Why YT is Bad for the Server

[easy_lee]

First off, I get why the administration created YT. The server isn't big and PvP isn't as common as it should be. In theory, letting everyone know when someone gets killed makes players feel like part of an active PvP server and notifies people where the PvP is happening.

But YT is self-defeating. Here's why:

If everyone knows when you die, you have extra incentive to avoid PvP.
Encourages trash talk in OOC.
Enables public death and kill tracking via the leaderboard, which:

Gives people more incentive to avoid PvP.
Encourages gank-style play.
Encourages players to pick classes which can get kills instead of support classes.
Gives the most worthless human beings on this server an overinflated ego.

It doesn't show PvP, only kills, meaning the enchanter who stunned the target and enabled the kill, the cleric who healed his friend, and the bard who helped them catch the target get no credit.
It reveals your location to the server, not something you necessarily want.
It isn't even classic.


YT led to less PvP, more plugging, more running, more trash talk, and more solo gankers. Why do we still have this?

[Fame]

This is going to work!

[SamwiseRed]

Personally, I love YT but I understand the OP's concern. As with most changes, I tend to be conservative so I think changing it to 46+ only is a good start before outright removing it completely.

[Swish]

http://media.giphy.com/media/gDrAsxkrYnBKw/giphy.gif

[Recycled Children]

420 blaze it

[SamwiseRed]

420 blaze it

reported

[Pumped]

only people like andis want pvp , and they basically bugged staff about it for over a year until they got it

back then almost no one was playing and they didnt care.

[El Camacho]

changing it to 46+ only is a good start before outright removing it completely.

Doesn't affect me much either way, but this is pretty solid reasoning.

Most of the high level talk about PvP is about contesting over mobs, so 46+ makes sense in that regard.

The pvp sub-54 is a mixed bag of grief, sniping and a few good fights.

[Fame]

back then almost no one was playing and they didnt care.

this explains a lot about the server

[Ragnaros]

http://media.giphy.com/media/gDrAsxkrYnBKw/giphy.gif

God i fucking love your sig

[Colgate]

disable pvp

[Lady Julae]

If everyone knows when you die, you have extra incentive to avoid PvP.
Point noted... but...



Encourages trash talk in OOC.
Enables public death and kill tracking via the leaderboard, which:
Encourages gank-style play.
Encourages players to pick classes which can get kills instead of support classes.
Gives the most worthless human beings on this server an overinflated ego.
It reveals your location to the server, not something you necessarily want.


It sounds to me YT encourages PvP rather than hinders it, it's just not the kind of PvP you personally are looking for in an MMO.

[Guido]

terrible thread

there is a blue button

enjoy it

[easy_lee]

terrible thread

there is a blue button

enjoy it

These replies are always great. Say anything negative about the server, even if you're interested in more PvP, and some short bus rider who drinks his own shit through a straw (assumption I made based on poster's grammar) says go back to blue...

[Zade]

Naw

[easy_lee]

Naw

Didn't support your post with any evidence or reasoning. I'll assume it's because none exists. You just wanted to be contrary.

BTW, no YT is actually easier on the server and administration than keeping it.

[Guido]

don't know who you are, don't care, you seem new.

YT on a pvp server is crucial no matter how you look at it. Whether its for gloat factor or pvp awareness. It has done more positive to the server than any negative. On a more important note it alerts the community where the pvp is taking place, so it encourages pvp.

This is a 15+ year old game. The majority of this player base is age 20-36+. If you cant handle a public outing of a pvp death, well simply put, this server is not for you. There is a blue option for people like you.

[easy_lee]

don't know who you are, don't care, you seem new.

YT on a pvp server is crucial no matter how you look at it. Whether its for gloat factor or pvp awareness. It has done more positive to the server than any negative. On a more important note it alerts the community where the pvp is taking place, so it encourages pvp.

This is a 15+ year old game. The majority of this player base is age 20-36+. If you cant handle a public outing of a pvp death, well simply put, this server is not for you. There is a blue option for people like you.

Didn't read my post, did you? I'm assuming you didn't, because everything you said is fucking wrong and ignores everything I said.

I've been here three years longer than you. I know what I'm talking about. You don't.

[Guido]

Been on server since day 1, never took a break longer than few weeks

played multiple boxes before this so ya, highly doubt you been on this server longer than me

but nice try

and I read every point you made, and pretty sure like the rest of this community, laughed out loud.

have a great day

[easy_lee]

Been on server since day 1, never took a break longer than a month

played multiple boxes before this so ya, highly doubt you been on this server longer than me

but nice try

and I read every point you made, and pretty sure like the rest of this community, laughed out loud.

have a great day

Your join date is January 2015 and you've made over 400 posts. You're a forum warrior and don't know shit. You're also a liar, unless your other forum accounts got banned for fucking up too many times. For all of the above reasons, your opinion is worthless.

