Autosplit System: P99 vs Live

[Rogean]

Now that the P99 autosplit system is revamped, heres how it works:

If there's enough coin to divide by the member count of the group, it does so until it can't and gives the remainder to the looter.

This means if you have a full 6 person group and the mob drops 5 plat, 13 gold, 3 silver, and 10 copper, everyone but the looter gets 0 plat, 2 gold, 0 silver, and 1 copper, and the looter gets 5 plat, 3 gold, 3 silver, and 5 copper.

While I understand that it isn't fair, I coded it this way because it's how I thought it worked on live. I'm posting this thread to see if anyone can provide me evidence or insight into how the system really works on live, with details, so I can code the system to replicate that behavior.

[Rogean]

I'm actually wondering if it downconverts remaining coin. Like with 5 plat in a 6 person group, it can't split that, so instead it downconverts to 50 gold, and then splits that?

[tanknspank]

Iirc this is how it worked on live. Coins didn't get converted to offer an even split.

[Pimask]

From what ive seen so far, if theres 5 plat, 4 gold 3 silver and 2 copper in a 6 person group; i get all the moneys.
[Edit] I don't recall getting the 'You recieved 0 plat, 0 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper as your split' message everytime i made no money though.

[Rogean]

[Edit] I don't recall getting the 'You recieved 0 plat, 0 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper as your split' message everytime i made no money though.

That's being fixed.

[Live4Redline]

This is also the issue I'm seeing allot as well. Many, many, many 0, 0, 0, 0 splits.

I don't remember getting this many empty splits off mobs that have more then 5p.

But I do remember the splitter getting more then the rest of the group... just not all of it.

[Lanvaren]

IIRC there was some ridiculous formula/random pattern for distributing the coin.

Definitely don't remember autosplit working the way that it currently does now... seems to me like it would just randomly assign the coins while attempting to be pretty fair about it.

As an example: /split 1 here gives you the coin back. /split 1 on Live, IIRC, would just give it to a random person. Looting worked similarly.


Edit: person who looted would usually come out with more coin on average... ties would go to him.

Downconverts... maybe in some cases, not really sure. I remember a lot of rumors like "Don't /autosplit! you'll destroy the good coins! /split later!"

[quellren]

I can't prove it, but I'm 99.99% sure it split every coin type by the numbers of the party. I distinctly remember ending up with a metric shit ton of copper and silver camping SolB while the actual plat pieces were gained by selling the FS weapons.

It was essentially my understanding the mechanic took a coin type, split everything evenly and broke it into the next smallest type if not everyone got one. The looter gets the odd remainder.
So in a 6 man group, the 5 plat becomes 50 gold, and each person gets 8 gold (48g), and the looter gets the odd 2. 3gold becomes 30 silver, each person gets 5sp, and so on...

Again, I can't prove it, just how I seem to remember it.

Edit: Too Slow. Rogean, I agree, downconverting seems right.

[Rogean]

I'm leaning towards a downconvert system

[yaeger]

[QUOTE=Rogean;153650If there's enough coin to divide by the member count of the group, it does so until it can't and gives the remainder to the looter.

This means if you have a full 6 person group and the mob drops 5 plat, 13 gold, 3 silver, and 10 copper, everyone but the looter gets 0 plat, 2 gold, 0 silver, and 1 copper, and the looter gets 5 plat, 3 gold, 3 silver, and 5 copper.[/QUOTE]

Is there a way to code it so that it splits it as much as possible? What I mean is:

Mob drops: 5 plat, 13 gold, 3 silver, and 10 copper

Instead of everyone getting 0 plat, 2 gold, 0 silver, and 1 copper except the looter, it'll randomize the 5 plat and give it to 5 people in the group, not necessarily the looter.

So, one player might get: 1 plat, 2 gold, 1 silver, and 2 copper
While the odd one out would get: 0 plat, 2 gold, 2 silver, and 1 copper

[Rogean]

I'm thinking it would be, for example.. with 5 platinum.. it would downconvert, splits 48 gold evenly, downconverts the remaining 2 to 20, splits that 18 evenly, remaining 2 to 20 copper, 18 evenly, looter gets remaining 2?

[Sidious]

I do not recall getting buckets of gold from a downconvert split system such as this. On my server though it was very common to have someone master loot and then at the end of group port to say lavastorm, sell junk, and do a /split.

Even though it isn't classic though, changing the split system from the even one it is here just feels like putting buggy code/shoddy code back in for the sake of it, I dont think it really adds to 1999 immersion.

[Live4Redline]

I would say Quellren's explanation seems like it fits best as to what I personally remember.

The looter got more, but by only a few coins in each category. Would also have to be mindful to not split the coin when its not necessary in smaller groups or we'll risk piling up more coins then intended. 5p in a group of two is gonna be 25gold each which would be bad.

It might just be easier to down split and call it a day rather then write up a crazy formula for it. But that's your call. The big thing with the self splitting and group up splitting will still be gone and was the bigger concern I think.


Edit Add: And as for what Sidious wrote i remember ML'ing too... But more or less because we couldn't carry the heavy loot and preventing all that smaller coin from weighting us down. Other wise we would have had to ML everything in order to keep things fare and that wasn't the case at all.

[Lanvaren]

The reason you'd have so much silver/copper was because the mobs would often just *have* 40 copper instead of 4 silver.

The Hole was notorious for dropping multiple PP per golem... in copper coins.

Newbies could make a killing *swimming in there with a few plat and heading back to the bank with 10x that.

[Rogean]

I asked a friend who played back in the day whos very knowledgeable about game mechanics and he said that the system used for autosplit was very complex, based on multiple variables such as aggro, distance from mob, and randomness.. while it did reward the looter with more in the long run, it was far from evenly split.

Based on that I'm still leaning towards a downconvert system that would be fair for all group members.

[oldhead]

either way.. auto split is worthless and best with just alternating loots or a ML for guild/friend parties.

[oldhead]

a "down convert" even split wouldnt be classic... but would make auto split useful.

I always thought classic auto split was if there was enough coin to split from each type it would.
5 party group spiting 6 coins meant the looter got two and everyone else got 1.
If there wasnt enough for the group the looter got everything.

[Rogean]

http://pastebin.com/rPXbFXTF

[Rogean]

I just had someone confirm on live that it does no conversions whatsoever for using the actual /split command, and all remainders go to the splitter; this matches up exactly with the code pasted above.

