ISK SK

[harryg702]

Hey whats going on guys i was just wondering if an ISK SK a viable option for later lvl raid scene or do i need t pick a different race?

[gildor]

Sure its viable, player ability trumps any race class combination you are going to select

[Nightbear]

maaaaaaaster race

[Pyrocat]

Once velious hits a lot of the downsides to Iksar go away (lack of plate). Eventually the hybrid exp penalty will go away too. By not rolling Ogre (which many consider the minmax "best" race for tanks) you're missing out on some higher starting STA/STR and frontal stun immunity. Eventually (lvl 60 + raid gear + buffs) you'll be maxing STA/STR anyway, so that doesn't matter as much. Frontal stun immunity isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be, especially once you're raiding.

[Roguejm11]

LOL Frontal Stun Immunity...

Warrior's need Frontal Stun Immunity. Because they don't have instant agro and need it. Shadowknights do not.

We have Disease Cloud and Shadow Vortex. We have agro instantly, from range before it's possible for a mob to stun us. and even when we get stunned for the first 1-2 seconds, we don't lose agro because we have already casted said spells, even if they resist it, its enough.

And as Pyrocat pointed out, if you get to the end game, and you are raiding, stuns are not just stuns, they stun everyone it doesn't matter your race. So the ugly ogre still dies just like the human, or dark elf, or iksar.


If you like iksars, they will make great SK's come Velious because of the AC boost and being able to wear the plate armor.

Also like Pryocat pointed out, raid buffed you can pretty easily be 255 in str and sta as a DE, who has the worst stats overall.

[Kelor]

How about getting lifetaps and other stuff off while your tanking as iksar?

[kaev]

How about getting lifetaps and other stuff off while your tanking as iksar?

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of characters casting while tanking are not Ogres, right? There are no Ogre Paladins or Rangers. From what I see non-Ogre SKs and Shamans outnumber the Ogres by a comfortable margin. Hell, my Druid roots mobs while they're beating on him all the time, and he's a leather class and as a Druid he's most assuredly not an Ogre. Frontal stun immunity is not by any stretch of the imagination necessary, it is no more necessary than Ikky/Troll regen or Dorf barrel rolls or Half-elf & Dark-elf good looks.

[Roguejm11]

You do realize that the overwhelming majority of characters casting while tanking are not Ogres, right? There are no Ogre Paladins or Rangers. From what I see non-Ogre SKs and Shamans outnumber the Ogres by a comfortable margin. Hell, my Druid roots mobs while they're beating on him all the time, and he's a leather class and as a Druid he's most assuredly not an Ogre. Frontal stun immunity is not by any stretch of the imagination necessary, it is no more necessary than Ikky/Troll regen or Dorf barrel rolls or Half-elf & Dark-elf good looks.

+1 Upvoting this post.

[webrunner5]

Frontal stun immunity is not by any stretch of the imagination necessary, it is no more necessary than Ikky/Troll regen or Dorf barrel rolls or Half-elf & Dark-elf good looks.

If you don't think Ikky, Troll regen is not a BIG deal on a SK or a Ikky Necro you have never played one. :p

[Roguejm11]

Iksar regen is very noticeable at low levels. At 60 with 2400hp, sitting around still takes for ever. Stand up and life tap. you're a Shadowknight.

[Raev]

At 60 with 2400hp

ouch

[Widan]

I can't imagine trying to play a non Ogre SK. I get mad not being able to spam Flying Kick on my monk when I'm bash stunned, getting spells interrupted would be a nightmare.

[GreldorEQ]

The frontal stun immunity especially comes into play when pulling and trying to split. When you have casters interrupting or breaking your FD already, a stun from a mellee can make things a bit sketchy/deadening.

The 60 FD helps a lot in velious with this problem, but I do know that I valued the stun immunity greatly when pulling ntov back in Velious on my Ogre.

All that said, my alt SK is Iksar. The regen and dreams of a Greenmist (a fun quest) give me drive to play. Without the drive, it doesn't matter what you pick as many others have mentioned. I like to solo, so FD regen is a major plus for me as well. Not to mention, Iksar SKs look pretty cool imo.

[Danth]

Iksar Shadow Knights cast spells the same way everyone else casts spells: Use the ability and wait for it to finish. If it fails, try again. The implied notion that non-ogres are wholly unable to cast spells in combat falls far beyond mere error and into the realm of absurdity.

In four years on my Shadow Knight, I cannot recollect a single instance where Ogre bash resistance might've saved me a death. Not One.

Stun immunity doesn't exist. There's no such thing. Perhaps that misconception is why some folks overvalue it so much. Ogre bash resistance keeps the player from being bashed from the frontal arc. That's it. Ogres are as vulnerable as anyone else to spell stuns, to interrupts from being bashed from behind, to interrupts from push or from channeling failures, or from feign breaking due to trying to feign when monsters are mid-swing or mid-cast or falling to the ground.

