Casters in velious

[Gzaz]

Serious question as I have never done velious before are casters useless in pvp when velious gear hits. I am told due to the huge change in hp and resists it's almost impossible unless u a meelee char to get pvp kills is this the case?

[SamwiseRed]

Casters in velious are gonna get rolled without being on top of their A game and extremely lucky against an incompetent melee.

[Gzaz]

Casters in velious are gonna get rolled without being on top of their A game and extremely lucky against an incompetent melee.

Makes me think I should of been a meelee when I got this game

[SamwiseRed]

yup see sig, im preparing for velious. if you want kills I would suggest a monk or rogue though. I went with Warrior because I wanted to be a big fat menaie and last a little longer in mass pvp.

[Syft-X]

On live caster's were still extremely viable in velious, here with unclassic hit/dmg on melee's in Kunark dealing 1500-1800 duelist backstab and inner fire tossing 900-1000 dmg SOH on monk, lol roll a melee.

We've had three years of Melee's being insanely overpowered in Kunark I don't see them fixing it anytime soon.

[LoliPops]

http://i.imgur.com/KQJ4u90.png
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/569/804/0c3.jpg

[Pumped]

on live there were no reductions in spell damage, for example lure of ice hit for 850 in pvp and had a chance to crit

here? 525 or some shit because server is stupid

Melee classes will have about 20% better dps and hp will go up by 40% stacking the odds against casters

[Tassador]

I remember quitting when people were gearing up with giant and dragon gear + primal. Remember my Druid and necro never being able to kill shit. But I also remember when people didn't even joust...

[Syft-X]

on live there were no reductions in spell damage, for example lure of ice hit for 850 in pvp and had a chance to crit

here? 525 or some shit because server is stupid

Melee classes will have about 20% better dps and hp will go up by 40% stacking the odds against casters

Well the 66% dmg nerf to dots and nukes did go into effect in Kunark, but on live melee's hit about 30-40% lower and hit rates were much less. That added to the 4 years of kunark and the average resist gear and we see a huge problem in caster vs melee balance.

Then add in Line of sight being broken here, on live you didn't require los to cast just a target in this era. Which forces casters into the perfect killing zone of a melee. Casters spells easily being able to be ranged as a melee jousts in and out of spell range.

Then you clearly see a problem that is growing bigger as it is left unaddressed.

[Pumped]

i played on rallos and can honestly say you didnt resist any nukes until you were vex thal geared with 200+ unbuffed

UNBUFFED

spell reductions are stupid and not classic, but then again this is a custom server anyways and no one cares.

[Gzaz]

Shamans ok in vel still?

[Syft-X]

Shamans ok in vel still?

Yea it will take a few more melee swings to kill you, might last a full 15-20 seconds longer.

[jeffd]

shamans def the best farming toons in velious, shm+mnk or shm+sk being the classic pve dreamteam

as for pvp, if ur a yt / pvp board guy, make a melee right now

melees: (+) hp pools doubling, (+) insane weapon itemization, (+) monks getting 3ple atk
casters: (-) everyone will have 200+ resists, (-) itemization effects casters less (u can raise ur hp/mana pools, but u won't ever hit harder)

kunark was the age of the caster on live, and look how that turned out on this box. verious was the age of the melee. that being said, someone needs to keep the swarms of rogues/monks raidbuffed, so casters will still have a place

[jeffd]

also something 2 note, rogue dmg will not significantly increase in verious outside of gear just getting better overall, as right now the highest dmg rog wep (15 dmg) is the same as the highest dmg verious rogue wep (15 dmg)

this means rogues will actually be toned down slightly as the dmg gods they are atm

don't worry tho because monks will replace them

[jeffd]

3 posts in a row, emotional

[Uuruk]

Sorry pal we have more important things to change like AoNs.

[Rennol]

Sounds like a good time to make a PAL comeback

[iruinedyourday]

3 posts in a row, emotional

verious good posts tho.

[daasgoot]

beware... if you roll a new class that is better and more fun in pvp which better suits your play style, everyone in empire will flame you.

been there done that.

