PvP Leaderboards

[Kable]

Just curious as to what the overall opinions and thoughts of Leaderboards are.

On one hand, I don't mind them and think it's a great way to track stats. On the other hand, I don't care for what they promote at all and have never taken them seriously. Every game I've ever played with leaderboards suffered from it being a flawed system due to boosting or exploiting. Here it promotes bind/corpse camping/griefing for leaderboard ranks.

I just started playing here again recently and watched an Enchanter die in PvP to a PK twink and then on his CR/LNS he was cc'd 3x straight by the same twink. Also died an xp death once. Dude didn't ragequit or whine or anything, just sucks he wasted that much time from being griefed.

Come to find out the PK was "atop the pvp leaderboards". I just find these things to be counter productive to a server more than anything. Clearly the SK twink wants an easy playing field and rightfully so, the game allows for that, but at the same time, how hard is it to just kill your targets and then carry on. Why make it a point to be a douche nozzle. Surely this sort of thing happens without leaderboards, but is it commonplace now for this type of behavior with it being in place?

[Colgate]

leaderboards are dumb to take seriously considering how imbalanced classes are and it doesn't give credit for support classes

would love just a pvp kill and /ooc monitor that doesn't track stats

[SamwiseRed]

crushbone leaderboards are dumb. only people who care about them are twinks.

[Fame]

Pras Knights Templar

[daasgoot]

leaderboard doesn't mean much

i was top 100 on shm

top 50 on wiz

and i am fukin terrible at this game

also, majority of top 100 are fungi twinks


kill/death tracker and ooc monitor ftw

point system stupid

support classes get the big shaft

[Madbad]

First of all, I love the insult "douche nozzle" it just rolls right off the tongue.

I personally find the leaderboards to be a useful tool in determining a person's history, habits, gear level, and gauging the likelihood that said person will attack me.

There are, however, ways to exploit the leaderboards. They are also un-bracketed, which allows a twink preying on lowbies to out rank some of the best level 60 PvPers.

All things considered, I take rankings and ratios with a grain of salt, these can fluctuate wildly for the better or worse in a matter of days with just a bit of good/bad luck.

[Fame]

Leaderboards are no indication of player skill. I have been in the top 20 on it for fucks sake lol

[Colgate]

only 5 people out of the top 20 are actually in range to level 60

[Fame]

tbh I would be happy with just a ooc log

[Kable]

Is there someone or a link that explains the rules of the leaderboards? I'm not familiar with them. This is not an attempt to get rid of the leaderboards or anything by the way. I'd rather them exist than not, but for the right reasons and not to promote griefing solely based on the need to be atop the rankings.

[georgie]

It was the greatest idea in the worst way.

[Kable]

Yellow text is great. I hated when this server didn't have it. Also twinks are one of the best parts of EQ. Make no mistake I'm not whining about the LB's. They mean absolutely nothing to me. It's the griefing of players that comes with it. That's what I'm against. VZ/TZ emu had a similar system and it too was flawed and caused a lot of griefing though the /who all system there allowed for it.

[Buhbuh]

Knife and Barcode, by any real PvP standards, are mediocre players. I mean you can't necessarily judge them for never taking a risky fight, but it's certainly something that a leaderboard will never account for, and it's an odd feature that Jeremy keeps up when it's used more as ammo on forum quest/ isn't really a good determiner for top players ( which is the whole point, no?)

[Kable]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a leaderboard that recorded detailed stats like assists, pvp heals, saves, assists counts as kill, etc, etc. Not saying it's even possible but one can dream. Would be a way for support classes get their limelight

[Slathar]

buhbuh sold his tstaff 60 monk for rent money

[Kable]

Lies, buhbuh would never sell his monk

[nottitanuk]

leaderboards are dumb to take seriously considering how imbalanced classes are and it doesn't give credit for support classes

would love just a pvp kill and /ooc monitor that doesn't track stats

vztz had nice leaderboard that gave points to support classes in group

[Fael]

Here is a novel idea:

Naked toons should be immune from all PVP with three exceptions.
1. If the naked toon attacks anyone, global immunity is lost.
2. There is no immunity against the person that killed you, absent LnS.
3. There is no immunity against the guild that killed you, absent force lns, if it involves force on force pvp as defined by the rules.

