Cazel - HP regen is wrong

[ergo]

http://mqemulator.net/npc.php?id=37157

This is just silly 360hp regen on p99 it should be 7.

I cleared this guy solo in Kunark often for lowbies at 60 as a shaman. He summoned, that was it.

Fix this.

[Itap]

What are you smoking? Read any of the posts made here (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5170&p=3#comments) and you will quickly realize how wrong your recollection of Cazel is.

WAD, move along

[ergo]

What are you smoking? Read any of the posts made here (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5170&p=3#comments) and you will quickly realize how wrong your recollection of Cazel is.

WAD, move along

Please show me where it says anything about his regen. I soloed him often in live. If you have something to suggest otherwise, please share it. A post of people bitching about dying to him as a lv 20 says nothing about a lv 60 shaman soloing him.

[Haynar]

Other peoples experience with him differs. We estimated at 200 regen back in the day. You needed some dps. I do not know what he is set at. But for sure it should not be 7.

H

[Daldaen]

Never use that site as a source for reliable information. It's like citing the an Onion News Story as a source in a research paper. It's just not useful for classic purposes.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5170

2007

His regen is insane, but my wife is happy to have the spoon for her chanter alt.


2006

I seriously underestimated this guy. He's LB (the new LB) to a 61 Druid. He didn't resist anything I threw at him, but with my meager DoT's, he was regening anything I could take off of him.

2005

The rogue wields his epic and a Soulpiercer. His dps (without backstabs) + my pet's was about equal to Cazel's regen. A backstab or nuke would then make a noticeable dent in his hps.

Ran across him with my wife (58 shammy) and my Wizzy alt (53)
His regen is so high that Bane of Nife and shammy Epic dot barely covered that.
Between her pet and my nukes we took him down but it took a while and he did run but not till 10% health. A 1000ish HP DMG nuke does 1-2% damage to him I am no math wiz but that = TOO many hp LOL
Passed spoon off to Wifes Chanter alt.

Jumping to 2001 to show it wasn't just added later:

We took him down today with 7 people 3 55+ 4 45-50, All i gotta say God bless necros - when his regen is taken away with a cute little spell necros got and then fear him and down he went in about 45sec-1min. And he regens 500 hp per tick so i would like see a druid kite him - and summons he sure as **** does to :).
Btw was a cute little lvl 50 cleric that said he soloed him - but he had him mixed up with hatar hehe - dont think i need to mention he ripped fast trying to solo him.

Just CTRL F - "Regen" and you'll see 50+ comments across 7 years about his regen.

[ergo]

Never use that site as a source for reliable information. It's like citing the an Onion News Story as a source in a research paper. It's just not useful for classic purposes.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5170

2007



2006



2005





Jumping to 2001 to show it wasn't just added later:



Just CTRL F - "Regen" and you'll see 50+ comments across 7 years about his regen.

Then maybe the disease line of dots should stop regen, because I know I soloed him - often.

[ergo]

Also OLDER posts:

Jun 23 2002 at 3:33 AMRating: Default
tommycrain
15 posts
Cazel is a big kitty cat, took 7 of us ranging from lvl 43 up to get rid of him in about 4 minutes, don't know how many htpts he has but it is above average. Don't know what else to tell you other than, it can be accomplished rather easily. You guys have fun with him, you will be the saviors of Oasis for a day.

moar? MOAR:

Sep 16 2002 at 1:48 PMRating: Good
Yen
12 posts
Killed him with 2 people. 58 Epic Mage (Me) and a 55 enchanter.

I summoned up my pet, gave him a muzzle and BO4. Enchanter casted rune 5 on pet. I was at 80m and enchanter at 75M before we engaged. Didn't want to wait until FM since at the time no one else was engaged.

I sent in pet, debuffed with Malosini. Enchanter tashed and slowed him (slowing him makes his dmg output wussy).

Durning the fight the enchanter rune 5 my pet and nuked a few times. She also mezzed a couple trash mobs that thought it would be fun to bang on me. Think she runed pet 3-4 times. The pets melee DPS + 50point DMG shield was high enough to move his HP bar down, slowly thou. I started to cast shock of steel to make bigger dents on his HP. He doesn't seem to have really all that much HP, perhaps 10-15K (hard for me to figure with his regen)? Seemed like the fight lasted under 2 minutes.

