The Earth stands on the brink of its sixth mass extinction and the fault is ours

[Tradesonred]

Just another news piece. Lets change the channel and see who won at football today.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/21/mass-extinction-science-warning?CMP=share_btn_tw

"Life on Earth is in trouble. That much we know. But how bad have things become – and how fast are events moving? How soon, indeed, before the Earth’s biological treasures are trashed, in what will be the sixth great mass extinction event? This is what Gerardo Caballos of the National Autonomous University of Mexico and his colleagues have assessed, in a paper that came out on Friday.

These are extraordinarily difficult questions. There are many millions of species, many elusive and rare, and inhabiting remote and dangerous places. There are too few skilled biologists in the field to keep track of them all. Demonstrating beyond reasonable doubt that any single species is extinct is arduous and painstaking (think how long it took to show – to most people, at least – that Loch Ness probably does not harbour a large monster).

And it’s not just a case of making a head-count of modern extinctions. This needs to be compared with a long-term “baseline” rate of extinctions in our planet’s long geological history. This can only be extracted via the equally painstaking and difficult work of excavating and identifying millions of fossils from the almost endless rock strata. Not surprisingly, different studies made so far on different fossils have yielded different baseline rates.

Caballos and colleagues have thought through these difficulties, and come up with probably the most robust estimate yet of how severe the modern crisis is."

[Tradesonred]

More news pieces on this

http://on.rt.com/5s6ow1

http://blink.htcsense.com/web/articleweb.aspx?regionid=4&articleid=43614378

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33209548

[Tradesonred]

To me religion (mainly christian) plays a big part in this outcome, as alot of humans view themselves outside of the natural world and think they are taken care of by god and that whatever happens it was god's will.

Then theres the god complex, where some humans are so enamored of their technical proficiency that they think we will find a solution for everything, even something as complex as trying to repair earth's climate when we cant even be arsed in the west to stop putting all these resources into war while we still have a decent fighting chance of shifting that to stop the irreparable from happening. Imagine when this guy is running the show:

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1407/42/1407429273897.png

My view is humans dont count for shit in the universe. There must be thousands of worlds out there with intelligent life that wont fail as hard as we are failing right now. Were not special and the faster we get this through our heads, the better chances well have of surviving this crisis.

I gotta say im pretty surprised by the pope taking a piss in apocalyptic christians's Cheerios.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/21/exegesis-of-pope-francis-encyclical-call-for-action-on-climate-change

[Orruar]

Well, the last mass extinction helped pave the way for mammals to take over and eventually humans to come about, so I'm hopeful that this current one is a good chance to shake things up and perhaps push us to the next stage of evolution: The Kwisatz Haderach.

[katrik]

To me religion (mainly christian) plays a big part in this outcome, as alot of humans view themselves outside of the natural world and think they are taken care of by god and that whatever happens it was god's will.

Then theres the god complex, where some humans are so enamored of their technical proficiency that they think we will find a solution for everything, even something as complex as trying to repair earth's climate when we cant even be arsed in the west to stop putting all these resources into war while we still have a decent fighting chance of shifting that to stop the irreparable from happening. Imagine when this guy is running the show:

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1407/42/1407429273897.png

My view is humans dont count for shit in the universe. There must be thousands of worlds out there with intelligent life that wont fail as hard as we are failing right now. Were not special and the faster we get this through our heads, the better chances well have of surviving this crisis.

I gotta say im pretty surprised by the pope taking a piss in apocalyptic christians's Cheerios.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/21/exegesis-of-pope-francis-encyclical-call-for-action-on-climate-change

Just walk away.. and we'll spare your lives.. just walk away.

[Magikarp]

Don't get overwhelmed, friend.

The recent Vanuatu crisis (March, 2015) called into action an international movement of relevant and qualified disaster management specialists and elevated the issue of climate change as an agent of increased flood risk potential in remote island nations. This is a very specific aspect of the issue which serves as a solid example of what can occur on a larger scale if unchecked. More examples with price tags and corporate time-lost statistics will help the public understand, but trained professionals are already well aware of what is occurring. Climate change-centric grants are among the easiest to get funded currently.

It's too easy to write scare-stories on this issue, but very difficult to research and report on the multitudinous action being taken and money spent to combat the problems, which must be clearly identified and recoverable for organizations to spend resources on them. Its also a real challenge to measure the success of our mitigation efforts. Its not simple, but the general public should rest assured there are educated people being paid to work on it full time.

Meanwhile just relax, there is absolutely no harm in watching football and enjoying your life. It would be wise to be prepared for a major storm or disaster, but that could be accomplished by spending some time looking up a good list of consumables from a trusted preparedness agency and a couple hours at Wal-Mart. No need to get extreme, though.

As for blaming one's self or including religion in the picture, let me refer you to one of my favorite images:
http://i.imgur.com/2wAz8I4.png

[Visual]

Are you saying we are all going to die some day

[Orruar]

Climate change-centric grants are among the easiest to get funded currently.

That's a big problem. We end up with a lot of junk science in this area, which waters down the actual truth that we are slowly learning. People don't usually act at their most rational when panic hits. Just look at OPs posts for proof of this.

[Whirled]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFfLyYVJmgy9OpSHOJYMXOCLw8-9ZBGzORyxf4p76lzymcI_8u3eSTsMs

[Tradesonred]

Im not over-panicking, people dont get how serious this is. When conservative groups like NASA claims we might wipe civilization out by 2050, people should listen.

This isnt some big storm you can just shelter from with a few stocked cans of beans...

---------

"Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?

Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.

Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!

Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Mayor: All right, all right! I get the point!"

Were gonna have to cross the streams on that motherfucker

http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Dan-Akroyd-Says-No-Bill-Murray-Ghostbusters-31.jpg

[Orruar]

Im not over-panicking, people dont get how serious this is. When conservative groups like NASA claims we might wipe civilization out by 2050, people should listen.

Wow, thanks for proving my point about junk science being believed by panicked people who then base their views on that. A cursory examination (< 5 minutes) of your claim turns up a few key facts you have wrong.

First, NASA didn't make the claim. University researchers who had a grant from NASA made the claim. The primary author is a PhD candidate for this field of study (though he does have a PhD in math, so he should get some credit).

Second, to make this prediction, they use a very simple model. Now, one could debate whether any model could ever be complex enough to accurately predict something as complex as human civilization. I won't start that debate, since nobody in their right mind would think this model is complex enough to achieve that goal.

HANDY is a 4-variable thought-experiment model for interaction of humans and nature.

Read that again and let it sink in. It's a thought experiment. And it attempts to extrapolate the future of mankind using a whole 4 variables. The authors don't even claim it's a realistic possibility, and reading into the model, it's not even very good for such a simple model. I'd have failed a course if I turned that in as a class project. But some sensationalist reporter read more into this shoddy study than was actually there and went for the click-bait title.

This is pretty much exactly what I was talking about when I said that such a rush to fund any and every environmental science research proposal leads to all of the best ideas being washed out by these shitty ones. In less-funded fields, generally only the better ideas get the funding and so you have higher overall quality.

[Tradesonred]

What about the subject of this thread though

[Tasslehofp99]

Are you saying we are all going to die some day

[Slathar]

as long as kim kardashian is on television and america is #1 in the eyes of jesus i welcome climate change lizard men

[Orruar]

What about the subject of this thread though

When you say "fault is ours", I believe you. You are a big part of the problem. People believing in junk science will only do further damage our planet and hopefully those people will either stop being stupid or die off. The sooner we have people making rational decisions, the better.

[Whirled]

George, had some good words about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

[Portasaurus]

Humans are basically a virus on the universe. The destruction of Earth is really a good thing in the long run. I'm fine with this.

[Geck]

lol is this thread for real

[Red_Psyphon]

If you're scared go to church.

[Madbad]

Life will go on, humans however, may not.

I'm fine with this.

[derpcake]

I don't really give a shit about climate or the future.

Its gonna last longer then I do, and I sure as fuck don't want to give up wealth in exchange for a better future for them guys that arrived after me.

Its my camp and I'll shit it up as much is necessary to enjoy it.

I'm probably a bad person for stating the above, and surely still a better person then 99% of society which practices the above but is also a hypocrite.

[Tradesonred]

I don't really give a shit about climate or the future.

Its gonna last longer then I do, and I sure as fuck don't want to give up wealth in exchange for a better future for them guys that arrived after me.

Its my camp and I'll shit it up as much is necessary to enjoy it.

I'm probably a bad person for stating the above, and surely still a better person then 99% of society which practices the above but is also a hypocrite.

Ive noticed this from parents. Solutions are there, but would they even want the solutions if it was right under their nose? Like i cant imagine my uncle under any circumstances giving up his porsche for public transit, no matter how efficient.

Theyll never stop eating meat, even if it means no more amazon rain forest, lungs of the planet.

Stuff like this makes me think were done already, unless when the shit really hits the fan there will still be some room for readjustment.

[Lune]

This is why liberal fascism (basically star trek TNG, not Hitler) is the necessary political system to counter the bacterial impulses of humanity, and the only one capable of doing it. Population reduction through controls on birth rate is basically the best way to solve all of Earth's problems, but Western oligarchic republics are incapable of doing this because muh rights. Too busy with complete and utter self-absorption and wanton consumption of land and natural resources to fuel GDP growth.

[Portasaurus]

We will never change. Wayyyy past the point of no return on our own demise.

Humanity is completely and entirely fucked unless we seriously up our propulsion game and figure out how to expand our virus -- ahem, species -- to other solar systems.

Purely for the sake of other solar systems and planets, I really hope this never happens.

[Champion_Standing]

U guys gonna go cut yourselves after ur done with the angsty humans suck rants?

[Tradesonred]

Literally Darwin Awards

[Champion_Standing]

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/296411/file-1830992166-jpg/images/blog/Fresh-prince-parents-just-dont-understand.jpg

[myriverse]

It's all BS. Life is pretty good, overall.

[Whirled]

See, this is what happens when you ruin your lands.
All those NPC's were trying to teach us a valuable lesson.

[Fame]

The problem is mass denial. We have thumbs and thus, a mechanical existence. This basically means one thing. In a universe that is seemingly infinite, we were never designed to wage war over finite resources. We need to leave Earth.

[Tradesonred]

The problem is mass denial. We have thumbs and thus, a mechanical existence. This basically means one thing. In a universe that is seemingly infinite, we were never designed to wage war over finite resources. We need to leave Earth.

Its probably humanity's destiny if we dont drop the 21st century ball

Capitalism needs to go, or we go.

[Luminari]

We're living in the final days right as we speak. Our generation is literally the final generation on planet Earth. Things are about to get very real on September 23rd when the east coast of the US is wiped out by the asteroid that's coming for us. This event is going to trigger world wide devastation. This planet is doomed and the only way off it is with Jesus on the New Jerusalem.

[Magikarp]

Just looked at the links you posted more closely and it appears they all reference the same two studies.

Thought I'd post some alternative theories just for sake of science:

http://aeon.co/magazine/science/why-extinction-is-not-the-problem/

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/09/debunking-holocene-sixth-mass.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/2011/03/04/greenpeace-cofounder-slams-species-extinction-scare-study-as-proof-of-how-peerreview-process-has-become-corrupted-ndash-study-greatly-underestimate-the-rate-new-species-can-evolve/

According to these and other studies, species are being discovered faster than they're dying off, etc.

Not endorsing any of these claims nor your own. Science is harder than news reports with quoted one-liners from much longer-winded research papers.

[Tradesonred]

People who think the earth is spherical might wanna think again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Dont listen to mainstream scientists

[Thulack]

The world's problem is they have become too smart for their own good. Traveling at crazy speeds at the cost of pollution. Keeping people alive that shouldnt be alive at the cost of money. Overpopulation is what is going to do us in.

