Understanding <Empire>'s raid suspension

[Videri]

I'd really appreciate it if players and staff could help me understand what Sirken's decree means in practical terms.

"The guild "Empire" is suspended from the next Phara'Dar effective immediately for the following violation:
Cwall of Empire Trains Good Guys at PD's Door in VP (7/1) (Next PD + Player Suspension)"

First of all, I am so happy Empire finally had guild-wide consequences for training. I believe guild-wide consequences are the only way GMs can get guild leaders to police their own members. I was so relieved when I heard this and I'm very grateful to the GMs. On to my question.

It's clear this means <Empire> can't kill the next Phara Dar. But can they still enter VP while she's up to try to stop others from downing her? Or do they have to give other guilds a free shot at PD?

[TheBiznessTZ]

i Would love to hear clear cut rules on this. I Heard we aren't allowed to enter VP at all while TMO is attempting PD but then how will we know when its dead to contest for the other dragons? Also heard we can't even attempt to PvP siege in SF to delay your attempts on PD. Would love to know the exact rules so there is no more further punishment.

[Ele]

Sounds like red is turning blue with all these new fangled rules.

[Tassador]

Sounds like red is turning blue with all these new fangled rules.

The so called red elites are in need of a blue guild TMO to try and win the server for the first time in 9 years. Yeah it's been blue and it's getting more blue by the second.

[Colgate]

don't be fooled, it has always been skewed in favor of the losing crowd here

i.e. the guild that loses can train nonstop in a fight and suffer no guildwide penalty as long as they didn't kill the raid mob

if the winning guild trains? raid suspension

[Ele]

don't be fooled, it has always been skewed in favor of the losing crowd here

i.e. the guild that loses can train nonstop in a fight and suffer no guildwide penalty as long as they didn't kill the raid mob

if the winning guild trains? raid suspension

Even if you lost/conceded the mob on blue, you still got the punishment (depending on Era and CSR). I guess red has that going for itself.

[vinnidel]

the unpaid GM Sirken volunteers his own time (free of charge, i might add) to write up a nebulous ruling, and now you're demanding that he make another post clarifying the original? This player pool is so toxic, they never appreciate what these GMs (who make NO money) do. OP, if you don't like it here, you can just leave.

Ty Sirken, Moregan, Eunomia, et all for all that you do here (despite receiving NO compensation). I'm looking forward to your next stream-cast.

[Videri]

Bullshit, Colgate. You guys trained us relentlessly and have faced virtually no consequences. You guys often train on alts you don't care about and those characters get suspended - who cares? You can train on another alt next week. Now, finally, you guys have a raid suspension.

When was the last raid suspension <Empire> had?

[Colgate]

Even if you lost/conceded the mob on blue, you still got the punishment (depending on Era and CSR). I guess red has that going for itself.

yeah, there's a big disconnect between the two servers in terms of rulings and punishments

probably mostly due to the fact that blue gets 95% of the CSR staff's attention, though

[nottitanuk]

yeah, there's a big disconnect between the two servers in terms of rulings and punishments

probably mostly due to the fact that blue gets 95% of the CSR staff's attention, though

[Colgate]

Bullshit, Colgate. You guys trained us relentlessly and have faced virtually no consequences. You guys often train on alts you don't care about and those characters get suspended - who cares? You can train on another alt next week. Now, finally, you guys have a raid suspension.

When was the last raid suspension <Empire> had?

if i wanted the opinion of someone that had been on the server for 6 months, i would have specifically said "someone with zero idea what they're talking about chime in please"

it has always been this way

it was this way when i was the underdog fighting nihilum

it's this way now that i'm leading the #1 guild

[Videri]

When was the last raid suspension <Empire> had?

[Colgate]

a few months ago for cazic thule against azrael, azrael trained us, we trained back and killed CT, we got raid suspended because we got the raid mob

but you weren't playing here then

[Dango]

Colgate is upset like a little kid throwing a tantrum now he got caught... Word

[Doors]

Petitionquest ruins the game.

