my theory of daybreak recognizing us.

[muggalol]

They are scared and know once velious hits we will take their flagship game away from them. We are playing the game from Verants original core game and 2 expansions. This server doesn't break any rules. I hope i dont get in trouble for saying this but they had to acknowledge P99 now since they did more Live will come here hopefully red blows up for the few left over on Rallos zek live. Our velious release scares them honestly and their progression isnt p99 (core game plus 2 expansions) the progression is trash based off what is left of EQs community voting. I dont play EQ i play P99. I can see why we are happy about this we made such a huge impact that they asked a emulator to not drop velious. PRAS. Thank you Rogean (and the rest).

[Baler]

They're not scared of P99. P99 is not perfect, I would presume that live eq has branches and repositories of old eras of eq. Meaning they probably have a perfect classic, kunark and velious, etc server code.

They see P99 as a fan based server and figured it would be a better investment of time and energy to work with p99 rather then work against it. Both sides win in this situation with fairly little investment. P99 has grown quite a lot in popularity with a community to back it up. I simply see it as two sides working together for the greater good of EQ. More talk about EQ = more people playing EQ plain and simple.

It's good to give thanks. But don't "pras" like a mindless drone. I see this far too often on these forums.

[pharmakos]

what i heard was that they didn't start preserving a lot of old code until like Luclin or PoP era.

[Baler]

what i heard was that they didn't start preserving a lot of old code until like Luclin or PoP era.

If that is the case then P99 is probably the closest to a perfected classic era of EQ. It wouldn't make sense for live to invest time and money on re-creating or reversing.

It's a shame we/they couldn't look ahead into the future. Preservation of server code seemed so overlooked back then. Just like preservation of information specific to expansions and eras. We're stuck using waybackmachine websites, logs, screenshots, videos, etc. *sigh*

My major qualm with p99 is that there are bugs or missing content from classic & kunark. For example specialization for spell casting was just implemented a few months back yet the server has been online for years. I'm afraid that with velious things may get overlooked or there may be more things that go unfixed for months or years. But I am happy that velious may fix or override any of the older bugs and missing content.

You can say that the devs have real lives and this isn't their full time job. It just seems like anyone these days can setup a private server and get "praz" for this or that.
Coming from the UO community, I know this all too well.

[Catashe]

If that is the case then P99 is probably the closest to a perfected classic era of EQ. It wouldn't make sense for live to invest time and money on re-creating or reversing.

It's a shame we/they couldn't look ahead into the future. Preservation of server code seemed so overlooked back then. Just like preservation of information specific to expansions and eras. We're stuck using waybackmachine websites, logs, screenshots, videos, etc. *sigh*

My major qualm with p99 is that there are bugs or missing content from classic & kunark. For example specialization for spell casting was just implemented a few months back yet the server has been online for years. I'm afraid that with velious things may get overlooked or there may be more things that go unfixed for months or years. But I am happy that velious may fix or override any of the older bugs and missing content.

You can say that the devs have real lives and this isn't their full time job. It just seems like anyone these days can setup a private server and get "praz" for this or that.
Coming from the UO community, I know this all too well.

Everytime I see someone mention and/or complain about the bugs or missing content on this server makes me sad... I mean give Rogean, Nilbog, and the rest a break I mean my god... They work on making this server the best it can be in there part time.. Sure their not perfect and no they don't spend every free min working on this server. I mean its not like they are getting PAID to do anything with this server...

[Ele]

Everytime I see someone mention and/or complain about the bugs or missing content on this server makes me sad... I mean give Rogean, Nilbog, and the rest a break I mean my god... They work on making this server the best it can be in there part time.. Sure their not perfect and no they don't spend every free min working on this server. I mean its not like they are getting PAID to do anything with this server...

I wish people would report bugs or stuff they know is wrong instead of exploiting it or falling back on "someone else will do it."

:(

[Dac321]

Its like a celebrity meeting their own impersonator, but when they were much younger, better looking and popular...

Way to go P99 for being recognized by the round table at Daybreak/SOE.

[Swish]

These days I'd give either H1Z1 or Planetside 2 (doing big things on consoles) as their flagship titles.