[Guido]

Your join date is January 2015 and you've made over 400 posts. You're a forum warrior and don't know shit. You're also a liar, unless your other forum accounts got banned for fucking up too many times. For all of the above reasons, your opinion is worthless.

thanks for confirming how new you are to this server

as the red community loves to say



LATER NERD

[Malevz]

First off, I get why the administration created YT. The server isn't big and PvP isn't as common as it should be. In theory, letting everyone know when someone gets killed makes players feel like part of an active PvP server and notifies people where the PvP is happening.

That's not really the case. YT was created during a time when Nihilum dominated the server, and Azrael (whoever they were then) was seeing...0 raid mobs I think? There was a long campaign of complaining to add yellow text by them on the boards, and eventually it was added.

The reason was because killing mid 50's alts in KC for YT gave them a reason to keep playing, and feel like they had accomplished something. You know beyond 3 boxing fungi king, and posting on message boards.

[Awwalike]

sounds like someone mad about dying

[Genedin]

I haven't logged in since the leader board was reset.

[Ragnaros]

I haven't logged in since the leader board was reset.

Thats not true.
/wave
(;

[Qtip]

I agree. YT shouldnt be removed. Lock thread.

[heartbrand]

summary of this manifesto?

Sure, Mexican's are rapists.

[pharmakos]

get rid of global OOC and YT and i might come back to red

[GradnerLives]

summary of this manifesto?

TL;DR: Keep YT, Calm yr beards.

[Sektor]

need cliff notes on this one, hehe.

[pgerman]

The only thing that really makes everquest fun, is that you know and "hate" your enemy.

The reason it is so fun to get a kill, is because the other team can create this illusion.


Other MMOs lack this, by not allowing peoples more sinister side to come out, you have a bland, very simple, and boring game for the most part.


I personally have fun with an "everything goes " policy , its very easy to ignore people in game, and on forums as well.

One simple click.

I've joked around with trying to rule lawyer people to death, but it really is a waste of time. People I dont like. I ignore. There is no need for rules on speech.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

In the past, I didn't like YT. I don't have any problems with it now, though, and view it as a tool. Sure, some people epeen off it, but they'd find another way.

[Madbad]

In the past, I didn't like YT. I don't have any problems with it now, though, and view it as a tool. Sure, some people epeen off it, but they'd find another way.

ftfy

[Cid]

Easy, your points were well thought out and in many ways valid, but YT is not the problem really. It's a matter of cause and effect, and what you are lobbying to remove is just the effect and not the cause. Hell, the leaderboards have probably done more of the damage you mentioned than YT ever could on its own.
The sad truth is that the cause is the people that play here. We're not the best of the best, but more often the most addicted of the junkies. People in general tend to perceive themselves inferior in some way and because of that feel the need to not only prove themselves superior to another but to be recognized by others as such. It is a fundamental part of our nature and everyone experiences it, though, some lie and delude themselves that they do not and are therefore superior....

There are hatreds and animosities built over years on Red that players get sucked into and then help perpetuate. Things like the stupid fucking praising the death of your "enemies" fosters more ill will than the death or the YT. And it's all bullshit posturing and acting in the end anyway, which has been proven repeatedly when people considered despicable switch sides and become BFFs overnight. We all care what others think of us and at some point act like idiotic children because of it. I can point out multiple examples of it in this topic alone.

We're responsible for our actions, not a bit of coding that says who died and who killed them. Most MMOs involving pvp have something like YT, especially first-person shooters, and I cannot recall anyone ever having accused it of being bad for Call of Duty or Battlefield.
I don't get mad about dying or bitch at my attackers, and I will even defend their right to kill me if others do. Not a single one of us will ever be better than the next person, or they better than us because of EQ. It's a mind-blowing concept, I know, and I call it maturity. Let me repeat that in bold letters MATURITY.
There is nothing else that could be added or taken away that would benefit us all more. So please, try proving to yourself that you're superior to the dick you were instead of trying to prove to others that a game makes you better than someone else. We are all the problem, myself included, and pointing fingers at pretty much every single thing except ourselves hasn't helped us once in three years.




Too Long? Didn't Read? I got you covered, 'lil fella.

We all have some bit of maturity locked inside, so let that fucker out. Feed it, nuture it, take that shit for long walks around Norrath. Eventually it will be beneficial to you, everyone you know and anyone you meet in the future.