[Ele]

the unpaid GM Sirken volunteers his own time (free of charge, i might add) to write up a nebulous ruling, and now you're demanding that he make another post clarifying the original? This player pool is so toxic, they never appreciate what these GMs (who make NO money) do. OP, if you don't like it here, you can just leave.

Ty Sirken, Moregan, Eunomia, et all for all that you do here (despite receiving NO compensation). I'm looking forward to your next stream-cast.

Nebulous rulings have plagued the servers since inception.

GMs like the attention the guild lawyers give them throughout the week otherwise they would shut it down years ago and prevent the lawyers from chatting, texting, emailing, skyping, and meeting them for drinks IRL, or buying soaps and confectionery while arguing their petitons.

[Videri]

don't be fooled, it has always been skewed in favor of the losing crowd here

i.e. the guild that loses can train nonstop in a fight and suffer no guildwide penalty as long as they didn't kill the raid mob

if the winning guild trains? raid suspension

so don't train

[Colgate]

sirken's policy is literally contingent upon whether you win the raid mob after training

is it a good policy? i don't think so at all, but he does it because he wants there to be an "opposing faction"

this is why lite hasn't been banned yet; he believes the server is better off with an enemy leader, even if they constantly break the rules

and i accepted that reality a long time ago when it benefitted me, i still accept it when it benefits the underdog guild(s)

[SamwiseRed]

tbh i say fuck it, legalize training so we can deal with it ourselves. sucks being on the side that follows the rules. nice guys finish last here unless you have fraps from 22 different angles in 1080 HD. like the big KC fight when every giant in DL was being trained to KC over and over by bestow. love the kid sometimes but being able to do that BS on a throwaway account without worry is bs.

[Colgate]

both guilds have people who train at pretty much every single large engagement

it's the nature of everquest

that being said, i don't think training should be legalized, i just think the staff needs to do a better job of enforcing the rule fairly and trying to actually have a presence here during fights

[Alarti0001]

don't be fooled, it has always been skewed in favor of the losing crowd here

i.e. the guild that loses can train nonstop in a fight and suffer no guildwide penalty as long as they didn't kill the raid mob

if the winning guild trains? raid suspension

In summary. You're full of shit

[Alarti0001]

a few months ago for cazic thule against azrael, azrael trained us, we trained back and killed CT, we got raid suspended because we got the raid mob

but you weren't playing here then

Prove it.

[SamwiseRed]

the only way to counter trains is to lose zone control or train back. i agree its the nature of everquest but i think guild leaders can hold their individual members responsible if they really want competition in the form of pvp. its not even about losing the mob i mean spending half the fight trying to get mobs off you, zoning back and forth between trains on both sides of a zl is not fun.

[Fael]

Be careful what we wish for in terms of csr. Just saying. Fraps quest is double edged sword and must be used with caution.

[T7g]

Sounds like red is turning blue with all these new fangled rules.

You and Xasten are more than welcome to join us on red- I was actually going to contact you personally.

but if you're just here to talk shit; fuck off bluebie!

[ElemtalRZ]

The difference is that Empire's guild leaders do the trains themself.

[Alarti0001]

Lol it happened

It was bound to

[Mr Popo]

Colgate, unless I'm missing something, according to one of your very own guild members, you were piloting cwall and the person who started the damn train the first place. Please confirm or deny. Also looking forward to GG's video of the train being shared with the rest of us, cause you can be for fucking sure, that I'm turn that into a ridiculous open tooth gif for the rest of server history. Scared yet?

[Mr Popo]

http://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/DomxiZ5.gif

[Silent]

tbh i say fuck it, legalize training so we can deal with it ourselves. sucks being on the side that follows the rules. nice guys finish last here unless you have fraps from 22 different angles in 1080 HD. like the big KC fight when every giant in DL was being trained to KC over and over by bestow. love the kid sometimes but being able to do that BS on a throwaway account without worry is bs.

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93NNvfvk4yA&feature=youtu.be

Manmode in action during that kc/dl fight. his 'exp group' as he claimed it, just happened to never do ANY damage to mobs, but yet constantly was able to line it up with the KC entrance ZL's so mobs pathed through every minute or less, instakilling anyone sitting.

