rod, but much more expensive.

I don't know prices too exactly to know what you can manage on 120k.

[Danth]

Hey, another person who'll put a bunch of nice things on his twink tank and probably just quit by the low 50's anyway. SK's are probably the single most common class I see being stripped and parted out in East Commons. If you don't like a hybrid tank for 20K, you aren't going to like it for 120K.

If you're determined to repeat the same mistake so many other folks have made, you'll want a fungi and as much haste as you can squeeze out, though you'll probably have to tolerate a Flowing Black Silk Sash or Sash of the Dragonborn just due to budget limits. Those two things will actually take up the majority of your budget. Ebon mace plus Atramentous shield are good suggestions for weapons. You want a Circlet of Shadow, and at that budget there's no reason not to get Jboots. Depending on what race you are, cultural armor may be looking at. Other than that, once you have the specific items mentioned just fill out the rest of the slots with the usual type of equipment (Darkforge, Blood Ember, etc) You might be able to snag a Blood Ember BP for 20K or so and stay within your budget, although I wouldn't suggest it--if you want the buff, get a Stave of Shielding for 1/10 the cost.

EDIT: Actually there IS a reason not to get Jboots. When you get bored of the SK and decide to sell off its stuff you can't sell them. Perhaps stick to Sow potions until you reach level 55 minimum.

Danth

[Mojo24]

SK's are probably the single most common class I see being stripped and parted out in East Commons

Thats probably because people realize that they are 100% useless endgame. At least for now.

I love SKs and mained one on live but yeah, warrior all the way.

[Tecmos Deception]

Nothing is useless endgame. Some things are a better fit in a raid than others, but no one will tell a SK played by a friend/guildie "sorry bro, roll a warrior/rogue/cleric if you want to come on raids with us."

[webrunner5]

120K on a Tank is just chump change to be honest. That is a Fungi and not even a CoF which you NEED when you have a Fungi to counteract the - Dex, Agi. :eek:

So go bigger or go home as they say. :p In a group no one cares what you have other than Raids. And a SK is not going to be the MT in one anyways. Solo well yeah, good stuff helps, but 50 to 60 solo on a SK is worse than a sharp stick in the eye, I don't care what gear you have. :(

Great gear is WAY overrated to great player skill on here. Get smarter not richer, but you seem to get richer the smarter you are for some odd reason,phht.

[Tecmos Deception]

I don't know, web. How much skill do you need on a leveling+grouping SK to make up for a fungi?

[zanderklocke]

Last week, I decided I was going to play EQ again as a SK and spent 200K on items. The next day, I decided I didn't really want to make the commitment. I sold back the items except for a CoF and fungi and ended up probably losing like 15K in value.

Oops.

[Tecmos Deception]

Think of it as charity, Zanderr!

SKs are fun... but you definitely can't be a person who needs to look at their xp bar after every kill, or you'll never last to level through 45 let alone 59.

[rubicaant]

Fungi tunic. 67k
Sash of the Dragonborn 9k
Ebon Mace 6k
Atramentous shield 2.5k
Deathbringer's Rod .5k
Earring of Essence 4k
Crested Spauldors?
Circlet of Shadow 3-5k
Black Sapphire Electrum Earring 2k
Black Sapphire platinum necklace 2.3k
Plat Fire Wedding rings .5k
Fill up the rest of the slots with Darkforge or whatever.

[Cecily]

I don't know, web. How much skill do you need on a leveling+grouping SK to make up for a fungi?

Target npc. Cast disease cloud. Press auto attack.

[Tecmos Deception]

Target npc. Cast disease cloud. Press auto attack.

Yeah, that was my point. I don't know how someone could argue a SK's skill is more important than being a 120k twink... at least not until a level when they are dealing with difficult pulls.

[Cecily]

120k or 2k worth of gear, SKs of equal level are going to more or less perform the same in a group. 5 star agro, 3 star tanking, 5 star resentment from group mates over exp penalty. I'd say Fungi and a decent weapon. Some haste. HF soloing.

[Itap]

I think most SK twinks quit at 54 or even before that. That might change with the removal of class penalties

[Tecmos Deception]

120k or 2k worth of gear, SKs of equal level are going to more or less perform the same in a group.

Bull shit.

15 hp regen per tick that stacks with buffs is enormous from 1-30, huge from 30-40, and still pretty significant 40+ especially depending on the group makeup. The rest of the gear isn't as big of a deal though, true.

[Daldaen]

Last week, I decided I was going to play EQ again as a SK and spent 200K on items. The next day, I decided I didn't really want to make the commitment. I sold back the items except for a CoF and fungi and ended up probably losing like 15K in value.