I'm sick and tired of seeing opportune fucks griefing players on cr's so they can rack up some easy kills on the leader board. It's a douche nozzle thing to do and it happens way too much on this box.

An alternative is to increase the timer on full kill points after death. But I think that's a worse alternative a lot of time because recently killed players are still a threat and those points should count sometimes.

At least the first creates a semi bright line rule for Gms to ban more people with assbergers.

[Tapatio]

LB only matters when you can laugh at people with >250 deaths on 1 character

[FAPhoenix]

I don't care about the ratio unless it is crazy bad ir crazy good. I look to see if people have >20 kills and what zones. That lets me know if the person has the ability to pvp and possibly their level range.

Also to people getting killed on CR...how? I've been killed once on CR I think? I just avoid people when naked. People are generally good enough here to respect LNS if called. And most exceptions seem to be legit mistakes.

[Swish]

most exceptions seem to be legit mistakes.

http://media.giphy.com/media/qs6ev2pm8g9dS/giphy.gif

[Tameth]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/eb/eb471ecf1465dc418b6ac78e1ccbf1bf5b5479ff22cef3a853 6bf67423cb119b.jpg

does this apply?

[Iumuno]

I personally find the leaderboards to be a useful tool in determining a person's history, habits, gear level, and gauging the likelihood that said person will attack me.


And that's all there is to say about it.

Like Colgate said, they don't take into account support classes participation.

What Pvp means is different for everyone. For some it's psychopatic behavior, killing everyone you encounter. As far as I am concerned, what makes EQ pvp interesting is that you can control content i.e. zones. So the leaderboard means nothing to me, except what's quoted above.

[Vile]

yellow text not classic

[Vile]

should just be text when someone dies in pvp...

for example

"PvP has occured in zone X"

or if X deaths happen in Y time... there could be a better message letting the sever know some shit is going down..

otherwise YT just promotes neckbeards going neckbeard

[Madbad]

abolish YT, abolish PnP, abolish global OOC

Disable CSR support for anything not involving hacking or exploiting.

It'll never happen, but it would make me smile.

edit: also screw the xp bonus

[Vile]

all good until screwing the xp bonus.

im all for above if they WIC2015

[Madbad]

I figure if you cut the xp bonus you send home a lot of the folks that are here for uncontested camps and ez mode xp.

Also it makes it slightly more difficult to recover from the ban hammer.

[Vile]

too late after all the sploitin' thats been done

[Kable]

Yellow text was classic sorta..server wide duel messages were originally on live.

[Kable]

I'll never support a server wipe again. 3x was enough on vz/tz. Sploitin was classic too apparently, don't punish the many for the few.

[Vile]

Yellow text was classic sorta..server wide duel messages were originally on live.

duels yes, but not pvp.

if you wanted pr0f someone was killed you'd post a ss

[Madbad]

A server wipe would kill this server's legitimacy.

I want one for purely selfish reasons, I was late to the show.

[Vile]

lets get back to YT.. we know the wipe isn't gonna happen.

i think it definitely causes the annoying ZL battles back and forth.

if most people knew it wouldn't be broadcasted to the whole server that they died.. more people would try to fight.

now it's all about who can do the most burst DPS at a ZL.

[Syft-X]

How come everyone who wants to abolish YT has a negative kill death ratio

What's next get rid of PvP and raid dragons all day, don't we already have another server for that?

[Syft-X]

Nobody has a negative ratio.

More deaths than kills smarten up Beavis

duels yes, but not pvp.

if you wanted pr0f someone was killed you'd post a ss

Sullon Zek had a leaderboard the only way we can have a leaderboard is with YT to track it. Now if they wanted to make a staff run Leaderboard and remove YT fine sounds great, but we have a leaderboard and have had one for years because players wanted it so bad they made one.

So obviously more people want it than don't, you can even opt out of the current leaderboard yet no one has. So if you don;t want to be a part of it opt out.

