Hit chance increased by DEX

[Technique]

The hit chance of all melee/ranged/special attacks in PvP is being increased by the attacker's DEX, and by a lot (1% for every ~7 points).

I ran two sets of parses (one vs. player and one vs. NPC) on the beta server. For the player parse I used the following character at variable DEX:

L60 rogue wielding 4/19 daggers
250 piercing skill
193 STR

75 DEX vs. L60 shaman 200def 848AC 140AGI
Attempts: 2235 -- Hits: 1364 -- Misses: 830 -- Defended: 41 -- Accuracy: 62.2%

244 DEX vs. L60 shaman 200def 848AC 140AGI
Attempts: 2036 -- Hits: 1679 -- Misses: 312 -- Defended: 45 -- Accuracy: 84.3%
The NPC parse was done under the same conditions, except using bare fists (19 hand-to-hand skill) because the test NPC (Bloodmaw in Great Divide) is only a L20 warrior and I didn't want to risk a capped hit chance with daggers due to high piercing skill.

75 DEX vs. NPC
Attempts: 2183 -- Hits: 1542 -- Misses: 540 -- Defended: 101 -- Accuracy: 74.1%

244 DEX vs. NPC
Attempts: 2108 -- Hits: 1498 -- Misses: 519 -- Defended: 91 -- Accuracy: 74.3%DEX doesn't affect hit chance vs. NPCs on p99.

There's no code in the EQEmu source, nor is there any anecdotal evidence I'm aware of, suggesting that DEX should affect hit chance in PvP or PvM.

If I had to guess, this is another one of Null's well-intentioned but ill-conceived modifications to r99 that should be removed.

[Colgate]

pretty sure null said that in pvp if your dexterity is higher than your target's agility, your hitrate is higher

this is probably the cause of all the complaints about casters getting raped by melee hitrate

[Nirgon]

This kind of shit belongs in Star Craft custom maps

Haynar break out the delete key bro

[Itap]

Nice find

[SamwiseRed]

is this also the reason why low dex melees cant hit monks? or just why monks seem to land more hits on tanks? either way score.

[Buhbuh]

ya i very consistently get my world shattered by shaman buffed melee or knights on a pure caster. i'm actually surprised 84% is the figure. i would've guessed somewhere around 90%

[Colgate]

p sure the code literally says

if your dex > their agi

+ x% hitrate

[Buhbuh]

I know hit rate % went up considerably when primal geared melees/ knights surfaced, but I don't know how that got calculated in PvP. People with avatar up shit on folks, but I don't recall the hit rate % being this high while in Kunark, even with full Shaman buffs on.

Shamans were monster tanks against melees when they had Torpor up. Here, they don't even stand a chance against melees. If you pop Torpor in PvP and keep yourself snared like that, you're going down - and even without a melee using disciplines against you.

I don't have screenshots to say the way it is now isn't classic, but almost anyone that plays here that actually played during this era can tell you hit rate % is off.

[Lasher]

So questions I have are. All melee should be around 74% accuracy reguardless of stats or +attack?

should anyting increase accuracy besides disc?

Also

19 skill in hand to hand. Would his accuracy go up if it was 250 skill like he was with piercing?

[Ragnaros]

Classic

[Technique]

p sure the code literally says

if your dex > their agi

+ x% hitrateThis can't be the case, because hit chance increases linearly with DEX values all the way up to and above the defender's AGI.

Also, EQEmu source already has a statement in the hit check function that subtracts hit chance based on the defender's AGI alone. It's likely that Null simply added an opposing statement that increases it based on the attacker's DEX alone.

So questions I have are. All melee should be around 74% accuracy reguardless of stats or +attack?

should anyting increase accuracy besides disc?
As far as I know there are only five other factors involved besides hit discs:


level difference between the attacker and defender
attacker's weapon skill
accuracy portion of the attacker's ATK (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=343358&postcount=5)
defender's defense skill
defender's AGI

[Lasher]

What should be the formula for accuracy? I kind of think its one of those unknown codes.

Like buhbuh said there were factors at hand that did increase accuracy. This is anecdotal but on TZ I do remember Gylen with primal brawl stick. He was annoying and hurt when he was on you but when it procced he was like Sauron in LOTR mowing people down.

I play a warrior and I peronally liked to see accuracy brought down so that there is still room to grow for accuracy in velius with primals.

I suspect that accuracy should come more from +attack. SO when a primal goes off you get the +100 attack and also your str gets capped which is more attack

[Buhbuh]

Yeah, it's really hard to deduce what component from Avatar procs made melees complete monsters in PvP, but atk power was probably the most significant thing to change when it did proc.

I thought atk power made it so that hits you do connect with become more consistently top end, but if hit rate% is calculated from that too, I don't know.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:Stats

It sounds like from this, Strength is the only thing that directly effects hit rate % on normal auto attacks. Dex hit rate is apparently only in relation to special abilities (Flying Kick, Backstab, etc.) and proc rates. Hit rate % calculated by strength sounds more reasonable. That was probably the reason Ogres and Trolls were considered the best during this era. There was no real way to max the really important combat stats during this era without being either one of those two races.

Though with the current amount of gear in Kunark, lots of people are able to max strength with buffs, so we might see the same ordeal even if it were changed. It just seems like the hit rate in PvP is absurd. Well geared Enchanters could chain rune through damage on live, Shamans could tank with Torpor on - but here, if a melee even gets close to me, I bounce. It's just too dangerous being anywhere close to them.

[Lasher]

Id like to point out possible implications of this find. Everyone probably thinking "OMG nerf melee now". I think its more Nerf max stat accuracy but also bring up accuracy for those who dont have max stat.


Yes 85% seems hi to me but the 62% seems low.

Perhaps change the code to bass of str and attack but have tighter window.

For example.

lets say 150 str you at 75% and every 10 str below or above is a +-1 accuracy

[Technique]

Yes 85% seems hi to me but the 62% seems low.Haven't been able to find much archived info about hit chance in PvP, but in this thread from early 2004 (http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3233), a 65 paladin is testing bash vs. a 65 wizard and a 65 monk. Combat skill caps for a L65 were the same as they were for a L60 in Velious, but average stats including STR/ATK were likely higher.

His accuracy vs. the wizard was 230/390 = 61.3%
2nd trial vs. wizard was 75/132 = 56.8%
Vs. the monk it's 33/89 = 37.1%

If anything, 62% vs. a 200 defense shaman is still too high (though removing the effect of that 75 dex in the "low" parse would likely bring it in line), especially considering I had no bonus ATK from worn items or buffs in those parses.

[Lasher]

does bash have same accuracy as auto attack melee?

I dont know the answer but I cant imagine melee only getting 37% accuracy against front facing monk

[Technique]

Bash had a skill cap of 200 and a monk's defense capped at 252.

AGI is also having an exaggerated (subtractive) effect on hit chance compared to distro EQEMu. The fact is we won't know how the system stands in relation to classic EQ until these customizations are removed.

[Buhbuh]

that amount of hit rate versus a monk doesn't account for potential AAs everyone had access to during that era, like Lightning Reflex, etc etc.

If Dex is the only modifier, though, that's sort of retarded

[SamwiseRed]

I mean, that mechinic is kinda cool now that I think about it although I wish i had known about it. my 105 dex warrior (when geared) cant hit monks because their AGI is greater? this would also explain why this halfling warrior with worse gear same level was hitting me a lot more often. damn I wish I had put my pts into dex and not sta, or hell even agi if I knew it was going to matter in pvp.

[Lasher]

go halfling warior

[SamwiseRed]

go halfling warior

the one time I decided to not go halfling, brb rerolling