Oops.

There really is almost never any reason to dump 200k on a twink.

When you do it should be CoF and Fungi and those are extremely interchangeable between twink classes.

I always lol at the people who twink their monks with tranix crowns and RBGs when they already have a CoF.

Weapon, Fungi, Haste. After that spend maybe 500-1k a piece on gear, not 25-30k BS.

[Cecily]

We're not arguing whether or not a fungi is good. But when it comes down to it, knights are just spell casters with a moderately high HP pool and access to high AC stuff. You can't throw items on a spell caster to make them better. A SK with enough support can do his or her role naked and unarmed. You probably wouldn't notice much of a DPS drop.

So when I say it doesn't matter what you put on your SK, I mean it. Nice things are nice to have, but the only (very) good thing about this class is a 10 mana spell.
That doesn't take much gear.

[Daldaen]

You assume the SK is grouping.

Grouping SK you're largely right. Soloing though, of course you're wrong. Fungi, Haste and Good weapon change how soloing a melee goes, and greatly increases your speed/efficiency.

Even grouping though, having a fungi changes how effective you are in a group. Especially pre-30s.

[Cecily]

I'd say Fungi and a decent weapon. Some haste. HF soloing.

I don't think we disagree, and I am largely referring to grouping. That's where a SK shines. Not a very good solo class.

[Danth]

Target npc. Cast disease cloud. Press auto attack.

This level of mediocrity will just about get a Shadow Knight twink to the 50-54 range where most of them get bored and quit.

--------------------------------

Fungi tunics are handy even at high levels on a class that can feign. It's nice being able to recover life when you're feigned somewhere for fifteen minutes. They can always be resold, usually for not much loss, so purchasing one if budget permits makes good sense. Haste and a decent weapon are also desirable on a class that maintains a tolerable degree of solo capability (by melee standards) even at high levels. Mid-range armor will suffice for leveling because it doesn't matter enough in groups when monsters only hit for 60 or 70.

That being said, don't make an SK twink. The class doesn't start to shine until past the levels where twink gear makes a player feel like a god among men. If you want to make a fun mindless twink, make something like a Rogue or Warrior or Monk instead.

Danth

[Cecily]

I really don't think SK is much more cerebral than a pure melee.

[Danth]

Then odds are you're bad at it. That's okay--no shame. Not every class clicks for every player. I stink on healers for example.

Which means your opinion has genuine value--and I do not mean that as sarcasm. Most Shadow Knight twinks are pretty mediocre. That's exactly why so many of them peter out and quit in the high 40's or low 50's. Twink gear can't carry a player past that point.

Danth

[Tecmos Deception]

Cecily, regarding the value of a fungi on the tank to a group's leveling speed, think of it this way: a fungi on the tank vs not is like clarity on the healer vs not. (15 hp per tick, even sup heal is barely over 2:1 efficient and its worst at lower levels, c is 7 mana per tick)

If you think a group doesn't get significantly better xp when the healer has c than not, you just haven't been paying close enough attention! :p

[Cecily]

I actually don't play one, because looking at their skill set they just aren't versatile enough. All they really are is a low dps tank.

Efficient snap agro spells. That's their only selling point. The taps are expensive and don't heal for much. Snare and fear is all they have for crowd control. The higher end dots are impressive but completely unsustainable on a hybrid's mana pool. Feign death. Low level pet.

[Tecmos Deception]

Yeah, SK tools always struck me as novelty+convenience more than highly effective (apart from the threat generation).

Might be me just being a bad SK though. My VERY twinked SK only got to 45 I think.

SKs are a bit like wizards though probably. On a fresh server or normal timeline where all melee dps is way, way lower, a shitty pet and the ability to burst dps by burning mana would be pretty sweet.

[Cecily]

I'm genuinely curious how the super good SKs play differently. Being a good tank in a group scenario is about target selection and positioning. It has nothing to do with skill sets and it's equally relevant to warriors and knights. And actually does require quite a bit of focus and thinking.

[Tecmos Deception]

Pulling is probably the main way a SK can set himself apart.

Besides that I assume it's mostly the little things that add up together. DC aggro is largely wasted if you use it for the initial aggro, due to initial aggro cap. Don't just spam DC, cycle it with AC tap for more threat but at higher mana cost. SKs have some cool other spells too. Pets add DPS if you aren't pulling even if they are a bit more work to manage so they don't get killed by 2 ripostes or whatever. Looks like this CH is cutting it close? Lifetaps!

