LNS Violations.

[snufzaimoverlord]

The fact of the matter on LNS is that the majority of people on all teams have respected it and follow it, and violations are almost always accidental because of zoning, or logging in, or grey areas with people staying in a zone to long or hanging out after they "LNS'd"

Should cap suspensions for this at 7 days max, it's a minor offence pals. No more cumulative penalties. Too many people on all sides are fishing for bans.

[Tameth]

The best part is when you attack an Azrael member and they lie and claim they are LNSing. So, while you're asking your pals if he called LNS and checking the leaderboard for a recent YT, they make it to the zoneline and plug. I agree, get rid of LNS.

[Buhbuh]

Or change something in the PnP so that these petitions are A) not necessary and B) not ruled on definitively unless there's cross examination and real evidence provided.

It really just feels like if someone is petitioned several times without proof of a violation, or petitioned with circumstantial evidence, that's considered "proof." I'm sure people have felt slighted on both sides. There's no account for, like Gaping said, people just logging in or zoning when something was said in ooc, nor any other grey areas.



This game of petitionquest is getting old and boring. Something in the policy is way too blue. This petitionquesting wouldn't exist otherwise. It genuinely is creating a server of babies. The climate right now is far worse/ shitty than when we had to deal with being corpse camped.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

Or just don't be dicks and leave naked people alone.

[Gongshow]

There are plenty of threads regarding this right now but as short and to the point as possible:

The PNP is a flat out disaster. The rules are antiquated and filled with loop holes and grey areas. They need an overhaul, or just need to go away and turn into something much simpler.

Bottom line is the spirit of PNP and LNS is so that no one is prevented from getting their corpse or prevented from playing the game if they want to. Every time someone gets suspended for an LNS violation (whether it's Empire, or Azrael) - it's usually an accident. Someone is zoning or just logs on and misses an LNS call and kills someone else. They realize what they did, say sorry, and let the person pack up and leave. The person killed then petitions someone's honest mistake, and they are looking at a 7 day (or worse, a multiplicative day suspension) for quite frankly, nothing.

I don't think I can recall a time when someone has purposefully corpse camped someone or ignored LNS. I'd say the spirit of LNS is already ingrained into R99 culture so every time someone gets suspended over it - it does nothing. No one is being "taught a lesson". The only thing it promotes is more petitions and more work for GM's as people ban fish over nothing. The very rules that are designed to make the server more appealing to the masses are actually a black eye that keeps the server mired in bullshit.

What's the answer to this? I really don't know at this point. A band-aid would be a flat 3 day (or 7 day at worst) suspension for LNS violations. This would still promote the frivolous petition quest that we see now, but at least it wouldn't have long lasting negative effects on the server where people potentially quit over some insane ruling on an honest mistake.

Raid LNS? That's an entirely different story that I don't feel like addressing or getting into - but some others are currently on the right track. There needs to be some penalty for losing the fight, and right now there is none.

Ultimately, I would love to see an open discussion involving the community and GM's where we can make some real progress on a clear and concise rule set before Velious hits, but I feel like that is a pipe dream.

[Widan]

Bottom line is the spirit of PNP and LNS is so that no one is prevented from getting their corpse or prevented from playing the game if they want to. Every time someone gets suspended for an LNS violation (whether it's Empire, or Azrael) - it's usually an accident. Someone is zoning or just logs on and misses an LNS call and kills someone else. They realize what they did, say sorry, and let the person pack up and leave. The person killed then petitions someone's honest mistake, and they are looking at a 7 day (or worse, a multiplicative day suspension) for quite frankly, nothing.


The answer to this is the GM's actually following their written PNP. It's very clear that you have to call LNS every single time a new player zones in.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148787

If a new player enters the zone, you must call Loot and Scoot so they are aware of your intentions.


You literally have to spam LNS if people keep zoning into the zone you are trying to get your corpse from otherwise it is not valid. Calling LNS one or two times is not adequate. In these instances often times the person petitioning is the one who has not been following the PNP since they don't repeat it every time a new person zones in. It's up to the GM's to actually follow their own rules.

[Nirgon]

Character's name tag needs to change color if they ooc LNS

[BardPop]

I say make the lns tag automatic, make it something that can be visible

[Terpuntine]

We have a AFK tag, add one for /lns

[Nirgon]

^ also goog

[Buhbuh]

could see problems with lns tag being abused

try to use it to get through zones effectively where you'd otherwise find a lot of PvP

[vouss]

You guys are a bunch of nerds, stop trying to twist the rules you obviously broke them

[Gzaz]

You guys are a bunch of nerds, stop trying to twist the rules you obviously broke them

Always one person who has to give a childish mark when this is an idea for the game

[Swish]

If there's a system where an end result can be a suspension/ban it'll always be abused.

Part of the fun tho, eh?

[superrogue]

Pay attention to OOC then!

[SVentura]

Or, you know, we could all agree as a group of generally humane (I might be assuming a lot here) people to not participate in the petty petition wars?

[SVentura]

we can, and will punish in game accounts for actions on the forum

Thanks. Interesting side note: as a head without a body, I envy the dead.

[Rednaros]

My rogue is suspended till july for killing Roarie while he called LNS and i was zoning (terp) as witness...i apologized and let him retrieve his corpse..a couple days later suspended until july for an honest mistake
This is being abused heavily

[El Camacho]

Turn off /anon and /roleplay while on loot and scoot.

Short term fix anyhow.

[Tassador]

Turn off /anon and /roleplay while on loot and scoot.

Short term fix anyhow.

Says the guy who kills rags runs from riches toxic kid.