[Doors]

Not a day goes by brobb or some other idiot aren't training in KC, in Seb, in HS, etc.

Shit happens all the time from every guild competing. They need to be more uniform in their punishments for it if not training is going to remain a rule.

[Susvain2]

Tala, Samwise, you really think Empire is solely responsible for trains inside KC during mass pvp? That is insane. Even members of <Fresh> were training KC during mass fights in there

[Videri]

They need to be more uniform in their punishments for it if not training is going to remain a rule.

<Good Guys> everywhere are cackling insanely. That is the same thing the folks I play with have been saying for as long as I've been on the server. All 8 long months! ;)

[TheBiznessTZ]

<Good Guys> everywhere are cackling insanely. That is the same thing the folks I play with have been saying for as long as I've been on the server. All 8 long months! ;)

I like how tala is yelling about training... when he personally trained VS in the last KC fight. /golfclap

[Videri]

I like how tala is yelling about training... when he personally trained VS in the last KC fight. /golfclap

No...? I don't think Tala has ever had aggro on that mob. Not even sure I've seen it. :( What is this weird "completely fabricate stories" strat?

[snufzaimoverlord]

Those who whine the loudest get the most attention.

[Strange]

The difference is that Empire's guild leaders do the trains themself.

i guess you dont recall Lite training Gore,or a thousand other times on all the toons he has access to.

[Strange]

i guess you dont recall Lite training Gore,or a thousand other times on all the toons he has access to.

with this said,the rule i find dumb is that people can train you,strip your account,or do w.e and only the free throw away account gets in trouble(only the accounts involved with the situation)... then they just play their main or one of their other alt accounts...

[SamwiseRed]

Tala, Samwise, you really think Empire is solely responsible for trains inside KC during mass pvp? That is insane. Even members of <Fresh> were training KC during mass fights in there

i was only talking about the last kc battle where mobs were dumped on us from DL by manmode and youknowwho pulling most of the basement out. cant speak for all kc battles as I wasnt there.

[iruinedyourday]

This thread needs more Syft-x

[Phorsail]

tbh i say fuck it, legalize training so we can deal with it ourselves. sucks being on the side that follows the rules. nice guys finish last here unless you have fraps from 22 different angles in 1080 HD. like the big KC fight when every giant in DL was being trained to KC over and over by bestow. love the kid sometimes but being able to do that BS on a throwaway account without worry is bs.

We had this argument for the full duration of beta.

[Tameth]

I think AngryBrobby is soley responsible for all trains. May his friends and family be locked in federal prison for ten thousand years!!



oh wait, they left him!

[Smedy]

whoever lawyerquested this dropped the ball, this punishment is so weak it would make amelinda turn in her grave

i can't wait for colgate to show up on another (if not the same) throw away account the next time a phara dar chance presents itself!

[iiNGloriouS]

Idk why they made VP a CSR zone. It was so much more dun just running around on Jody training the fuck out of nihilum.

[Colgate]

i miss VZTZ where smedy was at least funny

[Strange]

what if in fact,someone trained cwall or broke his invis so he can get an exp death?

[Drakaris]

both guilds have people who train at pretty much every single large engagement

it's the nature of everquest

that being said, i don't think training should be legalized, i just think the staff needs to do a better job of enforcing the rule fairly and trying to actually have a presence here during fights

Can't believe you are criticising staff after having the server handed to you on a silver platter. Remember how Nihilum was disbanded because people posted screenshots of an old forum post with 'guild leader' on the status?

He made 0 calls on loot since he was banned for RMT and the officers and appointed guild leader made sure of that.

[Susvain2]

give it up Drakaris, Nihilum is gone and not coming back

move on kid

[dontbanpls]

Can't believe you are criticising staff after having the server handed to you on a silver platter. Remember how Nihilum was disbanded because people posted screenshots of an old forum post with 'guild leader' on the status?

He made 0 calls on loot since he was banned for RMT and the officers and appointed guild leader made sure of that.

lol what is this lying about nizzar calling shots shit

[Masq]

Better late than never I suppose.

[Uuruk]

Embarrassing thread.

[Uuruk]

How come it's all the shitters that was in good guys making the threads and shit talking ooc? Take a note from the actual TMO members that came to this server.

