Kill Stealing

[Radicale]

I've just got to get some clarification. Players out of level range are immune to attacks (I get that) and when they engage a monster they transfer that immunity to the mob. I thought this was a red server? Is this policy in place to avoid people from quitting?

[SamwiseRed]

are you being an asshole?

if yes, stop

if no, as you were

[Radicale]

I wish 1% of the posts you make on a daily basis actually had some intellectual value.

[SamwiseRed]

If you are too stupid to realize KSing someone that is out of pvp range is against the rules and a dick move then I cannot help you. Common sense seems to be an attribute lacking among many players around here.

Bobby Hill yiKes

[Cecily]

No, they don't transfer immunity. If they have a camp you can't take with in-range PvP, you need to respect their camp as if it was blue server. No training / no KSing. Read the PnP policy sometime or:

are you being an asshole?

if yes, stop

if no, as you were

[Cecily]

Actually, you're not supposed to KS in-range people either. You kill the person, then the mob.

[Casey VII]

get over it

level up or delevel so you're in range

you're mad because you can't grief people, go play second life or day z

[Colgate]

you're not allowed to kill steal anyone out of pvp range to you

you are allowed to kill steal someone in pvp range to you

[Itap]

Wait, so youre mad that you cant KS someone who is OOR? The fuck is wrong with you

[Glenzig]

you're not allowed to kill steal anyone out of pvp range to you

you are allowed to kill steal someone in pvp range to you

You might want to reword that last part. It's not actually true.

[Pumped]

you can do anything you want if no one is around to witness the crime

[Cecily]

Well I mean kill stealing kinda necessitates at least two people being around by definition.

[SamwiseRed]

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/041/6/6/smurfs__expressing_my_love_for_you_by_oceanfairie-d5uhvp3.png

[Radicale]

I'm not sure why some of you are accusing me of being mad. I guess that's a trigger finger reaction to anyone that tries to ask any type of question. Regardless, one person says you can ks people in level range and another says you can't. This is almost a whole new topic. But what I'm trying to ask is. Blue server KS policy apply to red as well? It just seems odd to me, no reason to hate.

[Cecily]

I'm usually right if I bother to post something.

All of the rules stated in the Project 1999 Play Nice Policy still apply to Project 1999 Red PvP, with the following exceptions:

The PvP Servers are a special case for many of the policies listed here. When one makes the decision to play on a PvP Server, they are in essence agreeing to play on a server where compromise is decided on the basis of who has the power to kill whom.

By the same token, we expect that the people on those servers will apply PvP combat in all situations where it is called for, as a resolution to the problem. As such, the Project 1999 Customer Service Staff will decline to intervene in cases where a PvP alternative exists, such as at disputed spawns where the parties involved have the ability to attack each other.

Please note that this means that kill stealing is still against the rules on Project 1999 Red. If you wish to steal someones kill, it is recommended you kill the player first and then kill their mob.

[Glenzig]

I'm not sure why some of you are accusing me of being mad. I guess that's a trigger finger reaction to anyone that tries to ask any type of question. Regardless, one person says you can ks people in level range and another says you can't. This is almost a whole new topic. But what I'm trying to ask is blue server rules for ks apply to red? Really?

Rule of thumb for red forums. Most of what Colgate posts is either a half truth or a troll.
I'm not sure if he actually thinks you can KS someone in range to you or if he just expressed it poorly.
The actual rule is that you cannot KS someone out of pvp range. In that instance pnp rules apply.
If they are in pvp range, you still cannot KS their mob. What you can do is take the camp by means of pvp, i.e. if you can kill them, you can take their camp and vice versa.

[Pumped]

I'm not sure why some of you are accusing me of being mad. I guess that's a trigger finger reaction to anyone that tries to ask any type of question. Regardless, one person says you can ks people in level range and another says you can't. This is almost a whole new topic. But what I'm trying to ask is. Blue server KS policy apply to red as well? It just seems odd to me, no reason to hate.

holy shit this kid is fuming mad

gonna need a fire extinguisher

[Mr Popo]

In before ban! After ban? Probably both.

[Clark]

Kill Stealing on a pvp server is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in my ENTIRE life.

There aren't rules in PVP. Any game, ever.

[Cecily]

Kill Stealing on a pvp server is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in my ENTIRE life.

There aren't rules in PVP. Any game, ever.

Game: A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules.

Also, what I'm quoted was a post last edited by Sirken. It's still valid. Everquest PvP is not a no-rules environment.
That was Sullon Zek, which isn't the model our Red server follows.

[Radicale]

Thank you Clark. I always thought the people on p99 were legitimate, but I was proven wrong.