Compared to someone who just picks a target that isn't CCed and starts spamming DC, while maybe remembering to face so the magician pet can backstab without the magician having to miss med ticks to reposition his pet. Etc.

[Danth]

I'm genuinely curious how the super good SKs play differently. Being a good tank in a group scenario is about target selection and positioning. It has nothing to do with skill sets and it's equally relevant to warriors and knights. And actually does require quite a bit of focus and thinking.

Situation awareness is indeed the most important part of the tank job. On the other hand, using all available tools also counts, and makes the difference between a mediocre tank and a good one. I don't know if I'm "super good," but I'm competent, at least. I won't write a comprehensive guide--it's beyond the scope of this thread--but I'll list a few considerations.

--Beyond snap aggro, sustained hate generation on hybrid tanks is both very high and quite consistent. Shamans can spam slow as fast as cooldown allows with no fear of death. However, disease cloud has enough of a cooldown that it, alone, cannot always achieve this.

--Unlike a Warrior, the SK (and Paladin) can build decent aggro on mezzed mobs without breaking mez. Rooted mobs too for that matter. Disease cloud won't do that; it breaks mez and also can break root.

--The SK is the only proper tank with some AE spells. While not high-aggro, it'll outaggro heals and it's invaluable for getting 4 or 5 things on you at the start of a multi-pull.

--If you have a little space to work, you have a short duration fear and quite a good snare: very good for shutting down those complete healing and gating monsters. You'd be surprised how many dungeons allow use of this tactic in perfect safety.

--You have dispell and can pull with it if you want. Nice for getting rid of annoying damage shields in particular.

--Feign is obvious. The Shadow Knight can double as a tolerably decent puller if need be, and sometimes does so even in raids for smaller guilds which don't have brigades of Monks. It's the only tank type with this capability.

--Between invis, feign, fear, and taps, you can sneak around most areas, including most dungeons. Because of this my SK gets more grouping opportunities, especially at desired camps (crypt, etc), than my other tanks ever got. Surprisingly many groups don't bother to clear their tanks down.

--Spell aggro means that the Shaman can keep Torpor running on you without significantly nerfing your threat generation. Heck against heavy-hitters you don't need to turn on attack at all and hence not suck up ripostes. Because of this you will often take less damage against heavy-hitters than a hasted dual-wielding Warrior who isn't in /defensive.

-------------------------------

You're right about the mana costs. One of the nuisances of the Shadow Knight is that it uses necromancer spells that are tuned around the assumption of having mana regen from Lich. Clarity makes a massive difference for the grouping Shadow Knight, far moreso than Haste. The lifetaps get about 50% better in Velious but for now they're a bit weak.

I'll stop there. This post is already long and should suffice for illustrating that there's more to the class than Disease Cloud spam. If you disagree about the importance of anything I mentioned, that's your right. My purpose is not to debate you, but rather to illustrate some options for players who value such things. Not everyone will--and not everyone should play hybrid tanks. I like my Shadow Knight just fine and the class gives good service for everything I ask of it.

Danth

[Daldaen]

I'm genuinely curious how the super good SKs play differently. Being a good tank in a group scenario is about target selection and positioning. It has nothing to do with skill sets and it's equally relevant to warriors and knights. And actually does require quite a bit of focus and thinking.

Splitting, non-DMG aggroing mezzed targets to save enchanters, snap aggro on adds/charm breaks/mobs as soon as they hit camp (reaction time being the "skill" part), healing self with lifetaps, HT used as a high aggro ability (like an SK Mallet dump), snare to prevent runners, positioning mobs properly.

Those would be the things I look for on a raiding SK.

[Cecily]

Not much different than how I play ranger. Wasn't aware of that PB debuff though. Actually jealous of that.

[webrunner5]

Splitting, non-DMG aggroing mezzed targets to save enchanters, snap aggro on adds/charm breaks/mobs as soon as they hit camp (reaction time being the "skill" part), healing self with lifetaps, HT used as a high aggro ability (like an SK Mallet dump), snare to prevent runners, positioning mobs properly.

Those would be the things I look for on a raiding SK.

Sounds like he is the Skilled SK player I was talking about. :p

And Tec, the Fungi IS a big help in a group, but if it has a Cleric in it, their healing spells are tons more mana efficient than the other 2 healing classes. So not as big of deal to them. A Druid well yes.

