Raid Discussion Roundtable: Parking At Spawn Points With Announced Server Downtime

[Erati]

Hello again,

I am reaching out to all the guild leaders in hopes to gather opinions on this practice. We were guilty of this last night, however there was no repop to find out the consequences or if it is even against any rules.

What is everyone's opinion about moving taggers to raid target spawn points when a server downtime is announced ( for example: last night we had 20 min of notice)?

While the server was down - we started to talk about it a bit - and it did feel not in the spirit of our rules here to be parking taggers to instantly FTE dragons upon logging in. To me that is no different than parking toons at raid targets when things are in 'window' or parking at the spawns in general without the intent to be a designated tracker.

This does not have to involve a large amount of Staff oversight - simply if all the raiding guilds agree to not do something like this with announced downtime or agree that it is not in the spirit of the rules then maybe it can be something we all accept and get a rule added to Sirken's sticky.

[Yaolin]

I had assumed Normal pops, Earthquakes, and Server Resets all had the same rules. 2 trackers in the zone or at the spawn point, raid force/puller can't move into zone or to spawn until AFTER the mob has spawned.

It would be pretty interesting though to see 150 people logging in to PoF right under CT...

[arsenalpow]

You already know how I feel about this since I was the one barking at Catherin yesterday. When a repop is announced you get to a safe area, any FTEr should be at a zoneline since cothing is obviously impossible when the server goes down. Camping out on a dragon spawnpoint is complete abuse of the rule set.

[Pint]

Ideally you have to stick to the rules but idk who is going to police log in locations every time this happens. I guess y'all will just petition every time an fte is lost and let the staff figure out where they started from? Also preplanned resets seem different then earthquakes, if you're alrdy farming juggs or hate and it quakes, I doubt you're going to tell your guild to clear the zone.

[arsenalpow]

Ideally you have to stick to the rules but idk who is going to police log in locations every time this happens. I guess y'all will just petition every time an fte is lost and let the staff figure out where they started from? Also preplanned resets seem different then earthquakes, if you're alrdy farming juggs or hate and it quakes, I doubt you're going to tell your guild to clear the zone.

BDA had the first bard in game yesterday at Sev. We actually have the fraps of Deajay checking the zone, F9ing and see Snacks in his rear view mirror, then suddenly Theya popping up at the spawn point of Sev in front of him.

That shouldn't be a requirement though, people should understand the rules and the spirit in which they were developed. Of course it's not ok to log out at a spawn point under the assumption that there will be a dragon there when you log in. How is that possibly justified??

[Erati]

Ideally you have to stick to the rules but idk who is going to police log in locations every time this happens. I guess y'all will just petition every time an fte is lost and let the staff figure out where they started from? Also preplanned resets seem different then earthquakes, if you're alrdy farming juggs or hate and it quakes, I doubt you're going to tell your guild to clear the zone.

Well if we were in Hate - and it quakes - if the plan is to do Inny then we would certainly port out and port right back The Sim repop message sort of hints at that in a way.

@Chest - We agree that parking at the spawn points with announced Server downtime like yesterday would be against the spirit of the rules. When we had some time to talk about it with the server down, we realized having some of our bards park at the spawn locales was incorrect call and probably would have gotten us suspended.

Just made this thread to make sure we all felt the same way. Seems like so far we do.

[-Catherin-]

You already know how I feel about this since I was the one barking at Catherin yesterday.

were you barking at me yesterday? sorry I totally missed that. I wasn't ignoring your barking :p I was probably pretty focused on the situation at hand though, being one of the bards

This is being brought up because we want clarification and are more than willing to go along with what everyone wants to do, as long as everyone agrees to do so.

BTW still need my rights to this forum revoked and another Taken Officer put in my place. I am no longer one.

[Pint]

I dunno, if I were in hate and we got a quake message then Id be pretty tempted to move my guild to the fountain and start from there. I agree that you should not be able to pre park on a reset with a 10-20 min heads up. I know my guild has taken advantage of its positioning on sim repops though, specifically I recall on that back to back sev spawn that we had ppl run to dragon's spawn right when the message hit.

[Erati]

I dunno, if I were in hate and we got a quake message then Id be pretty tempted to move my guild to the fountain and start from there. I agree that you should not be able to pre park on a reset with a 10-20 min heads up. I know my guild has taken advantage of its positioning on sim repops though, specifically I recall on that back to back sev spawn that we had ppl run to dragon's spawn right when the message hit.

Yea I could see both sides of the coin with a sim-repop happening while already raiding in Hate and Inny is avail to your guild.

If most feel that sim repops are the exception to my OP's clarification then I am fine with that as well since it DOES add some flavor and excitement not always having to do 'proper' raiding procedures due to the unannounced and random nature of an earthquake ( IE- having FTE taggers near raid spawns when it pops)

This round table is mostly for the guild leaders to be on the same page expectation wise so there are no surprises when these situations occur.

[Argh]

This is very obviously against the rules.

[Pint]

Asgard will get on board with however y'all want to treat earthquakes. We definitely agree that resets/reboots should be approached according to the rules though, so no one logged out at the dragon spawn, on the mountain, in the vs pit etc.

[Nightbear]

I asked this question to Sirken earlier this month, since Indignation wasn't 100% sure on how Earthquakes worked in respect to the rules.

"In the event of an Earthquake... are characters who are parked in a "tracking" area of Raid.php allowed to get FTE on an Earthquake mob.
Example: Having a Ranger who is camped in the Pots/Wizard spire area of TD, and having his target Faydedar."

His response:

To encourage competitive racing, guilds may not camp players out in the vicinity of raid targets.

I believe this answers the question pretty clearly. Same rules apply to normal mob spawns as it does earthquakes/repops.

[jpetrick]

Sit at the fucking zoneline, this isn't rocket science.

[-Catherin-]

if the same rules apply then I would assume having your two assigned trackers at the spawn point is still okay then. thoughts?

[Erati]

if the same rules apply then I would assume having your two assigned trackers at the spawn point is still okay then. thoughts?

So long as they dont FTE then there should b no violation

[Sirken]

http://i.imgur.com/onjxsbj.png

[Erati]

http://i.imgur.com/onjxsbj.png

Do we have to add an asterisk on that rule to state "This does not apply for Trakanon COH mages?". Every guild that has ever competed for a Trakanon recently has utilized 'tracking' mages that were parked on the mountain next to Trak's spawn.

This is obviously an 'understood and unwritten' rule which is sort of the nature of this Round Table discussion- letting the guild leaders discuss how they interpret things. As we can see there's already an 'accepted' rule that COH mages will be parked by Trakanon regardless what those listed rules say.

So while we are continuing this informative Round Table, whats everyone think about the below situation....

You are clearing the Plane of Hate - the ground shakes and Inny is FFA on the raid page....

Does that guild have to port out and back in to engage Inny? Or can they move in for the kill like Pint suggested he would do with his guild?

I could see arguments for both options - curious what everyone feels is kosher.

Same could be said being in Fearplane and a Sim Repop spawns CT who is FFA.


I dont see any major problem with allowing those guilds continue on and engage the freshly spawned boss who's appearance was a complete surprise to the raid guild.


/thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any responses !

[arsenalpow]

If you're in Hate or Fear you're supposed to GTFO then go back. The earthquake repop is supposed to have a minute or two gap between the rumble and the pop. I know this discussion has occurred before, we've just lost the record of that convo.

I would say mages parked on poop mountain is the lone exception and it's completely unanimous based on guilds that have killed Trak.

[Pan]

Agree that a mage and an anchor on poop is the only notable exception.