[Coffee]

http://i.imgur.com/wjhEV.gif

[easy_lee]

Easy, your points were well thought out and in many ways valid, but YT is not the problem really. It's a matter of cause and effect, and what you are lobbying to remove is just the effect and not the cause. Hell, the leaderboards have probably done more of the damage you mentioned than YT ever could on its own.
The sad truth is that the cause is the people that play here. We're not the best of the best, but more often the most addicted of the junkies. People in general tend to perceive themselves inferior in some way and because of that feel the need to not only prove themselves superior to another but to be recognized by others as such. It is a fundamental part of our nature and everyone experiences it, though, some lie and delude themselves that they do not and are therefore superior....

There are hatreds and animosities built over years on Red that players get sucked into and then help perpetuate. Things like the stupid fucking praising the death of your "enemies" fosters more ill will than the death or the YT. And it's all bullshit posturing and acting in the end anyway, which has been proven repeatedly when people considered despicable switch sides and become BFFs overnight. We all care what others think of us and at some point act like idiotic children because of it. I can point out multiple examples of it in this topic alone.

We're responsible for our actions, not a bit of coding that says who died and who killed them. Most MMOs involving pvp have something like YT, especially first-person shooters, and I cannot recall anyone ever having accused it of being bad for Call of Duty or Battlefield.
I don't get mad about dying or bitch at my attackers, and I will even defend their right to kill me if others do. Not a single one of us will ever be better than the next person, or they better than us because of EQ. It's a mind-blowing concept, I know, and I call it maturity. Let me repeat that in bold letters MATURITY.
There is nothing else that could be added or taken away that would benefit us all more. So please, try proving to yourself that you're superior to the dick you were instead of trying to prove to others that a game makes you better than someone else. We are all the problem, myself included, and pointing fingers at pretty much every single thing except ourselves hasn't helped us once in three years.




Too Long? Didn't Read? I got you covered, 'lil fella.

We all have some bit of maturity locked inside, so let that fucker out. Feed it, nuture it, take that shit for long walks around Norrath. Eventually it will be beneficial to you, everyone you know and anyone you meet in the future.

I read your full post, and I understand your points. I do disagree that players on red are any different from players of other MMOs. I believe that the game creates the community, and not the other way around.

EQ is the only MMO I've ever seen do PvP right. The reason: it matters. Since EQ has only one instance, PvP determines who gets the raid loot each week. On a smaller scale, you can run people out of your area when you want to farm a dungeon or boss. That's awesome; I wish all PvP servers on all MMOs did this, instead of just EQ. It makes PvP actually matter and ties it to the game's central goal: progression.

For me, the server's about PvP, so I'm against anything that leads people to avoid PvP or participate in skill-less PvP (looking for low HP ganks rather than engaging in actual fights). Tracking who has the most kills is one of those things, and we've seen its effects on MOBAs often enough; everyone wants to play carry and nobody plays support. I don't think CoD is a fair example because it doesn't really have classes. Everyone's role in CoD is to kill the other side, and doing so is how you win.

So, in short, I understand your points and respect your stance. YT started as a symptom and is hardly the worst thing about the server, I just don't think it adds to the experience.

[Pumped]

Zerging controls who gets the loot sorry

[Fame]

dis about to get out of control with walls of text

repeal both PnP and Lns

move to resolved

[Madbad]

dis about to get out of control with walls of text

repeal both PnP and Lns

move to resolved

[easy_lee]

Zerging controls who gets the loot sorry

Currently, yes. But we've also seen instances where a smaller force is able to beat a larger force and take the mob. We should be finding ways to create that kind of competition rather than encouraging a zerg.

Sadly, one of the biggest factors encouraging zerg tactics right now is the lack of teams. In a system where there are no enforced teams, it makes sense for the most geared players to all join the same guild and take whatever they want. If we had factions, and different factions couldn't group up, then the zerg tactics would be less common. They would still happen, as one faction always seems to get in the lead, they just wouldn't happen as much.

One positive thing about this community is that people contest zergs at all. I never thought I would see that happen here due to the rules encouraging zergs. I've been very impressed with some of the things I've seen and participated in.

[Pumped]

Currently, yes. But we've also seen instances where a smaller force is able to beat a larger force and take the mob. We should be finding ways to create that kind of competition rather than encouraging a zerg.

Sadly, one of the biggest factors encouraging zerg tactics right now is the lack of teams. In a system where there are no enforced teams, it makes sense for the most geared players to all join the same guild and take whatever they want. If we had factions, and different factions couldn't group up, then the zerg tactics would be less common. They would still happen, as one faction always seems to get in the lead, they just wouldn't happen as much.