Once he dropped enchanter was almost OOM and I still had 30M. Plus we both had rune 5 on ourselfs each having an unspent trod incase we each needed a quick extra 600mana HP free (rune 5 would have taken all the trod dmg).


>
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#Apr 07 2003 at 3:58 PMRating: Decent
Markn
3 posts
When you calc his HP remember to add he regens 200per tic

Still less than 300+ it is here on P99.
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solo'd by a 60 bard
>

Soloable
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#Apr 18 2003 at 11:45 AMRating: Default
Shimanosan
7 posts
Cazel isn't as hard as some people want to think. Soloed him today, 60 bard. Takes a bit longer to wittle him down with no casters dd's but it is doable. OoS, snare, fear then just melee the guy down. If you get a SG add charm it and have em fight, then refear Cazel. Toss in dots to help counter the regen as well. Granted I am using epic when doing this.

Aze

I know Disease cloud used to stop regen...

[Daldaen]

200 vs 300 is a VERY different discussion than coming in and claiming it should be 7.

Also Disease Cloud preventing regen I will need some evidence on. I can see that being the case out of combat. I'm skeptical of it being functional in combat.

[Itap]

Please show me where it says anything about his regen. I soloed him often in live. If you have something to suggest otherwise, please share it. A post of people bitching about dying to him as a lv 20 says nothing about a lv 60 shaman soloing him.

I'm not going to handpick and quote all the comments about his ridiculous regen, I provided you the link, you find them.

It took me about 30 seconds to find 2 or 3 posts about his regen being 200+ per tick

[nilbog]

http://mqemulator.net/npc.php?id=37157



If you look at the url of this site, and/or read the home page, it is for stock eqemu servers and/or to be used on emu servers that allow macroquest.

Can't be used for real information.

[koros]

Disease cloud is a dot. It never stopped regen.

[ergo]

Disease cloud is a dot. It never stopped regen.

I know I soloed him at 60. 60 Bards are claiming they could dps down

Maybe it has something to do with disease counters and once you hit a certain amount, HP regen slows/stops?

What else are those counters for?


I know I used to kill this guy for lowbies in Oasis, and I would do so in P99.

[Telin]

If you want to challenge the present rate, posting some old discussions about it would help.

These aren't classic, but from 2003 where there Would be some better spells and gear.

"Sorry to bump the somewhat old thread, but rather than starting a new one it seemed appropriate to reply again here.

On my third try I managed to solo Cazel. I would estimate his regen to be around 100 hp a _second_ (especially obvious now that target hp is updated every second). This made even chain nuking with Winter's Frost impractical. However, from my days as a monk using an adamantite bo stick, I remembered a nifty property of large mobs: Cazel's melee range is larger than my rain's radius. So I was able to stand at near max melee range and alternate Winter's Frost with Winter's Storm without hitting myself, and without being summoned (which would interrupt a spell). Once he started running away I had to burn him down with just Winter's Frost; each cast would do about 12% damage, but he'd regen about 8% between casts. I finished with near full health (spirit of the wood+replenishment+nature's recovery was enough healing) and about 20% mana."
Source: http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-2124.html

[ergo]

If you want to challenge the present rate, posting some old discussions about it would help.

These aren't classic, but from 2003 where there Would be some better spells and gear.

"Sorry to bump the somewhat old thread, but rather than starting a new one it seemed appropriate to reply again here.

On my third try I managed to solo Cazel. I would estimate his regen to be around 100 hp a _second_ (especially obvious now that target hp is updated every second). This made even chain nuking with Winter's Frost impractical. However, from my days as a monk using an adamantite bo stick, I remembered a nifty property of large mobs: Cazel's melee range is larger than my rain's radius. So I was able to stand at near max melee range and alternate Winter's Frost with Winter's Storm without hitting myself, and without being summoned (which would interrupt a spell). Once he started running away I had to burn him down with just Winter's Frost; each cast would do about 12% damage, but he'd regen about 8% between casts. I finished with near full health (spirit of the wood+replenishment+nature's recovery was enough healing) and about 20% mana."
Source: http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-2124.html

The only thing is dots ticks vs regen ticks. I can 300 dmg/tick with dots, but that seems to break even.

