Bard starting stats

[keglo]

I want to make a half-elf bard. What is the best stats to put my starting points into? Any other tips would be appreciated too.

[Ando]

Charisma/Dex with a priority on Charisma. Being able to lull/mez/charm is way more important than doing 2% more melee dps.

[BlackMambaLAL]

Charisma/Dex with a priority on Charisma. Being able to lull/mez/charm is way more important than doing 2% more melee dps.

What exact split like 20dex/5cha?

[zanderklocke]

Sta, dex, and cha. At the end of the day though, it really doesn't matter too much.

[keglo]

Thank for the help guys. Is it too expensive being a Bard? Don't you have to buy all sorts of instruments and weapons? What instruments should I buy first?

[Renault]

Bards are not too expensive. Just pick up all your vendor instruments. You can upgrade to Mistmoore Drums and Lute of the Gypsy Princess (the two instruments you use when grouping) for pretty cheap in EC. Banded armor will serve you fine, and Bard only weapons are cheap....Sainy's Singing Dagger is cheap, Sionache's Partisan is like ~400pp and will last you til 60 if you need it to, Symphonic Saber can be picked up around 1k-1500pp, etc.

[Lorian]

I'd say If you plan to cc or a lot, put most of it in CHA. Although CHA is the cheapest stat to raise with jewellery so maybe go with whatever you want. STR is good for not being encumbered in general and if you want to be able to wear bronze armor early on put some points in there. Personally I put 5 STR and the rest CHA as I plan to charm kite later on.

[Lorian]

Also bards are utterly crap at melee (unless heavily twinked) so would not bother getting expensive weapons. My bard is on holiday until the hybrid penalty goes.

[falkun]

Always carry a lute and drum, vendor is fine until you can loot the MM drum and lute in your 30s. Wear banded/whatever until planar. The only recommendations to buy are the 5AC/55HP rings and some starter MR/CR/FR gear. Bards are one of the least gear dependent classes in the game (besides the hard-as-nails to obtain epic). Bard specific weapons are cheap.

Starting stats are mostly a toss-up, CHA or STA are both decent choices. If I could put my starting stats into resists, I would have.

[zanderklocke]

I wish there was a way we could see how dex/cha tie into the formulas for mez, lull, and missed notes. Obviously, level plays the largest role, but how do these stats work into the formula.

[pink grapefruit]

Put all 25 into sta, have an extra 100hp at 60.

[keglo]

Nice! Thanks for all the tips guys!

Also bards are utterly crap at melee (unless heavily twinked) so would not bother getting expensive weapons. My bard is on holiday until the hybrid penalty goes.

Is that penalty going away at some point?

[Renault]

In like 6 months. Don't sweat it, you will not feel it so much in early levels. Enjoy the class - bard is one of the hardest to play well, and you need the extra time at each level to experiment with different tactics. Read all the guides, learn all the songs, which ones stack, etc.

[keglo]

Ok now that I have my bard made can you guys help me with something else? I read somewhere else on this forum that a Bard can start kiting multiple mobs starting at level 2. I have tried this without much sucess. I only have two songs. Can someone explain to me how to do this exactly?

[Darguth]

Ok now that I have my bard made can you guys help me with something else? I read somewhere else on this forum that a Bard can start kiting multiple mobs starting at level 2. I have tried this without much sucess. I only have two songs. Can someone explain to me how to do this exactly?

Helpful vids provided in literally the top thread in this subforum at the moment: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181605

Essentially you just need to turn on Chords of Dissonance and then hold downthe forward and strafe buttons simultaneously. Use your mouse's right-click button to turn, and turn in a circle such that you'll hit the mobs with your PBAoE pulse, but they won't hit you.

This functions because players in EQ move slightly faster while running + strafing than they do with just running. So any mob of normal speed (i.e. not SoWed or something) will run slower than you while doing this.

I just started trying this and there's definitely a learning curve. Your margin for error is very small, but at low levels you can survive a few screw ups that would insta-kill you later. I just started P99 a few days ago with a Bard and I was able to get a 45+ mob kite going outside Kaladim at level 4, got me 23% XP in that 1 pull.

[Loke]

Put all 25 into sta, have an extra 100hp at 60.