EQ1/2 have some forever loyal fans but they're not bringing in that big money... unless people are lapping up those Station Cash items as well as subbing 3-4 accounts each.

[Guide.Chroma]

These days I'd give either H1Z1 or Planetside 2 (doing big things on consoles) as their flagship titles.

EQ1/2 have some forever loyal fans but they're not bringing in that big money... unless people are lapping up those Station Cash items as well as subbing 3-4 accounts each.

Hey guys remember Dragon's Prophet?

Oh, no?

nevermind...

[Swish]

My major qualm with p99 is that there are bugs or missing content from classic & kunark. For example specialization for spell casting was just implemented a few months back yet the server has been online for years. I'm afraid that with velious things may get overlooked or there may be more things that go unfixed for months or years. But I am happy that velious may fix or override any of the older bugs and missing content.

You can say that the devs have real lives and this isn't their full time job. It just seems like anyone these days can setup a private server and get "praz" for this or that.
Coming from the UO community, I know this all too well.

Like no other project that I can think of, Velious depends on a good beta and its up to the community to do as much as possible to ensure inaccuracies are at a minimum on launch night. If the beta server is up its worth logging in and seeing if you can spot anything thats definitely wrong... and with evidence to prove it it'll likely be corrected.

One quirk of Velious was in ToFS, I had a wizard at that time who was struggling to get his defense skill maxed. There's a bookcase in there somewhere which is a floor trap, and back on live you could skill up defense on it. Finding evidence of that though has been tough so I'm hoping it'll work for my non-melee characters here but we'll see ;)

If everyone neglects the beta we'll probably still get a good Velious as Nilbog is the best around but he shouldnt have to do it alone when theres 2000+ people in this community.

[Taryth]

You know, the people on their forums come up with crazy theories and stuff about us, too. There is a lot of libel and BS being slung around, it's all rather dramatic.

Everyone, on both sides, is looking into this way too deeply.


This one in particular made me laugh.

The reality is that they are a horrible community with an entitlement mindset. Say you're off in a nice corner somewhere soloing stuff with your mage, druid, whatever. Along comes another player in the zone who immediately sends you a tell that they want to join you. If you say no, forget your reputation. It's over, so you have to let them group with you.

Now your having to talk to some random dude who's more interested in socializing than actually playing. After a while you log off hoping that the guy isn't going to smear you. Maybe you're not soloing, perhaps it's some real life friends your playing with but no, have to let anyone in because you never know what sort of drama you may cause if you don't accept every passerby.

After 2 or 3 months of this you're finally reaching a high level and you're finally fed up so you don't bother ever going back there again.

[Ele]

This one in particular made me laugh.

yikes! That person has some issues.

[Grimjaw]

If that is the case then P99 is probably the closest to a perfected classic era of EQ. It wouldn't make sense for live to invest time and money on re-creating or reversing.

It's a shame we/they couldn't look ahead into the future. Preservation of server code seemed so overlooked back then. Just like preservation of information specific to expansions and eras. We're stuck using waybackmachine websites, logs, screenshots, videos, etc. *sigh*

My major qualm with p99 is that there are bugs or missing content from classic & kunark. For example specialization for spell casting was just implemented a few months back yet the server has been online for years. I'm afraid that with velious things may get overlooked or there may be more things that go unfixed for months or years. But I am happy that velious may fix or override any of the older bugs and missing content.

You can say that the devs have real lives and this isn't their full time job. It just seems like anyone these days can setup a private server and get "praz" for this or that.
Coming from the UO community, I know this all too well.

what the f*** are you smoking? go setup your own server right now and see how many pras you get :)

[RevengeofGio]

They're not scared of P99. P99 is not perfect, I would presume that live eq has branches and repositories of old eras of eq. Meaning they probably have a perfect classic, kunark and velious, etc server code.

They see P99 as a fan based server and figured it would be a better investment of time and energy to work with p99 rather then work against it. Both sides win in this situation with fairly little investment. P99 has grown quite a lot in popularity with a community to back it up. I simply see it as two sides working together for the greater good of EQ. More talk about EQ = more people playing EQ plain and simple.

