Wurmslayer+

[Warmonger]

Just acquired a Wurmy looking for a good cheapish offhand that will generate threat. Lvl 20 atm.

[webrunner5]

I am not a big fan of a Wurmmy unless you have a pretty good Haste item. But there are a few Warrior only cheap weapons that will work in the off hand. Most drop in CoM. Green Jade Broadsword, Viik's Dark Defender come to mind for cheap items. The faster the better, but that cost money.

Off hand damage is few and far in between. And having it Proc if it can, good luck with that happening. :eek:

[Jimjam]

This is an interesting question; I always struggle on my warriors to settle for a decent off-hander.

[Warmonger]

I got a fbss was thinking jagged long-sword or shimmering partisan. Any thoughts on those?

[Kutsumo]

jagged long sword IMO. Offhand already has a 50% reduced chance to proc, so I wouldn't bother using a terrible ratio procing weapon sub 50 (silken whip would be great after 50).

[Auchae]

I use wurmy in primary and jarsath trident in offhand it's an ok combo

[Jimjam]

Offhand already has a 50% reduced chance to proc,Note, although the above is true, the off hand is able to proc even on rounds where dual wield fails to produce a swing. This means at low skill a proc weapon is arguably best in the offhand.

[Roguejm11]

I have never played a warrior, but I am trying to understand. Why are you using such a slow weapon in the mainhand? Why not like x2 Lammy's?

[Warmonger]

I read somewhere that aggro is all about ratio. Wurmy has a 25/40 ratio or .62ish lammy is 9/19 or.47 ratio. And Wurmy gives me big numbers and I like flashy numbers.Procs are a threat generator as well but at 20 seems unreliable.

[Auchae]

I read somewhere that aggro is all about ratio. Wurmy has a 25/40 ratio or .62ish lammy is 9/19 or.47 ratio. And Wurmy gives me big numbers and I like flashy numbers.Procs are a threat generator as well but at 20 seems unreliable.

Pretty much this. Wurmy has the best ratio in the game for a 1 hander and the huge hits generates good aggro. If you want to rely on procs get a troc skeen for offhand or a pair of those skorp claw impalers. 1 poison proc will pretty much hold agro through anything. But the consistency of straight damage, agro, and at the rate most exp groups can tear through things.. I don't think waiting for a proc is necessary.

I could be wrong though, this is just personal experience. No parses or anything. Wurmy hits really hard and is fairly quick even with just a fbss.

[Kutsumo]

Agro from melee attacks is all about potential damage. Potential damage with your mainhand weapon is related to both the damage of the weapon and the mainhand damage bonus. Faster weapons often pull ahead in DPS as you hit the mid 40s and 50+ because of the damage bonus being applied more often, but it can only do so much. Can anyone confirm that lamentation never has more DPS potential than Wurmslayer even at 60?

[Auchae]

Agro from melee attacks is all about potential damage. Potential damage with your mainhand weapon is related to both the damage of the weapon and the mainhand damage bonus. Faster weapons often pull ahead in DPS as you hit the mid 40s and 50+ because of the damage bonus being applied more often, but it can only do so much. Can anyone confirm that lamentation never has more DPS potential than Wurmslayer even at 60?

Just by looking at the dmg/delay numbers on several weapons available to the warrior, I'm going to say it does not have potential to out dps the Wurmy. With a ratio under(over? it's a .47) .5 and no proc to accompany it, I think it's just an outclassed weapon and should be replaced at the higher end as soon as you can.

[Roguejm11]

So just to follow up, 3 different situations. Lets use a level 25 warrior for the example.

1kpp to spend: which 2 weapons?

5kpp to spend: which 2 weapons?

10kpp to spend: which 2 weapons?

[Kutsumo]

So just to follow up, 3 different situations. Lets use a level 25 warrior for the example.

1kpp to spend: which 2 weapons?

5kpp to spend: which 2 weapons?

10kpp to spend: which 2 weapons?

I base my opinion on leveling quickly and keeping agro by doing more DPS sub 50. You could swap for proccing weapons if that's your thing.

1k: Staff of Battle (~800p) or Jagged Long Sword (~700p) + Jarsath Trident (~100p)
5k: Staff of Battle (~800p) + Wurmslayer (~2.5-3k) + Jagged Long Sword (~700p)
10k: I don't see a reason to spend more, but you could go ahead and bank your Sarnak hammer and Silken whip for level 50.