Autosplit on the other hand is a different matter, as I mentioned before it uses some complex system on live.

[valthalion]

I played back in the very early days and the split seemed to be pretty simple. Any coins left over after dividing evenly went to the looter. This was why it was common in groups to have a "master" looter who would get all the coins and then do a split when someone had to leave or the group was going to disband.

Please do not downconvert. While useful for "fairness", its not the way it used to be and would also tend to increase the weight of the coins looted. More weight is not a good thing.

[Live4Redline]

a "down convert" even split wouldnt be classic... but would make auto split useful.

I always thought classic auto split was if there was enough coin to split from each type it would.
5 party group spiting 6 coins meant the looter got two and everyone else got 1.
If there wasnt enough for the group the looter got everything.

Gonna have to disagree with this because we used autosplit in classic on Bertox. And only turned it off if you where the ML'er. Which you only ML'ed in certain groups and camps where a vendor was close by. Otherwise it was a rotating loot system that didn't involve one guy getting 5p and the rest of the group getting 0.

[kinztz]

Can't say I personally remember exactly how it worked, however I do remember primarily using ML in groups and splitting afterward because it was shit. That or there was a monk in the group that would get a barrage of shitty copper that nobody ever wanted.

It would make sense to have a logical conversion rate for fairness sake, but overall if it stays as is and people don't like it you can always ML and split after. Can't commit on the THATS NOT CLASSIC portion of it due to fuzzy memory :[

[tanknspank]

The reason ML was used so much is exactly the unfairness. Classic did not downconvert and simply split coins it could evenly giving any remainder to the looter then moved to the next tier of coin. So 5g 27s in a group of 6 was given 4s each, then 5g 7s to the looter.

Please keep it classic.

[tanknspank]

However no 0p 0g 0s 0c messages were issued so a lot of times you were not aware someone looted coin if the mob had less than 5 of each.

[khazim]

If you could design a system where it would only downconvert the oddball leftovers. If you're on a three man group and the initial loot was 5p, 0g, 0s, 0c would only split as follows: The first three platinum should split evenly with 1pp each. The 2p left over get down converted to 20 gold, which also split with 6 gold each, with the leftover 2 gold going to the looter. That way, the ML is getting a slight advantage but not getting overwhelmed in gobs of coin.

[Braveguard]

Seems like it is more broken now than it was before the change. /autosplit off

[Rogean]

Seems like it is more broken now than it was before the change. /autosplit off

How so?

[Karnek]

In the original game it didn't downconvert anything. I played a warrior most of live and the function hasn't changed. Essentially if a mob has 5pp 6gp 0sp 0cp the group would receive 1gp each while the looter would receive 5pp 1gp. It isn't so much an issue when mobs drop 6p+ in Sebilis and beyond. I imagine most people just turn auto split off and just try and be fair to their group. Making the system downconvert would only harm casters with low strength who would have to just destroy the silver and copper.

[Lagaidh]

I remember a downconvert system in live. I remember monks not liking it.

[Aldon]

I remember a downconvert system in live. I remember monks not liking it.

There was no downconvert system in any live era in which I played. Monks would rather not be loaded down with small change. It's as simple as that.

[tinidas]

If wishes were horses... I'd do what Khazim said:

If you could design a system where it would only downconvert the oddball leftovers. If you're on a three man group and the initial loot was 5p, 0g, 0s, 0c would only split as follows: The first three platinum should split evenly with 1pp each. The 2p left over get down converted to 20 gold, which also split with 6 gold each, with the leftover 2 gold going to the looter. That way, the ML is getting a slight advantage but not getting overwhelmed in gobs of coin.

Live was a long time ago for me, but recall autosplit getting close enough to even that it was the standard and ML the exception.

[skorge]

In the original game it didn't downconvert anything. I played a warrior most of live and the function hasn't changed. Essentially if a mob has 5pp 6gp 0sp 0cp the group would receive 1gp each while the looter would receive 5pp 1gp. It isn't so much an issue when mobs drop 6p+ in Sebilis and beyond. I imagine most people just turn auto split off and just try and be fair to their group. Making the system downconvert would only harm casters with low strength who would have to just destroy the silver and copper.

this...

[Dominick]

Theres a fork in the road, do we create a P1999 system or not?

If not we spend a lot of time looking for evidence on how the live system worked, and I think that doesn't really makes sense in the labor to results ratio. I would rather the devs go insane working on other issues.

I would suggest we randomize the coin, for a six person group, with a 5pp drop 5 get a coin and one random person gets nothing. Just follow that scheme down the line for GP, SP and CP. Its much simpler than trying to recreate a formula we don't really understand. One person not getting loot was a part of the Live system, and I think we can retain that after a fashion.

I don't like the down convert option, thats too far from the live version.

It may eliminate the looter coin advantage, but I still don't think that aspect adds a meaningful wrinkle to the P1999 immersion.

[Braveguard]

How so?

I posted a bit about it on another thread. From my perspective, it's not so much worth worrying about. I'll just turn split off. My regular partner and I share our plat pool anyway so it doesn't matter to me that we get an even split. I would have to do more extensive testing on it than I'm willing to put into such a non-issue but it seems like maybe some of the coin is being dropped in the split. Then again, maybe we just had really horrible luck.

[Braveguard]

FYI, I don't remember any downconvert in live. We always used a master looter who would do a /split at the end of a group.

[Uthgaard]

I just tested this with even and odd coin amounts in varying group sizes. It works correctly. The coins are split evenly, until there aren't enough coins to be split, at which point the looter gets the remainder, which is how it functioned on live.

I actually posted this before I saw this thread. It's working correctly as it is right now. There was never any downconverting. It was advantageous to be the one to loot every corpse even if you had split on.

In zones where mobs would frequently drop ~5 plat, you could quickly make a decent amount of cash off a group of 6 who weren't aware of the split mechanics.

[Darklake]

As a Druid on live from 2000 I was often ML (ports/SoW/strength buffs made being encumbered a lot easier) and would just have to write down at the beginning of a session what coins I started with so I could split at the end. Autosplit never downchanged, the looter always had the remainder after dividing each type of coin amongst the group.

[Noselacri]

Autosplit didn't split money evenly. I don't know the exact formula, but generally the looter got the lion's share and everyone else got small change. If you didn't loot, you'd come out with like 3p 75g 400s 800c. Since most common mobs drop like 1p 5g 7s, everyone else got practically nothing.