It's good to give thanks. But don't "pras" like a mindless drone. I see this far too often on these forums.

They probably don't btw :) most major companies no longer have old code bases.

[Clark]

what are you smoking? go setup your own server right now and see how many pras you get :)

lol

[Swish]

You know, the people on their forums come up with crazy theories and stuff about us, too. There is a lot of libel and BS being slung around, it's all rather dramatic.

Everyone, on both sides, is looking into this way too deeply.


This one in particular made me laugh.

When "sorry dude I'm semi afk doing X in the background" won't do, get yourself a tinfoil hat, worry incessently of what the community will think of you and throw your hands in the air and say "I can never play there again"

Interaction is what makes this community so good. That player probably 12 boxes on the Hidden Forest now and never talks to anyone.

[Clark]

Interaction is what makes this community so good. That player probably 12 boxes on the Hidden Forest now and never talks to anyone.

:) Poor 12 boxers.

[jarshale]

You know, the people on their forums come up with crazy theories and stuff about us, too. There is a lot of libel and BS being slung around, it's all rather dramatic.

Everyone, on both sides, is looking into this way too deeply.


This one in particular made me laugh.

The guy you quoted sounds autistic as hell.

[webrunner5]

I wish people would report bugs or stuff they know is wrong instead of exploiting it or falling back on "someone else will do it." :(

Sad to say a lot of people, including me lately, probably fall into that category.,:o

[Ravager]

I honestly hope Daybreak decides to buy P1999 and starts selling access. The rate at which bugs get fixed would go up, and the customer service mentality of the devs and GMs would change: it would go from being "its our server, play by our rules or we will destroy you" to "this is making us money and we need to treat players like customers."

However, as P1999 has the support of Smedley and other Daybreak execs, I doubt it will change (even more so with the agreement signed). I guess I'll have to buy millions of $$$ of Sony/Daybreak stock to see it happen.

If they did this it would kill the server, not because people don't want to pay for it, but because they'd have to turn it into a profit machine to sustain it and that means appealing to the lowest common denominator and implementing cats on the moon and pop books.

It'd be better, imo if they bought it and sold the server software and the databases and the client so that it could stay in the realm of hobby projects Then, if anyone develops content for it, they can sell it through dbg and then both the ip holders and devs can get get something for their work and the gamers get a lot more options.

[senna]

I dont see how p99 stays the way it is now thats its tagged by DBG. They will monetize it somehow. Should be interesting to see what happens.

[Swish]

If we had SOE/Daybreak style guides they'd quit in a week.

[Roguejm11]

Maybe Dabybreak plans on buying P99 out?

[Swish]

Actually we'd end up with a server with integrity and one that doesn't cater to the vocal minority of asshats with nothing better to do than make 10,000 posts on an EQ forum.

Did I strike a chord there?

I take it you act this way in real life based on your post about rogues pickpocketing in game being representative of how people act in the real world?

much love <3

[Swish]

I'm not above calling idiots out on their bullshit in real life, nope. I firmly believe that if more asshats were called out on their asshattery behavior, the world would be filled with a lot less asshats.

Do you know why there are things called social norms? Because society deemed that an acceptable way to act and go about your life. We're fucking doomed if the majority of posters and people in this community end up becoming the 'norm', sorry if you disagree.

For your own sake I'd get off the internet immediately before your heart explodes...you're sitting here on a forum getting mad about people's behavior on a forum.

Zoom out for a moment.

[Treats]

Good grief, some of you are delusional.

There is no way they do not have every patch and alteration of the game from 1999 to present archived somewhere.

Why would they pay for their own product, thats just stupid.

[Seltius]

Hey guys remember Dragon's Prophet?

Oh, no?

nevermind...

Would you hate me if I said yes?

[radda]

what the f*** are you smoking? go setup your own server right now and see how many pras you get :)

thank you (insert radda .gif)

Good grief, some of you are delusional.

There is no way they do not have every patch and alteration of the game from 1999 to present archived somewhere.