But since a lot of SK's Tank and pull, they do take a beating for sure a lot more than say a Warrior, not only probably not pulling often, but with the Warrior AC probably being higher at equal levels, just better AC gear for them if you can afford it, and damage mitigation over the top compared to a SK. :cool:

[Roguejm11]

Situation awareness is indeed the most important part of the tank job. On the other hand, using all available tools also counts, and makes the difference between a mediocre tank and a good one. I don't know if I'm "super good," but I'm competent, at least. I won't write a comprehensive guide--it's beyond the scope of this thread--but I'll list a few considerations.

--Beyond snap aggro, sustained hate generation on hybrid tanks is both very high and quite consistent. Shamans can spam slow as fast as cooldown allows with no fear of death. However, disease cloud has enough of a cooldown that it, alone, cannot always achieve this.

--Unlike a Warrior, the SK (and Paladin) can build decent aggro on mezzed mobs without breaking mez. Rooted mobs too for that matter. Disease cloud won't do that; it breaks mez and also can break root.

--The SK is the only proper tank with some AE spells. While not high-aggro, it'll outaggro heals and it's invaluable for getting 4 or 5 things on you at the start of a multi-pull.

--If you have a little space to work, you have a short duration fear and quite a good snare: very good for shutting down those complete healing and gating monsters. You'd be surprised how many dungeons allow use of this tactic in perfect safety.

--You have dispell and can pull with it if you want. Nice for getting rid of annoying damage shields in particular.

--Feign is obvious. The Shadow Knight can double as a tolerably decent puller if need be, and sometimes does so even in raids for smaller guilds which don't have brigades of Monks. It's the only tank type with this capability.

--Between invis, feign, fear, and taps, you can sneak around most areas, including most dungeons. Because of this my SK gets more grouping opportunities, especially at desired camps (crypt, etc), than my other tanks ever got. Surprisingly many groups don't bother to clear their tanks down.

--Spell aggro means that the Shaman can keep Torpor running on you without significantly nerfing your threat generation. Heck against heavy-hitters you don't need to turn on attack at all and hence not suck up ripostes. Because of this you will often take less damage against heavy-hitters than a hasted dual-wielding Warrior who isn't in /defensive.

-------------------------------

You're right about the mana costs. One of the nuisances of the Shadow Knight is that it uses necromancer spells that are tuned around the assumption of having mana regen from Lich. Clarity makes a massive difference for the grouping Shadow Knight, far moreso than Haste. The lifetaps get about 50% better in Velious but for now they're a bit weak.

I'll stop there. This post is already long and should suffice for illustrating that there's more to the class than Disease Cloud spam. If you disagree about the importance of anything I mentioned, that's your right. My purpose is not to debate you, but rather to illustrate some options for players who value such things. Not everyone will--and not everyone should play hybrid tanks. I like my Shadow Knight just fine and the class gives good service for everything I ask of it.

Danth

+1

[ctre]

Actually the Pal/SK class will be much more needed in Velious, (off tanking boss mob adds with there ability to snap agro).
Right now, for raids they are of no real value.
Right now in groups EG: sebilis groups, they are great, (however I rather a pally).

[Raev]

If you have a little space to work, you have a short duration fear and quite a good snare: very good for shutting down those complete healing and gating monsters. You'd be surprised how many dungeons allow use of this tactic in perfect safety.

This is one of the things I always did on my bard. It worked really well except for the times when I feared my mezzed mobs :D But I wonder how well it would work at 60; most stuff will be level immune.

You have dispell and can pull with it if you want. Nice for getting rid of annoying damage shields in particular.

I think dispell is huge but its the kind of thing that people need to coordinate on. But its hard for me to see what could be better than slamming incoming mobs with 4x Nullify Magics from basically every caster. Shaman mobs will have sow, haste, and tali. Wizards will have shielding and ds. Clerics will cast both heroism and symbol. Stripping all of that nonsense for a few hundred mana seems like a huge win.

Feign is obvious. The Shadow Knight can double as a tolerably decent puller if need be, and sometimes does so even in raids for smaller guilds which don't have brigades of Monks. It's the only tank type with this capability.
I don't understand why SKs (and Necros) never pull. Maybe it's just the surplus of monks, but Necros seem straight up fantastic at it, and SKs should be decent. Heck, just summon your shitty little pet and send it in, then FD around the corner and let your group mates tag.

One of the nuisances of the Shadow Knight is that it uses necromancer spells that are tuned around the assumption of having mana regen from Lich.
I never thought about it this way, but that makes a lot of sense.

[Swish]

I don't understand why SKs (and Necros) never pull. Maybe it's just the surplus of monks, but Necros seem straight up fantastic at it, and SKs should be decent. Heck, just summon your shitty little pet and send it in, then FD around the corner and let your group mates tag.