[Luminari]

People who think the earth is spherical might wanna think again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Dont listen to mainstream scientists

Lol, the Earth isn't flat. The moon and the sun are clearly spherical so there's no reason to think that the Earth is flat.

[Glenzig]

People who think the earth is spherical might wanna think again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Dont listen to mainstream scientists

You're not serious thought right? Just trolling?

[Tradesonred]

I was chuckling at the climato-sceptic links

[Orruar]

I was chuckling at the climato-sceptic links

Maybe you should spend less time being sarcastic and more time investigating whether your own opinions are based on solid fact. Or do you now accept that the "civilization will fall by 2050" scenario is based on junk science?

[iruinedyourday]

Well, the last mass extinction helped pave the way for mammals to take over and eventually humans to come about, so I'm hopeful that this current one is a good chance to shake things up and perhaps push us to the next stage of evolution: The Kwisatz Haderach.

the robot.

[Luminari]

Maybe you should spend less time being sarcastic and more time investigating whether your own opinions are based on solid fact. Or do you now accept that the "civilization will fall by 2050" scenario is based on junk science?

You wouldn't know science if it smacked you in the face seeing as how you believe in evolution and abiogenesis.

[Rhambuk]

Climate change,
It's natural, happens with or without us. Should cull our numbers down a bit though.

[Tiewon Shu]

But humans, humans are good, right? We aren't talking about our extinction, just some tigers and dolphins that will eventually be replaced by something else on the food chain like it has been the past billion years or so?

But fear not tree huggers! Soon the zombie will emerge and eat all humankind, then each other, then the world will reset itself again.

[myriverse]

You wouldn't know science if it smacked you in the face seeing as how you believe in evolution and abiogenesis.
...

Oh, the irony....

[Luminari]

...

Oh, the irony....

I know, that was my point. The irony of people claiming to adhere to science that believe in things that have zero basis in science. Science requires both observation and experimentation of which evolution and abiogenesis provide neither of. Only people who have no clue whatsoever about science actually believe these things because they are too dumb to actually think for themselves.

[Humerox]

the robot.

ah yes the technological singularity

incoming to your town in 5 to 100 years give or take

humans are only a step on the evolutionary ladder
and robots will actually be able to accurately claim they didn't share ancestry with chimps

[Luminari]

and robots will actually be able to accurately claim they didn't share ancestry with chimps

We don't share ancestry with chimps either so I don't get your point.

[mgellan]

I know, that was my point. The irony of people claiming to adhere to science that believe in things that have zero basis in science. Science requires both observation and experimentation of which evolution and abiogenesis provide neither of. Only people who have no clue whatsoever about science actually believe these things because they are too dumb to actually think for themselves.

What does evolution have to do with abiogenesis? Do you need to know intimate details of what the initial state of a process is to believe that there actually is a process at work, especially when there are multiple converging but independant lines of evidence for the existence of this process?

Seems like you're conflating the two concepts to justify lack of acceptance of the current scientific consensus. Don't claim to base your opinions on science when you're making elementary mistakes.

Regards,
Mg

[Luminari]

What does evolution have to do with abiogenesis? Do you need to know intimate details of what the initial state of a process is to believe that there actually is a process at work, especially when there are multiple converging but independant lines of evidence for the existence of this process?

Seems like you're conflating the two concepts to justify lack of acceptance of the current scientific consensus. Don't claim to base your opinions on science when you're making elementary mistakes.

Regards,
Mg

My point is that there is no scientific basis for either abiogenesis or evolution. All observations and experiments refute both ideas. First, life can only come from life so we can automatically rule out abiogenesis. Second, organisms can only produce more of what they already are so we can rule out evolution as well. Bacteria remains bacteria. Birds remain birds. Bees remain bees. Ants remain ants. Cats remain cats. Dogs remain dogs. Nothing evolves.

Only idiots believe this shit considering all observable and experimental evidence contradicts it. Then these same morons think they are the ones that actually understand science lol. No wonder this country and world are collapsing. Up has become down. Left has become right. Light has become dark. Truth has become lies. There's wayyyy to many dumb fucking people.

[Lojik]

There's wayyyy to many dumb fucking people.

Tell me about it. The worst part is they don't even know how fucking dumb they are, they think they're fucking geniuses

[Itap]

Bacteria remains bacteria. Birds remain birds. Bees remain bees. Ants remain ants. Cats remain cats. Dogs remain dogs. Nothing evolves.


Do you also believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old?

And Dinosaur fossils are created out of rock and plaster?

[Jimjam]

Humming birds exist because God decided bees are stupid and dinosaurs are awesome so decreed dinosaurs should become the new conductors of the business of bees.

[Fael]

Guy believes the world and humanity is about to end, and he spends his time playing 16 year old elf simulators. Is it just me or is the OP a terrible person with an extreme lack of conviction about what he believes...

[myriverse]

I know, that was my point. The irony of people claiming to adhere to science that believe in things that have zero basis in science. Science requires both observation and experimentation of which evolution and abiogenesis provide neither of. Only people who have no clue whatsoever about science actually believe these things because they are too dumb to actually think for themselves.
The irony is that you claim to understand any science. You clearly don't.

[myriverse]

And even more ironic is that creationism is just as supportive of abiogenesis.

[Luminari]

Do you also believe the Earth is only a few thousand years old?

And Dinosaur fossils are created out of rock and plaster?

No. The Earth is very old and dinosaurs in no way evidence for evolution whatsoever. In fact, fossils disprove evolution because there are countless living fossils. AKA creatures that are extremely old and found in the fossil record dating back millions of years that still exist today. No evolution whatsoever. Still the same exact creature it was 100-500 million years ago as it is today. We've got 2 billion year old preserved bacteria specimens that are identical to the modern day version. Every living organism remains what it is, period.

"The irony is that you claim to understand any science. You clearly don't."

No idiot, it's you that doesn't. People like you are everything that is wrong with this world. You're so fucking dumb it's a joke. You're so incapable of comprehending how basic scientific principles work that it's a joke. Your entire existence is a fucking joke.

And even more ironic is that creationism is just as supportive of abiogenesis.

This sentence doesn't even make sense idiot.

[Aviann]

If you want to find proof behind evolution, quit looking for it in the bible, and quit looking for it in the bones of animals that went extinct millions of years ago. I offer you a new sight to indulge into that is both real and currently active in terms of life.

The birds of the Galapagos islands are the most resourceful understanding of how evolution happens to this day, and are still alive to document the changes in, much as they were being documented when Darwin was around.

If you actually believe that evolution doesn't happen, you are purely ignorant and stupid, and I can't wait until the human race evolves even further, hopefully leaving your illogical fallacies behind it.

[Lojik]

This sentence doesn't even make sense idiot.

Yah who starts a sentence with a conjunction?

[Itap]

No. The Earth is very old and dinosaurs in no way evidence for evolution whatsoever. In fact, fossils disprove evolution because there are countless living fossils. AKA creatures that are extremely old and found in the fossil record dating back millions of years that still exist today. No evolution whatsoever. Still the same exact creature it was 100-500 million years ago as it is today. We've got 2 billion year old preserved bacteria specimens that are identical to the modern day version. Every living organism remains what it is, period.

My question was sincere, I actually work with a guy that does not believe in Dinosaurs or that the Earth is millions of years old

[Rararboker]

Lol, happened 5 times in the past, immediately thinks the 6th cycle is human fault. Good logic.

[Luminari]

The birds of the Galapagos islands are the most resourceful understanding of how evolution happens to this day, and are still alive to document the changes in, much as they were being documented when Darwin was around.

The birds stay birds. They didn't evolve from something that wasn't a bird and they will never evolve into something that isn't a bird. This is the part evolutionists don't seem to grasp.

[Jimjam]

Guy believes the world and humanity is about to end, and he spends his time playing 16 year old elf simulators. Is it just me or is the OP a terrible person with an extreme lack of conviction about what he believes...

The real question is whether this wipe will happen before or after velious!

[Tradesonred]

Yeah i spend all my waking hours playing EQ, great assessment, i cant wait to hear you speak about the anthropocene.

[Humerox]

We don't share ancestry with chimps either so I don't get your point.

Yeah we do. You haven't seen my brother.

[Humerox]

The birds stay birds. They didn't evolve from something that wasn't a bird and they will never evolve into something that isn't a bird. This is the part evolutionists don't seem to grasp.

http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2013/38/6e88fdd20e03933129f1a2027e0e92d150a1516e.jpg

[Magikarp]

The birds stay birds. They didn't evolve from something that wasn't a bird and they will never evolve into something that isn't a bird. This is the part evolutionists don't seem to grasp.

Oh you're in deep. You may never recover from the poison that has been given to you.

There is hope. I have the antidote (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=proof+of+speciation).

Only you may administer it. WARNING: This could take minutes, hours even to set in, but healing can only begin when the process is started.

There is a whole wide world waiting for you at the end of your rehabilitation. You can do it. Take it slow.

[Jimjam]

I don't see how living fossils disprove evolution? Surely the logic behind the idea of evolution also suggests evolution stagnates when an effective form is reached?

I'm also interested in which part of evolution you disagree with: that mutations occur, that organisms reproduce and can pass on these mutations or that different mutations will differently affect an organisms chances of survival (thus affecting which mutations persist and which die out)?

Or do you simply refute the idea that a population of organisms can accumulate a sufficient amount of mutations that it will no longer be genetically compatible with a separate (previously similar) population?

[Luminari]

Oh you're in deep. You may never recover from the poison that has been given to you.

There is hope. I have the antidote (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=proof+of+speciation).

Only you may administer it. WARNING: This could take minutes, hours even to set in, but healing can only begin when the process is started.

There is a whole wide world waiting for you at the end of your rehabilitation. You can do it. Take it slow.

You're fucking retarded. Birds remain birds, period. Sure there can be slight differences from one bird to the next but it's always going to remain a bird you dumb fuck. It's NEVER going to evolve into something other than a bird. Birds have been birds since the moment their genetic code was created and they were brought into the world and they'll remain birds until they either go extinct or until time comes to an end. Same goes for literally every living organism imaginable. We see bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics BUT IT ALWAYS REMAINS BACTERIA YOU DUMB MOTHER FUCKER.

[theaetatus]

Birds have been birds since the moment their genetic code was created and they were brought into the world and they'll remain birds until they either go extinct or until time comes to an end.

Yeah, they have been birds since they evolved from something else. Do you think they just magically poofed into existence as birds?

[Luminari]

I don't see how living fossils disprove evolution? Surely the logic behind the idea of evolution also suggests evolution stagnates when an effective form is reached?

Because it shows that no amount of time will cause one type of creature will turn into another. It's NEVER been seen to occur. It CANNOT be reproduced via any experiment. Those two facts combined with the fact that even 500 million years is not sufficient time to induce a change completely disproves the idea of evolution from one kind to another.

Or do you simply refute the idea that a population of organisms can accumulate a sufficient amount of mutations that it will no longer be genetically compatible with a separate (previously similar) population?

No. The idea that single celled organisms turned into animals and other advanced life forms. The idea that sea dwelling creatures became land dwelling creatures and vice versa. Fish will always be fish. Whales will always be whales. If it's a sea dwelling creature it will always be one. If it's a land dwelling creature it will always be one. If it's an amphibian it will always be one. No evidence exists whatsoever that demonstrates anything I just said to be false. Science REQUIRES observation and experimentation. These aren't fucking optional like so many dumb fucks apparently think.

[Tradesonred]

You're fucking retarded. Birds remain birds, period. Sure there can be slight differences from one bird to the next but it's always going to remain a bird you dumb fuck. It's NEVER going to evolve into something other than a bird. Birds have been birds since the moment their genetic code was created and they were brought into the world and they'll remain birds until they either go extinct or until time comes to an end. Same goes for literally every living organism imaginable. We see bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics BUT IT ALWAYS REMAINS BACTERIA YOU DUMB MOTHER FUCKER.