Hope you followed this advice. HP, and by association STA, is king for most classes. CHA wont affect you much since unlike an enchanter, none of your songs have very long duration. Ive never geared my bard for CHA and have never had an issue mezing or charming. One place CHA will help is crit resists on lulls, but bards do get quite a bit of CHA gear, and both paladins and enchanters can easily buff it to a workable level since max CHA isnt really necessary. Max STA on the other hand is important, and it is much harder to max than STR. DEX is nice, but at 60 with like 160 DEX ive never had problems with missed notes.

HP, STA and resist are really the most important bard stats, everything else is secondary.

[webrunner5]

I would put a ton of it in Strength. Heffers suck at starting Strength. If you want the Blue Man look you will be encumbered with 50 plat on you. Been there, done that.

Unless you want to sing a strength Song all day take my advise. :D

[Synthlol]

Put all 25 into sta, have an extra 100hp at 60.

Anyone who disagrees with this doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Aaramis]

Hero bracers = ~350pp
Crested helm = ~400pp

For less than 1k, that's +16 STR (and +3 CHA).

[Saludeen]

I put all my points in dex, then 5 in strength because missed notes will wreck you during pvp, str helps with melee and carrying plate (bards still melee depending on the situation), and cha doesn't seem to make a difference. You don't need alot of gear, but its still worth getting a good weapon early on because melee is your primary source of damage at lower levels. And you'll never fully abandon melee. Buy vendor instruments and ask around for some help with spell money or extra bronze / blackened / etc gear. Make sure you bind your keys because clicking sucks too. I plan on making a complete bard tutorial soon. I'm a new bard on the server (Suif) but I played the old red box as a 50 bard.

[keglo]

Wow. A lot of conflicting advise. I think I am more confused then when I first asked the question. :confused:

:D

[pink grapefruit]

Missed notes are not as bad as they may seem. With spellcasters, a fizzle costs mana and wastes some time (fizzles are not instant). A missed note happens instantly and obviously does not waste mana. You can restart the song right away and the worst that will happen is a song drops for a second or two while you get things going again. Imagine it could be really annoying with low dexterity, but keep in mind that all bard races start with highish dex. Lowest is 85 if you're human. Plus there is always dex on bard gear. There's a lot of str and cha, too. Not so much sta.

And 100hp is definitely not insignificant at level 60. Honestly to me it's such a no-brainer that I'm surprised there are differing opinions at all.

[zanderklocke]

Wow. A lot of conflicting advise. I think I am more confused then when I first asked the question. :confused:

:D

Some people play raid bards, others solo, and some mainly group.

You're getting different advice based on the situation. On a raid, 100 HP could save you a wort pot burn when getting AEed. 100 hp difference in a group probably doesn't matter too much.

Cha will make you get less early charm breaks and less critical lull resists. That probably isn't that useful in a raid situation since when would you ever be lulling or charming as a bard at a raid?

With all things with EQ, it depends...

[keglo]

Some people play raid bards, others solo, and some mainly group.

You're getting different advice based on the situation. On a raid, 100 HP could save you a wort pot burn when getting AEed. 100 hp difference in a group probably doesn't matter too much.

Cha will make you get less early charm breaks and less critical lull resists. That probably isn't that useful in a raid situation since when would you ever be lulling or charming as a bard at a raid?

With all things with EQ, it depends...

Oh ok. Well Im sort of a "It's not the destination, but the journey" kind of guy. I don't really see a lot of raiding in my future. It has never really been my thing. So for someone who will do a lot of solo play and not going to raid, then CHA is king?

[Darguth]

Oh ok. Well Im sort of a "It's not the destination, but the journey" kind of guy. I don't really see a lot of raiding in my future. It has never really been my thing. So for someone who will do a lot of solo play and not going to raid, then CHA is king?

If you're AOE kiting you probably won't lull/charm *that* much either. STA would probably be more helpful so you get a slightly larger margin of error if you screw up your kite.

If you're mainly going to group I would think CHA/DEX would be most useful so your lull/charm/mez resist less and you miss fewer notes in your twisting rotations. Alternatively STR is nice for melee DPS and encumbrance.

I plan to mainly group with my HE Bard with some AOE Kiting mixed in, and I went for +15 CHA and +10 DEX as my starting stats.

I do wish my STR was better though, I can't carry anything with my bronze armor on. If I did it again (I'm not one for re-rolling based on just starting stats) I'd probably do like +10 STR, +10 CHA, +5 DEX.