[Stasis01]

sirken's policy is literally contingent upon whether you win the raid mob after training

is it a good policy? i don't think so at all, but he does it because he wants there to be an "opposing faction"

this is why lite hasn't been banned yet; he believes the server is better off with an enemy leader, even if they constantly break the rules

and i accepted that reality a long time ago when it benefitted me, i still accept it when it benefits the underdog guild(s)

It's the way everyone managed to paint Nizzar as such a bad guy myself included, and Tune. If you get all the raid mobs Sirken and other GM's can be convinced that you're bad for the server.

It's a greasy move, but crying foul and shit will be more effective if you suck and lose all the time, and can put GM heat on the #1 over shit that everyone does.

[Stasis01]

How long did Tune get for a PNP violation that was during raid PVP when a guy was trying to loot his body during the fight.

It was months or something ridiculous haha.

[Videri]

This thread in summary is pretty much Colgate fending off and shitting on about 9 different mad bad sads at once. Funny to watch.

Well, originally, the thread was just a question to try to understand what's going to happen VP next week (read OP). Colgate's response derailed it into a train game blame fest. I took the bait. It was fun. :)

This vinderi guy would probably flip his lid if he knew Colgate's e-name used to be cwall and that was originally his bard.

No, I know. Some of my guildmates told me they thought it was Colgate on Cwall. Not the case?

[Videri]

Guys, some of you seem a bit mad. That was not my intent. I just want to know what to prepare for next week.

I'd really appreciate it if players and staff could help me understand what Sirken's decree means in practical terms.

"The guild "Empire" is suspended from the next Phara'Dar effective immediately for the following violation:
Cwall of Empire Trains Good Guys at PD's Door in VP (7/1) (Next PD + Player Suspension)"

First of all, I am so happy Empire finally had guild-wide consequences for training. I believe guild-wide consequences are the only way GMs can get guild leaders to police their own members. I was so relieved when I heard this and I'm very grateful to the GMs. On to my question.

It's clear this means <Empire> can't kill the next Phara Dar. But can they still enter VP while she's up to try to stop others from downing her? Or do they have to give other guilds a free shot at PD?

[Stasis01]

I propose a Red99 Geneva Protocol where the use of easily manipulated good intentioned Sirken is not permitted. That would be considered crossing the line, and we could refer to those individuals as rats, and undesirables.

[Smedy]

wait

considering empire is banned from next PD, what if we just don't do PD forever and grief em outa riles forever heuheuheuhe

can we get some lawyers on this case, it might just be more fun leave him up and watch these pixelfrienzied beasts collapse internally

[Videri]

Seems like a genuine question. Will give a genuine response..

And I thank you for it. Yep, Videri is not like the forum trolls you're used to interacting with.

Who knows. Sirken was vague in his wording and even though you requested clarification, you won't get it. My guess is that empire is allowed to pvp every zone except VP while a raid force is attempting PD.

I see. So I'm not the only one. I guess we'll make our best attempt at PD and try to make the best of it.

[Eslade]

http://bushwickdaily.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/seven-days.gif

[Pikrib]

How long did Tune get for a PNP violation that was during raid PVP when a guy was trying to loot his body during the fight.

It was months or something ridiculous haha.

He tried to FQ saying he only attacked one guy on LnS but he did it like 3 times in that Lava/sol B/Nek fight. Rules were just created and of course the GM's were gonna go hard to make everyone know they were serious. He chose a bad time to test the GM's.

[jibekn]

a few months ago for cazic thule against azrael, azrael trained us, we trained back and killed CT, we got raid suspended because we got the raid mob

but you weren't playing here then

I was there your guild actually trained them selves, blamed azrael then trained azrael then got suspended.

get your story straight skinny jeans

[Stasis01]

The guys were running back without calling LNS he had no way of identifying if they were rejoining the fight.

Anyone expecting to LNS during a PVP fight is ridiculous and that is all besides the point because anyone who wasn't Tune wouldn't have gotten fucked up the ass like that.