[Radicale]

Game: A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules.

Also, what I'm quoted was a post last edited by Sirken. It's still valid. Everquest PvP is not a no-rules environment.
That was Sullon Zek, which isn't the model our Red server follows.

Alright, that's enough for me. Discussion over.

[Sirban]

If you are too stupid to realize KSing someone that is out of pvp range is against the rules and a dick move then I cannot help you. Common sense seems to be an attribute lacking among many players around here.

Bobby Hill yiKes

[Sirban]

You can't KS anyone in any situation. You can only PK the other guy

[Neno]

Cecily you're quoting a GM who was banned for RMT corruption. His rules should hold zero relevance.

that might actually mean something somewhere but it doesn't here.

[Colgate]

shrug, i've been told by sirken that when it comes to ninja looting, killstealing that if they're in range to you, it's legal

[Clark]

Game: A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules.

Also, what I'm quoted was a post last edited by Sirken. It's still valid. Everquest PvP is not a no-rules environment.
That was Sullon Zek, which isn't the model our Red server follows.

Sullon Zek, Rallos Zek, and Zek sure as hell didn't have ANYTHING close to those rules. I've played them all in the past.

People KS'd on all the live pvp servers. People trained all the time. People even tried to xp death people out of range, but more on Sullon for that particular one of course. You guys are trying to infuse fake rules and ideas into a game you either never played on live or played pve instead of pvp. *facepalm* We never saw GMs in game on pvp. They only moderated harassment in OOC/Shout/Severe tells harassment, cheating, and duping.

[Cecily]

Sullon Zek, Rallos Zek, and Zek sure as hell didn't have ANYTHING close to those rules. I've played them all in the past.

People KS'd on all the live pvp servers. People trained all the time. People even tried to xp death people out of range, but more on Sullon for that particular one of course. You guys are trying to infuse fake rules and ideas into a game you either never played on live or played pve instead of pvp. *facepalm* We never saw GMs in game on pvp. They only moderated harassment in OOC/Shout/Severe tells harassment, cheating, and duping.

"PvP rules: Rallos Zek, like non-PvP servers, has "play nice rules". You may not train players, you may not "bard-burn" players, you may not keep a player unconscious, you can't zone camp, you aren't allowed to kill a player at their bind point, and you aren't allowed to intentionally cause a player XP loss. The players do all these things anyway (even the anti-pks), but the threat of being banned is constantly looming over the player's heads."

source: http://www.notacult.com/rallos.html

[Madbad]

Sounds like a few folks here need to go home.

[Technique]

Common sense seems to be an attribute lacking among many players around here.Common sense would dictate that the player with the power to do majority dmg to the mob first and earn loot rights according to the game's internal, codified rules is the one who deserves the loot.

But this is r99, and external policies shaped through years of incessant whining by helpless manchildren dictate what happens here.

[Madbad]

Technique, laying down life lessons here.

[Mudslinger]

Rule of thumb If they are in pvp range, you still cannot KS their mob. What you can do is take the camp by means of pvp, i.e. if you can kill them, you can take their camp and vice versa.
At this point SZ etiquette applies ... you attack the healer let the mob kill the tank and then / assist said contested mob on all remaining players then turn and kill the mob ..... I personally recommend waiting to kill the healer till the group has done most of the work dpsing the mob down but be careful not to let them get it to low one of them might actually get a kill shot on your soon to be mob

[Clark]

Common sense would dictate that the player with the power to do majority dmg to the mob first and earn loot rights according to the game's internal, codified rules is the one who deserves the loot.

But this is r99, and external policies shaped through years of incessant whining by helpless manchildren dictate what happens here.

[Mudslinger]

Everquest PvP is not a no-rules environment.
That was Sullon Zek, which isn't the model our Red server follows.
God I miss SZ

[Clark]

"PvP rules: Rallos Zek, like non-PvP servers, has "play nice rules". You may not train players, you may not "bard-burn" players, you may not keep a player unconscious, you can't zone camp, you aren't allowed to kill a player at their bind point, and you aren't allowed to intentionally cause a player XP loss. The players do all these things anyway (even the anti-pks), but the threat of being banned is constantly looming over the player's heads."

source: http://www.notacult.com/rallos.html

Completely inaccurate. You also never played pvp live...that stuff happened on a daily base, and we never saw GMs ever.

[Cecily]

So you're saying that FoH didn't know what PvP servers were like on live? Ok, I'm done talking to you.

[Tradesonred]

Technique is right. Lots of unintuitive shit going on on red.

Seems like common sense flys out the windows first, and then staff ask themselves questions later.