[Widan]

also something 2 note, rogue dmg will not significantly increase in verious outside of gear just getting better overall, as right now the highest dmg rog wep (15 dmg) is the same as the highest dmg verious rogue wep (15 dmg)

this means rogues will actually be toned down slightly as the dmg gods they are atm

don't worry tho because monks will replace them

isnt there a 19 damage mainhand?

[Colgate]

the only main hand upgrades in velious for a rogue are the vulak dagger and the tunare dagger, both of which are 15 damage

[beta]

Would be nice if necro spec pet was more like live and not nerfed like it is here

[Tassador]

Necro pets sucked in love unless fear kiting

[beta]

Spec pet was a beast on live... thank you~

[Buhbuh]

ya hit rate's pretty retarded

[Kergan]

All classes get more HP, AC and resists - a lot more. However, melee damage gets drastically improved through both skill upgrades (a lot of melee/hybrid melee get offensive skill increases) and weapon upgrades. Spell damage stays a constant, and while there are a few nice things in there like ice spear by and large casters take it in the rear end.

Rogues probably see the least damage increase due to the 15 damage cap, although some of the procs are pretty good on those weapons and they will see the defensive upgrades and + hp. The biggest "winner" in Velious is easily the monk, gaining access to high AC and + hp items to go along with their inherently superior avoidance. And to make sure they are OP'd as shit, they get triple attack and access to an inventory clicky 3 slot dispel and a fungus tunic with 10 resist all and +100 hp which are debatably the 2 best items of the xpac.

So yeah, roll your monk now.

[Bokke]

Casters were viable during Velious on live. You could do very well with them.

With how melee seem to be on r99 though I'm pretty sure casters are going to be shredded. R99 mechanics are very different from live.

[Kergan]

I think with the way things are now casters will be in trouble in Velious. The only possible benefit is if resist curves are changed as was previously stated so it will require a lot more resists compared to now. Velious zones are however bigger in general giving ranged classes a distinct advantage.

[Zalaerian]

the only main hand upgrades in velious for a rogue are the vulak dagger and the tunare dagger, both of which are 15 damage

And in PVP, most will favor the 14 dmg dragonspine rapier.

[iruinedyourday]

Well the 66% dmg nerf to dots and nukes did go into effect in Kunark, but on live melee's hit about 30-40% lower and hit rates were much less. That added to the 4 years of kunark and the average resist gear and we see a huge problem in caster vs melee balance.

Then add in Line of sight being broken here, on live you didn't require los to cast just a target in this era. Which forces casters into the perfect killing zone of a melee. Casters spells easily being able to be ranged as a melee jousts in and out of spell range.

Then you clearly see a problem that is growing bigger as it is left unaddressed.

Im just curious what do you base your math out of? Youve been so extremely wrong when you talk about eq before. Is there evidence of the melee hitting 30-40% lower? Im curious.

[Genedin]

Does it not seem like most of these gearing assumptions are based upon someone having most of their slots filled with velious raid-gear? To have +2k HP and tons of resists, you'd have to have almost every armor piece replaced right?

[Malevz]

Problem is not casters, problem is AC does not reduce damage, or does not appear to. So when a melee hits a caster it's like they have 0 AC.

[Boeing B-29 Superfortress]

Problem is not casters, problem is AC does not reduce damage, or does not appear to. So when a melee hits a caster it's like they have 0 AC.

AC has been upgraded to make a difference. Once velious levels of AC+ATK+HP come in, everyone NOT raiding velious will really start feeling the difference snowball

[Malevz]

Sounds classic. I remember paladins and SK's killing full groups of mid/upper 50s.