[Uuruk]

I got banned at lvl 10 pvp for killing someone who tried calling LNS in /say where I couldn't see it. Banned within 3 minutes literally.

[Silent]

let people /who zones from anywhere imo see where people at no more /anon.

[LostCause]

screw PnP

[El Camacho]

Says the guy who kills rags runs from riches toxic kid.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Anyhow it was just a suggestion.

[Samsung]

The fact of the matter on LNS is that the majority of people on all teams have respected it and follow it, and violations are almost always accidental because of zoning, or logging in, or grey areas with people staying in a zone to long or hanging out after they "LNS'd"

Should cap suspensions for this at 7 days max, it's a minor offence pals. No more cumulative penalties. Too many people on all sides are fishing for bans.

I actually agree with this, I'm a cleric so I never go through any of this.

[Slathar]

if you take pnp away i will corpse camp these shitty blue players for 10+ hours while training, petitioning, and youll thank me for it

[Silent]

Honestly with the group exp bonus how it is now, I see nothin wrong with puttin back the 3% pvp exp loss. It will weed out the cowards that will avoid pvp at all cost, Giving the players willing to put their shit on the line more free reign to do a camp or exp group. Then again it might encourage WAY more plugging. But back when like a SK lost 3% exp from a pvp death, and it took them ~4 hours of seb grouping at disco to get that back, it was understandable why none of them went beyond harmtouch and plug basically.

[Luniz]

The very rules that are designed to make the server more appealing to the masses are actually a black eye that keeps the server mired in bullshit.

[Jarlon]

The best part is when you attack an Azrael member and they lie and claim they are LNSing. So, while you're asking your pals if he called LNS and checking the leaderboard for a recent YT, they make it to the zoneline and plug. I agree, get rid of LNS.

SO THATS WHY YOUR SCORE IS SO LOW!! WOOOO

[fred schnarf]

I got banned at lvl 10 pvp for killing someone who tried calling LNS in /say where I couldn't see it. Banned within 3 minutes literally.

protip : Dont kill naked people

[Uuruk]

protip : Dont kill naked people

Nah, after you start harassing me in tells after the first time I kill you your LNS is then over. Never helped that he didn't call it in the first place.

[Wrench]

My rogue is suspended till july for killing Roarie while he called LNS and i was zoning (terp) as witness...i apologized and let him retrieve his corpse..a couple days later suspended until july for an honest mistake
This is being abused heavily

if youve been zoning, and someone running in rags:

/ttell you have 5 seconds to re-ooc lns

[Slathar]

shut up idiots

[kildone]

I agree no PnP. Let PvP decide and enforce 'rules'. The only argument I have heard in favor of PnP was to increase population. I hear true PvP players from all guilds say the increase in population are all blue anyways.

To date I have never called LnS. Looking forward to someone trying to make me. Will be 50 on cleric this weekend and hopefully 60 soon so hoping for some hard lessons. Maybe I may change my mind.

[Meiva]

Don't like LNS myself. Maybe there's a middle ground like no LNS 50+. Guild up by 50, and make friends. You should have to work to retrieve your corpse in many cases. Might spare the GM team from investigating many lame LNS petitions. You've likely pissed someone off if they are campin your corpse.

[Silent]

Pretty much, if the community could police itself halfway even that would go a long way in cutting down on the BS gm's have to deal with potentially giving them more time to try and deal with shit. assholes get camped, people who just want to kill you and then don't care and fine with letting you move on sure why not.

But most of the time you see someone get killed and they explode in ooc/tells bitching and whining about being killed, then call LNS while still bitching and taunting and pushing their lns as far as they can to get player to kill them or do anything remotely in favor of a violation. People who can't stop crying and whining in ooc/tells after LNS was called need to be dealt with.

The idea of being flagged for /LNS seems interesting though, but I don't see it ever being added. Too many variables. Like if it made you immune to being pvp'd or just showed your name in a different color to let anyone in range know hey they are on LNS. Maybe if they took away all ability to cast spells benficial or other while in that mode so a person couldn't rez/heal/buff etc.

[Clark]

The best part is when you attack an Azrael member and they lie and claim they are LNSing. So, while you're asking your pals if he called LNS and checking the leaderboard for a recent YT, they make it to the zoneline and plug. I agree, get rid of LNS.

Best part for me was when you try and KS my blue Tranix king that dropped a Tranix Crown. Fail at KS. Petition me, and lose petition. :)

Do agree though LNS is terrible! So is PNP. Carebear pvp needs to be eliminated. Bring back classic pvp. Lot of people making these carebear rules never stepped foot on Rallos/Sullon/Tallon/or merged Zek. GM interference was unheard of.

[Uuruk]

Best part for me was when you try and KS my blue Tranix king that dropped a Tranix Crown. Fail at KS. Petition me, and lose petition. :)

Do agree though LNS is terrible! So is PNP. Carebear pvp needs to be eliminated. Bring back classic pvp. Lot of people making these carebear rules never stepped foot on Rallos/Sullon/Tallon/or merged Zek. GM interference was unheard of.

Paging knix

[Kesrin]

How about instead of trying to get each other banned off the server we stop petitioning for stupid shit like lns. Then the gms would no longer spend hours on it.

I know it won't happen because of all the crybaby fucks on his server, but why not try to take matters into our own hands and just no longer petition shit like that?

[Buhbuh]

It's sort of become ingrained as a tactic to hurt certain guilds that people don't like/ want to burn to the ground at all costs.

It's hard to say "just stop doing it," especially when it's so effective.

[Tune]

if there is a conflict u can easily win

run away