Meet our ancestor, "homo" purgatorius (Its a rat monkey, or monkey rat whichever suits your fancy). Doesnt really look like a human monkey to me.

http://www.paleocene-mammals.de/purgatorius.jpg

[Luminari]

Yeah, they have been birds since they evolved from something else. Do you think they just magically poofed into existence as birds?

Birds can only come from birds though moron. That's the problem. They had to have been created from day 1 as they are since something that isn't a bird can't magically evolve into one. Have you ever seen a bird that didn't come from another bird retard? I've probably seen a million different birds throughout my life time and I guaranfuckingtee that every single one of them came from another bird before it. I also guarantee they'll all create more birds just like themselves.

[Tradesonred]

Birds can only come from birds though moron. That's the problem. They had to have been created from day 1 as they are since something that isn't a bird can't magically evolve into one. Have you ever seen a bird that didn't come from another bird retard? I've probably seen a million different birds throughout my life time and I guaranfuckingtee that every single one of them came from another bird before it. I also guarantee they'll all create more birds just like themselves.

and what do you guesstimate Day 1's date? 2 thousand years ago? Ballpark it for us

[Jimjam]

Because it shows that no amount of time will cause one type of creature will turn into another. It's NEVER been seen to occur. It CANNOT be reproduced via any experiment. Those two facts combined with the fact that even 500 million years is not sufficient time to induce a change completely disproves the idea of evolution from one kind to another.It certainly shows those specific creatures have not significantly changed over an extended period of time. Living fossil, btw, simply means a creature's closest relatives are extinct.



No. The idea that single celled organisms turned into animals and other advanced life forms. The idea that sea dwelling creatures became land dwelling creatures and vice versa. Fish will always be fish. Whales will always be whales. If it's a sea dwelling creature it will always be one. If it's a land dwelling creature it will always be one. If it's an amphibian it will always be one. No evidence exists whatsoever that demonstrates anything I just said to be false. Science REQUIRES observation and experimentation. These aren't fucking optional like so many dumb fucks apparently think.

So you're saying variation can occur within one type of animal? But with provision that should a population of one type of animal be some how separated those two populations would never accumulate sufficient variation to be incompatible if they were to reunite?

[Tradesonred]

http://i1.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/78777891-e1385502100377.jpg?resize=632%2C356

[paulgiamatti]

Is Luminari G13?

[Tradesonred]

I guess stars just poof into existence as well

You know, since ive never seen a gas cloud become a star before

[Lojik]

Luminari do you believe dinosaurs and humans coexisted?

[Luminari]

I guess stars just poof into existence as well

You know, since ive never seen a gas cloud become a star before

No they're created just like everything else. Only complete fucking retards think that ultra complex things can magically form on their own.

[Jimjam]

No they're created just like everything else. Only complete fucking retards think that ultra complex things can magically form on their own.

What about complex things formed by lots of simple systems interacting in a way that produces (the illusion) of chaos/complexity?

[Champion_Standing]

Evolution is Gods plan, discuss.

[Luminari]

and what do you guesstimate Day 1's date? 2 thousand years ago? Ballpark it for us

No clue nor does it matter. It was a very long time ago and nobody knows exactly.

Luminari do you believe dinosaurs and humans coexisted?

Irrelevant. Whether they did or didn't doesn't change the fact that one type of creature can't become another.

Evolution is Gods plan, discuss.

Then why has nobody in all of history ever seen it occur?

[Jimjam]

Then why has nobody in all of history ever seen it occur?

Firstly, God moves in mysterious ways. If you believe in God you can't question his plan like this.

Secondly evolution is described as a process that happens in small increments over many generations. Hypothetical example, God wanted dinosaurs to replace bees. What wouldn't happen was one day a dinosaur laid an egg containing a baby humming bird.

Instead what would happen were near countless apparently random changes across the generations (including many dead ends) until eventually there was a tiny flying dinosaur (bird) variant that would pollenate the plants instead of bees.

Being a process that takes longer than the lifespan of a human means it is not something a single person can 'see', unlike evolution in the pokemon games where the entire change happens to one specimen instantly. There are ways to look for evidence of evolution (oh look, the creatures slowly change thru the fossil record to become smaller, more feathery and more nectar loving), but such an approach requires inference "perhaps some dinosaurs evolved into humming birds and these fossils represent intermediately stages?".

[Itap]

This guy is REALLY mad. Please don't mace anybody

[Luminari]

Firstly, God moves in mysterious ways. If you believe in God you can't question his plan like this.

Secondly evolution is described as a process that happens in small increments over many generations. Hypothetical example, God wanted dinosaurs to replace bees. What wouldn't happen was one day a dinosaur laid an egg containing a baby humming bird.

Instead what would happen were near countless apparently random changes across the generations (including many dead ends) until eventually there was a tiny flying dinosaur (bird) variant that would pollenate the plants instead of bees.

Being a process that takes longer than the lifespan of a human means it is not something a single person can 'see', unlike evolution in the pokemon games where the entire change happens to one specimen instantly. There are ways to look for evidence of evolution (oh look, the creatures slowly change thru the fossil record to become smaller, more feathery and more nectar loving), but such an approach requires inference "perhaps some dinosaurs evolved into humming birds and these fossils represent intermediately stages?".

This is literally impossible. There's something called the genetic code. Each code is unique to each individual creature. That's why all living things can only produce more copies of what they already are. Something that isn't a bird can't turn into one. Something that isn't a bee can't turn into one.

This is the exact reason why extinction occurs in the first place. Why are there no more dodo birds? The reason is because the only thing that can make a dodo bird, IS a dodo bird. There isn't anything evolving into one nor did they evolve into anything else. They are all dead and therefor no more dodo birds, ever.

Rhino's are on the verge of extinction. Why? Because the only thing that can make a rhino IS a rhino. There isn't anything evolving into a rhino. Once they're all dead, that's it, no more rhino's, ever again. Until of course someone comes along and figures out how to make the genetic code for one and recreates them. Just like they were created in the first place.

It's like the question of the chicken and the egg. Which came first? Well, you need chickens to make chicken eggs and you need a chicken egg to even get a chicken. Their existence is a paradox. The only logical explanation is that one had to be created for the process to begin and their origin has to be supernatural since it's a literal impossibility for their origin to have a natural cause.

[Humerox]

This is literally impossible. There's something called the genetic code. Each code is unique to each individual creature. That's why all living things can only produce more copies of what they already are.

You DO realize that the more you write the more you reveal an apparent lack of education, right? I'd rather believe you were a semi-skilled troll simply arguing for the sake of it. I'd say the same to any other biblical creationist that denies macro-evolution. It's much easier for you to accept that some old dude in the sky who watches you masturbate waved his bony fingers and "poof" everything was there. Only one book anybody needs, right?

Either way the arguments you bring up don't even credit a response, simply because they're so fundamentally and provably wrong, especially by recent advances that have been made in science. But it's not my job to educate you...and people like you don't want to be educated because it terrifies you.

[Jimjam]

This is literally impossible. There's something called the genetic code. Each code is unique to each individual creature. That's why all living things can only produce more copies of what they already are. Something that isn't a bird can't turn into one. Something that isn't a bee can't turn into one.
Yes, but what if the mechanisms by which organisms create copies of their genetic code is 'flawed'? Meaning at times errors creep in to the copies. Most of the time these errors are either unimportant or are damaging to an organism. Creatures carrying such errors will tend to die in vitro or before reproduction. Occasionally errors can actually lead to inadvertent improvements. Perhaps a slightly more efficient enzyme that makes a process easier for the organism to carry out. Organisms with these beneficial 'errors' have an advantage over other organisms of their type, meaning these organisms are more likely to reach sexual production and pass on these 'beneficial errors'.

This is the exact reason why extinction occurs in the first place. Why are there no more dodo birds? The reason is because the only thing that can make a dodo bird, IS a dodo bird. There isn't anything evolving into one nor did they evolve into anything else. They are all dead and therefor no more dodo birds, ever.

Rhino's are on the verge of extinction. Why? Because the only thing that can make a rhino IS a rhino. There isn't anything evolving into a rhino. Once they're all dead, that's it, no more rhino's, ever again. Until of course someone comes along and figures out how to make the genetic code for one and recreates them. Just like they were created in the first place. Agreed, only a Dodo can make a dodo. The reason extinctions happen because organisms are unable to reproduce at a rate that meets the rate at which they die and if they all die out there is no way to create new ones.
Note, although it is suggested that evolution can produce similar creatures (some of the ancient sea reptiles have some physical similarities to modern sea mammals such as dolphins) the similarity is superficial. The chance for any one species to evolve is so remote that for it to evolve a second time in a genetically compatible way is close enough to impossible so I suppose we also agree that there is no way extinct animals can come back into existence by 'evolving again'. At best a fairly similar looking/functioning animal might evolve.

It's like the question of the chicken and the egg. Which came first? Well, you need chickens to make chicken eggs and you need a chicken egg to even get a chicken. Their existence is a paradox. The only logical explanation is that one had to be created for the process to begin and their origin has to be supernatural since it's a literal impossibility for their origin to have a natural cause. Eggs aren't exclusive to chickens. If anything, the eggistence of eggs is an argument towards shared lineage of creatures.

An evolutionist would argue that creatures slowly evolved solutions to protect their young, resulting in what we call 'eggs' and this solution was so effective it was preserved by most of their descendent species.

[paulgiamatti]

Seems like as good of a time as any to revisit this Louis CK outtake (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzHzlMneaeQ).

[Luminari]

You DO realize that the more you write the more you reveal an apparent lack of education, right? I'd rather believe you were a semi-skilled troll simply arguing for the sake of it. I'd say the same to any other biblical creationist that denies macro-evolution. It's much easier for you to accept that some old dude in the sky who watches you masturbate waved his bony fingers and "poof" everything was there. Only one book anybody needs, right?

Either way the arguments you bring up don't even credit a response, simply because they're so fundamentally and provably wrong, especially by recent advances that have been made in science. But it's not my job to educate you...and people like you don't want to be educated because it terrifies you.

I guess you think Sir Isaac Newton is a moron too as well?

"“How came the bodies of animals to be contrived with so much art, and for what ends were their several parts?
Was the eye contrived without skill in Opticks, and the ear without knowledge of sounds?...and these things being rightly dispatch’d, does it not appear from phænomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent...?”
― Isaac Newton, Opticks

Fucking retard.

[Humerox]

I guess you think Sir Isaac Newton is a moron too as well?

"“How came the bodies of animals to be contrived with so much art, and for what ends were their several parts?
Was the eye contrived without skill in Opticks, and the ear without knowledge of sounds?...and these things being rightly dispatch’d, does it not appear from phænomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent...?”
― Isaac Newton, Opticks

Fucking retard.

Oh gee, you just decked me with some quote from an 18th century physicist.

Chromosome 2, pal. Go for it. Let's see what you know.

[Humerox]

Hey! No googling, fool.

[Luminari]

Yes, but what if the mechanisms by which organisms create copies of their genetic code is 'flawed'? Meaning at times errors creep in to the copies. Most of the time these errors are either unimportant or are damaging to an organism. Creatures carrying such errors will tend to die in vitro or before reproduction. Occasionally errors can actually lead to inadvertent improvements. Perhaps a slightly more efficient enzyme that makes a process easier for the organism to carry out. Organisms with these beneficial 'errors' have an advantage over other organisms of their type, meaning these organisms are more likely to reach sexual production and pass on these 'beneficial errors'.

Errors in the copies are called birth defects. You're basically arguing that non flying creatures had birth defects that made them grow wings and suddenly were able to fly.