[awfal]

i played on rallos and can honestly say you didnt resist any nukes until you were vex thal geared with 200+ unbuffed

UNBUFFED

spell reductions are stupid and not classic, but then again this is a custom server anyways and no one cares.

this statement is just not true. i resisted most spells with 130+ resists.

spells hit for full damage on 98% of the rallos population because people were NOT WEARING GEAR. classic/kunark no-drop items didn't have much for resist on them, so you had casters/melee running around with 60-80 resists. only the top pvpers would even wear resist gear, no one wanted to lose their pixels. rarely would you ever see anyone in droppable gear unless they were deep inside a zone.

you also didn't have people running around with bags full of pumice, levi cloaks, etc - most people didn't even know what a pumice did back then.

nevertheless, in velious casters receive hp upgrades too, and there are plenty of strategic locations for casters to pvp in velious.

http://i.imgur.com/qDwSt4t.jpg?1

[Malevz]

this statement is just not true. i resisted most spells with 130+ resists.

spells hit for full damage on 98% of the rallos population because people were NOT WEARING GEAR. classic/kunark no-drop items didn't have much for resist on them, so you had casters/melee running around with 60-80 resists. [/IMG]

He's right, on vallon you full resisted like 95% of mage nukes, wizard draughts, druid nukes, etc. That's why necros and wizards were more feared, -200 and -300 spells were nasty. I ran around with 120-130 mr unbuffed on my rogue and you were basically unsnareable and unnukable outside of lures. Rains weren't worth casting either. By comparison casters have it pretty easy on red99.

[Raev]

Problem is not casters, problem is AC does not reduce damage, or does not appear to. So when a melee hits a caster it's like they have 0 AC.

Actually, I have kind of a pet theory here. I'm betting that stuff like % to hit, damage distribution, ATK vs AC etc are all reused from the PVE code. So L60 melee attacks are treated the same as L60 NPC attacks, and a L60 NPC is supposed to stomp your face in unless your AC is truly epic.

[Uuruk]

this statement is just not true. i resisted most spells with 130+ resists.

spells hit for full damage on 98% of the rallos population because people were NOT WEARING GEAR. classic/kunark no-drop items didn't have much for resist on them, so you had casters/melee running around with 60-80 resists. only the top pvpers would even wear resist gear, no one wanted to lose their pixels. rarely would you ever see anyone in droppable gear unless they were deep inside a zone.

you also didn't have people running around with bags full of pumice, levi cloaks, etc - most people didn't even know what a pumice did back then.

nevertheless, in velious casters receive hp upgrades too, and there are plenty of strategic locations for casters to pvp in velious.

http://i.imgur.com/qDwSt4t.jpg?1

Strategic pvping at their bind point.

[Genedin]

first person pvping huh? is this how you still do it?

[Malevz]

Actually, I have kind of a pet theory here. I'm betting that stuff like % to hit, damage distribution, ATK vs AC etc are all reused from the PVE code. So L60 melee attacks are treated the same as L60 NPC attacks, and a L60 NPC is supposed to stomp your face in unless your AC is truly epic.

That would make a lot of sense. Playing a rogue I used to take apart casters like nothing, but here it's far beyond that. I remember fighting warriors and hitting for like 10-20-30, a warrior with his back in the corner and a 2hander would take me apart with a few hits while I was lucky to dent them, SK's and Paladins were difficult with their AC too.

Here... something is off. Your theory is probably correct.

[Malevz]

Iksar warriors are handsome beasts as well.

[Zalaerian]

Casters will be viable. Play better.

[jeffd]

Ultimate winners in velious but will be iksar warriors.

why is dat

[Genedin]

That would make a lot of sense. Playing a rogue I used to take apart casters like nothing, but here it's far beyond that. I remember fighting warriors and hitting for like 10-20-30, a warrior with his back in the corner and a 2hander would take me apart with a few hits while I was lucky to dent them, SK's and Paladins were difficult with their AC too.

Here... something is off. Your theory is probably correct.

I've said time and time again. Getting backstabbed for 1800 DMG on a 1200AC lvl 60 warrior on a regular basis is not classic and the melee hit dmg/rates needs a nerf.

[Bazia]

I've said time and time again. Getting backstabbed for 1800 DMG on a 1200AC lvl 60 warrior on a regular basis is not classic and the melee hit dmg/rates needs a nerf.

during classic no one was playing melees so melee damage was ninja buffed, I played a warrior throughout the whole thing and I remember logging in and hitting for a shitload more damage and missing way less after one of the patches and being extremely happy about it

it wasn't put in the patch notes for whatever reason, but it was a thing that I dont think it has ever been removed

very hard to get rebalances when it's a different developer doing the changes every couple months with no knowledge of what the people before them were doing

[Malevz]

I've said time and time again. Getting backstabbed for 1800 DMG on a 1200AC lvl 60 warrior on a regular basis is not classic and the melee hit dmg/rates needs a nerf.