[Nocte]

The existing system works ideally with a master looter who would split coins at the end of the group (or before one member left). Works even better when all the coin is split after all the bronze/FS/gems/etc are sold.

[Live4Redline]

Theres no way... with the system thats in place now you would be required to ML in every group situation. And on my server which was the same as your server we didn't ML EVERY SINGLE group we made. You would ML the ones with in reach of a vendor. Allot of it had to do with weight and carrying capacity early on with the lack of knowledge of where gear was. There would be no point at all to have /auto split turned on with the current system in place and i distinctly remember being required to LEAVE it on unless in a ML'er situation.

I think the autosplit system was more complicated then what we have in place now and didn't just end with one guy getting all the money and everyone else getting nothing even with autosplit ON.

I'd also like to bring up the point of what coin the mobs are dropping. Were the loot tables copied from Live or re-generated for the emu servers? Because if they where re-generated then its gonna be hard to copy the classic feel if they had the coins pre-split up to handle this so that the autosplit system worked more effectually. And if thats the case then your still better off doing some sort of down split system because just giving all the coins to one person isn't classic ether.


If you guys start putting this to some serious testing you'll notice that 95% of your group looting your rewarded with nothing or only one silver and some times one or two copper every split. And this was done on mobs with over five plat on them. THIS IS NOT CLASSIC. For what ever reason, due it the autosplit system or the mob loot tables its not right. It was manageable that one guy may get one plat or two gold more then the rest of the group... but not five or six plat more then the rest of the group.

[Noselacri]

I think the autosplit system was more complicated then what we have in place now and didn't just end with one guy getting all the money and everyone else getting nothing even with autosplit ON.

Well, that's how it was. Unless the mob dropped dozens of plat, the looter got most of it and the rest got insignificant change. Each denomination of coins had to be divisible by the number of players in the group or the guy who looted the corpse got all of it, and since most ordinary mobs don't drop 6+ plat, you'd end up with nothing but small change unless you occasionally looted as well. Mostly people just took turns, otherwise they wouldn't get anything. Autosplit was completely useless for distributing coin loot evenly.

[Karnek]

Some of you are misremembering how things work or you just didn't loot very much. Autosplit and the /split command functioned exactly the same way. If you had a group of 6 people and did a /split 5 0 0 0 it would give you (the person doing the split) 5 plat and nobody else would get anything. Auto split functioned exactly the same way, except it performed the command for however much cash was on the body. Since mobs don't drop loot in multiples of 6 that often, you don't get 1p every kill. I don't understand why some of you think they have some crazy formula since it is a basic division by the number of people in your group.

[guineapig]

I'm going to go ahead and say I liked the system we had in place for the past year.
This seems like a needless complication of things and adds zero fun to the game.

[Acillatem]

Ya on Live, everyone had a main looter and if anyone had to leave the group - the ML would do a /split, track what his current pp/gp count is and then the next split would only be for the new amount.

At the end of the group - we would go to a vendor - sell all the items, then do a
/split a b c d.

[Live4Redline]

You gotta log off your Poop-Sockers and give the mechanic a try! Because I have and it doesn't feel right. I noticed it the first night Rogean put it up on test and have been playing with it none stop since he patched it.

This mechanic doesn't effect me or you, but is gonna really hit the lowbies and the new comers very hard. This is a really important game mechanic at the start of the game and just saying "Ya thats how it was" with out ever giving it a try is not very fare to everyone else. Not only that but your pushing a pre-WoW ML system on a bunch of people who've done nothing but play WoW for the past few years. This potentially is a really big deal and could run allot of people off. Not that the server could handle any more people at the moment anyways but that's not the point.

Honestly it doesn't feel right to me and I played on release, be it from the mob drops or the autosplit system its self. I remember getting coins off of mobs most of the time and not just getting nothing almost every time or one silver each off of lvl 40-50 mobs. I remember being weighted down from copper and silver and with the current system your not. Your getting one or two silver/copper a kill. You have a very small chance at all to get any coins from a mob in the current system with autosplit on. The looter gets is all and this is gonna help the monks out severally. Its not right.

Your playing with a very important game mechanic that only punishes new comers to the server. The up split and self split *bugs* have been fixed and have already put a huge change on the group game play and this push for the inferior perma ML system is just rough. Specially if we're not 100% on how to recreate it.

[Tol]

We originally couldn't see who looted what items off a corpse either. Some things are just stupid designs even if they were "classic"

[Shiftin]

I'm going to go ahead and say I liked the system we had in place for the past year.
This seems like a needless complication of things and adds zero fun to the game.

100% this. If you don't have the detailed algorithm that was used for the actual splitting system that they used, let's not try this bastardized system or even worse, downconverting coin to make people even freaking heavier with no way to upconvert again via split.

Roll it back to last week imo.

[Rogean]

Not that the server could handle any more people at the moment anyways

Wait what?

[Live4Redline]

We originally couldn't see who looted what items off a corpse either. Some things are just stupid designs even if they were "classic"

^ Agreed

Just like that group bug we've been dealing with for such a long time. That was also a feature on live for a long time too. *But don't take that the wrong way because I'm happy to see that group bug fixed like many others.*

February 17, 2000 7:00 am


- A teleporter has been placed within the Plane of Hate in order to
give non-casters a way out of the zone besides death, potion, or group
teleport.

*Loot Messages*

Messages indicating what has been looted from a corpse will now be
broadcast to everyone within the looters group. This change was made
due to public request and to encourage trust within the group. We may,
in the future, employ filters to allow people to choose whether or not
they wish to receive loot messages.

^ Live4Redline: Loot messages where added before Kunark, but so was Hate porters. Hint Hint


February 21, 2001 3:00 am

--- Players should now be properly removed from the group regardless of
how they exit the game.

^ Live4Redline: Best I could find.. but the change I'm referring too may have been a ninja update far earlier then 2001. But just an example.



Wait what?

^ Referring to finding camps, groups and raid content. The server has been slightly over populated for a little bit now. And not only for raid content but for lower end stuff also. You can find your self waiting hours for a slot in most low end groups or waiting for spawns in the Karana's, or having three raid guilds in a plane waiting for re-pops of non-named mobs at the same time. Throw in people PL'ing alts and most zones are becoming over camped here in the late. When you find your self fighting for re-spawns in the Karana's there's an issue. But that's another subject for another thread. Most are just waiting for Kunark so we got more room to breath.