Why would they pay for their own product, thats just stupid.

im sure it's on some interns floppy disc in his grandma actic

[Duncon]

I honestly hope Daybreak decides to buy P1999 and starts selling access. The rate at which bugs get fixed would go up, and the customer service mentality of the devs and GMs would change: it would go from being "its our server, play by our rules or we will destroy you" to "this is making us money and we need to treat players like customers."

However, as P1999 has the support of Smedley and other Daybreak execs, I doubt it will change (even more so with the agreement signed). I guess I'll have to buy millions of $$$ of Sony/Daybreak stock to see it happen.

You must have a completely different experience with MMORGs run by for profit companies or a different idea of what makes one good to say something as strange as that. In my experience they all slide inevitably away from what I appreciate.

I am very grateful P99 gives me a game that does not make “customer service” and appeasing the loudest complaints as the top priority in order to keep the $ flowing.

[Sirken]

There is no way they do not have every patch and alteration of the game from 1999 to present archived somewhere.

ok ;)

[Doors]

Good grief, some of you are delusional.

There is no way they do not have every patch and alteration of the game from 1999 to present archived somewhere.

Why would they pay for their own product, thats just stupid.

They actually don't have much if any of the old EQ code which is probably what they got out of this agreement Rogean made with them.

[Swish]

Good work Brad, he did us a favor :)

[myriverse]

No QeynosCorruptGuards outside my window. S'okay with me.

[Wrench]

I wish people would report bugs or stuff they know is wrong instead of exploiting it or falling back on "someone else will do it."

:(

3250 unresolved and counting

Good grief, some of you are delusional.

There is no way they do not have every patch and alteration of the game from 1999 to present archived somewhere.

Why would they pay for their own product, thats just stupid.

lol, im still shocked how some around here consider you some sort of pillar of knowledge and rational thought

[Lisset]

I honestly hope Daybreak decides to buy P1999 and starts selling access. The rate at which bugs get fixed would go up, and the customer service mentality of the devs and GMs would change: it would go from being "its our server, play by our rules or we will destroy you" to "this is making us money and we need to treat players like customers."


Did you never play EQ live during the Verant era? Why on earth do you think that a for-profit company would ever not have the "it's our server" mentality?? The slogan was "you're in our world now". I saw people banned for calling me (on my Guide toon) an asshole. Nothing more than that and a GM in a bad mood. I saw my server GM kill Inny because 2 guilds kept training each other, but not intentionally, trying to get to it. Look up Abashi and see how they engaged the community.

There were so many bugs, some weren't fixed for years and are now considered "classic" such as the way boats in OOT went the wrong direction but was never even attempted to be fixed. Or multi-questing. Faction mistakes. Illusions (such as those under gnome illusion appearing huge to anyone who zones in after). Their own bugs were often called "exploits" rather than fixing them.

John Smedley ran Verant then and runs Daybreak now. Use your head!

[Seltius]

Good grief, some of you are delusional.

There is no way they do not have every patch and alteration of the game from 1999 to present archived somewhere.

Why would they pay for their own product, thats just stupid.

I was told that when they revamped Velious they didnt keep the old code intact since they wouldnt need it again. They modified the coding 2 or 3 times in some cases more over the life of SoV in SoL and beyond. Some of which was prior to them bothering to back alot of it up. I also heard they lost some of it during the changes to staff on the project. Some things were left unfinished and someone new picked it up scrapped some of the code and changed things. The revamp that moved PoM dollhouse to GD and quite a few other changes over the life of Velious impacted what they have saved.

[wormed]

Are they even going to reveal what this agreement entails? I don't see what they get out of keeping people in the dark.

[Ele]

Are they even going to reveal what this agreement entails? I don't see what they get out of keeping people in the dark.

It is quite common for agreements to contain non-disclosure provisions or mutually-approved disclosure requirements.

So if keeping people in the dark means not being in breach of contract, then yeah they will keep people in the dark.

Stop worrying and play P99 or don't.

[eisley]

Don't think it is the patches that are the problem. They likely do have some or most of them, somewhere. I think the problem is the database and scripts. It wouldn't have much sense for them to constantly back those up unless they specifics foresaw releasing a classic server ten years later. Not likely.