The chance for any one species to evolve is so remote that for it to evolve a second time in a genetically compatible way is close enough to impossible

No, it IS impossible. There's ZERO chance of it ever occurring. That's why NOBODY has ever seen it occur nor will they ever.





Eggs aren't exclusive to chickens. If anything, the eggistence of eggs is an argument towards shared lineage of creatures.

Chicken eggs ARE exclusive to chickens though so your point is completely irrelevant. Just like the eggs of each type of creature that lays them is unique to that specific creature.

An evolutionist would argue that creatures slowly evolved solutions to protect their young, resulting in what we call 'eggs' and this solution was so effective it was preserved by most of their descendent species.

How the fuck would a creature that doesn't lay eggs know how to make one? Does it just go "hmm should would be a good idea if I produced eggs". Either it lays eggs or it doesn't. There's no fucking way it's just going to start laying eggs one day. All of the components for egg laying have to be there simultaneously.

“How came the bodies of animals to be contrived with so much art, and for what ends were their several parts?
Was the eye contrived without skill in Opticks, and the ear without knowledge of sounds?...and these things being rightly dispatch’d, does it not appear from phænomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent...?”
― Isaac Newton, Opticks

Think long and hard about this quote. How the fuck does an eye slowly evolve? There are thousands of parts that make up an eye. How would a creature even know that it needs eyes when it doesn't have any idea what sight even is? Like god damn, use your brain please.

[Humerox]

Chromosome 2, pal. Still waiting. Been enough time for you to google the tie-in to this discussion.

Step up.

Or you can smack me down with some more 18th century poetic wisdom. Or 2,000 year-old hypotheses. Take your pick.

[Jimjam]

(edit: this post was in response to the newton quote)
Yes, creatures are so well adapted it is hard to believe they weren't created by design.

No creature is perfect though. There are plenty of genetic disorders, and even design flaws, which is something evolution predicts, but doesn't make do much sense in an intelligent design model.

Evolution suggests complex structures such as the eye are the result of many generations of incremental beneficial changes. It also suggests evolution of such structures is a rare occurrence but the structure itself will become common as it will be passed on to all the decedents of the type of creature in which it first evolved.

[Jimjam]

Errors in the copies are called birth defects. You're basically arguing that non flying creatures had birth defects that made them grow wings and suddenly were able to fly. More or less. I'm suggesting evolutionists argue that should a creature have a birth defect which happens to be beneficial, then in further generations that inherited birth defect may be refined to become more and more beneficial. Perhaps one little dinosaur had a defect that caused it to grow long furry scales, but this helped it keep warm so it survived and reproduced. More defects accumulated and the functionality of this special scales increased and could even help the little dinosaur leap and glide between trees? End product: Dinosaurs replace bees as humming birds.



No, it IS impossible. There's ZERO chance of it ever occurring. That's why NOBODY has ever seen it occur nor will they ever. That's the essence of my point on why rhinos/dodos don't 're-evolve'.


Chicken eggs ARE exclusive to chickens though so your point is completely irrelevant. Just like the eggs of each type of creature that lays them is unique to that specific creature.

How the fuck would a creature that doesn't lay eggs know how to make one? Does it just go "hmm should would be a good idea if I produced eggs". Either it lays eggs or it doesn't. There's no fucking way it's just going to start laying eggs one day. All of the components for egg laying have to be there simultaneously. A genetic defect again that causes the creature to be covered in some kind of protective layer. Perhaps especially slimey mucus. Over generations perhaps a further defect would be for this mucus to have a leathery skin? Other further generations this skin becomes more calcified for extra protection?



Think long and hard about this quote. How the fuck does an eye slowly evolve? There are thousands of parts that make up an eye. How would a creature even know that it needs eyes when it doesn't have any idea what sight even is? Like god damn, use your brain please.
Good question. As a thought experiment, how would you imagine a type of creature goes from no eyes to eyes? Don't be afraid to include plenty of intermediary stages and don't forget that each successive mutation needs to be beneficial in its own right !

[Humerox]

His entire argument is about macroevolution. It's the gold standard for creationists because people don't live long enough to observe it therefore it's not credible.

To them, lol.

It's bush-league stuff but the more you whack them with science the more "but no, it's magic!" you get.

And some of them have the audacity to call other people retards. Ignorance is bliss.

[Luminari]

His entire argument is about macroevolution. It's the gold standard for creationists because people don't live long enough to observe it therefore it's not credible.

To them, lol.

It's bush-league stuff but the more you whack them with science the more "but no, it's magic!" you get.

And some of them have the audacity to call other people retards. Ignorance is bliss.

What part of OBSERVATION and EXPERIMENTATION do you not quite get you dumb fuck? If it can't be observed or experimentally reproduced, it isn't science you dumb piece of shit. I know your IQ is in the single digits but holy fuck. You can't even grasp basic scientific principles. You're a fucking embarrassment and so is everyone else who thinks evolution is scientific. There is no special magical exception for evolution that just gets to insert "but but, billions of years!" into the equation.

The bottom line is, can anyone observe it? Nope. Can anyone reproduce it via any sort of experiment? Nope. Then. It's. Not. Science. You. Dumb. Fuck.

[Glenzig]

Chromosome 2, pal. Still waiting. Been enough time for you to google the tie-in to this discussion.

Step up.

Or you can smack me down with some more 18th century poetic wisdom. Or 2,000 year-old hypotheses. Take your pick.

Are you referencing the deletion syndrome?

[Magikarp]

You're fucking retarded. Birds remain birds, period. Sure there can be slight differences from one bird to the next but it's always going to remain a bird you dumb fuck. It's NEVER going to evolve into something other than a bird. Birds have been birds since the moment their genetic code was created and they were brought into the world and they'll remain birds until they either go extinct or until time comes to an end. Same goes for literally every living organism imaginable. We see bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics BUT IT ALWAYS REMAINS BACTERIA YOU DUMB MOTHER FUCKER.

Instant emotional defensive rage.

I did all I can. There is no hope for you.

[Humerox]

What part of OBSERVATION and EXPERIMENTATION do you not quite get you dumb fuck? If it can't be observed or experimentally reproduced, it isn't science you dumb piece of shit. I know your IQ is in the single digits but holy fuck. You can't even grasp basic scientific principles. You're a fucking embarrassment and so is everyone else who thinks evolution is scientific. There is no special magical exception for evolution that just gets to insert "but but, billions of years!" into the equation.

The bottom line is, can anyone observe it? Nope. Can anyone reproduce it via any sort of experiment? Nope. Then. It's. Not. Science. You. Dumb. Fuck.

Oh...not spouting 18th century physicists' poetry anymore?

You DO realize that macroevolution (I really hate using that term because it really doesn't exist...macroevolution is only microevolution over a long period of time) or the evolution of life forms beyond the species level, has been OBSERVED in laboratory conditions and in nature right?

You're arguing against something that has already proven scientifically. You know, using the scientific method and all.

But I wouldn't expect you to know that because you're used to arguing with the other people in your 5th-grade class.

And you must be MAD, btw.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY3wcrXaxQ3xLOXQRDHmNwdQY_NVyTl 0ysWVReAoH-7A2dVB0x

[Luminari]

Oh...not spouting 18th century physicists' poetry anymore?

You DO realize that macroevolution (I really hate using that term because it really doesn't exist...macroevolution is only microevolution over a long period of time) has been OBSERVED in laboratory conditions and in nature right?

You're arguing against something that has already proven scientifically. You know, using the scientific method and all.

But I wouldn't expect you to know that because you're used to arguing with the other people in your 5th-grade class.

And you must be MAD, btw.

K, show me the experiment demonstrating it then dumb fuck. Going to show me E. Coli turning into E. Coli? Or peppered moths turning into peppered moths? You're fucking retarded just like every other evolutionist.


Instant emotional defensive rage.

I did all I can. There is no hope for you.

Couldn't possibly be more the other way around. You're not only hopeless but a complete fucking waste of human life. Go drink more sodium fluoridated water and get some more vaccines thinking they're good for you dumb fuck.

[Magikarp]

Lum, I know of this group of like-minded people you may get along with really well.

https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/isis-army-700x430.png

[paulgiamatti]

Go drink more sodium fluoridated water and get some more vaccines thinking they're good for you dumb fuck.

lol

[Humerox]

K, show me the experiment demonstrating it then dumb fuck. Going to show me E. Coli turning into E. Coli? Or peppered moths turning into peppered moths? You're fucking retarded just like every other evolutionist.

Experiments like these you mean?

Turning Lobsters Into Fruit Flies (https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/articles/2002/2/22/genetic-alchemy-turning-lobsters-into-fruit-flies/)

And you're an antivaccinist too?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNHk6dW5s4ElTEerUckxkqaMB6d2q2N M7Af6WEYvX6qEjNlnHMxQ

[Pokesan]

Couldn't possibly be more the other way around. You're not only hopeless but a complete fucking waste of human life. Go drink more sodium fluoridated water and get some more vaccines thinking they're good for you dumb fuck.


oh boy!

thank you

[Luminari]

Experiments like these you mean?

Turning Lobsters Into Fruit Flies (https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/articles/2002/2/22/genetic-alchemy-turning-lobsters-into-fruit-flies/)

That article has zero evidence whatsofuckingever. You seriously are one brain dead mother fucking retard.

And you're an antivaccinist too?

You would be too if you actually used your brain but unfortunately you seem to be incapable of doing so. Must suck to have shit for brains.

[Glenzig]

Experiments like these you mean?

Turning Lobsters Into Fruit Flies (https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/articles/2002/2/22/genetic-alchemy-turning-lobsters-into-fruit-flies/)

And you're an antivaccinist too?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNHk6dW5s4ElTEerUckxkqaMB6d2q2N M7Af6WEYvX6qEjNlnHMxQ

What happens when Hox genes mutate?

[Humerox]

That article has zero evidence whatsofuckingever. You seriously are one brain dead mother fucking retard.

Zero evidence? What planet do you live on?

I mean the study is just scientifically published and gee, I linked to NASA Astrobiology.
Tell ya what. Refute the study.

Oh wait, you can't.

[Itap]

Couldn't possibly be more the other way around. You're not only hopeless but a complete fucking waste of human life. Go drink more sodium fluoridated water and get some more vaccines thinking they're good for you dumb fuck.

Just when you think this thread can't possibly get any more entertaining

[Humerox]

What happens when Hox genes mutate?

Glad you asked!!

People turn into Luminary spin-offs?

EGAD (http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/variation/hoxgenes/)

[paulgiamatti]

"Harris: Just to be clear about the issue of autism: While we acknowledged that all vaccines have some associated risks, an increase in the incidence of autism associated with the MMR vaccine does not appear to be among them. All the research suggests that there is no link between autism and MMR, and yet the fear that there is, born of Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent study, is still burning brightly in affluent, liberal, well-educated communities. This shows how difficult it is to correct for misinformation once it has spread.

Unfortunately, when you confront people with evidence against their cherished beliefs, they often double down on those beliefs. In psychology, this is now referred to as “the backfire effect.” So Wakefield did a lot of harm with that study."

Interesting interview of Dr. Nina L. Shapiro by Sam Harris that sheds light on some important truths about vaccination, and why it is so important: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-vaccines

[Luminari]

Zero evidence? What planet do you live on?

I mean the study is just scientifically published and gee, I linked to NASA Astrobiology.
Tell ya what. Refute the study.

Oh wait, you can't.

The whole article is a bunch of "maybe's" you fucking retard. It doesn't even say anything. It just talks about how one gene might be responsible for how organisms evolved. Do you even know what constitutes as scientific evidence you dumb fuck?