[yaeger]

I'm going to go ahead and say I liked the system we had in place for the past year.
This seems like a needless complication of things and adds zero fun to the game.

Agreed. Why'd we fix something that wasn't broke?

[Noselacri]

Part of the misconception might stem from the fact that you currently see "your split was 0 0 0 0" at any time a coinless corpse is looted by you or a group member with autosplit on. Normally it should say nothing, and this is being fixed. It'll look like you're getting a whole lot of nothing because people click corpses all the time and leave the rusty weapons and shit in them so others click them as well.

[Savard18]

We originally couldn't see who looted what items off a corpse either. Some things are just stupid designs even if they were "classic"

This.

[Live4Redline]

Agreed. Why'd we fix something that wasn't broke?

Well the fix was to the group system and the grouping up with your self to /split your heavy copper into gold and plat. He fixed the group system and rather well I might add and adjusted the /split system to correct for the up splitting that wasn't a feature in classic but now we got a down splitting problem. Fixed one evil for another unfortunately.


Part of the misconception might stem from the fact that you currently see "your split was 0 0 0 0" at any time a coinless corpse is looted by you or a group member with autosplit on. Normally it should say nothing, and this is being fixed. It'll look like you're getting a whole lot of nothing because people click corpses all the time and leave the rusty weapons and shit in them so others click them as well.

^ What!?

I'm not talking about a misconception. You know the corpses drop money. Your group loots six of them with autosplit ON and you get two silver and three copper in total from all six while the primary looter got twenty to thirty plat. There's no misconception in that... its just not right.

[Noselacri]

Well, it depends entirely on where you are. If the mobs are dropping coins like 3g 5s 7c, a few silver and copper is what you'll end up with after a handful of mobs if you don't loot any yourself. This is how it worked. I very distinctly remember this, and I remember chuckling to myself at casters who would just let others do the looting and depend on autosplit for their income, because they'd walk away with a few plat and I'd have made fifty in the same amount of time. People either took turns looting so that it was distributed somewhat evenly, or they assigned a main looter.

It's really quite simple. Look at the amount of money a mob drops. If it's in Crushbone, it's gonna be like 1g 5s 9c; if it's in LGuk, it'll be more like 2p 7g 9s 9c. In either case, anyone but the looter gets something like 1s 1c. If any of the denominations of coins are less than the number of people in the group, the guy who loots gets all of it. Since mobs in dungeons tend to not drop 6+ plat or even gold, non-looters don't get anything. If there's a full group and a mob drops 6p6g6s6c, everyone gets 1p1g1s1c. If it drops 4p5g6s9c, everyone but the looter gets 1s1c. This is working as intended, even if it is a bit silly. Lots of things were silly in classic. What are you arguing for?

[Live4Redline]

Because with what your suggesting... at the end of the night a monk is gonna have 20 some silver and 30 some copper if he doesn't loot anything or destroy anything... and that wasn't how it was in classic. Monks had to give the money away or would ask you to turn autosplit off. You got more from autosplit then you do from the current system. Like i keep saying, it doesn't feel right.

And its too big of a mechanic to just wing it... specially this late in the game.


And talking about silly things in classic... I'd have the same concerns if we went back to a Disarm dropping your weapon on the group, or when you gave someone /consent it let that person loot your corpse and not just drag it too you. These are all things that were changed for a reason and don't take away from the classic feel of the server.

[Noselacri]

No, at the end of the night you'd have like 100g 500s 1200c. That's exactly how it was. If it doesn't feel right, it's because it was a poorly implemented mechanic, but it's how things worked. If we had to go by what some people feel is right rather than what other people clearly remember being factual, this server would be a sorry parody of classic EQ.

The split mechanic cannot break coins down into smaller denominations. It can't turn a plat into ten gold and split that among the group. It never could. And, since autosplit prioritizes the looter when distributing coins that can't be split evenly with the group, it should be fairly simple logic to deduce that they get what can't be split.

You're welcome to suggest how else the system would assign, say, 1p 3g 6s, a fairly typical amount to find on a mob. According to what "feels right" to you, how much would you get out of that amount if someone else looted the corpse?

[Live4Redline]

^ And see this is another one of them cases where I don't think you have TESTED the mechanic on the server yet. Because your not getting 100g 500s 1200c at the end of the night... your getting nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, 1 silver, nothing, nothing 2 copper, nothing... and so on. At the end of the night you may be lucky to have 100-200 coins in total on you.

I remember the looter getting more... but not all of it. And the problem right now is that the odds of you getting anything are so low that you end the night with nothing. Which is why I questioned the mobs loot table. And if the problem is the loot tables its still gonna be easier to just keep a down split system because it will simulate classic closer then what is currently in effect.

[Noselacri]

I don't know what you consider a night, but I am seeing the expected amount of coins from splits. If you have an issue with the amount of money actually dropped by mobs, that's another discussion and should be addressed in futher detail regarding the zone and type of mob. The split mechanic appears to work.

[yaeger]

It's already hard enough convincing people to group. Now we'll have 1 greedy asshole stealing all the coin even with auto-loot on and 5 pissed-off group members.

For most groups it'll be a click fest whenever a mob dies just so they'll be able to afford their next level of spells. All clicking.. no medding.

We need more incentives to group, not less.

[Kender]

Based on that I'm still leaning towards a downconvert system that would be fair for all group members.

that would cripple monks hehe

[Live4Redline]

I don't know what you consider a night, but I am seeing the expected amount of coins from splits. If you have an issue with the amount of money actually dropped by mobs, that's another discussion and should be addressed in futher detail regarding the zone and type of mob. The split mechanic appears to work.

The totall amount of money on the mob is not the issue... its how many coins where on them in classic live compared to here. And that's not a issue that can be easily fixed with out adjusting 100k loot tables... but the way them coins are split is adjustable.

[Uthgaard]

Way to take this completely off topic guys. This is a lot of doomsaying over some extremely slanted worst case scenarios of worst case scenarios. Much like the name policy, it's a huge uproar over something that didn't really change all that much.

It's currently working exactly like it has on live for the past 11 years. You don't see anyone throwing fits alleging that any of these end-of-the-world hypotheticals even took place, much less caused them utter distress. Molehill != Mountain

[Live4Redline]

Well it is a big issue just not for people already in there end game. And although the the principle sounds like its correct the end result is not like classic at all. Whether it be the auto split or the loot tables.