Heres a sensible policy: Whoever can tag the mob with dmg, gets it. If the high level is following you around and tagging your every mob? Then GMs should get involved. Even then its debatable but at the very least who can DPS more should get a camp.

The problem is the blue mindset that the devs and GMs seem to bring to red. We would have needed someone who understands EQ pvp to run the server. Things like putting in xp loss in pvp, so that Zergs can easily claim a camp (an imported blue poop camp rights mechanic) would probably not have happened. Instead players would have had to play King of the hill with camps and gear would have been much harder to obtain, and it would have been harder for a guild like Nihilum to consolidate power like it did and be able to gear themselves for months and months without challenge (Staff was told repeatedly this would be the outcome). All the while no xp loss in pvp from the get go would have created extremely fun nightly PVP camp challenges without GMs having to lift a finger to create an event. But PVP was viewed as mostly grief, so this alternate reality server never existed. We had the boring pop slowly dying Nihilum fear classic poop camp era.

The irony in that, is in trying to prevent "Bind rushing" AKA pvp happening more than once a night (because clearly beyond once a night, PVP starts to get griefy, this isnt Call of Duty lol), the griefers were given a free hand to grief people off the server (a goal that was even explicitely stated on the forums daily for months, without staff reaction) for i dont remember how long, but a very long time, like 1.5 to 2 years. During this time server went from 600 to 75 peak pop. Feels like this decision to have PVP happen once a night was taken by someone who did not like PVP. Thats a problem.

Same thing with Item loot. OH NO CANT HAVE THAT, TOO RED! Now twinks can run around with fungis all decked out, wasting noobs in rags, never having to worry about losing gear. The consequences of fucking with something that already works (Item loot would have re-created the magnificient Newb pvp and trade hub central zone of Gfay on Rallos Zek) wasnt thought through.

It doesnt seem like the consequences of applying blue rulesets to a pvp server was very much thought through much often. So we get tacked on blue measures that dont really fit a red server, and we get less attention than blue so if bad things are implemented, more often than not they stay in for a long enough time to be detrimental to the server population, until common sense finally kicks in after much kicking and screaming from some vocal members of the community. Exception to the rule was this recent OOC muting reversal, so props to Eunomia for prompt reassessment.

[Tradesonred]

So we get stuff that should never ever leave the Red drawing board such as GMs getting involved in things like ninja looting disputes and KSing policing.

[Fael]

Common sense would dictate that the player with the power to do majority dmg to the mob first and earn loot rights according to the game's internal, codified rules is the one who deserves the loot.

They say common sense isn't common. And you are a good example of why.

Being a wizard or a rogue doesn't earn you a preferred right to loot. The dev team realized that the codified rules have shortcomings and developed gm enforced rules to correct them.

Although I do prefer sullon zek style gaming. I played on sz. I don't pretend common sense has anything to do with my preference.

[Tradesonred]

They say common sense isn't common. And you are a good example of why.

Being a wizard or a rogue doesn't earn you a preferred right to loot. The dev team realized that the codified rules have shortcomings and developed gm enforced rules to correct them.

Although I do prefer sullon zek style gaming. I played on sz. I don't pretend common sense has anything to do with my preference.

But who cares really? if 2 wizards want to suddenly leave a group and nuke the fuck out of a mob so they can loot that body once, so what?

Theyve just been shit listed from that group and their rep takes a hit. Soon enough if they keep doing that theyre gonna find it hard to get a group and starting to get on peoples KOS list. Even if they KS a manastone, its a pvp server, there will be plenty of opportunities to get back at them and refuse them a place in your group.

I dont see how GMs should in any way be involved in this? Its not like you can easily change your name and do the same thing over and over without consequences.

[Technique]

Being a wizard or a rogue doesn't earn you a preferred right to loot. The dev team realized that the codified rules have shortcomings and developed gm enforced rules to correct them.If the game itself allows—nay, stipulates—an action, yet a decree outside the game forbids it under special circumstances, then the issue hasn't been corrected, only confounded.

The PvP level limit already restrains interactions between players of different levels. To extend that protection to world resources such as mobs is bordering on instancing content.

[Fael]

Its not like you can easily change your name and do the same thing over and over without consequences.

hmmmm.

[Tradesonred]

If some guy wants to burn his lvl55 toon for one item ninja, then reroll anonymously for another shot at a ninja loot once hes 55 again, more power to em.

[Glenzig]

shrug, i've been told by sirken that when it comes to ninja looting, killstealing that if they're in range to you, it's legal

I'm sure that's a Colgate only ruling. Certainly isn't in the server rules.