Why was plane of mischief revamped?

[mr_jon3s]

So just wondering why the plane of mischief was revamped the first time.

[Daldaen]

Firstly, because the entry location is dumb. The only entrance is in deep NToV, behind dragons and raid mobs. Meaning, while current, only a very small fraction of players will have access.

This is bad design. A group zone where only the top 1% can access it and only the casters who bind there can do so reliably... That's dumb. So they fixed it and added the GD zone in.

People look at it with their rose tinted glasses and recall how much of a special little snowflake they were for being able to access the zone. Their experience is going to be extremely different here when there are 5+ Torpor Shamans in the zone on day one, and 50+ Torpor Shamans/Enchanters/Necros soloing after the first month trying to farm cards and gouge the prices.

Secondly, the armor design was poor. They didn't keep the clickies standard through the sets so you ended up needing another set for clickies and PoM for marginally better stats in a few slots. Plus the descriptions on how to combine these things was even worse, there was almost no explanation for any of it.

Really, it wasn't that awesome of a zone in my opinion. Had the combinations been quests similar to the PoSky quests and had the zone in been in a more accessible location for groupers like the bottom of Cobalt Scar ocean or back of Kael, it would've been much better.

[Norfonz]

The location was the best part about it. Why is it dumb to have a zone that is hard to get to? It's dumb for EVERYONE to be able to get there, then no one is special. Tired of that argument, it's for people who want homogenization.

[Daldaen]

The location was the best part about it. Why is it dumb to have a zone that is hard to get to? It's dumb for EVERYONE to be able to get there, then no one is special. Tired of that argument, it's for people who want homogenization.

I guess I'm the opposite, I'm tired of the special snowflake argument. I love things that only I can access is a very lame way to gauge enjoyment of a video game.

Specifically something designed for solo/group play. Raiding I accept should have its high end areas limited to the neckbeardiest among us. But stuff that's designed to be fought by 3-4 players really shouldn't require you be the neckbeardiest.

But - on this server it won't be that special. I fully expect a few CotH bots to be placed on the bridge and hell, on this server you may even see people selling CotHs to the bridge for 5k or something. Those who felt special being one of few who accessed PoM on live will lose that on P99 and I think they will be sorely disappointed to see the population inside that zone / having difficulty getting a camp inside.

[milsorgen]

The location was the best part about it. Why is it dumb to have a zone that is hard to get to? It's dumb for EVERYONE to be able to get there, then no one is special. Tired of that argument, it's for people who want homogenization.

I tend to agree with that.

[Swish]

See plane of time for a later example of the same shit... people apparently loved all that flagging. I hated it!

[Briscoe]

Original Plane of Mischief was like an elite country club that only a very privileged few had access to. And I mean few in a literal sense: On most servers you could probably count the number of people who played in that zone on your hands. I bet that was a fun experience for those folks who were a part of it, and it's not surprising to see so many rose-tinted nostalgia posts about classic PoM littered across various EQ forums.

But this is probably WHY it was revamped. Sony is not going to devote resources to sustaining a zone that such an incredibly small fraction of the player base would ever see. (Similarly, this is why I chuckle now at some of Tigole's self-absorbed and self-righteous rants over that time period. Of course Verant and Sony needed to be concerned about end game players, but with 98% of the classic EQ population comprised of level 19 wood elf rangers and other assorted Klaknak champions, they had plenty to worry beyond the neckbeardiest of the neckbeards).

But even with PoM in its classic state, as Daldaen discussed, PoM on this server is going to be a nightmare.

[Pscottdai]

Nothing about the placement of the old entrance made it elite. All one had to do was trail behind a guild clearing NTOV to get to it. Now it was a PITA to figure how the quests worked, but that was why we had the PoM websites and forums.

[Daldaen]

Nothing about the placement of the old entrance made it elite. All one had to do was trail behind a guild clearing NTOV to get to it. Now it was a PITA to figure how the quests worked, but that was why we had the PoM websites and forums.

You write that as if your average player could just tag along behind an elite raiding guild clearing flurry drakes on their way to triplet.

No. Firstly, the vast majority of a classic server during Velious wasn't level 60, secondly, most of the players that were 50-60 absolutely feared traveling to zones where a Rez and corpse recovery are difficult, ToV would be the #1 example of a place where corpse recovery is impossible for your average Joe Schmoe. You say it and on paper it is sound fine but that's just not how it worked.

How it worked was at the end of a ToV clear, a few groups from that elite guild would zone in, a handful would bind and by the end of the week, when other mobs had respawned, almost every one of those characters had been moved out of PoM.