[wormed]

It is quite common for agreements to contain non-disclosure provisions or mutually-approved disclosure requirements.

So if keeping people in the dark means not being in breach of contract, then yeah they will keep people in the dark.

Stop worrying and play P99 or don't.

I'm not worried at all. Just curious. If they reveal, great, if they don't, oh well.

[pink grapefruit]

Whatever happens, I hope red99 continues to thrive and the teams server happens and becomes a success. SOE had a track record of ruining their pvp content and then simply shutting down the servers when no one wanted to play them anymore.

[Grimjaw]

Don't think it is the patches that are the problem. They likely do have some or most of them, somewhere. I think the problem is the database and scripts. It wouldn't have much sense for them to constantly back those up unless they specifics foresaw releasing a classic server ten years later. Not likely.

definitely not missing any patches, anymore at least:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190539

[Nicoladen]

Well - If I were Daybreak and wanted to take over p99 I would buy the real assets - the p99 staff.
I would hire the p99 staff and ask them to make a Daybreak server in the spirit of p99.
A progression server following the exact timeline and with all expansions. Never been done - and with enough manpower and the access to source code I think it could be achieved.
I know I would play that server....I would pay to play that server.

[Stormfists]

I honestly hope Daybreak decides to buy P1999 and starts selling access. The rate at which bugs get fixed would go up, and the customer service mentality of the devs and GMs would change: it would go from being "its our server, play by our rules or we will destroy you" to "this is making us money and we need to treat players like customers."


Within a year they'll start rolling out Luclin, PoP, etc and charge $9.99 per download.

So... basically... you want a full progression server hosted by Sony/Daybreak.

Good news bro, your perfect server starts in June. Sad to see you go but best of luck.

[Swish]

Whatever happens, I hope red99 continues to thrive and the teams server happens and becomes a success. SOE had a track record of ruining their pvp content and then simply shutting down the servers when no one wanted to play them anymore.

Agreed, and that doesn't just apply to pvp content... they let fans decide on a new server, then when it's underpopulated (but certainly not dead, has a decent community) they float a rumor that they're considering a shut down of that server.. THAT then causes the rest of the community to disperse, and oh shit... then we see an announcement that the server is getting movelogged into an existing server and replaced with something else.

- SOE, 2009

[Danyelle]

Daybreak does have archives as far back as 1999, but not like you think.

For example, the recent patches Dzarn made to Live (That I considered porting over to P99) that fixed all the black spots on old models also put in a complete overhaul of animations fo most Luclin models that were originally intended to be the model animations at Luclin release but they changed them for one reason or another. It also put in several changed textures including a 'nightmare pegasus'

http://i.imgur.com/BPhMjSu.jpg

New beetle and pixie textures (additions, not replacements)

http://i.imgur.com/skP1aY6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZOyXL94.jpg

The missing High elf merchant models

http://i.imgur.com/sYXbQpD.jpg

Kazon Stormhammer's unique model

http://i.imgur.com/NZpL7t1.jpg

and King ak'Anon's unique model

http://i.imgur.com/XFssmjA.jpg

All of which had been sitting unused in a 'vault' since 1999. Never implemented for whatever reason. They also have the Firiona Vie unique model (minus animations) they used in a screenshot on the back of the Luclin box that never went in.

However, model and zone backups and archives aren't necessarily code. Point being they DO keep backups and archives tucked away from the days the game released, but if you're expecting them to have entire server code back ups that is highly unlikely, they may not even have EQMac's set up anymore. And that only sunset a couple years ago

[Ele]

and King ak'Anon's unique model

http://i.imgur.com/XFssmjA.jpg


That's awesome.

[Fame]

What I really want to see is the staff here get formally recognized for a job well done, nothing says GOOD JOB!! like a pat on the back and maybe a spirited handy

[Ravager]

That's awesome.

Off topic, but I always wanted city leaders to be raid bosses. This King ak'Anon would be sweet to raid. Maybe as custom content someday...