The reset mechanics make it more difficult, its not like monks who can get up, sneak and peel one easily. You need to rely on a sneaking rogue/etc to peel for you, and its a risky play getting back up until the rest return to their spot with your cooldown.

If the SK is tanking as well, that's not efficient but is handy if the puller is on a break or can't split them alone.

Pulling on SKs/necros used to be a lot easier here from memory.

[Roguejm11]

It's not mana efficient at all, but if you have an enchanter in the group, Clarity, such as in KC or Seb, I can almost pull non-stop as well as tank.

[captnamazing]

ebon mace
120k on a twink....jesus.

fungi- 60k
cof - 90k

lol

[Swish]

fungi- 60k
cof - 90k

lol

You don't need either to succeed in a group (SK dps isn't great, I've got an ebon mace and the 41% haste belt from sky and I'm doing a small percentage of what a monk/rogue does).

Spending that much for the option to solo inefficiently... I don't get it :/

If you want to drop big plat, do it on a monk :p

[captnamazing]

Yeah, not what I'd do for an sk, my point was more "look at how easy it is to be a high value twink "

At one point I had a twiNk ranger with cof, fungi, woodsmans staff, etc. That's when i knew I needed a break .

[fishingme]

I've seen multiple CoFs going for 55k lately.

[fishingme]

There really is almost never any reason to dump 200k on a twink.

When you do it should be CoF and Fungi and those are extremely interchangeable between twink classes.

I always lol at the people who twink their monks with tranix crowns and RBGs when they already have a CoF.

Weapon, Fungi, Haste. After that spend maybe 500-1k a piece on gear, not 25-30k BS.

Um, you're thinking too much about haste and not enough about stats. RBG has some really really good stats on it. If I had the platinum to buy CoF/RBG, I would, not because of the haste of the RBG but because of the stats it has. I can't think of a better bought belt for stats than RBG.

[Swish]

^^ he's right...Dal getting his nose into things he doesn't know much about (again)

[Sage Truthbearer]

If you ask me, when it comes to twinking a new melee character there's really only three things are going to make a significant and noticeable difference — a haste item, a fungi, and a good weapon.

Those are "the big 3."

[fishingme]

If you ask me, when it comes to twinking a new melee character there's really only three things are going to make a significant and noticeable difference — a haste item, a fungi, and a good weapon.

Those are "the big 3."

This is true for the most part. But maxing stats makes a large difference if you've ever maxed stats on a twink before. I mean, why do you see so many ogre SKs around instead of darkelves?

[Destron]

This is true for the most part. But maxing stats makes a large difference if you've ever maxed stats on a twink before. I mean, why do you see so many ogre SKs around instead of darkelves?

Frontal Stun Immunity.

[justin2090]

Fungi+Haste+Good Weapon all you need for melee

Stats are so overrated

[fishingme]

Frontal Stun Immunity.

That's certainly part of it. But it's the difference for most people between spending 300k to twink a char for max stats and 30-40k to twink one for max stats.

[webrunner5]

Fungi+Haste+Good Weapon all you need for melee

Stats are so overrated

With a Good Shaman in it it is. :p

It is not going to be very hard for anyone with Velious gear, Melee or Casters, to get some pretty good stats down the road.

There is some scary good gear in Velious compared to what we had before, other than a few great items.. :)

[winter888]

Thats probably because people realize that they are 100% useless endgame. At least for now.

I love SKs and mained one on live but yeah, warrior all the way.

Im sure they are not.

When velious open ,i often tank in raid, not for bosses, but for trash clearing on the way to boss.

Best tank for this is pal/sk, which can snag agro fast and from ranges.

we dont need hammers/strings to build intial agro. we call assist fast as hell. we improve the effeciency of entire raid encounters.

that's sk ,you gonna be proud of it and love that feeling.

but you need to be high enough for this ,yea 60ish the best. and put all stat to sta/hp, choose gears for tank type.

[Hijiri]

50 to 60 solo on a SK is worse than a sharp stick in the eye, I don't care what gear you have. :(


^ dis times one billion

Troll sk solo to mid 50s and I ended up having to buy plat years ago on live just to be able to solo things other classes could kill in 30 seconds prior to the xp hybrid relief

[fishingme]

^ dis times one billion

Troll sk solo to mid 50s and I ended up having to buy plat years ago on live just to be able to solo things other classes could kill in 30 seconds prior to the xp hybrid relief

I got my super twink SK to 27 before i had enough of him. They're fun to play but at the same time I think a paladin might be a little more fun. LoH doesn't get resisted =)