That's the only reason I'm pushing it as hard as I am.

[Uthgaard]

From reading your posts, I think you're misunderstanding what's taking place. No coins are getting lost in the split, the zeroes you're seeing are a display error. Here are my logs from my tests this morning.

[Mon Oct 04 10:25:37 2010] Set 0 Platinum, 0 Gold, 0 Silver, and 10 Copper as coinsplittest000's money.
[Mon Oct 04 10:25:42 2010] Set 0 Platinum, 0 Gold, 0 Silver, and 20 Copper as coinsplittest001's money.
[Mon Oct 04 10:25:45 2010] Set 0 Platinum, 0 Gold, 0 Silver, and 25 Copper as coinsplittest002's money.
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:11 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 0 gold, 0 silver, 10 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:11 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 0 gold, 0 silver, 10 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:20 2010] You have slain coinsplittest!
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:22 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 0 gold, 0 silver, 13 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:22 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 0 gold, 0 silver, 12 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:28 2010] You have slain coinsplittest!
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:29 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 0 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:26:29 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 0 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:27:11 2010] Set 0 Platinum, 3 Gold, 3 Silver, and 3 Copper as coinsplittest004's money.
[Mon Oct 04 10:27:22 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 2 gold, 2 silver, 2 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:27:22 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:28:02 2010] Set 0 Platinum, 5 Gold, 1 Silver, and 1 Copper as coinsplittest000's money.
[Mon Oct 04 10:28:03 2010] You have slain coinsplittest!
[Mon Oct 04 10:28:04 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 3 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:28:04 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 2 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:08 2010] Thirdwheel has joined the group.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:28 2010] Set 0 Platinum, 5 Gold, 1 Silver, and 1 Copper as coinsplittest001's money.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:33 2010] You have slain coinsplittest!
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:35 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 3 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:35 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 1 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:35 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 1 gold, 0 silver, 0 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:50 2010] Set 0 Platinum, 30 Gold, 20 Silver, and 10 Copper as coinsplittest004's money.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:54 2010] You have slain coinsplittest!
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:56 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 10 gold, 8 silver, 4 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:56 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 10 gold, 6 silver, 3 copper as your split.
[Mon Oct 04 10:31:56 2010] You receive 0 platinum, 10 gold, 6 silver, 3 copper as your split.

Looter
Group member 1
Group member 2

[oldhead]

I actually posted this before I saw this thread. It's working correctly as it is right now. There was never any downconverting. It was advantageous to be the one to loot every corpse even if you had split on.

In zones where mobs would frequently drop ~5 plat, you could quickly make a decent amount of cash off a group of 6 who weren't aware of the split mechanics.


You little ninja looten bastage!

[Karnek]

I still think it's funny people are arguing about these mechanics. I am not sure how they expect the game to split 5pp between 6 people when it never down converted coins. This is exactly how the game worked before minus the display bug of seeing the 0s show up for coin types that you received none of, and as Uthgaard has said, they are aware of it. Some people are simply misremembering how things worked or to them for whatever reason it doesn't 'feel' right. They took away target group buff in the last patch, if you want to get worked up about something it won't be back till late Velious.

[Live4Redline]

^ And i think its funny that people are picking and choosing what there reading.



<<<< Please Read >>>>

This Mechanic has two aspects: "The system in which the coins are split" and the "Amount of coins listed on the loot table".

From the beginning I've agreed with the fact that the looter got more coins then the group but that the system didn't feel right and the end result was not correct. I've spent most the morning traveling the world here checking loot tables and the coin drops and i can clearly say the issue is the loot tables.

Mobs just don't drop more then 9 of a coin like they did in live classic. Everything has been rounded up on the loot table and now we're trying to break that down again and its not working correctly. Varrent/SOE knew how the autosplit system worked and the mobs coin drops were built to accommodate this, here on emu they where not. Hill Giants drop nothing but plat and on live they dropped 50-70 gold a pop. The totals ended up being the same but the coins where already broke down on the loot tables.

People keep saying its working correctly and its working correctly and your right... the math is working correctly but the end result is NOT. And its not classic. The mathematical odds that your getting ANY coin drop at all from the autosplit system whether the mob is in the 1p range or the 5p range is so low that you end up getting almost nothing at the end of the night. The most your gonna get from your autosplit in most situations... is 0p,0g,1s,1c or you get the 0p,1g,1s,0c or hell if your killing high drop mobs maybe you'll get lucky with a 1p,1g,0s,1c. (All this is based on six man groups where its most detrimental)

The mobs DON"T drop enough coins to be breaking them down the way we are.

And that leaves two options... Fix the loot tables or the autosplit system. Which ones easier?





.

[Teeroyoyort]

Great job on the loot system and the whole group revamp. I think it's wonderful. The system is great.

The problem is with mobs don't start out with 15ish gold pieces. Instead they start out with less than 10. Which means a full group of 6 one person gets loot, and everyone else gets diddly. You guys remember killing hill giants and getting like 10pp and 150 gold pieces? that's an extreme example, but that's what the mobs need, is more gold pieces! aside from hill giants and raid mobs, i believe most mobs gold count went up to 15ish, which would solve ur hating on the loot system. because the main looter will still get more than everyone else, however the group will actually see some coins too! I believe this is the missing element.

[mjavor]

If this was real and 6 people killed a mob which dropped coin, there is no way we would agree to the way the splitting is working now. We would split it as evenly as possible. I don't know why that is so hard to do.

[Rogean]

I have spoke with nilbog about the system, and in interest of common fairness for all group members, and the lack of knowing just exactly the system worked in classic because we know it didn't result in the looter having THAT much of an advantage, we will be changing it to downconvert leftover coins downward until left with only copper remains. This means that the most the looter could ever get over the rest of the group is 5 copper.

[Engraverwilliam]

@ Rogean - Best thing I've read in the whole thread :-)

[Uthgaard]

and the lack of knowing just exactly the system worked in classic because we know it didn't result in the looter having THAT much of an advantage

I wasn't just making it up:

A: This question is the source of much angst, and isn't as simple as it might seem on the surface. Autosplit is something each person turns on or off (using the /autosplit command, or /au for short). If the person looting a corpse has it turned on, any cash found is split evenly among all players in the group (even those who have it turned off). (This doesn't apply when a player loots their own body, of course.) Sounds fair, doesn't it?

