Bard Song List Redesign

[ezri]

Dear all,

I am investigating the possibility to redesign the bard song list on the bard page of the wiki to include more information in the list.

I've done a mock up on my user page with a few different design options (which is why it looks inconsistent).
http://wiki.project1999.com/User:Ezri

I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks.

[Sinadin]

nice one :-)

looking forward to the complete song list :D

[zanderklocke]

Looks cool. I like the icon and more specific descriptions. I always forget which lesser used songs are which in my spell book such as the mana drain song, so this will be helpful.

[Valtiel]

Largo's Melodic Binding looks great. Leave it to bards to make something like the wiki looking more elegant. I don't see warriors cleaning up their page.

[Destron]

Love it. A lot of under utilized songs in the bards arsenal.

[ezri]

Cool - I'll start the full list this afternoon - I'll do it on my page first and then move it over to the main page once I've double checked all the data and happy with the templates.

[MaCtastic]

Looks really nice, Update it!

[falkun]

Please ensure descriptions are consistent ("snare" in one description and "decrease movement speed" in another is annoying, because I CTRL+F all over the place to find songs of similar type). Other than that it looks great! Glad to have more people using/updating the wiki!

[ezri]

Falkun - I completely agree - at the moment I'm copy/pasting from the song page, and ignoring what's in the main list. I'll check for discrepancies afterwards (I have found some already).
Mean time, I've done levels 1 to 40 on my test page. Taking a break for a bit cos it's tedious work.

[Adcid]

Love the Icons and detailed song information. I would gear the detailed song info to max level of 60 rather than 65.

Looks great

[ezri]

Adcid - I am copy/pasting what's on the song pages presently, updating them to cap out at lv60 will have to be a separate project. And I agree, I think that should be done as well.

[ezri]

Love the Icons and detailed song information. I would gear the detailed song info to max level of 60 rather than 65. Looks great

With regards to sorting out the level range LV60 vs LV65

For Vilia's Verses of Celerity: AGI 23@L36) to 37@L65 for example would be the following:

Character Level: 60
LevelDiff: ( MaxLevel - MinLevel )
StatDiff: (StatAtMaxLevel - StatAtMinLevel)
CharacterDiff: (Character Level - MinLevel )
LevelStatRatio: StatDiff / LevelDiff
Stat: StatAtMinLevel + ( LevelStatRatio * CharacterDiff )

Character Level: 60
LevelDiff: ( 65 - 36 ) = 29
StatDiff: (37 - 23) = 14
CharacterDiff: (60 - 36 ) = 24
LevelStatRatio: 14 / 29 = 0.4828
Stat: 23 + ( 0.4828 * 24 ) = 34.5872

ROUNDDOWN( 34.5872 , 0 ) = 34
ROUND( 34.5872 , 0 ) = 35

Can any one with a level 60 bard log in and tell me how much AGI you get (without epic sword please) from Vilia's Verses of Celerity?
Thanks.

Assuming I can reach lv32 tonight, I can test this with Purifying Rhythms. ROUNDDOWN() will be MR20, ROUND() will be MR21.

[worch]

+35 agi from verses of celerity at 60.

I like the new look. The only issue I see is that the data is duplicated. It'd be preferable to transclude the data so that it is consistent in both the spell page and bard overview page. When I go to update spell data, its 1) extra work to then go update the bard page, and more importantly 2) people will forget resulting in inconsistent data.

Thanks for improving the wiki. :)

[worch]

Also, I would find it useful to have the spell slots added to each effect. This would help in quickly identifying which songs stack without having to open each page individually.

[ezri]

I got 21MR from Purifying Rhythms @LV32 so it looks like it's rounding to the nearest whole number rather than rounding down.
So what I'm thinking at the moment is to have the song stats like 20@LV45 , 35@LV60 , 40@LV65 so that we don't loose the LV65 part, but also have the LV60 for reference.

Worch: I completely agree that what we've got isn't idea and subject to get out of sync between the songs and the main page. I'm looking into how to use the templates to use {{:Chant of Battle}} as an include on the songs list - but that's going to need a lot of trial and error on my part, but the end product should be ok.

[worch]

Worch: I completely agree that what we've got isn't idea and subject to get out of sync between the songs and the main page. I'm looking into how to use the templates to use {{:Chant of Battle}} as an include on the songs list - but that's going to need a lot of trial and error on my part, but the end product should be ok.

The first idea that comes to mind is to create subpages for the duplicated data. For example {{:Chant of Battle/spellicon}}, {{:Chant of Battle/slots}}, {{:Chant of Battle/skill}}, {{:Chant of Battle/target_type}}, etc. Then in the bard overview page and in the chant of battle page, we'd transclude these common subpages.

[ezri]

Only problem I see with that is that there are scripts that troll the website to update search indexes. If we mess with the pages too much we might inadvertently break something. I'll look at it more next week.

[Tann]

small discrepancy, was probably there before the update, on the song list:

Lv12 Brusco's Boastful Bellow

Freeport
Kelethin

this is actually Freeport and Qeynos, if you click on the link for the song it shows the correct vendors but main page shows the above locations.

Also it lists a recast time of 30.00 which is also incorrect as you can spam this, should be 0.00

[worch]

small discrepancy, was probably there before the update, on the song list:

Lv12 Brusco's Boastful Bellow

Freeport
Kelethin

this is actually Freeport and Qeynos, if you click on the link for the song it shows the correct vendors but main page shows the above locations.