[Luminari]

bunch of retarded bullshit

Anyone that listens to anything Sam Harris has to say needs their fucking head examined. Wakefield isn't the fraud. It's the billion dollar medical scam artist industry that are the frauds. Let's see, Wakefield had nothing to gain by his report whereas the people he outed have billions to gain. Do the math you dumb fucking waste of life.

[Humerox]

The whole article is a bunch of "maybe's" you fucking retard. It doesn't even say anything. It just talks about how one gene might be responsible for how organisms evolved. Do you even know what constitutes as scientific evidence you dumb fuck?


You obviously don't know how to read, bro. No wonder you're so easily misguided. Here's a clue. Scientific evidence is contained in a study. Not in an article ABOUT a study...which also does NOT say what you think it does.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRjqOSwro1Zf-UXt9TG1LPhQc_Wusx1IKclPJ0QoveVCHFJfW0

[paulgiamatti]

What's even more disparaging than the damage people like Wakefield can do by publishing false information is the fact that people like Luminari probably owe their lives to modern medical practices such as vaccination, yet spend so much effort - though not very much brainpower - in really sad, misguided attempts to lampoon them.

[paulgiamatti]

From Harris' Lying essay:

"In 1998, the physician Andrew Wakefield published a study in The Lancet linking the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism. This study has since been judged to be an “elaborate fraud,” and Wakefield’s medical license has been revoked.[11]

The consequences of Wakefield’s dishonesty would have been bad enough. But the legacy effect of other big lies has thus far made it impossible to remedy the damage he has caused. Given the fact that corporations and governments sometimes lie, whether to avoid legal liability or to avert public panic, it has become very difficult to spread the truth about the MMR vaccine. Vaccination rates have plummeted—especially in prosperous, well-educated communities—and children have become sick and even died as a result.

An unhappy truth of human psychology is probably also at work here, which makes it hard to abolish lies once they have escaped into the world: We seem to be predisposed to remember statements as true even after they have been disconfirmed. For instance, if a rumor spreads that a famous politician once fainted during a campaign speech, and the story is later revealed to be false, some significant percentage of people will recall it as a fact—even if they were first exposed to it in the very context of its debunking. In psychology, this is known as the “illusory truth effect.” Familiarity breeds credence."

[11] http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/06/study-linking-vaccines-to-autism-is-fraudulent/

[Glenzig]

Glad you asked!!

People turn into Luminary spin-offs?

EGAD (http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/variation/hoxgenes/)

Are hox gene mutations beneficial to the organism?

[Humerox]

Are hox gene mutations beneficial to the organism?

You tryna trip me up? You know more about it then I do, I'll bet.

:p

[Glenzig]

You tryna trip me up? You know more about it then I do, I'll bet.

:p

Just asking questions. But you're right, I do already know the answer.

[Glenzig]

From Harris' Lying essay:
An unhappy truth of human psychology is probably also at work here, which makes it hard to abolish lies once they have escaped into the world: We seem to be predisposed to remember statements as true even after they have been disconfirmed. For instance, if a rumor spreads that a famous politician once fainted during a campaign speech, and the story is later revealed to be false, some significant percentage of people will recall it as a fact—even if they were first exposed to it in the very context of its debunking. In psychology, this is known as the “illusory truth effect.” Familiarity breeds credence."[/I]

[11] http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/06/study-linking-vaccines-to-autism-is-fraudulent/

I agree. That can be applied to so many subjects.

[Luminari]

You obviously don't know how to read, bro. No wonder you're so easily misguided. Here's a clue. Scientific evidence is contained in a study. Not in an article ABOUT a study...which also does NOT say what you think it does.

No you fucking retard. Try actually reading the article. Tell me where the fuck it shows one organism becoming another idiot. I've read it twice now and see not a single piece of evidence showing one organism becoming another. How about pin pointing it for me dumb fuck? Apparently you think the title of the article is some how evidence rofl. You're so fucking dumb I'm actually embarrassed for you.

[Humerox]

No you fucking retard. Try actually reading the article. Tell me where the fuck it shows one organism becoming another idiot. I've read it twice now and see not a single piece of evidence showing one organism becoming another. How about pin pointing it for me dumb fuck? Apparently you think the title of the article is some how evidence rofl. You're so fucking dumb I'm actually embarrassed for you.

I read the article. I also read the study. You misunderstood one and haven't even attempted to read the other. Like I said before..an article ABOUT a study isn't the study.

You're dumber than a rock.

[Luminari]

I read the article. I also read the study. You misunderstood one and haven't even attempted to read the other. Like I said before..an article ABOUT a study isn't the study.

You're dumber than a rock.

Show me the fucking evidence then you dumb piece of shit. The article you linked has zero evidence whatsoever in regards to what you're claiming. No lobster was turned into a fruit fly you fucking retard.

[Glenzig]

I read the article. I also read the study. You misunderstood one and haven't even attempted to read the other. Like I said before..an article ABOUT a study isn't the study.

You're dumber than a rock.

What are the effects of hox gene mutations though?

[Luminari]

What's even more disparaging than the damage people like Wakefield can do by publishing false information is the fact that people like Luminari probably owe their lives to modern medical practices such as vaccination, yet spend so much effort - though not very much brainpower - in really sad, misguided attempts to lampoon them.

Haven't been to a doctor in 20 years. I also know how to cure cancer and virtually every disease that modern medicine has no clue how to cure. Why? Because they're not trying to you dumb fucking piece of shit. The whole medical industry is a money making scam. Keep taking your pharmaceuticals and injecting yourself with poison you dumb fucking retard.

[Humerox]

What are the effects of hox gene mutations though?

depends on the mutation and you know it.
you should be helping wit this scrub who doesn't have a clue, lol

[mgellan]

I guess you think Sir Isaac Newton is a moron too as well?

"“How came the bodies of animals to be contrived with so much art, and for what ends were their several parts?
Was the eye contrived without skill in Opticks, and the ear without knowledge of sounds?...and these things being rightly dispatch’d, does it not appear from phænomena that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent...?”
― Isaac Newton, Opticks

Fucking retard.

Brilliant people can be wrong about things. He was a product of his times, for all his brilliance he believed in alchemy. Are you saying alchemy exists because he discovered universal gravitation and co-discovered Calculus?

Regards,
Mg

[Glenzig]

depends on the mutation and you know it.
you should be helping wit this scrub who doesn't have a clue, lol

Has there been a beneficial hox gene mutation observed?

[Luminari]

Brilliant people can be wrong about things. He was a product of his times, for all his brilliance he believed in alchemy. Are you saying alchemy exists because he discovered universal gravitation and co-discovered Calculus?

Regards,
Mg

Do you even know what alchemy is you dumb piece of shit? Do you realize that chemistry and alchemy are basically the same fucking thing and that the man who invented chemistry was an alchemist? Like god damn, kill your fucking self, you're honestly too dumb to live.

[Humerox]

Has there been a beneficial hox gene mutation observed?

You tell me, lol. I'm not going into it because you already know the answers. But I'd say yes since the evolution of more complex body plans has been tied into repeated duplications of Hox genes and subsequent mutations etc.

Gotta forgive me for being a bit rusty...do go ahead.

[Pokesan]

Haven't been to a doctor in 20 years. I also know how to cure cancer and virtually every disease that modern medicine has no clue how to cure. Why? Because they're not trying to you dumb fucking piece of shit. The whole medical industry is a money making scam. Keep taking your pharmaceuticals and injecting yourself with poison you dumb fucking retard.

how cure cancer please

[Glenzig]

You tell me, lol. I'm not going into it because you already know the answers. But I'd say yes since the evolution of more complex body plans has been tied into repeated duplications of Hox genes and subsequent mutations etc.

Gotta forgive me for being a bit rusty...do go ahead.

Well you're the one that linked the article. Obviously it's something you believe to be true. Have you observed, or do you have evidence of observations of any mutations of hex genes that have resulted in an overall genetic gain for a species?

[Luminari]

how cure cancer please

Alkaline diet.

[paulgiamatti]

I mean, maybe the fact that some of us are actually trying to engage in conversation with this guy says more about us than it does about him.

The original thread topic was actually pretty interesting.

[Pokesan]

Alkaline diet.

I don't know what that is. Please explain in detail.

[Humerox]

Well you're the one that linked the article. Obviously it's something you believe to be true. Have you observed, or do you have evidence of observations of any mutations of hex genes that have resulted in an overall genetic gain for a species?

Ahhh, I see what you're doing. You're moving beyond the possibility of hex gene mutation - which yes, I know to be true - to any observed mutations that have been beneficial. The answer is no. But that's another can of worms, wouldn't you agree? Because it would be hard to argue that all mutations are detrimental. I don't see that as where you're going because it's a dead end.

The point I was making was that macroevolution has been observed in a laboratory setting. That those experiments produced efficient/beneficial change aren't even part of the same argument.

[mgellan]

Do you even know what alchemy is you dumb piece of shit? Do you realize that chemistry and alchemy are basically the same fucking thing and that the man who invented chemistry was an alchemist? Like god damn, kill your fucking self, you're honestly too dumb to live.

Obviously you're just trolling but the nice thing is, some people might be reading who actually genuinely believe this stuff, so let me explain. Alchemy is about the transmutation of metals (eg lead into gold) the creation of a panacea (e.g. elixir of life) and discovery of a universal solvent (paraphrase from wikipedia). None of these things are based on scientific principals but, like astrology giving rise to astronomy, are pre-scentific proto-sciences that eventually start applying the scientific method and become true sciences.

So yeah, Chemistry eventually evolved from Alchemy, but it was a speciation event :)

Regards,
Mg

[mgellan]

Alkaline diet.

Please provide links to relevant articles, or STFU.

Regards,
Mg

[Humerox]

So yeah, Chemistry eventually evolved from Alchemy, but it was a speciation event :)

Regards,
Mg

chortle-worthy :)

[Tradesonred]

https://i.imgflip.com/nkmyg.jpg

[paulgiamatti]

The point I was making was that macroevolution has been observed in a laboratory setting. That those experiments produced efficient/beneficial change aren't even part of the same argument.

Whenever you have a bunch of laymen arguing about the validity of evolution, it almost invariably involves the failure of one side to grasp the scale of time that evolution actually occurs in. It's just like Louis CK jokes; people that argue against evolution usually sound really stupid: "My daddy ain't a monkey!" "When has a species ever turned into another species?!"

But given that most of the time these people are creationists - people who don't know anything - it always comes as no surprise when this tired line repeatedly gets taken up.

[Luminari]

https://i.imgflip.com/nkmyg.jpg

Astrology actually is legitimate. I studied it pretty thoroughly and knew a lot about the fire signs(Ares, Leo, Sagittarius) being a Sagittarius myself. The personality profile of astrology is so accurate that as a professional poker player I'm literally able to spot anyone that is one of these signs sitting at a poker table with extreme accuracy. Sometimes I can do it within minutes and other times within just a few hours of interacting with people I've never met before. Since I know a lot more about Sagittarius than other signs, I've been able to call out within a day of the person's exact birthday on multiple occasions which has truly freaked some people out. If astrology weren't true, than I highly fucking doubt that this would be possible.

Regardless, alchemy is actually legitimate as well. Any idea how gun powder was invented? Through alchemy you dumb fuck. Lots of things are thanks to alchemy. The invention of steel? Alchemy. Glass? Alchemy. You're a fucking retard.

I don't know what that is. Please explain in detail.

It's rather simple. You only eat and drink things that are alkaline(have a PH above 7.0). Lots of foods are alkaline including but not limited to, broccoli, cucumbers, lettuce, almonds, lemons, beats, garlic(especially garlic which btw is the most powerful anticancer food known to exist), etc.

Please provide links to relevant articles, or STFU.