Replace Jagged Long Sword with Fist of Zek if you are Troll/Iksar and you can keep agi above 75 with it equipped.

Also make sure to buy cheap weapons of every weapon type and try to keep skills capped. You'll still be able to keep agro even with a weapon skill of 0 thanks to the way agro works, but it sucks leveling a skill from scratch when you get a new weapon that you haven't trained.

[Roguejm11]

Thanks for the thoughts!

I am still working toward 60 on my main so the warrior thought is a long way off, but it seems fun.

[kaev]

Agro from melee attacks is all about potential damage. Potential damage with your mainhand weapon is related to both the damage of the weapon and the mainhand damage bonus. Faster weapons often pull ahead in DPS as you hit the mid 40s and 50+ because of the damage bonus being applied more often, but it can only do so much. Can anyone confirm that lamentation never has more DPS potential than Wurmslayer even at 60?

Primary hand damage bonus for levels 58 - 60 is 11, so...
Wurmslayer's 25 base damage gives 61 modal (25*2+11), 61/40 = 1.525, vs.
Lamentation's 9 base damage gives 29 modal (9*2+11), 29/19 ~ 1.5263

Looks essentially equal to me: a less than 1/1000th relative damage/agro edge for lamentation in modaldamage/delay vs. the tiny edge wormslayer gains because delay does not apply to the first swing of an engagement. (Unless I'm hungover and failed at the math.)

[williestargell]

You need to remember at low level there are no huge hits. You are damage capped and no weapon is more affected by the damage cap than wurmslayer.

[Pint]

Wurmslayer is bad, get fast wpns

[Madbad]

wurmslayer wins fashion quest, that's the only thing you need to worry about

[Roguejm11]

Primary hand damage bonus for levels 58 - 60 is 11, so...
Wurmslayer's 25 base damage gives 61 modal (25*2+11), 61/40 = 1.525, vs.
Lamentation's 9 base damage gives 29 modal (9*2+11), 29/19 ~ 1.5263

Looks essentially equal to me: a less than 1/1000th relative damage/agro edge for lamentation in modaldamage/delay vs. the tiny edge wormslayer gains because delay does not apply to the first swing of an engagement. (Unless I'm hungover and failed at the math.)

Sooo... what you are saying is that I could go full on fashion quest. I could make a DE warrior in full crafted gear with 2 lammy's and have about the same dps/agro as someone using a Wurmy.

[Kutsumo]

Sooo... what you are saying is that I could go full on fashion quest. I could make a DE warrior in full crafted gear with 2 lammy's and have about the same dps/agro as someone using a Wurmy.

What he's saying is that wurmslayer won't equal wurmslayer until level 58+. From 20-50, wurmslayer should have a very significant lead.

[Roguejm11]

Well that isn't fun.

[Kutsumo]

Oops I meant to say lamentation won't equal wurmslayer until 58+. Im' sure you understood.

[kaev]

What he's saying is that [lamentation] won't equal wurmslayer until level 58+. From 20-50, wurmslayer should have a very significant lead.

Correct.

Another example. At L40 primary hand bonus is 5, so:
Wurmslayer's 25 base damage gives 55 modal (25*2+5), 55/40 = 1.375, vs.
Lamentation's 9 base damage gives 23 modal (9*2+5), 23/19 ~ 1.211

At L40 wurmslayer should be ~ 13.5% more dps than lamentation in primary hand, it's popular as twink gear because it works. (Note: with very high str and/or when smashing green cons wurmslayer should have an even larger edge due to the damage bonus making up less of the total damage output.)

Such a pity wurmslayer's so incredibly fugly. Every time I see a dwarf with WS equipped (fugly squared!) my eyes reflexively defocus to save me from the horror.

[williestargell]

wurmslayer will always suck for agro. regardless of whether it looks good on paper it is simply too slow. The problem is the 2nd round of combat for the wurmslayer is the 3rd-4th round of combat for fast weapons.

You will virtually always lose agro unless you wait 2 full rounds to call assist as all the monks/rogues/rangers and even nukers have dropped alot of dps before wurmslayer gets its second swing in.

wurmslayer is a dps weapon, not an agro weapon. If you're too low level to proc a decent proc then fast is the only way to go.