The catch is, it's implemented in a logical way in a roleplaying environment, which is to say it splits the COINS you get, instead of splitting the CASH VALUE of those coins. It doesn't make change. And it does this separately for each type of coin. If, as is often the case, the coins can't be divided evenly, the game gives any left over coins to the looter. So suppose a mob drops 5pp. In a two-player group, the looter gets 3pp and the other player gets 2pp. In a three-player group, the looter still gets 3pp and the others each get 1pp. In a six-player group, none of the 5pp can be divided evenly, so the looter keeps all of it! Even when there are some coins given out to the rest of the group by this method, the looter is more often than not getting twice or three times as many coins as the rest.

The innocent (such as yourself) will loot freely, thinking they are being fair. They will also happily allow others to loot, thinking that they are getting a fair share. The unscrupulous will arrange to do most of the looting while allowing the uninitiated (such as yourself) to think they are getting a fair share. And of course, if someone in your group is looting with autosplit on, you can't know if they're innocent or unscrupulous, which can lead to some bad feelings. What's worse, if you try to work around the problem by looting with autosplit OFF, planning to split the money later (preferably after selling off any vendor trash items as well), the innocent may get upset because they think you're planning to abscond with all the money (which has, alas, been known to happen also).

The best compromise seems to be to have the group choose one person to be "main looter" (ML), and that person is responsible for selling the items and splitting all the cash when the group is ready to break up. This still gets awkward if some people leave the group early and/or other people join partway through, but it's still a lot more fair. Another approach that is sometimes used is "open looting" (also called FFA, or free-for-all), where everybody is free to loot (usually with autosplit ON), which works well if the group is killing lots of mobs so everyone gets lots of opportunities to loot some. (http://www.icynic.com/~don/EQ/age.faq.htm#Q3.24)

[Revol]

In practice this means depending on where you are in the group you may only get 0 0 0 some CP as loot. If you have a mob drop 5pp in a 6 person group why not have it split to 8gp 33sp 33cp and the remainder to the looter? Emulating something that was screwed up to begin with is just plain dumb imo.

[beeshma_nameless]

I would think "converting" the dropped coins (pp to gp, gp to sp etc) for the purpose of split is kinda strange ;-p

Why not just have it as it was, and in group do FFA with /split on? worked on live well in most PUGs - though the looter did get a bit of an advantage when the coins didnt split evenly.

P.S: Does rogue pickpocket take from the mob's loot coin value, thereby reducing the dropped coins when mob dies? I remember huge heartburn threads on the old whineplay forums on this in 99...

[Revol]

I would think "converting" the dropped coins (pp to gp, gp to sp etc) for the purpose of split is kinda strange ;-p

Why not just have it as it was, and in group do FFA with /split on? worked on live well in most PUGs - though the looter did get a bit of an advantage when the coins didnt split evenly.

P.S: Does rogue pickpocket take from the mob's loot coin value, thereby reducing the dropped coins when mob dies? I remember huge heartburn threads on the old whineplay forums on this in 99...

In practice what happens is the casters are medding because they are a little LOM, then puller is out pulling, the rogue is trying to BW up and the bard or ranger is looting everything.

That's a generalization, but that's often what is happening with this new system. Not only do the greedheads get the items, but they also get a bulk of the cash. If the split was more even it would be less of an issue, instead of one more straw on the camels back.

[Uthgaard]

That's a generalization, but that's often what is happening with this new system.

It's not a new system. It's been around since the dawn of everquest. But suddenly your attention has been called to it, and thus the sand went places sand ought never be.

[Revol]

It's not a new system. It's been around since the dawn of everquest. But suddenly your attention has been called to it, and thus the sand went places sand ought never be.

Perhaps so ;)

Maybe that's something that should be corrected, rather than "kept classic". However, I don't remember there being so many "You receive 0pp 0gp 0sp 1cp from the split" messages.

[Noselacri]

If you implement a system that downconverts coins for the sake of fairness, you'll pretty much have to reinstate the self-split upconvert. People will end up with so many coins on them that anything else will be unplayable. You will practically never see platinum or even gold coins in groups anymore, because mobs very rarely drop enough of these to be split fully among a whole group, and the result will be that a gaming session's cash loot ends up as 30g, 2000s, 5000c. Any cash drop of 1-5g in a full group would become worthless as noone can group for any length of time without having to destroy the staggering amount of silver that would convert into. You'd have to either destroy all the cash you get or accept being perma-rooted in groups as logic dictates that the current (seemingly appropriate) amounts of cash dropped by mobs would, in an even-handed downconvert system, almost always end up as ten times as much silver and copper. The original autosplit system at least ensured that the currency dropped by mobs stayed intact until exchanged in a bank. In places like SolA, Mistmoore etc., the typical mob cash drop will be something like 5g 8s 6c. All of this would turn into silver and copper, and people will have to destroy it in order to play. If anyone is concerned about low-levels being able to make money, or with promoting playability through a non-classic invention, please first consider this.

The mob would have to drop 6 or more gold for anyone to get more than silver, which is far from the norm even in level 30s dungeons, and you simply won't see platinum until you go to sell the loot and make change in the bank. Since this would absolutely require the old solo-split trick, you would have to implement two completely non-classic systems purely for the sake of convenience where it was never a problem in the original game. I fail to see the benefit in that. I was led to believe that any non-classic feature found here was due to not being able to change it, or it having absolutely no influence on gameplay. This would be neither, and it would "fix" a "problem" that we lived with just fine. People have just become complacent.

The perceived problem is completely circumvented by occasionally looting yourself rather than depending entirely on others to do it for you. If you can't take three seconds every few minutes to click on a handful of corpses, you're too lazy to get loot. This is how it always worked. It was never a problem. No invented system needs to be implemented to cater to those who have forgotten how the game was played.

[GypsyGirl]

I love uthgaard. He's my favorite.

Anyway, after reading his giant post it jogged my memory. I 100% remember having main looters (generally the warrior) loot for the entire duration of the group then use /split to evenly distribute the total coinage after the group finished. I don't know if that helps with anything, as didn't read much beyond that, but I definitely remember that being the case in numerous groups.

[Randiesel]

I don't have much input here, as I don't recall EVER playing with an ML, outside of one or two HG groups, but the way I see it, we really have two reasonable options on p99.

a) Implement a downconvert system and re-enable the /split upconvert

b) Rewrite the cash loot tables.