Regards,
Mg

Do some research on Dr Otto Heinrich Warburg who won not one but two Nobel prizes on the subject of cancer. He discovered that all cancers are due to acidity in the body and that cancer cells are inherently acidic in nature and produce energy through anaerobic respiration. He discovered that cancer cells cannot live in an oxygen rich/alkaline environment. Therefor alkalize the body, cure the cancer. Guaranteed.

[Tradesonred]

My rip wasnt so much on astrology as the logical fallacies you use

Someone has been right once, therefore he is right every time

[paulgiamatti]

It's rather simple. You only eat and drink things that are alkaline(have a PH above 7.0). Lots of foods are alkaline including but not limited to, broccoli, cucumbers, lettuce, almonds, lemons, beats, garlic(especially garlic which btw is the most powerful anticancer food known to exist), etc.

That's not a cure, you idiot. It's a preventative measure.

[Glenzig]

Ahhh, I see what you're doing. You're moving beyond the possibility of hex gene mutation - which yes, I know to be true - to any observed mutations that have been beneficial. The answer is no. But that's another can of worms, wouldn't you agree? Because it would be hard to argue that all mutations are detrimental. I don't see that as where you're going because it's a dead end.

The point I was making was that macroevolution has been observed in a laboratory setting. That those experiments produced efficient/beneficial change aren't even part of the same argument.

That's more of a deflection than an answer. Not all mutations are necessarily detrimental, no. However, specifically on the subject of hex mutations, which you pointed to for evolutionary evidence, there seems to be an absence of evidence for beneficial mutations and an abundance of evidence for harmful mutations. That's really what I was getting at.
I'm not sure how you're saying that macro evolution has been observed in a lab setting. Please elaborate.

[Skydash]

It's like an alchemy experiment right here, this thread is "evolving" into gold!!

Can't wait to see what genetic defects can culminate in this thread. Maybe an entire new species of stupid can be "created"!

I'd like to know more about the diversity of species we see now after the Permian-Triassic mass extinction wiped out over 90% of species?

[Glenzig]

It's like an alchemy experiment right here, this thread is "evolving" into gold!!

Can't wait to see what genetic defects can culminate in this thread. Maybe an entire new species of stupid can be "created"!

I'd like to know more about the diversity of species we see now after the Permian-Triassic mass extinction wiped out over 90% of species?

What is a species?

[Humerox]

That's more of a deflection than an answer. Not all mutations are necessarily detrimental, no. However, specifically on the subject of hex mutations, which you pointed to for evolutionary evidence, there seems to be an absence of evidence for beneficial mutations and an abundance of evidence for harmful mutations. That's really what I was getting at.
I'm not sure how you're saying that macro evolution has been observed in a lab setting. Please elaborate.


Evolution of Multicellularity (http://www.mpg.de/8738984/evolution-of-multicellularity)

This is macroevolution ABOVE the level of species. There are other examples in nature outside of the laboratory.

[Luminari]

Evolution of Multicellularity (http://www.mpg.de/8738984/evolution-of-multicellularity)

This is macroevolution ABOVE the level of species. There are other examples in nature outside of the laboratory.

That's not macroevolution you dumb piece of shit. It's still the same fucking bacteria you dumb delusional waste of life.

[Humerox]

That's not macroevolution you dumb piece of shit. It's still the same fucking bacteria you dumb delusional waste of life.

Stop being purposefully obtuse. Wasn't talking to you.

And before Glen gets to this...yes I know that example has nothing to do with Hox. That is just one engine for macroevolution. There's still the train to think of.

[Lojik]

If species can't evolve and 99.99% of species have gone extinct(or whatever the number is,) there must have been a shit ton of species coexisting at one point.

[Humerox]

There's only one argument that trumps all others.

Evolution Explained (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmS3Qh_SFwU)

[Tradesonred]

Nah my argument is the best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7_lSP8Vc3o

[Tradesonred]

We could discuss how modern pop music has a direct influence on ambient stupidity

[Humerox]

Nah my argument is the best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7_lSP8Vc3o

That's not bad but:

Human Genome Project (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx8mmWZxWuQ)

is more persuasive especially the argument given at 2:40

[Humerox]

We could discuss how modern pop music has a direct influence on ambient stupidity

lol :D

[Glenzig]

Evolution of Multicellularity (http://www.mpg.de/8738984/evolution-of-multicellularity)

This is macroevolution ABOVE the level of species. There are other examples in nature outside of the laboratory.

Its certainly impressive what scientists are learning about the building blocks of life. I'm not sure how that study proves anything about macro evolution though.

[Humerox]

Its certainly impressive what scientists are learning about the building blocks of life. I'm not sure how that study proves anything about macro evolution though.

Formerly independent cells establishing multicellularity that's passed down to subsequent generations?

[Glenzig]

Formerly independent cells establishing multicellularity that's passed down to subsequent generations?

Were they actually independent though? Pseudomonas cells were known to have the propensity for adhesion. Pretty sure that's why they chose to work with them specifically.

[Skydash]

What is a species?

Specere = to look; championed by Aristotle as a hierarchical system of classification for similar looking plants and animals based on Plato's idea of the immutable essence of things.

Leading eventually to the Binomial nomenclature defined as,
a system of nomenclature in which each species of plant or animal receives a name of two terms of which the first identifies the genus to which it belongs and the second the species itself.

Thus, if biologists are to use binomial nomenclature, and if they are to carry out the process of naming an organism in an objective manner, they need a clear definition of species. But attempts to say which populations should be treated as species have always been, and continue to be, problematic. In the long quest to establish valid classifications, a multiplicity of definitions for species have been proposed. This hunt for definitions is of such long standing, that it is known in biological circles as "the species problem."

And as Jean-Baptiste Lamarck realized, hybridization was rampant in both animals and plants,
The idea of bringing together under the name species a collection of like individuals, which perpetuate themselves unchanged by production and are as old as nature, involved the assumption that the individuals of one species could not unite in reproductive acts with individuals of a different species. Unfortunately, observation has proved and continues everyday to prove that this assumption is unwarranted; for the hybrids so common among plants, and the copulations so often observed between animals of very different species, disclose the fact that the boundaries between these allegedly constant species are not so impassable as had been imagined. It is true that often nothing results from these strange copulations, especially when the animals are very disparate; and when anything does happen the resulting individuals are usually infertile; but we also know that when there is less disparity these defects do not occur.

I wanted to here Luminari's theory of species Glenzig... and now you've ruined it.

[Humerox]

Were they actually independent though? Pseudomonas cells were known to have the propensity for adhesion. Pretty sure that's why they chose to work with them specifically.

Wasn't it the adhesive qualities that were lost during the mutations? I'll have to dig around to find the damned study now, lol

and This for Kicks (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27762-one-gene-may-drive-leap-from-single-cell-to-multicellular-life.html#.VZHSYEYTDm5)

[Glenzig]

Specere = to look; championed by Aristotle as a hierarchical system of classification for similar looking plants and animals based on Plato's idea of the immutable essence of things.

Leading eventually to the Binomial nomenclature defined as,


Thus, if biologists are to use binomial nomenclature, and if they are to carry out the process of naming an organism in an objective manner, they need a clear definition of species. But attempts to say which populations should be treated as species have always been, and continue to be, problematic. In the long quest to establish valid classifications, a multiplicity of definitions for species have been proposed. This hunt for definitions is of such long standing, that it is known in biological circles as "the species problem."

And as Jean-Baptiste Lamarck realized, hybridization was rampant in both animals and plants,


I wanted to here Luminari's theory of species Glenzig... and now you've ruined it.

So what is a species exactly then? Is there actually such a thing?

[Luminari]

Wasn't it the adhesive qualities that were lost during the mutations? I'll have to dig around to find the damned study now, lol

and This for Kicks (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27762-one-gene-may-drive-leap-from-single-cell-to-multicellular-life.html#.VZHSYEYTDm5)

Hey retard. Notice a trend with all of the shit you link?

"One gene may drive leap from single cell to multicellular life"

"may drive". "might" "maybe" "could possibly". That's not science you dumb fucking retard. That's called assumptions and speculations. Yet you think it constitutes as actual scientific evidence. How fucking retarded are you?

[Humerox]

Hey retard. Notice a trend with all of the shit you link?

"One gene may drive leap from single cell to multicellular life"

"may drive". "might" "maybe" "could possibly". That's not science you dumb fucking retard. That's called assumptions and speculations. Yet you think it constitutes as actual scientific evidence. How fucking retarded are you?

noticed we're back to reading titles and ignoring everything else. that's a step backwards...at least you were reading the articles before. I already know you're too lazy to read studies.

let's get to you, though. what's your take? how come we're not all related to chimps?

[Tradesonred]

Just had chicken after 2 months meat hiatus. That is why humanity is probably doomed to fail, we are weak. Even me who is conscious about industrial animal husbandry effects on the ecosystems cant find the will to go and stay full vegetarian.

That shit is harder to quit than hard drugs, i felt like a wolf


AHAHRARHAHARHGHGHAHHGHAG

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5053/5425326328_c7fd32176e_b.jpg

[Humerox]

you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat

just eat less meat. don't be extremist, it doesn't work, lol

[Glenzig]

you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat

just eat less meat. don't be extremist, it doesn't work, lol

How can you have any pudding if ya don't eat your meat!
You! Yes, you! Stand still laddy!

[Tradesonred]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUz9MyPMvcM

A post-apocalyptic song in this evolution of a thread

[Rararboker]

Don't eat meat? That explains so much...

Going to go finish making sausages and grinding up meat for burgers. Yey

[Tradesonred]

Don't eat meat? That explains so much...

Going to go finish making sausages and grinding up meat for burgers. Yey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs

[Tradesonred]

https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9t9h3zADG1rwqc2ho1_500.gif

[Tradesonred]

http://i.imgur.com/9yTzLIw.gif

[Orruar]

Astrology actually is legitimate.

lol, just lol

[Orruar]

I've been able to call out within a day of the person's exact birthday on multiple occasions which has truly freaked some people out.

If this is anything more than just luck, you should go ahead and claim the $1M James Randi prize. I'm sure this would qualify as a supernatural or psychic phenomenon. Chances are, you've guessed wrong 364 times for every 1 time you've guessed right, and you only remember the times you guessed right. Let us know if you end up winning the James Randi prize. Until then, you're just another pseudo-science believing idiot. You're in the right thread though.

[kain200]

Reading this thread has been very amusing. I haven't seen anyone point out yet that most of that Lumi guy's posts have been complete obscenity laced rants screaming at everyone who disagrees with him. You can always tell the ignorant and uneducated by the large amount of obscenity in their speech. People who have a small paltry vocabulary fill in the blanks with curse words.

Its hilarious to hear someone trying to sound intellectual and "science" based while screaming "YOU FUCKING DUMB FUCKS!"

[Itap]

I'm smarter than you, fuck you you fucking fuck

[Orruar]

Reading this thread has been very amusing. I haven't seen anyone point out yet that most of that Lumi guy's posts have been complete obscenity laced rants screaming at everyone who disagrees with him. You can always tell the ignorant and uneducated by the large amount of obscenity in their speech. People who have a small paltry vocabulary fill in the blanks with curse words.

Its hilarious to hear someone trying to sound intellectual and "science" based while screaming "YOU FUCKING DUMB FUCKS!"

He may be ignorant when it comes to vocabulary, but I bet he kicks your ass at astrology. How much do you want to bet he can guess your birthday?

[Glenzig]

He may be ignorant when it comes to vocabulary, but I bet he kicks your ass at astrology. How much do you want to bet he can guess your birthday?

May 38th 1923. Yahtzee!!!

[Whirled]

We all chipped in & got you pudding for your birthday
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrx6we_240-worth-of-pudding_fun

[Luminari]

If this is anything more than just luck, you should go ahead and claim the $1M James Randi prize. I'm sure this would qualify as a supernatural or psychic phenomenon. Chances are, you've guessed wrong 364 times for every 1 time you've guessed right, and you only remember the times you guessed right. Let us know if you end up winning the James Randi prize. Until then, you're just another pseudo-science believing idiot. You're in the right thread though.