Same thing with OOC and the people that beg for it to stop, just ignore whoever is making you go so EMO, just because you have thin ass lizardskin doesn't mean everyone should have to do what you do. Man up or shut up.

[BardPop]

Supposedly the 'new' season 2 leaderboard is going to be a lot more advanced compared to the current system, which currently credits lv 10s more points on a lv 10 noobie then a lv 60 gets on a lv 60 noobie. Essentially they are going to remove the point incentives for lower level griefers by making their yts visible but their points far far less then a kill on a higher lv player. I mean if you had to I'd want to just abolish points altogether on low lv players, but supposedly the new board will make them so worth so much less then a 50s player that its going to be marginal anyways. The low lv players will be able to to keep track of who among them is doing the most work but none of their kills will be worth anything compared to a high level kill, a low lv sub 50 player would basically never reach the top 50-75 again.

There was a lot of discussion about this in the other thread and we all agreed on it, and we're basically just waiting for the new board to be released so we can all take a look at it and decide if its as good as it's supposed to be (In comparison to the old board)

[silo32]

if your not in the top 10 I really don't give a fuck what your opinion is

/tears

[Kergan]

The sad part is plenty of other PVP based servers have solved this problem, but for some reason the devs here refuse to open up an API so people who have taken the initiative like Jeremy or Elderan can get access to base level information like player class and level.

Until then a leaderboard will be an incomplete piece of shit, with no fault to the person creating it.

I mean, any of the devn00b/image boxes have an in game leaderboard you don't even need a 3rd party site. SZ had it like Syft mentioned, I don't understand why they don't do it here.

[Karok]

They could improve the yt by also showing class and level of the killer/killed. Which then would allow the 3rd party leader board to split into the griefer board and the leader board.

[Tassador]

Taking this game way to serious.

[Eslade]

Syft confirmed non factor.

[HippoNipple]

Supposedly the 'new' season 2 leaderboard is going to be a lot more advanced compared to the current system, which currently credits lv 10s more points on a lv 10 noobie then a lv 60 gets on a lv 60 noobie. Essentially they are going to remove the point incentives for lower level griefers by making their yts visible but their points far far less then a kill on a higher lv player. I mean if you had to I'd want to just abolish points altogether on low lv players, but supposedly the new board will make them so worth so much less then a 50s player that its going to be marginal anyways. The low lv players will be able to to keep track of who among them is doing the most work but none of their kills will be worth anything compared to a high level kill, a low lv sub 50 player would basically never reach the top 50-75 again.

There was a lot of discussion about this in the other thread and we all agreed on it, and we're basically just waiting for the new board to be released so we can all take a look at it and decide if its as good as it's supposed to be (In comparison to the old board)

Everyone agrees it would be nice but how do you not realize that would be impossible without support form the Devs? The player run leaderboards only have the current YT messages to go off of, which does not disclose levels.

All of the ideas for people to manually input levels are awful.

It would be a simple fix if the Devs would just input peoples levels in the YT message.

"name(34) was defeated by name(36)....."

[Vile]

The code is already there in stock emu code.

It's literally like 5 lines of codes to make a kill worth 6 points total. Divide 6/# in group (so clerics and others get some credit...) and you could give +1 point to the kill shot.

[Macdeth]

Leaderboard is great it reminds me of the time my 51 nec in cloth rags dirtnapped Incognito in Seb

Daephyx Fresh Incognito Empire Old Sebilis 2.23 April 26 2015 10:29:47 PM

YIKES etc.

[grannock]

Leaderboards are fine as long as you dont take them seriously. Notice how the only people that spam leaderboard stats like they mean anything are in the losing guild/s on the server cause they have nothing else.

[Macdeth]

Leaderboards are fine as long as you dont take them seriously. Notice how the only people that spam leaderboard stats like they mean anything are in the losing guild/s on the server cause they have nothing else.

And what do you "have" in a winning guild? 4am video game commitments and a shiny shield? Well done.

[grannock]

Lol, we were farming vp in primetime while you guys were in bear pits. Angry much?

[Macdeth]

Nope. I've never been to the bear pits.