Also it lists a recast time of 30.00 which is also incorrect as you can spam this, should be 0.00

Fixed both of those.

Look at that.. the redesign it helping the community identify wiki mistakes. :)

[ezri]

Worch: it was probably my mistake - I ignored all the spell-list data and copy/pasted what was in each song page into a spreadsheet - most likely I checked the wrong location box for that one. From the spreadsheet; a little bit of scripting magic and BAM wiki markup to copy/paste.

[fiveeauxfour]

fantastic

[ezri]

Question 1:

Do we want
lv1 Chant of Battle
Increase AC by 1 (L1) to 6 (L60) to 6 (L65)
Increase STR by 5 (L1) to 20 (L60) to 21 (L65)
Increase DEX by 5 (L1) to 20 (L60) to 21 (L65)

or just
lv1 Chant of Battle
Increase AC by 1 (L1) to 6 (L60)
Increase STR by 5 (L1) to 20 (L60)
Increase DEX by 5 (L1) to 20 (L60)

Question 2: Do I have any volunteers to check for mistakes?

[zanderklocke]

I'm sure just showing the effects to level 60 would be more useful on this server than to level 65. However, that would also require a lot more work in updating the songs.

[worch]

no need for 65 since p99 will only ever go to 60, so I'd say drop the L65.

I can check for mistakes. Let me know if there is something specific you'd like me to look for.

[ezri]

Okay I've put everything into a spreadsheet on google docs.
If you guys are happy with the numbers I'll start putting them into the wiki.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oCieeD6zb1j0nngvYn9q7gj0XI6V0PciII_MeIlX8gI/edit?usp=sharing

[worch]

Over the next day or two, I'll go through the google doc numbers, working down from lvl 60, and post what I find.

[worch]

Copy of doc with notes as I go through it:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12hQaYRrz-07_dvXvl6WfpXhuNWAydwBRh_QA6p7ca_I/edit?usp=sharing

One thing I've noticed is that the +ATK effect on L56 McVaxius' Rousing Rondo appears to be handled as a floating point, +13.75. What I observe is that depending on the weapon I have, ATK increases by 13 or 14 in the UI. Perhaps we shouldn't necessarily round the L60 values?

[worch]

There are a couple I yet need to test with a willing victim, but otherwise, I'm done. Any issues I found were noted in the doc I linked in the previous post. Several L60 values appear to round up (ceiling), instead of rounding to nearest integer.

[ezri]

Thanks worch; I've been through your list of corrections and checked whether using ROUNDUP() instead of ROUND() works across the board, it doesn't - so I think the exceptions will have to be dealt with on a per song basis.
For the lv57 ATK difference, I'm happy if we put a comment in the song saying that ATK may vary depending on weapon rather than putting in a decimal, which may confuse people.
I'm happy to start with the updates :)

[ezri]

lv65 -> lv60 overhaul completed with comments.
1. Lv58 Jonthan's Inspiration calculation of 62% was made based on max level of 65. The actual max level was 63. Calculation adjusted to 63% to compensate for error.
2. Removed duplicate value ranges (eg; 8@56 to 8@60) from following songs
2.a lv56 Song of Midnight
2.b lv60 Angstlich's Assonance

[ezri]

Next phase - includes rather than duplicating data - this is going to be a lot of work!

On my user page, I've copied Chant of Battle to be "Ezri Chant of Battle" which uses a different template from "spellpage". instead it uses "Ezrispellpage" which uses a new template I copied from the wikipedia.org called "Main Other" which detects whether a page is being included or not - if it's not being included it displays SpellPage, if it is being included it uses BardsongRow.

Problems I currently have
1. Table inside a table caused by SpellSlotRow
2. Spells/Songs are shared Druid/Ranger etc with different levels - is the spell being included from the druid page or the ranger page?
3. Locations aren't short form, they're long form.
4. Consistency across the spell/song pages

I've fixed #2 by having the data passed through from the table - this works.
I've fixed 1 & 3 by having duplicated data in the song page... which is far from ideal.
Any comments are welcome.

http://wiki.project1999.com/User:Ezri#Levels_1_to_10
http://wiki.project1999.com/Ezri_Chant_of_Battle
http://wiki.project1999.com/Template:Ezrispellpage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Main_other

But once all the bugs are sorted out we should be able to roll this very simply out to all classes because the table will literally be
{{StartSpellTable |
{{:SpellName1 | ClassLevel = 1 }}
{{:SpellName2 | ClassLevel = 1 }}
{{:SpellName3 | ClassLevel = 1 }}
}}

[ezri]

I made a new template - SpellSlotRowSmart; this receives a parameter to determine whether to display like the main page or like the Table content - this fixes #1 without compromise.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Template:SpellSlotRowSmart

Locations; we'll just have to have long and short versions; it's not really a big deal - since it's all on the same page. I'm going to make it happen! :)

[ezri]

Okay, I've done the full update on the following page.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Bard/Songs

But I cannot include this page within
http://wiki.project1999.com/Bard

I'm trying to use the below code to replace all of the song section
=Songs=
{{:Bard/Songs}}

However it wont save, it just gives a blank page (I'm assuming an error occurred, but it doesn't say what it is).

I suspect that the maximum number of includes has been reached for that page; because I cannot put the new sections in either.

Okay - I got them in but at a cost - the gearing includes are no longer includes but links.