[Nozaro]

I did 10 STR and 15 STA on my bard and never regretted it. I mostly solo and group. The 10 STR is less about adding melee damage and more about not getting encumbered because you looted a research page from something you killed. It really helps with being able to actually carry loot while wearing plate early on. As for the STA, as others have mentioned in this thread HP is king no matter if you are solo/grouped/raiding.

I have never had a problem with charm breaks or more importantly crit lull fails so i dont regret not putting points into Dex/Cha. Bards also get a ton of Dex and Cha from gear so it isnt really an issue.

[Saludeen]

Dex so you miss less notes. Then str so you're not encumbered constantly. sta HP increase is minimal, and the effect of charisma is unnoticable.

[Synthlol]

sta HP increase is minimal

Putting 25 points into Stamina yields 100hp at level 60.

Imagine getting an extra ring slot to wear another Djarns Amethyst Ring. Rolling full stamina is better than that, and stamina is notoriously hard to cap. You don't make effective choices in this game if you think a bonus 100hp is no big deal.

[Saludeen]

100 hp is a single hit from mobs at 60. Not missing notes is more valuable than being able to take 1 extra hit in my opinion. HP is like RAM where eventually it becomes redundant as long as healers can cover the damage, with the exception of tanks who need a large pool for bigger spikes, or non-healing classes in solo pvp. If DEX is easily capped at 60 then maybe STA is better so the points aren't wasted though.

[Synthlol]

100 hp is a single hit from mobs at 60. Not missing notes is more valuable than being able to take 1 extra hit in my opinion. HP is like RAM where eventually it becomes redundant as long as healers can cover the damage, with the exception of tanks who need a large pool for bigger spikes, or non-healing classes in solo pvp. If DEX is easily capped at 60 then maybe STA is better so the points aren't wasted though.

If your attitude is that 100 hp isn't a big deal, you're not just going to end up 100 hp short of someone who knows that hp is king.

[Daldaen]

If your attitude is that 100 hp isn't a big deal, you're not just going to end up 100 hp short of someone who knows that hp is king.

Correct, because the person who thinks HP is king will be dead from getting stunned, feared, and rooted while trying to kite PoFear and PoHate trains.

Velious bard trains will be even more fun.

[pink grapefruit]

100 hp is a single hit from mobs at 60. Not missing notes is more valuable than being able to take 1 extra hit in my opinion. HP is like RAM where eventually it becomes redundant as long as healers can cover the damage, with the exception of tanks who need a large pool for bigger spikes, or non-healing classes in solo pvp. If DEX is easily capped at 60 then maybe STA is better so the points aren't wasted though.

It's interesting that you feel sta (or just hp in general) gives diminishing returns, but seem to think that dex is useful up to the cap. Have you done tests to prove how effective dex is in reducing missed notes?

[Saludeen]

It's interesting that you feel sta (or just hp in general) gives diminishing returns, but seem to think that dex is useful up to the cap. Have you done tests to prove how effective dex is in reducing missed notes?

I havn't tested it, so I could be wrong. Maybe end game mechanics + gear is enough to make putting points in dex useless. I understand your point. If dex is high enough to make the missed note chance 5% (or whatever you prefer) then those points would be better put into stamina. I've changed my mind.

[Synthlol]

Correct, because the person who thinks HP is king will be dead from getting stunned, feared, and rooted while trying to kite PoFear and PoHate trains.

You used to post with such credibility.

[Daldaen]

You used to post with such credibility.

Lol. 100 HP from 20 STA, while helpful, is less valuable than making sure you can cap your resists at 255 in most any raid situation.

I don't question the value of STA as putting your creation stats into STA. However when gearing, Resists (atleast up to the point where base resists + Songs can cap you at 255) are more important. Especially in the current situation of dragon FTEs.

With Bard + Normal Resist buffs, you need to be able to hit:

130 Magic Resist
75 Poison Resist
145 Disease Resist
140 Cold Resist
140 Heat Resist

Many times resist buffs aren't available etc, and those values go higher. But an epic'd bard with PoM Flowers and some raid pieces will just naturally be able to hit those values after a few months.

[Synthlol]

I'm not arguing the incredible importance of resists, especially SVM.

You can't roll stats into SVM at character creation, though, so you're just trying to poke holes in my statements by coming up with circumstances where the generalizations aren't perfect.

Excuse me for not typing up a thesis detailing every nuance of bard stat availability with respect to character creation, gearing, buff stacking, and song selection.

HP is king. It doesn't mean it's the only stat you ever need.