[kaev]

wurmslayer will always suck for agro. regardless of whether it looks good on paper it is simply too slow. The problem is the 2nd round of combat for the wurmslayer is the 3rd-4th round of combat for fast weapons.

You will virtually always lose agro unless you wait 2 full rounds to call assist as all the monks/rogues/rangers and even nukers have dropped alot of dps before wurmslayer gets its second swing in.

wurmslayer is a dps weapon, not an agro weapon. If you're too low level to proc a decent proc then fast is the only way to go.

If you're relying strictly on melee threat for agro your agro will suck, period. So many players are so twinked that mobs die too fast to punish undisciplined play with deaths/wipes, thus nobody learns to manage agro here until high level and quite a few are still terrible at it then. Seriously, I've been in groups where it was impossible to get the geniuses to back off to max melee from rooted mobs until the cleric decided he couldn't be bothered healing bad DPS anymore.

A caster/hybrid willing & able to root consistently (must be higher level than the mobs) combined with a healer who has no patience for careless/shitty play is by far the most reliable agro-management available. Nothing else compares because nobody except the warrior can be bothered to care.

[Swish]

I blame the endless sea of epic MQ rogues who don't know what an evade macro is.

[ctre]

I blame the endless sea of epic MQ rogues who don't know what an evade macro is.

mehh ... macro? never needed it.. only 1 extra button push

[khandman]

I was always a fan of Wurmslayer in main hand, and Ssoy in offhand.

[Troxx]

wurmslayer will always suck for agro. regardless of whether it looks good on paper it is simply too slow. The problem is the 2nd round of combat for the wurmslayer is the 3rd-4th round of combat for fast weapons.

You will virtually always lose agro unless you wait 2 full rounds to call assist as all the monks/rogues/rangers and even nukers have dropped alot of dps before wurmslayer gets its second swing in.

wurmslayer is a dps weapon, not an agro weapon. If you're too low level to proc a decent proc then fast is the only way to go.


Wrong. If you're taking procs out of the equation the ONLY thing that matters for threat potential is ratio. Speed is irrelevant until you get to higher levels and the damage bonus creeps up. Even then you have to hit level 60 db before 9/19 outclasses wurmslayer.

I don't know why everyone overlooks jade mace. Not a bad weapon for the price. No proc or trivial stats, but it's all around better than lammy for a weapons intended purpose.

Ultimately at high levels dex and procs are the name of the game. Low levels is all about steady melee threat. Ratio and haste is most important imo.

[Evia]

I don't know why everyone overlooks jade mace. Not a bad weapon for the price. No proc or trivial stats, but it's all around better than lammy for a weapons intended purpose.

seriously. I have wondered this myself! it's also never talked about for a Rogue offhand either even though Seb Dirk always is. Seb dirk is 15ishk and 10/18 with some minor stats. jade mace is 1-2kish and 9/18. Jade mace is completely overlooked by most and under appreciated imho.

[Troxx]

Double post

[Troxx]

For under 50 it's all about ratio and your group being smart. After 50 it's a balance btw ratio and procs but ultimately aggro is the groups responsibility.

People always talk about silken whip as a 50+ weapon but for 300-450p it's a 14/28 ratio. I'd argue it's great from level 10 up either primary or offhand. If you have another faster 0.5 ratio weapon or a better slower ratio weapon use that mainhand.

Me personally? I'd buy it bargain early and use it. If strapped for cash pair it with Jarsath Trident.

Both of those are relatively cheap for their ratio. Jade mace is over double the whips price. Wurmy much more. Lamentation worse ratio and expensive. Trident is a good value. Jagged blade is a great weapon value as well. Staff of Battle? Also great.

The -5ac sucks but remember your weapons exist to kill things and hold threat. If you're not loaded on coin the whip is a good value even before it starts to proc.

For the price, lamentation really is a piece of garbage. Ratio lackluster for the cost. Stats are grossly overrated. Money is better spent elsewhere.

[Thiefboy777]

Ya lammy is for looks.

Jade mace is a great weapon, good value, so many classes can use.

Kunzar Ku'juch is dirrrrt cheap 8/22, just looks goofy .

Fist of Zek good value offhand if you can stay over 75 agi with it.

Skorpikus claw impaler good value, procs at 30.