[Swish]

What I really want to see is the staff here get formally recognized for a job well done, nothing says GOOD JOB!! like a pat on the back and maybe a spirited handy

As good as Paypal donations are to keep the server running, I'd like to see a PO Box set up as well to send things to the staff... you know, like they do for other games (https://youtu.be/5H50My3riac?t=24s). From breakfast burrito vouchers to Family Guy box sets... imagine the possibilities.

[stormlord]

They are scared and know once velious hits we will take their flagship game away from them. We are playing the game from Verants original core game and 2 expansions. This server doesn't break any rules. I hope i dont get in trouble for saying this but they had to acknowledge P99 now since they did more Live will come here hopefully red blows up for the few left over on Rallos zek live. Our velious release scares them honestly and their progression isnt p99 (core game plus 2 expansions) the progression is trash based off what is left of EQs community voting. I dont play EQ i play P99. I can see why we are happy about this we made such a huge impact that they asked a emulator to not drop velious. PRAS. Thank you Rogean (and the rest).
Given all that Rogean says is true and Daybreak is saying they somehow acknowledge p1999's existence and won't pursue legal course, I think ti's just a show of faith. By lending p1999 some weight, I envision some p1999 players will in turn play on live just for the hell of it, or at least think of them on good terms.

It's a general thing. I think for it to really work they need to bank on a new game or something, though. EQ is old hat. EQ was fun, but if daybreak wants a future they need to focus on it, not the past.

But damn ya Rogean is a great organizer and voice for this community. Solid and reliable so far.

EDIT: Credit goes to Nilbog and everybody else too.

[mgellan]

Good grief, some of you are delusional.

There is no way they do not have every patch and alteration of the game from 1999 to present archived somewhere.

Why would they pay for their own product, thats just stupid.

They don't, they've said they don't. They may have object code archives of patches (like those posted) but not source code. And by the way, even if they HAD source, recreating a running system (including database, config etc etc) as of a certain point in time from old source code archives is pretty damned difficult work for expensive people who are currently engaged in developing code that is aimed at maximizing their revenue. Buying code is cheap in comparison. I hope they just decide to distribute clients for a reasonable amount rather than buying out P99 tho...

Regards,
Mg

[Millburn]

http://www.tentonhammer.com/interview/exclusive-interview-daybreak-games-president-john-smedley

Smedley: "What we recently announced with Project 1999 is the first time we've ever endorsed one of these emulators, and I am really proud of that deal. We never could have done that at Sony. It is really important to us because I never want to paint these emulator guys as anything but our number one fans and the hardest working people I've ever met. So to be able to support it officially like we have, it makes me feel good. I'd like to think that those are the kind of people I would hang with, and those are good people.
Q: On that note, does that open the door for other modders and emulators to start projects for Star Wars Galaxies, Vangaurd, or any other former or current properties for these kinds of experiences?
Smedley: So Star Wars Galaxies isn't ours. That's a Lucas call entirely. So we're not road-blocks on that. What I will say though, is that we will support people who do it right. On the SWG side, there were some who weren't. There were source code issues - and we need to look at that a little tighter, but in general if people want to do it right we will support them."

[pharmakos]

from the newest FAQ regarding the new EQLive Progression server:

Q: Will Kithicor Forest be in its current dangerous state at night?

Yes. The zone was changed before we had the ability to save alternate datasets, so it will start off as it is now. Keep an eye on the clock!

[Grimjaw]

so they didnt save anything pre kunark but maybe by kunark they started saving everything. note how they are restoring plane of hate with all the original spawns

[Treats]

lol, im still shocked how some around here consider you some sort of pillar of knowledge and rational thought

As opposed to some dipshit that can barely form coherent sentences and posts meaningless drivel?

Gotcha.

The Velious RC database from May 2001 has already been shown to exist on some Germany server.

To think the code is not backed up there or somewhere else is stupid, most likely they just have no desire/gain to retrieve it.

And by the way, even if they HAD source, recreating a running system (including database, config etc etc) as of a certain point in time from old source code archives is pretty damned difficult work for expensive people who are currently engaged in developing code that is aimed at maximizing their revenue.

Yes, and this is why it probably won't ever happen.