[Bokke]

YT may not be classic but I find it is an enjoyable addition to the server, although it does promote some bad pvp habits.

Leaderboard just makes those pvp habits ever worse. People nuking themselves to avoid YT, HT themselves, etc. Just to preserve a precious KDA. It also encourages people not to take risky fights for fun, because dying means it goes on your permanent record. Mass pvp is also effected.

I think a good compromise between the two is to keep yellow text in, and make the leaderboard only show an un-aggregated history of the kills (no statistics). Id say that it could still show guild on guild statistics but we already know many people drop tag when they are about to die anyway.

[HippoNipple]

And what do you "have" in a winning guild? 4am video game commitments and a shiny shield? Well done.

Lol look at this guy pretend GG doesn't want to kill dragons. No wonder people are leaving for Empire and TMO. These guys can't get laid or kill dragons in elf sim.

[grannock]

Nope. I've never been to the bear pits.

Ure missin out on that dkp brah.

[Kergan]

Lol look at this guy pretend GG doesn't want to kill dragons. No wonder people are leaving for Empire and TMO. These guys can't get laid or kill dragons in elf sim.

SOP around here. If you aren't getting dragons you call the other side no life basement dwellers, if you are getting mobs you tell them to recruit and contest.

[Vile]

SOP around here. If you aren't getting dragons you call the other side no life basement dwellers, if you are getting mobs you tell them to recruit and contest.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/teen-titans-go/images/2/23/Clap.gif/revision/latest?cb=20141218052017

[Macdeth]

Lol look at this guy pretend GG doesn't want to kill dragons. No wonder people are leaving for Empire and TMO. These guys can't get laid or kill dragons in elf sim.

I'm not even in a guild. Nice try though.

[Katrasle]

YT and the leaderboard is a bad mechanism to have on this server due to the behavior it causes. People nuking themselves to avoid a YT still boggles my mind to this day and it has happened far too often to count. It also causes a lot of cowardly behavior.

Example being was a Fandango vs. Exed duel that happened yesterday (supposedly to the death) which resulted in the loser zoning running/plugging to avoid a YT... because I guess that means he didn't really lose. All in all, it's pretty pathetic what people will do to avoid a YT. The same thing happened on Tallon Zek when the leaderboards went up where most of the "best" PvPers were just people who ran around with instant gate potions.

I personally view someone with 50 kills and 25 deaths in higher regard than someone with 100 kills and 1-2 death. The latter most likely hunts easy targets and/or corpse camps people who are afk at their bind, a side effect of YT and the leaderboard.

[Colgate]

hard being me where i have a gr8 record and everyone is an easy target

[SamwiseRed]

some people play safe (near zonelines, plug early), some dont. who cares about kdr, this aint counter strike.

[Genedin]

I literally only hunt and pk random people I know don't have to gear or experience to stand against me because I know it will boost my leader board points.

I really like the leader board.

[grannock]

some people play safe (near zonelines, plug early), some dont. who cares about kdr, this aint counter strike.

Have you ever pvped or spoken with anyone from your guild?

[SamwiseRed]

nope

[Videri]

Have you ever pvped or spoken with anyone from your guild?

Hm, who is this Samwise guy and what guild is he in?

[SamwiseRed]

i heard his brian rotted from classic pixels

[Malevz]

Was thinking yellow text should be prefaced with level range:

1-30
31-55
56-60

That way the leaderboard could filter out all the fungi twinks in crushbone into their own meaningless category.

[cr0ss]

I think it's fine, it just needs better algorithms. First step is to give NEGATIVE points for corpse camping, to discourage that shitty behavior.

[Kergan]

I think it's fine, it just needs better algorithms. First step is to give NEGATIVE points for corpse camping, to discourage that shitty behavior.

How can the leaderboard tell the difference between corpse camping and bind rushing?

[cr0ss]

How can the leaderboard tell the difference between corpse camping and bind rushing?

Timestamps, but it truly cannot. Though, I'd wager 90 times out of 100 it's a corpse camp versus a bind rush. Only class that can bind rush semi effectively is a monk?