I very well might have used bane, pox, plague and envenomed bolt + epic. When I get bane and my 55 pet I will try again.

I know I did it, and I do not remember him being able to out regen my dots.

[pasi]

200 vs 300 is a VERY different discussion than coming in and claiming it should be 7.

[ergo]

Fair enough, That was the first example I found and explained what I was seeing, but still something is not right and I am glad we are at least discussing it.

[Itoons]

Don't have proof but I believe his hp regen was 70 per sec in classic.

[Grimjaw]

Then maybe the disease line of dots should stop regen, because I know I soloed him - often.

this...

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5170&p=3#m9820935161310

When I read about this guy, I was surprised that half the people had it easy, and half had it rough. After 3 tries before taking him down, It dawned on me why.....

If he has a high regen rate, all you need is a necro or shm to disease him. His regen stops, and DOWN HE GOES! He dropped in about 1 min on the 4th try with a 49 necro. Good luck!

(Some mentions of "Fear" disabling regen also)

[ergo]

Sweet thanks for finding it. So disease lines should stop the regen. If it isnt, then its broken. :)

[ergo]

Confirmed, disease based dots DO NOT stop hp regen as they should. This is confirmed broken.

[slappytwotoes]

Sweet thanks for finding it. So disease lines should stop the regen. If it isnt, then its broken. :)

This is how I remember it too. It tickled the back of mind when I leveled a iksar monk 5-9 in Befallen. Both the plague rats and necro npcs cast Disease on you yet my sitting regen was still high. On live I remember hating that place cause you wouldn't naturally regen at all with disease on you and needed cure or a regen spell on yourself.

Maybe this was changed later and we simply have the unclassic version. I'll do some research.

[georgie]

Ergo dismissed.

[ergo]

So what are the chances we get disease dots to stop NPC regen added? I tried again with Pox and it did nothing to stop the regen.

[Daldaen]

I'd like to hear more evidence on that.

On regular run of the mill things, this is fine.

But on raid mobs and mobs designed to have high regen like Cazel this is game breaking if wrong. I'd think there would be a mention of disease DoT to prevent mob regen in some raid guides or shaman/SK/Necro guides.

Cause certain raid mobs have 1000+ HP Regen. You're talking about Disease Cloud being able to deliver effectively 150DPS+ by inhibiting regen on mobs, that's more than top geared Rogues.

PCs I can buy. NPCs I'm skeptical on.

[koros]

People made stuff up/exaggerated all the time. 2 posts about it stopping regen are far from proof. It would have been a very well known mechanic if it actually stopped regen.

[kaev]

People made stuff up/exaggerated all the time. 2 posts about it stopping regen are far from proof. It would have been a very well known mechanic if it actually stopped regen.

I always thought "disease dots prevent mob regen" was one of those urban legend type rumors. You know, those "did you hear that..." things that never seem to die. I remember hearing this from multiple people on live, but I never observed a successful demonstration, it always ended up as "oh, they musta nerfed it". That's not to say that it wasn't true at some point and later nerfed, but like the poster above me I'd want quite a bit more than just a couple of forum posts as "proof".

[koros]

It probably started after noobs got rabies from crypt mummies in 99 and couldn't gain their hp back.

[Itap]

It probably started after noobs got rabies from crypt mummies in 99 and couldn't gain their hp back.

[ergo]

Rabies always - even on live - stopped hp regen.

[Haynar]

There is for sure no evidence that disease dots killed hp regen. If anything it could have done, is negate sitting regen for players. Its possible it kills player regen. We can investigate and nerf players if enough evidence is found.

Cazel is not being changed.

Player Regen != NPC Regen. Not a valid comparison.

H

[kaev]

Rabies always - even on live - stopped hp regen.

I am 100% certain that Rabies stopped standing hp regen for low level non-troll player characters, a 1 hp/tick DoT will do that to you. I cannot recollect whether I ever sat down to regen HP with rabies on a character on live and I didn't play any troll characters back then, so I cannot speak directly to either of those but I am doubtful. Again, I heard the claim, but I never saw it proven.