Sorry but no. I've literally guessed correctly around 90% of the time and I've done it a couple of dozen times. Just look up your own astrology personality profile and you'll be surprised at how accurate it is. Sagittarius fits me to a T and that's why I'm able to guess with extreme accuracy if someone else is as well. Also I made it clear that I guessed with extreme accuracy in my post but you're obviously too dumb to read. For you to call anything psuedo-science is a god damn joke since you believe in evolution which has zero evidence whatsoever and fits the exact description of pseudoscience but you're just way too dumb to think for yourself and only accept it because lots of people who call themselves scientists accept it. You're a complete embarrassment.

[Luminari]

Reading this thread has been very amusing. I haven't seen anyone point out yet that most of that Lumi guy's posts have been complete obscenity laced rants screaming at everyone who disagrees with him. You can always tell the ignorant and uneducated by the large amount of obscenity in their speech. People who have a small paltry vocabulary fill in the blanks with curse words.

Its hilarious to hear someone trying to sound intellectual and "science" based while screaming "YOU FUCKING DUMB FUCKS!"

I only rage at people because of how unfuckingbelievably retarded they are. Like my mind is blown at the limit to which people can be morons. I'm so much smarter than just about everyone here that it's a complete fucking joke.

[Glenzig]

I only rage at people because of how unfuckingbelievably retarded they are. Like my mind is blown at the limit to which people can be morons. I'm so much smarter than just about everyone here that it's a complete fucking joke.

I guess you're so smart that you forgot about free will. People have the right to believe what they want. Why belittle them about it? What good does that actually do? There are plenty of dumb ideas on both sides of the creation/evolution debate. At the end of the day it's up to the individual to decide what they believe.

Like you. Why do you believe astrology to be scientifically lagitimate? I'm sure you feel there is a good reason for you personally.

[Luminari]

I guess you're so smart that you forgot about free will. People have the right to believe what they want. Why belittle them about it? What good does that actually do? There are plenty of dumb ideas on both sides of the creation/evolution debate. At the end of the day it's up to the individual to decide what they believe.

Like you. Why do you believe astrology to be scientifically lagitimate? I'm sure you feel there is a good reason for you personally.

Why belittle them? Probably because they force their retardation down everyone's throats and teach their bullshit to kids in schools. These people are literally everything that is wrong with the world today. They spread their stupidity like a cancer. It's not just a matter of people believing what they want. It's a matter of believing lies or the truth and unfortunately the majority of people believe lies.

They can't even figure out that our own government was responsible for 9/11 and we end up invading an innocent country and killing innocent people because people are too fucking retarded to figure out the truth. People are literally dying because of the blatant ignorance of dumb worthless pieces of shit like the people on these boards.

[Champion_Standing]

Everything is just perfect dudes

[Glenzig]

Why belittle them? Probably because they force their retardation down everyone's throats and teach their bullshit to kids in schools. These people are literally everything that is wrong with the world today. They spread their stupidity like a cancer. It's not just a matter of people believing what they want. It's a matter of believing lies or the truth and unfortunately the majority of people believe lies.

They can't even figure out that our own government was responsible for 9/11 and we end up invading an innocent country and killing innocent people because people are too fucking retarded to figure out the truth. People are literally dying because of the blatant ignorance of dumb worthless pieces of shit like the people on these boards.

I see it's a subject that you are very passionate about. Nothing wrong with that. Spouting obscenities and insults is no way to prove a point though. That is only going to reenforce their negative opinion of you. You can be bold and respectful at the same time.

As far as the 9/11 thing goes, I'm not sure how that really fits, but there are more than enough people on both sides of the issue that have no problem putting their blind faith in their respective governments. That's really a wholly different topic though.

[paulgiamatti]

Man, I thought G13 and Eliseus marked pinnacle of stupidity for the P99 forums, but then this guy comes along.

Like, I need to play some Lumosity to make sure my neurons are still firing properly after reading that exchange. I can almost feel my brain cells gasping for breath. I think the rotation of the earth actually just slowed down a bit.

[Humerox]

I only rage at people because of how unfuckingbelievably retarded they are. Like my mind is blown at the limit to which people can be morons. I'm so much smarter than just about everyone here that it's a complete fucking joke.

Good. Start by enlightening me as to why we're not related to chimps. You're good at trolling other people's positions yet have no opinions of your own.

[Tradesonred]

Was your mother a chimpanzee? GOSH!

http://cdn2.hark.com/images/000/530/852/530852/original.jpg

[Luminari]

Good. Start by enlightening me as to why we're not related to chimps. You're good at trolling other people's positions yet have no opinions of your own.

Because humans can only come from humans and chimps can only come from chimps. The fact that you need to be enlightened about things that are blatantly obvious speaks volumes about how dumb you actually are.

[Humerox]

Because humans can only come from humans and chimps can only come from chimps. The fact that you need to be enlightened about things that are blatantly obvious speaks volumes about how dumb you actually are.

and where did humans and chimps come from? and everything else?

[Orruar]

Sorry but no. I've literally guessed correctly around 90% of the time and I've done it a couple of dozen times. Just look up your own astrology personality profile and you'll be surprised at how accurate it is. Sagittarius fits me to a T and that's why I'm able to guess with extreme accuracy if someone else is as well. Also I made it clear that I guessed with extreme accuracy in my post but you're obviously too dumb to read. For you to call anything psuedo-science is a god damn joke since you believe in evolution which has zero evidence whatsoever and fits the exact description of pseudoscience but you're just way too dumb to think for yourself and only accept it because lots of people who call themselves scientists accept it. You're a complete embarrassment.

Ok, what's my birthday and/or astrological sign? I have hundreds of posts on these forums, so there is plenty of data for you to use.

[Orruar]

In before: "That's not how it works"

[jarshale]

and where did humans and chimps come from? and everything else?

God did it, obviously.

[Humerox]

God did it, obviously.

Luminari hasn't said that.

[Jimjam]

Because humans can only come from humans and chimps can only come from chimps. The fact that you need to be enlightened about things that are blatantly obvious speaks volumes about how dumb you actually are.

Evolutionists actually say humans and chimps had a common ancestor, not that humans descended from chimps. By their logic your great (times 200,000) grandpa had great (times 200,000) grand kids, some that are chimps and some that are human.

As you point out, one animal doesn't magically turn into another, so speciation under the evolution model must be a slow process that takes many (hundreds? thousands? more?) of generations.

[Glenzig]

and where did humans and chimps come from? and everything else?

What are your thoughts on this? Where did everything come from?

[Tradesonred]

What are your thoughts on this? Where did everything come from?

Personally i dont know but im pretty sure the answer is not a white bearded male in the clouds wagging his finger

[Glenzig]

Personally i dont know but im pretty sure the answer is not a white bearded male in the clouds wagging his finger

No. You're right about that.

[Swish]

Jesus is black, I saw it in a music vid

[Glenzig]

Jesus is black, I saw it in a music vid

You know, Jesus wasn't even a christian.

[Tradesonred]

Jesus would definitely break luminari's table

[Tradesonred]

http://politistick.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Jesus-Money-Changers-Temple.jpg

[Eslade]

got to the part about the scientist being from University of Mexico and stopped reading right there.

[Raev]

Orruar is obviously a Pisces

[Luminari]

Ok, what's my birthday and/or astrological sign? I have hundreds of posts on these forums, so there is plenty of data for you to use.

You're seriously a fucking retard. First of all I said I can only tell the fire signs since those are the only ones I studied. Second of all, it's wayyyy different when you actually are face to face with people.

[Luminari]

Evolutionists actually say humans and chimps had a common ancestor, not that humans descended from chimps. By their logic your great (times 200,000) grandpa had great (times 200,000) grand kids, some that are chimps and some that are human.

As you point out, one animal doesn't magically turn into another, so speciation under the evolution model must be a slow process that takes many (hundreds? thousands? more?) of generations.

Again, not possible. Humans only come from humans. Chimps only come from chimps. There is no such thing as a common ancestor because that would then mean that something that was neither chimp nor human some how made both.

Personally i dont know but im pretty sure the answer is not a white bearded male in the clouds wagging his finger

Indeed that's not the answer. The answer is everything came from God through the word of Jesus Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

[Humerox]

Indeed that's not the answer. The answer is everything came from God through the word of Jesus Christ.

Show me the fucking evidence then you dumb piece of shit.

There's only one true deity.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfZtOkj5-51yc3sWYYTiA_8GD8lfumjSCyHPO6P3gT0LpGJJwM5A

[Luminari]

There's only one true deity.

Welcome to the very long list of people that will find out the hard way.

[Humerox]

Welcome to the very long list of people that will find out the hard way.

I most humbly thank Thee, oh Noodly Appendaged One, for Touching me with the mental capacity to adapt the mythologies of This Universe to aid and comfort me here, until that day I am able to join together with my Pastafarian Brothers and Sisters at the foot of the Beer Volcano, and enumerate my specifications at the Stripper Factory, so that happiness and contentedness and good cheer be present for all, forever and forever,

RAmen.

Sucks for you though, since you believe in a cruel, vindictive, hateful piece of crap of a diety. Each to his own though, especially based on your attitude through the thread. May Pasta be merciful on your soul.

[Pokesan]

21 pages for the christ bomb

well done, troll. very well done.

[Luminari]

Sucks for you though, since you believe in a cruel, vindictive, hateful piece of crap of a diety. Each to his own though, especially based on your attitude through the thread. May Pasta be merciful on your soul.

God is love actually, not hate. You're just too dumb to realize it. The only ones he will punish are the worthless pieces of shit like yourself that ruin this world.

[Patriam1066]

21 pages for the christ bomb

well done, troll. very well done.

That dude has been trolling the entire time. It's sad that people didn't understand that after he said he can tell people their birthdays after playing poker with them. He's an anti-vaxxer 9/11 Truther Christian that believes in astrology? Pick two. The dummies responding in this thread need help.

It was very entertaining to read though! Kudos luminari

[Humerox]

God is love actually, not hate. You're just too dumb to realize it. The only ones he will punish are the worthless pieces of shit like yourself that ruin this world.

Your god doesn't exist, so I really couldn't care less.

[Tradesonred]

He's an anti-vaxxer 9/11 Truther Christian that believes in astrology? Pick two.

God works in mysterious ways

[Humerox]

That dude has been trolling the entire time. It's sad that people didn't understand that after he said he can tell people their birthdays after playing poker with them. He's an anti-vaxxer 9/11 Truther Christian that believes in astrology? Pick two. The dummies responding in this thread need help.

It was very entertaining to read though! Kudos luminari

we dummies made it so. he actually dropped the bomb on page 4.

[jarshale]

Called that shit. I must be psychic.

[Luminari]

That dude has been trolling the entire time. It's sad that people didn't understand that after he said he can tell people their birthdays after playing poker with them. He's an anti-vaxxer 9/11 Truther Christian that believes in astrology? Pick two. The dummies responding in this thread need help.

It was very entertaining to read though! Kudos luminari

I'm not a troll, just a lot smarter than everyone else. Unless by troll you mean someone who isn't a completely fucking brain washed worthless piece of shit waste of life. Then ya I'm the biggest troll there is.

Your god doesn't exist, so I really couldn't care less.

He's your God too whether you believe it or not so it's couldn't possibly be more irrelevant whether you think he exists or not just like you thinking the sun doesn't exist doesn't actually alter the fact that it does. You will find out the hard way like so many others that he does exist.