The miss/hit rates seem very similar to live for the skill itself, but it was rare to get much more than the minimum backstabs on warriors. Even SK's and paladins with their AC, a mediocre one could beat a rogue pretty easily.

Really more concerned about casters though. On live they weren't nearly so squishy, necros in decent gear could last a while simply drain tanking some melee. Plate classes at least make up for the lack of AC working with HP. Won't someone please think of the casters?

[awfal]

first person pvping huh? is this how you still do it?

nTOV gear, didnt care. quick mouse scroll to make looting quicker.

[Rennol]

Any plate class would tear apart a rogue straight up given that the rogue wasn't ambushing them while they were weak, had optimal positioning, etc. etc.

[Genedin]

The miss/hit rates seem very similar to live for the skill itself, but it was rare to get much more than the minimum backstabs on warriors. Even SK's and paladins with their AC, a mediocre one could beat a rogue pretty easily.

Really more concerned about casters though. On live they weren't nearly so squishy, necros in decent gear could last a while simply drain tanking some melee. Plate classes at least make up for the lack of AC working with HP. Won't someone please think of the casters?

Yea no I agree with you. I simply do not remember melee classes being able to kill a cloth wearer in a few rounds of doing almost full dmg most of the time. I remember fights lasting longer in general.

[R Flair]

On live, most people didn't run around fully geared and fully buffed. Even if you weren't on rz, most people had run of the mill gear. Go spar with a melee here that is using non-BiS gear without buffs and watch how often they miss you and hit for minimum damage.

[Fame]

Casters will find themselves in the diamondcutter on the reg in iceland

[Bokke]

Back in corner + thorns + chloroblast was a viable strategy for druids vs. any melee.
This was at a reasonable gear level for the druid. Very well geared monks could be an issue with disc + lucky staff procs, but rogues had trouble landing backstabs and the rest of the melee damage was manageable.

Nukes also landed after ro, most of the time. (nukes continued to land on VT gear and PoP gear later on when people were sitting at 350 all resists.) the only exception to this was bards with max resists.

Druid AC/mana/hp will go up in velious no doubt, but I'd be surprised if they'll be able to go toe-toe with a melee like they could in classic velious, with r99 mechanics.

[jeffd]

played druid classic thru ykesha, druids were def viable in verious on live. ro+fire nukes was bread/butter, swarms ofc always landed, and melees usually couldn't spare the time to pumice it off since that meant u could just hardcast nukes

on this box ro/nukes will not land, meaning all a dru will be landing is swarm line. any melee can spend 20p on pumice and make u go oom without risk

monks/hybrids def going to shine on this box in verious, rog will fall back to the middle of the pack with warriors, rangers in the back

necros/wizards will be tier1 casters, shm/enc tier2, dru/mag garbagetier

trust ur pal friendly ol mustard

[Colgate]

umm ro + nukes certainly do land here

don't think i've ever resisted breath of ro and i run around with 140-170 FR unbuffed

[Zalaerian]

umm ro + nukes certainly do land here

don't think i've ever resisted breath of ro and i run around with 140-170 FR unbuffed

I believe but not 100%, you can also stack the -200 FR Velious Ro w the current one.

[Technique]

umm ro + nukes certainly do land here

don't think i've ever resisted breath of ro and i run around with 140-170 FR unbuffedThey're talking about ro's fiery sundering, not breath of ro.

And breath of ro is like a 50/50 chance at that resist range.

[Bokke]

the breath of ro landed but usually had to sundering first, once sundering was up nukes landed just fine on everything except bards.

[compulsion]

I believe but not 100%, you can also stack the -200 FR Velious Ro w the current one.

Ro's Fiery Sundering will be -63 FR here, and Breath of Ro, if it lands, will be another -47(?). They did stack on live, it was about the only way to ever land Breath on a player at classic resist rates.