The major benefit of the Ogre race is it's significant stat advantage. That matters. The other advantage is the boost in confidence it gives folks who overvalue its racial bonus or to folks who simply don't like being bashed. That's harder to measure. On balance I'd rather have a regeneration racial. Being able to regenerate health when feigned or when hiding in a corner invisible would save me a whole lot more nuisance than not being bashed now and then. Iksars are good for that and make fine Shadow Knights.

Danth

[Grimjaw]

i got 30 bil ISK

[Danth]

ouch

Roughly 2400 hit points is not an atypical unbuffed value for a small-race Shadow Knight (or Paladin) at 60, particularly not for a newer player who doesn't have access to millions of platinum and high-end equipment. My own Shadow Knight (a human), having been 60 awhile but not particularly wealthy, sits at just under 2700 unbuffed. An Ogre in the same gear would have about 3000; an Ogre with full hit points gear (I focus more on AC), more still.

None of those are hopeless figures. Folks don't ordinarily run around fighting difficult things unbuffed. That 2400 would still gain another ~1100 from Cleric buffs, then another 380 from Talisman and about 250 from the Shaman stamina buff. That's over 4100 hit points properly buffed and maybe a little more by switching out a couple pieces of equipment--sufficient to competently tank any standard group content in Kunark. My own character reaches 4500 with full buffs. That's not high-end, but it's not bad either. Some very high-end hybrid tanks may reach or surpass 5000, but they're few and far between.

Danth

[Swish]

can't wait to see 200 iksar SKs lfg, can you?

[ctre]

For sure no "frontal stun immunity" has wiped a raid.
The odds of this happening can be low or high, (depending on the mob).
So to start a raid fight with a Fatty is normally done to remove this initial problem.
Less things to worry about.

[kaev]

For sure no "frontal stun immunity" has wiped a raid.
The odds of this happening can be low or high, (depending on the mob).
So to start a raid fight with a Fatty is normally done to remove this initial problem.
Less things to worry about.

First, even if somebody wanted to buy this argument, this is an SK thread and main-tanking raid mobs is pretty much a warrior issue.

Second, if your raid wipes because the initial MT fails to position the mob correctly due to being stunned, or because the DPS turns the mob while the MT is stunned, the real problem is that your raid force is bad. Frontal stun immunity makes some things much easier, but the absence of frontal stun immunity doesn't wipe a raid. This is EQ, the only things that wipe a raid are being undermanned, getting trained, & being bad. Bring enough people, fraps the asshats (or train 'em back if that's the way the server plays it), and most especially: Don't be bad.

[ctre]

First, even if somebody wanted to buy this argument, this is an SK thread and main-tanking raid mobs is pretty much a warrior issue.

Second, if your raid wipes because the initial MT fails to position the mob correctly due to being stunned, or because the DPS turns the mob while the MT is stunned, the real problem is that your raid force is bad. Frontal stun immunity makes some things much easier, but the absence of frontal stun immunity doesn't wipe a raid. This is EQ, the only things that wipe a raid are being undermanned, getting trained, & being bad. Bring enough people, fraps the asshats (or train 'em back if that's the way the server plays it), and most especially: Don't be bad.

Mehh.
The answer I provided is for both Warrior and SK.
The answer is Accurate and is correct as I pointed out that different bosses create different initial start problems and in some cases are more critical.
For example, in one of the encounters we always used a SK fatty to start the fight, (( and die 90% of the time )) with warriors standing beside him to Hopefully get enough taunt up, and WS flame licking rangers there as a backup.
However like I said, Stun immunity does help a lot in reducing problems when you start the fight and are tank swapping.
That is the only point of this duscussion's focus.

[Pheer]

Roughly 2400 hit points is not an atypical unbuffed value for a small-race Shadow Knight (or Paladin) at 60, particularly not for a newer player who doesn't have access to millions of platinum and high-end equipment. My own Shadow Knight (a human), having been 60 awhile but not particularly wealthy, sits at just under 2700 unbuffed. An Ogre in the same gear would have about 3000; an Ogre with full hit points gear (I focus more on AC), more still.

None of those are hopeless figures. Folks don't ordinarily run around fighting difficult things unbuffed. That 2400 would still gain another ~1100 from Cleric buffs, then another 380 from Talisman and about 250 from the Shaman stamina buff. That's over 4100 hit points properly buffed and maybe a little more by switching out a couple pieces of equipment--sufficient to competently tank any standard group content in Kunark. My own character reaches 4500 with full buffs. That's not high-end, but it's not bad either. Some very high-end hybrid tanks may reach or surpass 5000, but they're few and far between.

Danth

I think full raid buffed in nerd mode min max hp gear i get around 4800~, maybe a little more.