Nothing else makes sense. The ML always got more, but not substantially, and the silly amounts of copper and silver are going to be ridiculous.

Not to mention they will further separate the haves and have-nots. Us broke lowbie players that are new to the server will be destroying almost ALL our cash loot, whereas the higher level players that are looting mainly plat will stay farther ahead.

[beeshma_nameless]

In practice what happens is the casters are medding because they are a little LOM, then puller is out pulling, the rogue is trying to BW up and the bard or ranger is looting everything.

That's a generalization, but that's often what is happening with this new system. Not only do the greedheads get the items, but they also get a bulk of the cash. If the split was more even it would be less of an issue, instead of one more straw on the camels back.


That is true about casters not getting their quota of looting in an FFA situation - where with the classic split it would still even out. What we did in many PUG was give a few gems or so to the casters who were buried in their book most of the time.

I played a human monk and most PUGS would give me PP for my gold/siver/plat often during the grouping so I dont go over the weight limit and hit the AC penalty (was it 14? dont remember).

No means a perfect division of loot, but for me, that was one of the quirks of EQ - grouping was a lot more than just strength in numbers, It identified the players, reputations ingame (for what it is/was worth) - It was very soon before a loot hungry person was known (this was way before the "clerics get all gem drops as they need to buy reagents for symbols" uproars )

My 2cp.

[Lagaidh]

There was no downconvert system in any live era in which I played. Monks would rather not be loaded down with small change. It's as simple as that.

/nod My memory over things like this isn't sharp. Never spent a lot of time thinking about it.

[Uthgaard]

If there was an upconvert system, you wouldn't be able to do half the quests in the game.

Some of you are acting as if you're at the mercy of the split system, and all common sense and personal accountability have been stripped from you as a result; taking with it, your ability to receive a fair portion of the split.

[Revol]

If there was an upconvert system, you wouldn't be able to do half the quests in the game.

Some of you are acting as if you're at the mercy of the split system, and all common sense and personal accountability have been stripped from you as a result; taking with it, your ability to receive a fair portion of the split.

Erm.. IS THIS SMED?

I don't know what happened lately, but I went from routinely getting GP in groups to getting mostly 0 0 0 0. I would usually get SOMETHING in a group, even when it's just SP and CP. The split message changed so something must have been done.

When I do loot I get like 4gp and smaller coin. Something has to be screwed up somewhere.

How would having an upconvert for cash only effect quests?

[guineapig]

I have spoke with nilbog about the system, and in interest of common fairness for all group members, and the lack of knowing just exactly the system worked in classic because we know it didn't result in the looter having THAT much of an advantage, we will be changing it to downconvert leftover coins downward until left with only copper remains. This means that the most the looter could ever get over the rest of the group is 5 copper.

Thank you sir!

[Droop]

I remember the looter getting the lion's share, BUT not by that huge of a margin. You'd still always get close to the same amount when you weren't looting, but the looter did have a little bit better advantage.

Now it seems 90% of the time no one gets anything unless they are ML'r. Have mechanics changed on live at all or are they the same as classic?

[Shiftin]

If you implement a system that downconverts coins for the sake of fairness, you'll pretty much have to reinstate the self-split upconvert. People will end up with so many coins on them that anything else will be unplayable. You will practically never see platinum or even gold coins in groups anymore, because mobs very rarely drop enough of these to be split fully among a whole group, and the result will be that a gaming session's cash loot ends up as 30g, 2000s, 5000c. Any cash drop of 1-5g in a full group would become worthless as noone can group for any length of time without having to destroy the staggering amount of silver that would convert into. You'd have to either destroy all the cash you get or accept being perma-rooted in groups as logic dictates that the current (seemingly appropriate) amounts of cash dropped by mobs would, in an even-handed downconvert system, almost always end up as ten times as much silver and copper. The original autosplit system at least ensured that the currency dropped by mobs stayed intact until exchanged in a bank. In places like SolA, Mistmoore etc., the typical mob cash drop will be something like 5g 8s 6c. All of this would turn into silver and copper, and people will have to destroy it in order to play. If anyone is concerned about low-levels being able to make money, or with promoting playability through a non-classic invention, please first consider this.

The mob would have to drop 6 or more gold for anyone to get more than silver, which is far from the norm even in level 30s dungeons, and you simply won't see platinum until you go to sell the loot and make change in the bank. Since this would absolutely require the old solo-split trick, you would have to implement two completely non-classic systems purely for the sake of convenience where it was never a problem in the original game. I fail to see the benefit in that. I was led to believe that any non-classic feature found here was due to not being able to change it, or it having absolutely no influence on gameplay. This would be neither, and it would "fix" a "problem" that we lived with just fine. People have just become complacent.

The perceived problem is completely circumvented by occasionally looting yourself rather than depending entirely on others to do it for you. If you can't take three seconds every few minutes to click on a handful of corpses, you're too lazy to get loot. This is how it always worked. It was never a problem. No invented system needs to be implemented to cater to those who have forgotten how the game was played.


This is an incredibly important and correct post. If you downconvert, you will loot almost zero platinum off old world mobs, ever, in a full group. Below sol b and lguk, you will rarely loot gold. The rest of the coin adds up so quickly it has to be destroyed. You have to add back in the splitting upconvert function if you add in a downconverting function.

[Live4Redline]

I wasn't just making it up:

The problem is... the loot tables are still wrong.

You can't fix this and NOT fix the loot tables because it just doesn't work right. The mobs are carrying a "Rounded Up Cash Amount" and not a "Coin Count"... and your trying to divide a cash amount by its coins when all the coins have been up converted to a cash amount. It just doesn't work.

In a full group the most you can get from a split is 1g,1s,1c unless you get lucky and find a mob with over 6p and then you'll get 1p,1g,1s,1c. 12p you get 2p,1g,1s,1c. Your seeing allot of 1g or 1s, or 1c. Because the coins on the mobs are not correct.


If there was an upconvert system, you wouldn't be able to do half the quests in the game.

Some of you are acting as if you're at the mercy of the split system, and all common sense and personal accountability have been stripped from you as a result; taking with it, your ability to receive a fair portion of the split.