One positive thing about this community is that people contest zergs at all. I never thought I would see that happen here due to the rules encouraging zergs. I've been very impressed with some of the things I've seen and participated in.

i think that happened once in 4 years so no, zerging wins the loot

soe solved that problem easily

with instances

ikkinz, inkukta and tacvi were the first, but every game followed after because instances ROCK.

[Potus]

Too many bluebies want to farm yellow text on this server. It's why R99 is the most blue PVP server I've ever played.

[Proven Guilty]

i think that happened once in 4 years so no, zerging wins the loot

soe solved that problem easily

with instances

ikkinz, inkukta and tacvi were the first, but every game followed after because instances ROCK.

Plane of Time was the first. Instances were and always will be terrible in EQ. It works in some other games but they are developed much differently and do not have the same fundamental social aspect requirement early EQ did. Apples to Avocados imo.

[Agatha]

i agree, any pvp under lvl 50 should not show up in YT announcement, stunts the player base.

you have lvl 30's with fungis who have lvl 60 mains who know how to play the game hunting down new players that are lvl 30 without mercy.

server would have 200+ more people on it if there was no YT/incentive.

[Bazia]

YT is pointless and plug rates jumped immensely immediately after it was implemented

[iruinedyourday]

well technically Empire was outnumbered during like 2 out of 3 of our major battles with GG, but we did have a rather large force of folks that had multiple 60s at our disposal.. though there were some good plaeyrs on the GG side of things... so a lot of alt 60s there too..

The EJ no zoneline fight we had, what were the numbers? I know one side outnumbered the other by quite a few, and I know the smaller force was empire, but I dont remember if it was 10-15 or if it was like by like 30...

of course there is a lot of stuff that goes into that but to be honest, the seal team six squad in empire p much can chew through large numbers very efficiently, as long as that squad is in effect, zerg wont be the only thing that can stop empire, gonna take more than just that.

[Humerox]

<TMO> is developing their own Delta Force to counter so it's cool.

On the thread: A LOT of us campaigned against YT implementation. The server would be better off without it, IMHO.

BUT, there are a large number of players that enjoy YT...so raining on their parade isn't cool, either. It was implemented for a reason.

[Tradesonred]

don't know who you are, don't care, you seem new.

YT on a pvp server is crucial no matter how you look at it. Whether its for gloat factor or pvp awareness. It has done more positive to the server than any negative. On a more important note it alerts the community where the pvp is taking place, so it encourages pvp.

This is a 15+ year old game. The majority of this player base is age 20-36+. If you cant handle a public outing of a pvp death, well simply put, this server is not for you. There is a blue option for people like you.

Yeah no YT in eve online only shows how much of a bunch of bluebies eve players are, after sticking with a game with no YT for that long!

Andis youre so stupid and self-centered sometimes, its almost cute

Almost

Just fucking unable to envision things that are good for the server, you only care about your lulz, your ego and your loot, like your pal lite which is why he failed badly at leading and why you didnt want xp loss in pvp removed. Even Nizzar with all his RMT shit was wise enough to understand that loot had to trickle downwards a bit or else the whole thing collapses. Since you probably fail to understand what im getting at, im going to spoonfeed it to you. You need a playerbase to have your lulz. No playerbase, no lulz.

Andis is one of the few you can reliably count on to support bad rulesets because it benefits him in some short-sighted way and that as a dev, over the years, i would have learned ignoring his opinion on stuff from the get-go.

INB4 eve has kill logs

[Bazia]

A big reason alot more people probably didn't argue against YT is because we hadn't played on a server that had it before.

Sounded fun but i didn't realize it would make a majority of people insta camp out or insta plug from people that they don't think they can easily kill.

The last time I was immersed and playing alot about 70% of the people that weren't guilded with me would just insta camp or gate when I zoned in, shit was not fun.

[heartbrand]

A big reason alot more people probably didn't argue against YT is because we hadn't played on a server that had it before.

Sounded fun but i didn't realize it would make a majority of people insta camp out or insta plug from people that they don't think they can easily kill.

The last time I was immersed and playing alot about 70% of the people that weren't guilded with me would just insta camp or gate when I zoned in, shit was not fun.

