Rain spells

[dafier]

Mage rain spells do not work as intended....at all.

Should be a cast, 3 ticks in an area.

I see 1 or 2 ticks immediately and 90% of the time the mob resists it.

Anyone know why this is occurring? I mean, if they are that bad, why not just remove them from the game?

[Halius]

I'm not sure about resists. But as far as I know for rain spells the reason you often won't see three ticks is because it is only set to hit a certain amount of mobs. So if you have 1 mob, it will hit that single mob 3 times. If you have 2 mobs, then you should get 2 hits on each. If you have 3 or more mobs then you only get 1 hit on each one. I think your pet also counts against it, so even if you have 1 mob and your pet fighting it, then your pet will take a wave and the mob will take 2. At least that is my limited understanding of it. I just avoid using them all together so I don't have much experience in the subject.

[Grimjaw]

I also noticed the resists issue. the mob will most certainly resist atleast 1 wave of any rain. like it will never land successfully 3 times.. its odd

[dafier]

There was a explanation on another EQEMU, I am not going to mention it, but they explained that original code (hidden from users) showed that these rain spells have a positive resist factor. Meaning instead of a negative resist in wihch an NPC needs to have 50 or 100 positive resist to level out resistance to zero pertaining to the spell, (instead) they need a negative resist to level out to zero.

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Hypothetical Example:

Orc has -25 MR

You cast a MR based rain spell on it. Because the resist check on the spell, the Orc now has +25 MR because the opposite resist affect the Rain spell has.

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Rains were broken in live years ago and they are broken in P99. They obviously have a positive resist on them instead of zero or a negative resist.

[dafier]

I'm not sure about resists. But as far as I know for rain spells the reason you often won't see three ticks is because it is only set to hit a certain amount of mobs. So if you have 1 mob, it will hit that single mob 3 times. If you have 2 mobs, then you should get 2 hits on each. If you have 3 or more mobs then you only get 1 hit on each one. I think your pet also counts against it, so even if you have 1 mob and your pet fighting it, then your pet will take a wave and the mob will take 2. At least that is my limited understanding of it. I just avoid using them all together so I don't have much experience in the subject.

OH! You are right! I forgot about the ticks and how the rain functions. Thanks for the info.

[dafier]

Without using an active reader (something that reads your RAM and finds stuff that will explain this), which is highly illegal .....

It's difficult to find out the cause of the extremely high resist rate.

[koros]

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April 12, 2005
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- NPC’s innate 20% resistance against rain spells has been removed.*

[dafier]

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April 12, 2005
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- NPC’s innate 20% resistance against rain spells has been removed.*

Good to know but it's still broke. There is NO way it's working as it should because if it were all other damage spells would have the same type of resistance.

[williestargell]

Rain spells have two problems on p99:

(1) Yes resists to rains were adjusted later, but they are still resisted more on p99 than they were in the kunark era on live. Resists have never been properly tuned in kunark (alot of people's opinion)

(2) Rains are hitting summoned pets. The pets don't actually take damage but they should not be counted as enemies that the spell can hit and use up a wave. example, you nuke one mob, and a mage friend's pet is on it - the spell is counting it as two mobs and you are only getting two waves instead of the three you should get on a single mob.

[dafier]

Late response:

Thanks for the feedback. It truly makes rains completely not worth while.

[Iumuno]

We didn't use rains on live because of resist issues, even when no summoned pets were there to eat waves. So sadly, this seems classic to me.

[dafier]

We didn't use rains on live because of resist issues, even when no summoned pets were there to eat waves. So sadly, this seems classic to me.

From what I remember about classic, I didn't use them either.

I did use them in Luclin and PoP though. I'd pull several mobs have my pet agro (this is all high level stuff I am talking) all of them and rain them down. It had a LOW agro to the spell and the resists were minimal.

[Haynar]

Classic rains always had pets eat waves. Sucked. Made them less useful.

Rains also couldn't get kill shots. Can't remember when I saw the patch note about that changing.

So keep those things in mind whe using rains. Pets suck. And they won't finish off a mob.

H

[dafier]

Classic rains always had pets eat waves. Sucked. Made them less useful.

Rains also couldn't get kill shots. Can't remember when I saw the patch note about that changing.

So keep those things in mind whe using rains. Pets suck. And they won't finish off a mob.

H

Your addition to this thread is invaluable. Thanks Haynar. There are certain things in Classic EQ that were plain and simple, broken. I know it's not classic, but having them fixed would be awesome.

Does it change the game play if you made a change that would allow it not to hit the pet and only the NPCs and fix the code where it would allow it to kill the target?

Honestly I don't know if I am requesting or what....I think I am just voicing out. I could careless. What I tell everyone is not to ever use those spells. They are absolutely worthless (waste of mana).

Edit:

Like I said in a previous post. Rains were worth while in later expansions. It actually made sense to use them. It's just too bad they weren't that way from the get go.

[Pyrion]

in p1999 (and in classic times) rains are just a newbie trap. Sound good on paper, but totally worthless. I don't really understand why we need to have the bugs from earlier times as well. I know, i know... it's classic.

[TanDemain]

Actually, if the right circumstance present them self, rains are actually preferred. The right circumstances are; no pets, not a killing shot, a mob with low resist (fire on frost, frost on fire mobs etc).

As a wizard, I save more mana from my rain spells used on mobs then a DD spell (assuming the above circumstances are in order).


Sunstrike: 1615 @ 450mana 7sec cast

Tears of Solusek: 645 x 3 = 1935 @ 408mana 5sec cast
Tears of Prexus: 690 x 3 = 2070 @ 437mana 5sec cast

TLDR: Git gud

[dafier]

Thanks for the feedback Tan, but I've yet to see a rain land on 50+ mobs and do full damage.

Maybe I'll try it next time I am in HoT fighting the red wurms there.

[Pipip]

I use them in pvp

[Telin]

My logs from PoP era Al'kabor server.

[Thu Feb 28 18:25:50 2013] Your target resisted the Winter's Storm spell.
[Thu Feb 28 18:25:50 2013] Your target resisted the Winter's Storm spell.
[Thu Feb 28 18:25:50 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:25:50 2013] tainted hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:24 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:24 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:24 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:24 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:24 2013] Your target resisted the Winter's Storm spell.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:24 2013] tainted hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:24 2013] Tainted hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] Your target resisted the Winter's Storm spell.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] tainted hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] Tainted hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] You have slain tainted hill giant!
[Thu Feb 28 18:26:40 2013] Tainted hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] You have slain a hill giant!
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] You have slain a hill giant!
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:00 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:17 2013] a hill giant was hit by non-melee for 850 points of damage.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:17 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:17 2013] You have slain a hill giant!
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:17 2013] A hill giant is caught in a raging blizzard.
[Thu Feb 28 18:27:21 2013] corrupted hill giant scowls at you, ready to attack -- You could probably win this fight.

[dafier]

Nice logs. I do recall rains being worth while later in the game (PoP era and beyond).

Actually, since the change in this last patch that ignore your pet (mage) as a target I've been using Manastorm and it's been working out nicely.