I felt bad for Tune near the end - guy really didn't deserve it, but it still makes me chuckle a bit when I remember going into TS with him during Gods Work and having him all beaten down and depressed about his situation on the box. Felt like we crushed the best you know(the box that is)

[Ghordo]

Sounds like red is turning blue with all these new fangled rules.

[Pikrib]

I was there your guild actually trained them selves, blamed azrael then trained azrael then got suspended.

get your story straight skinny jeans

Gyno was screaming insanely in TS to get people to train. It was a blatant unprovoked train that made me question my leadership. After the Holocaust train happened he was like "That was a fun PVP fight wasn't it guys?"

[Eslade]

what exactly is pvp? is it two people standing still exchanging hits or is it using the environment also? are mobs not part of the environment?

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

wait

considering empire is banned from next PD, what if we just don't do PD forever and grief em outa riles forever heuheuheuhe

can we get some lawyers on this case, it might just be more fun leave him up and watch these pixelfrienzied beasts collapse internally

[Cecily]

what exactly is pvp? is it two people standing still exchanging hits or is it using the environment also? are mobs not part of the environment?

Of course they are. That's why it's called PvE. It's different from PvP.

[Cecily]

what exactly is pvp? is it two people standing still exchanging hits

And ideally, yes. EQ PvP is people pussy foot prancing around.

[Platexchange]

Both sides train, both sides know they train. Both sides still complain about training. You want real change, don't expect the gms to police every encounter. Instead hold players accountable for their actions. It's called integrity, neither of the guilds show much of it with these 900000 posts on shit they could handle themselves.

(In before "but so and so does it")

[jibekn]

good guys never trained.

empire has trained over 10 times

[Balrhog_VZ]

More than 15 years of EverQuest and ALWAYs the same training bullshit ...

Can't people just stop training, would solve a lot of issues ... guess pixels on an EMU are more important.

[Alarti0001]

what exactly is pvp? is it two people standing still exchanging hits or is it using the environment also? are mobs not part of the environment?

PvPvE. I wish but GM's don't allow training.

[Uuruk]

Wait until the first time lite drops a few trains in KC during mass pvp.

[derpcake]

good guys never trained.

empire has trained over 10 times

allauhu snackbards

[erog84]

Both sides train, both sides know they train. Both sides still complain about training. You want real change, don't expect the gms to police every encounter. Instead hold players accountable for their actions. It's called integrity, neither of the guilds show much of it with these 900000 posts on shit they could handle themselves.

(In before "but so and so does it")

This. Although I think if the GM's start holding the guild leaders/officers accountable for their guilds repeated actions, then guild training would go down pretty quickly.

[Syft-X]

Both sides train, both sides know they train. Both sides still complain about training. You want real change, don't expect the gms to police every encounter. Instead hold players accountable for their actions. It's called integrity, neither of the guilds show much of it with these 900000 posts on shit they could handle themselves.

(In before "but so and so does it")

The difference is Good Guys never made a TS call to train or had trains run that were advocated by leadership.

When Empire trains it's guild leadership doing it.

[Uuruk]

The difference is Good Guys never made a TS call to train or had trains run that were advocated by leadership.

When Empire trains it's guild leadership doing it.

Guess you haven't played with Lite. Probably too much time forum questing instead of logging in.

[Syft-X]

Guess you haven't played with Lite. Probably too much time forum questing instead of logging in.

Guess you gonna cry all over forums and follow me around like a lost puppy everytime I post.

[Eslade]

does Syft even play here?

[Fame]

heh Colgate really comin off as a butthurt crybabyfgt in this thread, good post.

[Pumped]

titanuk posts in raid suspension thread

oh god the irony

[vouss]

You can rest assured that any raid I lead will not be training. After the time we spent playing together you would think Colgate would know that.

[Stasis01]

You can rest assured that any raid I lead will not be training. After the time we spent playing together you would think Colgate would know that.

You play with people that cheat/box/train w/e helps you sleep at night.

[Alarti0001]

You play with people that cheat/box/train w/e helps you sleep at night.