Prolly cuz you played during an era where MR was broken and enchanters could destroy anyone with a tash

[Bazia]

happened before that patch as well as I had already accrued 100+ kills

))))))

[Bazia]

tendency usually was you kill the person once and then any time you ever see them again insta gate/camp/plug due to YT shame

[Colgate]

people gating out or camping against an enchanter with a cure shield?

crazy

[Cid]

EQ pvp is NOT good, it's pretty much just fucking awful. Considering it good based on the absence of instanced zones is ridiculous. It was never intended to be a pvp game and the addition of the Zek servers seemed to be done as an afterthought.
The reason people don't play support classes over offensive ones is because the class balance is an absolute joke, and it's a joke because Verant designed EQ as a pve game. Three Zek servers compared to like 40 pve servers made that point obvious enough that Helen Keller would have seen it.

Zerging is not the problem either. Anyone who thinks zerging is new or a problem needing to be fixed either never experienced the endgame on Live or they are seeing their memories through rose-colored glasses. Zerging existed from the very beginning of EQ and will continue until the last server in existence shuts down. If Empire dissolves or gets banned again the next guild will take its place as the king of zerg mountain just like Empire did and Nihilum before them. With a little searching I could find older posts of mine where I explained this before Nihilum was banned and predicted exactly what would occur with the rise of Holo/Empire, though, I did not know the name.

Stop fucking acting like you didn't know what a Red server would be like, especially 13 years after the fact. We all knew this would pretty much be a country club for the insecure and the assholes, so let's stop projecting the blame for our fears and insecurities on game functions. You almost certainly plugged because you were scared to die or worried you would be shamed or ridiculed..... in a game. If you weren't would never log out when someone entered the zone and you sure as hell wouldn't run around with roleplaying or anonymous on every single toon.

Why does it matter if you die or get made fun of by anonymous internet people? Being the best at an EQ emu is like medalling in the Special Olympics. You're still retarded, but at least those kids have sportsmanship.

I even practice what I preach, I'm not hypocrite like some people. I do not plug, though I might crash zoning. I don't get mad if I die pve or pvp, it's usually hilarious. I'm the only lvl 60 always running around without /anon or /role on, and I do check. I'm also the only person on Red from day 1 that never picked sides, never killed anyone, and got to see everything that has occurred from a unique perspective devoid of guild politics and hurt feelings.
None of that makes me better than anyone, but I am proof that we can play without being douchebags about it. It's not impossible, and if you are thinking, "Oh, but he doesn't pvp though!" it doesn't mean I am incapable. If I kill someone I want them awake, facing me and ready on equal terms and that has never happened outside of GM controlled BotB tournaments.


TL;DR: At this point, fuck you! You're likely one of the frightened, insecure people I mentioned. I've spent years trying to help this server and the pedestal from which you can look down on me exists only in your imagination. So, thank you, fuck you, I hope you die, have a nice day, goodbye! =)

[Swish]

I hope you die

wow

[Buhbuh]

When EQ introduced YT/ leaderboards, the good/ interesting PvP plummeted. YT hardly ever alerts people to where PvP is going down. If people are in Teamspeak, it's pretty easy to figure out. There are obvious hot spots.

I hate the fact that KC PvP is so predominant here. It's boring and repetitive zone hugging bullshit. No one needs to commit, it hardly ever leaves the zone line, and kills rarely happen unless it's a synchronized gank. It's just uninteresting. It's a type of PvP, for sure; it's just that barely anyone has fun doing it.

The best fights on this server have been in VP. No gating, no hammering, no porting. No way out. People are forced to commit, and you get to pound the fights out down and dirty.

YT is useless imo, bragging rights aren't important. People know when they're outclassed. Take screenshots if you get your jollies off publicly criticizing shitty players.

[magician]

this troll post is by slathar and you're all getting trolled.

LOL trolled!

[El Camacho]

PvP deaths 1-54? = zone wide Yellow Text message

PvP deaths 55-60 = server wide Yellow Text message



Or make the Yellow Text messages different for each of the two level ranges of PvP. Would be nice to tell the heavy weight main events vs the middle school backyard wrestling matches.

Could be very helpful in cleaning up the leaderboard and making it a little more relevant.

[Coffee]

people gating out or camping against an enchanter with a cure shield?

crazy

during x3 tash debuff modifier, unresistable root and blind era

[Bardalicious]

TLDR the shittiest 1% of eqemu-born "PVPers" cried and cried for YT on a server that the staff had abandoned hope for anyways.

Welcome to Red99!

[Stasis01]

YT or not I'm not fighting a cure shield chanter unless I have backup or it's for something significant.

[Stasis01]

Or did Kecleon think he was good or something?

[Agatha]

ill take it one step further, i wont fight a chanter period, it takes forever to get buffs. specifically at KC over nothing lol.

[Bazia]

http://cdn.hellogiggles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/15/Sean-Bean-as-Ned-Stark-giggling-in-Game-Of-Thrones-GIF.gif