[Luminari]

It's kind of hilarious how many people here have seen the movie The Matrix and it's probably one of your favorite movies and yet have no fucking clue what it's actually about. Here's a hint. It's about all of you and how you're all mentally asleep and are a slave to the world and are blinded to the truth. You're incapable of thinking for yourselves and incapable of knowing the truth about the reality in which you live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AjvGIBgpF8

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

That's all of you. You're so hopelessly brainwashed and so hopelessly dependent that you're fighting to protect it. It's known as Stockholm Syndrome and you all have it. Immediately calling anyone a troll who is awake to reality.

[Pokesan]

hi lron

[Humerox]

Why belittle them? Probably because Christians force their retardation down everyone's throats and teach their bullshit to kids in schools. These people are literally everything that is wrong with the world today. They spread their stupidity like a cancer. It's not just a matter of people believing what they want. It's a matter of believing lies or the truth and unfortunately the majority of people believe lies.

Evolution exists whether you believe it or not so it couldn't possibly be more irrelevant whether you think it exists or not just like you thinking the sun doesn't exist doesn't actually alter the fact that it does. You will find out the hard way like so many others that it does exist.

See that? Fixed. Too easy.

[Luminari]

See that? Fixed. Too easy.

Actually God can be proven, evolution cannot be. Show me one creature turning into another please. If we have a common ancestor with chimps, name that common ancestor. In fact, name of common ancestor of anything that's alive today and prove it please.

[Jimjam]

Again, not possible. Humans only come from humans. Chimps only come from chimps. There is no such thing as a common ancestor because that would then mean that something that was neither chimp nor human some how made both.

You're refuting it as if It's not like a fish gave birth to two children, one a chimp and the other a human. Which is probably a sensible thing to refute

I rather think the argument is the 'common ancestor' had offspring and as time passed each generation of offspring were very slightly more chimplike as on one side of the tree, and more and more humanlike on the other side.

A 0.0005% change each generation, rather than a 100% change in a single step?

[Glenzig]

You're refuting it as if It's not like a fish gave birth to two children, one a chimp and the other a human. Which is probably a sensible thing to refute

I rather think the argument is the 'common ancestor' had offspring and as time passed each generation of offspring were very slightly more chimplike as on one side of the tree, and more and more humanlike on the other side.

A 0.0005% change each generation, rather than a 100% change in a single step?

How much time would it take for an astrolopithician type hominid to evolve into a human in this scenario ?

[Luminari]

You're refuting it as if It's not like a fish gave birth to two children, one a chimp and the other a human. Which is probably a sensible thing to refute

I rather think the argument is the 'common ancestor' had offspring and as time passed each generation of offspring were very slightly more chimplike as on one side of the tree, and more and more humanlike on the other side.

A 0.0005% change each generation, rather than a 100% change in a single step?

You don't seem to get it. Humans ONLY come from humans. Chimps ONLY come from chimps. Humans go extinct, that's it, no more humans. Why? Because only humans can make more humans. Nothing can evolve into one. Nothing can "slowly" become a human. Every single living thing can only make more of what it already is. How fucking hard is this to understand? Especially considering you're reminded of this fact every single day of your life.

See birds outside? They came from other birds and they're only going to make more birds. See grass in your yard? It came from other grass and it will produce more grass just like it. Live in Florida and have an orange tree in your yard? It came from another orange tree just like it and guess what, it's going to produce more orange trees in the future. See rabbits hopping around your yard? They came from other rabbits and they'll produce more rabbits just like themselves. Every single living thing you see every year looks exactly the fucking same as the ones from the year before it. Never in my life have I EVER seen a living thing that appears to be evolving into something else.

You sincerely have to have shit for fucking brains to believe in evolution.

[Jimjam]

You don't seem to get it. Humans ONLY come from humans. Chimps ONLY come from chimps. Humans go extinct, that's it, no more humans. Why? Because only humans can make more humans. Nothing can evolve into one. Nothing can "slowly" become a human. Every single living thing can only make more of what it already is. How fucking hard is this to understand? Especially considering you're reminded of this fact every single day of your life.

See birds outside? They came from other birds and they're only going to make more birds. See grass in your yard? It came from other grass and it will produce more grass just like it. Live in Florida and have an orange tree in your yard? It came from another orange tree just like it and guess what, it's going to produce more orange trees in the future. See rabbits hopping around your yard? They came from other rabbits and they'll produce more rabbits just like themselves.Totally agree.

Every single living thing you see every year looks exactly the fucking same as the ones from the year before it.Obviously not true, I look fairly similar to my father but not exactly the same. Even more true for hybrids of two closely related species.

Never in my life have I EVER seen a living thing that appears to be evolving into something else.Evolution is theorised to happen over such a long period of time that I don't think I'd recognise it even if I were to 'see' it (should it be true).

You sincerely have to have shit for fucking brains to believe in evolution.Humans are definitely badly 'designed' in that they can often believe apparently crazy things. With that (and other things) in mind I think it is important to try love and respect each other.

It's always fun to have a discussion with people holding strong opinions, and I hope you're enjoying the discussion as much as me and not feeling frustrated?

[Itap]

Please show proof of god

[Luminari]

Evolution is theorised to happen over such a long period of time that I don't think I'd recognise it even if I were to 'see' it (should it be true).

We have a bunch of creatures that are 100-500 million years old that are still alive today that are virtually identical today as they were then. If that's not a long enough time than nothing is and the theory is clearly bullshit.

It's always fun to have a discussion with people holding strong opinions, and I hope you're enjoying the discussion as much as me and not feeling frustrated?

If you believe in evolution then yes I'm frustrated that I have to share this planet with someone incapable of using their brain.

[Luminari]

Please show proof of god

DNA is proof of God. It contains a language and information both of which can only come from an intelligent being. Whoever created DNA also created all life and is therefor God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PKjF7OumYo

If you think something like this can just happen for no apparent reason, you're simply brain dead. DNA is the smoking gun of God's existence.

[Whirled]

https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4986/984/1600/nz20040728.jpg
c u @ church

[Jimjam]

We have a bunch of creatures that are 100-500 million years old that are still alive today that are virtually identical today as they were then. If that's not a long enough time than nothing is and the theory is clearly bullshit.
Its a good point and the question why creatures might stay the same for so long is a good one. Another good opportunity for a thought experiment if you ask me.

We know genes can mutate, we know sexual reproduction happens and we know there are seletional pressures on organisms. Perhaps the creature lost some of the prerequisites/catalysts for the process? I.e. they tend not to sexually reproduce, have largely immutable DNA, have had stable selectional pressures, have large generational gaps or have a narrow genepool (e.g. if a species practically went extinct but recovered).


If you believe in evolution then yes I'm frustrated that I have to share this planet with someone incapable of using their brain.
Whatever the truth of the world, discussing it on the internet is not going to change that truth. If your finding the topic frustrating perhaps I can suggest to take a step back and find something else more relaxing to participate in for a while?

[Itap]

If you believe in evolution then yes I'm frustrated that I have to share this planet with someone incapable of using their brain.

You are either the best troll we have had here in a long time, or you are seriously ill. What kind of person says something like that?

[Glenzig]

You are either the best troll we have had here in a long time, or you are seriously ill. What kind of person says something like that?

Richard Dawkins?

[paulgiamatti]

Ugh, this guy is the absolute worst.

I usually try to refrain from telling people they shouldn't reproduce because I think that's generally a stupid thing to say - someone's offspring could end up being orders of magnitude more intelligent and altruistic than their parents - but, in this case, I think I'd make an exception.

Like, if by some freak anomaly of nature this guy jizzed a thousand Einsteins into some poor, unfortunate woman, I'd still fear for that kid's upbringing. Please, for the love of anything and everything, do not have kids.

[Luminari]

Ugh, this guy is the absolute worst.

I usually try to refrain from telling people they shouldn't reproduce because I think that's generally a stupid thing to say - someone's offspring could end up being orders of magnitude more intelligent and altruistic than their parents - but, in this case, I think I'd make an exception.

Like, if by some freak anomaly of nature this guy jizzed a thousand Einsteins into some poor, unfortunate woman, I'd still fear for that kid's upbringing. Please, for the love of anything and everything, do not have kids.

No point in having kids since the world is about to end. Regardless, I'm pretty much the only one here that should be having kids since you're all so fucking delusional it's a joke. God gave you a brain but it's like you refuse to actually use it. I guess I shouldn't complain too much though since I make my 6 figure income by beating retards like yourself at poker all day.

[Glenzig]

This thread is so awesome.

[paulgiamatti]

That's good enough for me. Carry on, then.

[citizen1080]

young poker player

[Glenzig]

young poker player

Young poker player/astrologer.

[Luminari]

That's good enough for me. Carry on, then.

It's cool, you won't be having kids either.

[Humerox]

DNA is proof of God.

DNA is proof of evolution and shared ancestry.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

[Luminari]

DNA is proof of evolution and shared ancestry.

No lol. DNA contradicts evolution actually. The genetic code of each individual creature is unique and specific to that creature. That's why we only ever see each creature producing more of what it is. Sorry bud but the evidence is on my side. At one point DNA didn't exist btw so how does something evolve when there is no living thing to evolve from?

[Glenzig]

DNA is proof of evolution and shared ancestry.

What is the reasoning behind this statement? Is it just the mere existence of DNA that proves evolution? Is it the fact that all living organisms share at least a portion of genetic coding? Or is it something else?

[myriverse]

No lol. DNA contradicts evolution actually. The genetic code of each individual creature is unique and specific to that creature. That's why we only ever see each creature producing more of what it is. Sorry bud but the evidence is on my side. At one point DNA didn't exist btw so how does something evolve when there is no living thing to evolve from?
Well, you got that last part partially right, at least.

You're learning. You're learning.

[Tradesonred]

The grey aliens are humans visiting us from the future, to study themselves before they got to their point in evolution, which is probably self-guided by now. Theres your proof.

http://c3.thejournal.ie/media/2015/06/mind-blown-6.gif

[Luminari]

The grey aliens are humans visiting us from the future, to study themselves before they got to their point in evolution, which is probably self-guided by now. Theres your proof.

Not possible since there is no such thing as time travel.

[Humerox]

while this has been a fun exercise it's really a bit mundane for me at this point.

Origin of Life (http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/03/researchers-may-have-solved-origin-life-conundrum)

science isn't there yet. but it's a lot better than mumbo-jumbo about some mystical being...because if everyone accepted that as fact there'd be no new development simply because no one would question the "why".

argue on, bros

[paulgiamatti]

Very true, but as cosmologist Lawrence Krauss often points out, "why" generally implies a purpose where there probably isn't one. When intellectually honest people ask "why" something is, or "why" something isn't, Krauss asserts that what they're really asking is "how". I tend to agree with him.

[Glenzig]

Very true, but as cosmologist Lawrence Krauss often points out, "why" generally implies a purpose where there probably isn't one. When intellectually honest people ask "why" something is, or "why" something isn't, Krauss asserts that what they're really asking is "how". I tend to agree with him.

No. When you ask why the something is beautiful that's not even close to a how question. You can't boil life down to questions of how. You have to include legitimate questions of why certain things are the way they are.
The assertion Krauss makes actually brings the scientific process to a halt. If you are left merely explaining how things work without allowing the question of why they work, then that takes an essential element of discovery out of the equation and makes science more of a perfunctory exercise than anything. Every major discovery man has made ever made through science has started with the question of why something happens.

[Orruar]

You're seriously a fucking retard. First of all I said I can only tell the fire signs since those are the only ones I studied. Second of all, it's wayyyy different when you actually are face to face with people.

In before: "That's not how it works"

Beat you to it.

[Orruar]

btw, why don't you claim the million dollar prize for psychic/supernatural phenomena? Surely being able to guess birthdays with 90% accuracy would be considered worthy. Or are the kind of superhero who would never use your powers for personal financial gain?