Irony

[Colgate]

luv dat common misuse of the word irony

[Madbad]

Coincidence

[Strange]

does Syft even play here?

on an out of range bard

[LostCause]

don't be fooled, it has always been skewed in favor of the losing crowd here

i.e. the guild that loses can train nonstop in a fight and suffer no guildwide penalty as long as they didn't kill the raid mob

if the winning guild trains? raid suspension

u mad?

[Wizing]

Colgate how about you put your foot down as the guild leader and punish people within the guild for training in mass pvp . Then you won't have to worry about a raid suspension . After a few kicks and minus dkp hits everyone will fall in line . And it will be less work for the gms

[Sektor]

Colgate how about you put your foot down as the guild leader and punish people within the guild for training in mass pvp . Then you won't have to worry about a raid suspension . After a few kicks and minus dkp hits everyone will fall in line . And it will be less work for the gms

he was the one that trained, doubt gongshow will ever put him in his place

[Xaanka]

don't be fooled, it has always been skewed in favor of the losing crowd here

i.e. the guild that loses can train nonstop in a fight and suffer no guildwide penalty as long as they didn't kill the raid mob

if the winning guild trains? raid suspension

:cool: actually it's always been skewed in favor of whatever guild's leadership doesn't cry about every decision the GM's make on the forums :cool:

[Alarti0001]

luv dat common misuse of the word irony

do some research you might learn something

[quido]

what's a logical phallusy?

[quido]

Answer: It's what you're doing when Alarti disagrees with you.

[Alarti0001]

Answer: It's what you're doing when Alarti disagrees with you.

Nah logical fallacy is a logical error and doesn't in any way reflect on the validity of the actual point.
I also disagree with people when their point is just flat out wrong.

Stop thinking about my phallus.

[Recycled Children]

Shoot dang! Philosophy discussions on ForumQuest? Shits getting weird.

[SamwiseRed]

need heartbrand for dis

[iiNGloriouS]

Samwise. Is your body ready for tomorrow? We're going to become the best of friends

[Labanen]

Considering empire is banned from next PD, what if we just don't do PD forever and grief em outa riles forever lets do this.

bra jobbat !

[Xaanka]

Colgate how about you put your foot down as the guild leader and punish people within the guild for training in mass pvp . Then you won't have to worry about a raid suspension . After a few kicks and minus dkp hits everyone will fall in line . And it will be less work for the gms

reminder that Colgate was whining in RnF about GM favoritism against his guild the other day

I have nothing against you, Colgate, but c'mon. critical thinking skills.

[Colgate]

the policy regarding raid suspensions favors the winning guild and it always has, simply because whether or not you get raid suspended for training is contingent upon whether or not you won the raid mob after training

it's been like this for several years now

it has nothing to do with empire, good guys, tmo, azrael, nihilum, etc.

[heartbrand]

reminder that Colgate was whining in RnF about GM favoritism against his guild the other day

I have nothing against you, Colgate, but c'mon. critical thinking skills.

There's no comma before Colgate. Critical thinking skills.

[Ella`Ella]

There's no comma before Colgate. Critical thinking skills.

Ehhhh, actually - he's directly addressing Colgate, thus it's preceded with a comma.

[Jeni]

Can confirm almost past 8th grade english.

[Alarti0001]

the policy regarding raid suspensions favors the winning guild and it always has, simply because whether or not you get raid suspended for training is contingent upon whether or not you won the raid mob after training

it's been like this for several years now

it has nothing to do with empire, good guys, tmo, azrael, nihilum, etc.

Please show me the policy that says rulings are dependent on the kill.
Thx

[jibekn]

http://puu.sh/iPUmd/488dccfade.jpg

[Uuruk]

http://puu.sh/iPUmd/488dccfade.jpg

Must be nice to be a famous actor and better than you at everquest. Some guys have it all.

[jibekn]

http://puu.sh/iPVgj/e2597a18e2.png

[Ella`Ella]

Please show me the policy that says rulings are dependent on the kill.
Thx


Brace yourselves.

Blue is coming!

[Colgate]

Please show me the policy that says rulings are dependent on the kill.
Thx

ask sirken if you really need clarity, that's how it's always been here

[jibekn]

http://puu.sh/iPUwY/3105e6adfa.jpg