Hell most of us didn't often sit down to regen hp without rabies on live. 20 hp / minute was pretty much too pathetic to bother with after about level four when you couldn't take six steps in a good race newbie/lowbie zone without tripping over 5 druids, 3 rangers, a cleric and a paladin. Most players just kept looking for a cure disease until they found one or they were killed.

Keep in mind that it was quite a few months past release before it was well established that Flame Lick actually did 3 hp/tick, many players remained convinced for a very long time that it did zero or one per tick. Half the mystery of low level spell mechanics in the months after release on live was due to server lag & display latency.

[Kender]

people believed it stopped regen. but it didnt. the dot just removed the 1hp/tick they would have been getting it without rabies

same goes for disease cloud. remember back then there was no text to say how much damage your dots were doing so 1hp/tick dot looked like it was stopping regen

[Ele]

people believed it stopped regen. but it didnt. the dot just removed the 1hp/tick they would have been getting it without rabies

same goes for disease cloud. remember back then there was no text to say how much damage your dots were doing so 1hp/tick dot looked like it was stopping regen

Simpler times. :cool:

[Daldaen]

Simpler times. :cool:

This. I'm so excited to bump this post once Velious spells are in:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65504&highlight=Display

Ohhhhh how good will the game be when the mega OP solo classes who use DoTs actually have to remember how much longer is on their DoT by feel.

[ergo]

There is for sure no evidence that disease dots killed hp regen. If anything it could have done, is negate sitting regen for players. Its possible it kills player regen. We can investigate and nerf players if enough evidence is found.

Cazel is not being changed.

Player Regen != NPC Regen. Not a valid comparison.

H

RE: Why?
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#May 14 2003 at 12:04 PMRating: Decent

Dargadin
Sage
**
950 posts
Disease lasts three times as long as poison based DoTs. They actually do MORE damage overall, and cost less mana per pt damage.

Also, they stop MoB regeneration.
____________________________
______________________________________
Dargadin, Barbarian Shaman of the 61st Season
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=494767
Lost Fires
Ayonae Ro Server


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RE: Why?
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#Jun 16 2003 at 4:37 AMRating: Default

Phluxor
3 posts
Also, keep in mind....your stoping the regen of the Mob and if the fight lasts 5-10 mins it is doing more damage by stoping regen than it is with it's Dps =)
____________________________
/afk looking up info on Allakhazam's site
/snort



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RE: Why?
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#Oct 16 2003 at 3:31 PMRating: Default

Taeldien
*
101 posts
You brought up a very good point about this spell and other disease based spells. If you ever have to fight Cazel in Oasis, you will LOVE this spell because he will not be able to regen with it on him.. and trust me.. he HAS to have his regen stopped because it is incredibly fast.

I was unable to solo him with my wizard (and yes he does summon but not rapidly), because even though I was nuking the l;jlkj out of him (over 3k dmg a nuke - SCF3) he would regen what I was nuking him for just about. I was quickly running out of mana while he was almost staying even in regen with my nukes... What a BEAST! :-) If a necro would have but cast one plague dot on him, I would have owned him with np.. I think if anyone could solo him, it would be a necro or SK. Fear+ Disease DoT.
____________________________
Taeldien Pigstiker
65th Season Deceiver
Doomfir Fromire
65nd Season Necromancer
The Nameless Server

Disease dots should stop NPC regen. There is evidence if you look.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=32

One guy in the entire thread says otherwise...

[ergo]

This. I'm so excited to bump this post once Velious spells are in:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65504&highlight=Display

Ohhhhh how good will the game be when the mega OP solo classes who use DoTs actually have to remember how much longer is on their DoT by feel.

Log parcer /noproblemfound.

[-Catherin-]

Any enchanter worth their salt can solo Cazel anyways by the time they are able to start working on epic ;)

[kalderon]

played a necro on live, helped my guildies with Cazel quite a few times, reason they wanted a necro or shaman is to disease DOT him so his regeneration isn't so insane.

[ergo]

played a necro on live, helped my guildies with Cazel quite a few times, reason they wanted a necro or shaman is to disease DOT him so his regeneration isn't so insane.

I soloed him often and gave away the silver leaf looking item to enchanters...shrug...

[Ricky Bobby]

Cazel is bugged or disease dot is not stopping his uber regen.

[Doctor Jeff]

Cazel is bugged or disease dot is not stopping his uber regen.

its not meant to