Fast forward to P99. There will be some people who devote an entire character to living in PoM, with a bind there. Many guild's will have CotH mages meaning once you connect a CotH chain, it's a DA Idol + SoW speeds run from PoM for very little effort. Guild's will regularly be clearing NToV as it respawns and I expect many will sell a Rez or CotH to the entrance because platinum rules this server. I have no doubts there will be tons of Torpor Shamans and Enchanter/Cleric duos locking down the best card camps for quite some time. I saw several specific shamans practicing this on beta.

PoM on P99, will be like raiding on P99. Advanced knowledge after 14 years + no-lifers will make it nothing like you remember during classic and there will be RNFs and there will be crying, petitioning, kill stealing, perma camping and price gouging. Outside of Sleepers Tomb/First Brood Dragons, I imagine PoM will be the largest concentration of pure evil on P99 come Velious.

[Auvdar]

Not classic at all, so it won't happen. But instead of keeping the zone in in ToV, the GM's should just put it in a random spot with maybe a little clue quest you can do to try and figure it out. Like put the zone in at the bottom of Ocean of Tears, then you can do a quest to get a "riddle" to solve for the location. Remove binding from the zone (or just make it so binds reset), and move the zone in once a week to a new location.

I mean it will never happen (Lot of work for devs/GMs, completely non-classic), but it would help keep the population low and keep the spirit of the zone intact.

[Daldaen]

The main problem I see with P99 PoM is people having 5 level 60 Alts and having the ability to leave their Torpor Shaman or 60 Enchanter/Necro camped permanently in the zone.

Nerfing binding and switching around zone in would keep in the spirit of the zone but won't happen.

Though hey, maybe I'll just bind my cleric there and sell rezzes. 1k/Rez!

[Auvdar]

It would make sense for the zone. Again, this won't happen at all and just pure theory. Make the quest giver Sirran in Plane of Sky. You have to find 'runes' that he then deciphers into a riddle. Solve the riddle, and it gives you a basic idea of the zone in.

Then just switch the riddle up once every week or so, and keep binding restricted.

Right now everyone and their dog will be able to get into PoM. ToV/NToV is going to be on a damn near permanent clear, so it won't be hard for people to get in. Unless I'm missing something about ToV (been a long long time), people will just wait for a raid guild to clear, run in and zone in.

[Treats]

In order to tag along behind a raid to get to PoM you are going to have to do the faction work first to even get into North. Even then there was a chance to get wrecked by Ikitiar, he was KoS to all like North. Eashen and them might have been KoS too, I can't remember but I don't think so.

Gonna have to buy a CoH (shame on the people that will sell them).

[Llodd]

Wasn't it possible to run in with 2 or maybe 3 DA's?

[Pscottdai]

Wasn't it possible to run in with 2 or maybe 3 DA's?

yes, DA runs were common. several guides still out there on the net showing the run route and describing it.

[Monty405]

yes, DA runs were common. several guides still out there on the net showing the run route and describing it.

Yes, I did this as a rogue. snuck in as close as I could and DA totem (the one that drops in highpass... i think?) the rest of the way.

I didnt really do much in PoM once there to be honest - it was more to be able to say that i've been there (before shroud of stealth was an AA, at which point I could just walk there anytime if I remember correctly).

[Ele]

Throne rates are super low and since more people will be there than live during our timeline, it won't be worth crap as exp (not that it was great during Velious, just empty and populated by guild mates or tight knit farm friends). If you enjoy farming frenzy solo as a 60, then you will do just fine. The lack of boxing make kills drawn out further reducing the throne rate.

Lack of easy funny money will make the armor all the more difficult to obtain.

[PVP Cleric]

Those who felt special being one of few who accessed PoM on live will lose that on P99 and I think they will be sorely disappointed to see the population inside that zone / having difficulty getting a camp inside.

Consider red PoM!

[Swish]

Consider red PoM!

[Daldaen]

Throne rates are super low and since more people will be there than live during our timeline, it won't be worth crap as exp (not that it was great during Velious, just empty and populated by guild mates or tight knit farm friends). If you enjoy farming frenzy solo as a 60, then you will do just fine. The lack of boxing make kills drawn out further reducing the throne rate.

Lack of easy funny money will make the armor all the more difficult to obtain.

Yep. Gonna get my PR flower and leave I thinks. Dat stacking.

I feel bad for the monks who are going to get all 5.

[nyclin]

PoM here will be a boring farmfest not because people will ruin it (they will), but because there will be no mystery. Everything in the zone is based on publicly-available info, so we know exactly what to expect.

The fun of pre-revamp PoM on live was exploring the zone with your friends and trying to figure things out, not getting gear or resist flowers.