Paladin miss rate

[qwerty]

Is it just me or do paladin miss a lot. Does this get any better in Velious?

[maskedmelon]

Kinda sucks through 40's and on, but is readily corrected with additional str. Just drop berserker str before each fight and maintain yaulp throughout if you are soloing. If you are grouping it doesn't much matter, but if it bothers you just use same start and keep your str buffs up. If it is still not to your liking, itemize for str/atk. You'll still lag behind pure melees though.

[Nirgon]

The most OP shit in Diablo 3 was zDPS builds for a while (probably still is)

Tanks with infinite aggro, good cc and nigh unkillable

I like to think of paladins in EQ like this

Have you tried carrying a fully charged SoulFire at all times? Tell me that's not OP

[kaev]

Soulfire is not paladin exclusive, any class can click from inventory. I doubt paladin toons have received even 10% of the Soulfires awarded on p99. Hell it wouldn't surprise me to learn that necromancers have done more Soulfires than paladins on p99. Unless you're discussing Fiery Avenger quest Soulfire has no place in a p99 paladin class thread. If you want to talk about an OP class go talk about monks, a class that outnumbers paladins better than 10:1 and has no doubt accounted for many more Soulfires than paladins on p99.

[JayN]

use teh spells for teh agros

Melee including paladins hit way to often already

[Sage Truthbearer]

Paladins miss a lot compared to what? There's nothing unique about Paladin miss rate. We have the same melee skill caps as Shadow Knights, so we're no better or worse.

[kaev]

Paladins miss a lot compared to what? There's nothing unique about Paladin miss rate. We have the same melee skill caps as Shadow Knights, so we're no better or worse.

Same as SKs, yes. But Haynar confirmed months ago in some other thread that paladin and warrior do not use same combat table. Nevermind how mind-boggling it is that "combat tables", a bizarre relic of 1970's pen & paper gaming, were stuffed into a computer moderated video game in the late '90s. EQ's devs worshiped in a confused and disordered mob along the edge of the swamp of obfuscation and lies and random ill-considered bullshit. They deeply loved shit like having the same thing (i.e. attack skill, defense skill, Attack stat, Armor Class stat) mean multiple different things.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Paladins miss a lot compared to what? There's nothing unique about Paladin miss rate. We have the same melee skill caps as Shadow Knights, so we're no better or worse.

This is why it boggles my mind when people say paladins suck. Apparently SKs are better, but because of what? FD? If you're tanking, usually you're not pulling, unless you need to break a camp. :confused:

But then, most tanks are warriors with that shitty pray2proc threat generation and don't have FD, so they rely on the group to do everything else.

So while paladins don't have the "utility" that SKs have, and rely on the group to do everything else (like warriors), at least they have amazing agro. Sure they can't MT raids, but neither can SKs.

I've always viewed pallies as the supreme group tank and every group i've been in, everybody was happy to get one tanking for us. Rogues love them because what's evade with a pally tank? Wizards can start nuking before the mob is even in camp, by the time the cast lands, the pally is already far ahead.

The miss rate, or DPS is completely irrelevant when everyone is allowed to go full throttle and disregard agro limitations because the tank keeps everything locked on himself at all times.

[maskedmelon]

Same as SKs, yes. But Haynar confirmed months ago in some other thread that paladin and warrior do not use same combat table. Nevermind how mind-boggling it is that "combat tables", a bizarre relic of 1970's pen & paper gaming, were stuffed into a computer moderated video game in the late '90s. EQ's devs worshiped in a confused and disordered mob along the edge of the swamp of obfuscation and lies and random ill-considered bullshit. They deeply loved shit like having the same thing (i.e. attack skill, defense skill, Attack stat, Armor Class stat) mean multiple different things.

I am nont familiar with how the damage tables were implemented, but if it is similar to the ago tables used in ac calculation, it just means we have lower attack rating (which we do due to our lower offense skills as well). The problem is mitigated by increasing str (and ark rating buffs i.e. GA) which raises attack rating, but obviously not eliminated since there is a common cap on str. That means that no matter what we'll be behind other classes in the absence of any kind of cap on attack rating.

[maskedmelon]

This is why it boggles my mind when people say paladins suck. Apparently SKs are better, but because of what? FD? If you're tanking, usually you're not pulling, unless you need to break a camp. :confused:

But then, most tanks are warriors with that shitty pray2proc threat generation and don't have FD, so they rely on the group to do everything else.

So while paladins don't have the "utility" that SKs have, and rely on the group to do everything else (like warriors), at least they have amazing agro. Sure they can't MT raids, but neither can SKs.

I've always viewed pallies as the supreme group tank and every group i've been in, everybody was happy to get one tanking for us. Rogues love them because what's evade with a pally tank? Wizards can start nuking before the mob is even in camp, by the time the cast lands, the pally is already far ahead.

The miss rate, or DPS is completely irrelevant when everyone is allowed to go full throttle and disregard agro limitations because the tank keeps everything locked on himself at all times.

I don't think anyone here is arguing paladins suck ^^ Patron deities aside we recognize heresy when we see it. Paladins do suffer from poor accuracy and while we share skills/tables with shadow knights, shadow knights are generally large races with a significant advantage in starting str over most paladins. That provides an edge I'm reducing misses. 60str can make a huge difference in accuracy depending on your level and the level of the mob.

To add to everything else you said, we are also fantastic pullers and respectable cc abilities. I admit I am jealous of classes with FD, but in normal circumstances it doesn't provide anything you can't accomplish with lull and root.

[kaev]

Knight damage output sucks, and that's reasonable even if it's stupid that a 1000 ATK stat on your char sheet actually means "well, 1000 for a paladin, lol". Embrace the whiff! If it bugs you that much pretend you're a marketeer and call it a feature (you take less riposte damage generating the same melee threat!)

We (including SKs in the "we" here) get the same agro per swing as every other melee that gets primary hand damage bonus (suck it bards!). Although we don't get the superior agro of dual wield with top shelf weapons (2h agro is mildly gimped), our 1handers have outrageous ratios and we get discretionary agro producing abilities (spells) that make warriors green with envy and allow us to hold the mob by the nose and laugh about it even without generating any melee threat at all (i.e. if you weren't actually drunk that time you plowed enrage when they let you tank in Sky just admit that you suck and reroll as a rogue.).

Just remember that holding agro (your primary job as a group tank) doesn't depend on you actually hitting the mob. A great group can do a little bit more with the extra damage output of a warrior tank, but that takes 5 excellent players and warrior who isn't a mouth-breather. On the other hand, an ok group can do great things for a few hours with a first-rate knight tank and that only requires one excellent player (you). A good warrior allows a group to reach its potential, a good knight can lift a group above and beyond that.

[Bluedarksun]

Soulfire is not paladin exclusive, any class can click from inventory. I doubt paladin toons have received even 10% of the Soulfires awarded on p99. Hell it wouldn't surprise me to learn that necromancers have done more Soulfires than paladins on p99. Unless you're discussing Fiery Avenger quest Soulfire has no place in a p99 paladin class thread. If you want to talk about an OP class go talk about monks, a class that outnumbers paladins better than 10:1 and has no doubt accounted for many more Soulfires than paladins on p99.


Agreed. Soulfire should be made paladin exclusive though. It does say PAL after all and not all the other inferior classes. Nothing worse to see than watching those bright red letters from Brother Hayle awarding one mostly to everyone, other than paladins, popping up in the chat box.