Ya a global up convert system in place would destroy everything which is why in live they ended up changing allot of things to except 3250g [OR] 325p. But thats a whole nothing subject and doesn't really have anything to do with this. There was already an up convert system in place for the autosplit before the group patch and it didn't hurt anything. And you can fix this problem with a down convert system JUST TO SPLIT the money evenly and thats it. It'll be like like it was before patch but with out the ability to /split money in the effect to turn copper into gold (<-- Up converting *Exploit).

And Uthgaard go check out a mid range group of six somewhere and watch the loot on different mobs. And you'll notice that your only getting 1s, nothing, 1c, nothing, nothing, 1s, nothing, 1c, nothing, 1g (OH SNAP), 1c, nothing. Its just not right mate. (And them nothings are NOT from people looting the corpse twice its because the mob didn't drop more then 6g or 6s or 6c.)

This is an incredibly important and correct post. If you downconvert, you will loot almost zero platinum off old world mobs, ever, in a full group. Below sol b and lguk, you will rarely loot gold. The rest of the coin adds up so quickly it has to be destroyed. You have to add back in the splitting upconvert function if you add in a downconverting function.

We were already using a down convert system before this patch. So it would all depend on how you did the down convert. If you try and still down convert the coins you may run into "Over Coining" but if you just down convert the cash value like it was done previously you wouldn't have any issues at all but you also wont have the looter getting more money then the rest of the group like it was in classic. I'm not sure how Rogean is planning to do it so that's just one of them wait and see things. But "Over Coining" is still a better system then what is currently in place. At least if you have the coins you can do something with them over the not getting any coins at all unless you /loot it.



Personally I think down splitting the looted cash amount and removing the "/split exploit" is the best route since we can't completely mimic a classic coin drop.

[Uthgaard]

There are a series of incorrect assumptions here.


The vast majority of the wealth that enters the game, comes from items on corpses, and not coin, by an incredibly large margin.
The only really valid point is that coin is getting rounded up. There are very few NPCs in the game that dropped substantial amounts of coin. It is very easy to cause that to happen, without it being rounded up.
People have been adapting to these conditions for the last 11 years. If you are broke because you can't get off your duff every once in a while or choose who you group with, it's due to more than the split system, and could be equated to natural selection.
It's substantially less work to manually set coin bounds for the few NPCs who dropped substantial coin, and more logical than implementing a series of band-aids on top of band-aids that are being suggested as a result of a nearly non-issue being blown out of proportion.


The more vocal concern is over the individual's ability to get their fair share in various worst case scenarios as a perpetual victim - referring to "the looter" as some sort of hypothetical automaton present in every group, eating everyone else's share of coin while the rest are rendered helpless, unable to loot a corpse themselves.

But there was a very valid point raised about the issue with downconverting, one that would impact all groups negatively. Those who have raised the issue with coin split have cited coin drops as the issue. This has been a pressing enough concern for some of you to write several pages. Identifying a problem is easy. I challenge you to expend similar effort identifying a solution. We all know about giants. List some others.

[Kenuw]

As I remember it for the example given of :

This means if you have a full 6 person group and the mob drops 5 plat, 13 gold, 3 silver, and 10 copper, everyone but the looter gets 0 plat, 2 gold, 0 silver, and 1 copper, and the looter gets 5 plat, 3 gold, 3 silver, and 5 copper.

Player 1-5 gets 1 plat, Player 6 gets none.
Player 1 gets 3 gold, players 2-6 get 2 gold.
Player 1 gets 3 silver, players 2-6 get 2 silver.
Player 1-4 gets 2 copper, Players 5 and 6 gets 1 copper

Where player 1 is the looter, the rule being that the individual coin levels were round robin'ed, until there was none of that coin type left, and it moved to the next coin.

[Live4Redline]

There are a series of incorrect assumptions here.


The vast majority of the wealth that enters the game, comes from items on corpses, and not coin, by an incredibly large margin.

The vast of END GAME wealth is based on items but at the start your living off of coins! And just because me and you don't have to worry about living off of coin drops doesn't mean we can screw the newbies still joining the server.



The only really valid point is that coin is getting rounded up. There are very few NPCs in the game that dropped substantial amounts of coin. It is very easy to cause that to happen, without it being rounded up.

Where not talking about huge amounts of coins on one mob. We're talking about small amounts of coins on thousands upon thousands of smaller mobs that we camp day after day in six man groups in the bottom of dungeons, where we're only getting 1s after 1s after 1s when we should be getting more.



People have been adapting to these conditions for the last 11 years. If you are broke because you can't get off your duff every once in a while or choose who you group with, it's due to more than the split system, and could be equated to natural selection.

These conditions where already very barbaric and we went through hell dealing with them in the first place and i just don't want the conditions of this system to be WORSE then in classic because they currently are. If you can make this system match classic I'm down for that... i just don't see it with out changing all the factors in place and that includes the loot tables.



It's substantially less work to manually set coin bounds for the few NPCs who dropped substantial coin, and more logical than implementing a series of band-aids on top of band-aids that are being suggested as a result of a nearly non-issue being blown out of proportion.

The problem is not one or two mobs, its every mob in the game. Group mobs don't drop a groups worth of coins... plain and simple.



The more vocal concern is over the individual's ability to get their fair share in various worst case scenarios as a perpetual victim - referring to "the looter" as some sort of hypothetical automaton present in every group, eating everyone else's share of coin while the rest are rendered helpless, unable to loot a corpse themselves.

But there was a very valid point raised about the issue with downconverting, one that would impact all groups negatively. Those who have raised the issue with coin split have cited coin drops as the issue. This has been a pressing enough concern for some of you to write several pages. Identifying a problem is easy. I challenge you to expend similar effort identifying a solution. We all know about giants. List some others.

I'd like to think I've spent a good bit of effort into this and considering it doesn't even really effect me I've probably spent far too much time on it.

The easiest and by far best solution is to divide the mobs total cash amount and reward each member with its fair share, down to the plat, gold, silver, and copper in the same form as it did before patch but with out the ability to up split. There are NO down or adverse factors to that solution other then it not being classic. But its as close to classic as "I" think we can get with out spending more effort into the system then it really deserves.

There are many mechanics on this server that just can't be made to mimic classic like they should. This is one of thous issues that could, but the results are not worth the time and effort it would take. Lets just get it as close as we can with out it being WORSE. If the loot tables are working off a cash value so should the autosplit system.

[Kassel]

Cant we just have autosplit down convert then bring back the group /split upconvert?