Pvp level limit discussion

[kildone]

It seems a no brainier why a server should limit the levels for Pvp. However I have been thinking about it. I was curious what others thoughts were.

I met a guy today who killed me. Which I am happy about by the way. The problem is that he resisted everything so as a caster I'm pretty much useless. I also had cr spells up to help someone get their corpse and the guy who killed me had plenty of pumice stones so escape was not an option.

So I don't mind dying but it would be nice if I could get some levels and be able to maybe one day get revenge. I know this guy will never level cause that's his game. At least one guy in my guild does the same.

However level restrictions prevent this. As well as protects my said guild member.

Then there is the oor druid he had helping him to port him around and sow heal. So I don't know his level but say he's 45. If I had friends who were level 60 they wouldnt be able to help with said druid.

Also I heard someone talking about how they planned to get a char to lvl 20, max skills and de level to 16 and terrorize gfay.

The more I learn in this server the more it seems that level limits don't seem to help and actually provide means to circumvent the rules and make it easier to do what some call grief. Hence making the level limits pointless if not harmful.

So please help enlighten me. Do you think the level limits do more harm than good and why.

[Sirken]

they do more good. because instead of getting griefed by a lvl 20 fungi twink in crushbone, youd be getting griefed by lvl 60s in VP gear in crushbone

[Casey VII]

It seems a no brainier.

[fred schnarf]

op is stupid

[kildone]

Those lvl 60 with VP gear just make a 20 fungi twink for crushbone. With level limit there is no chance for a group of folks with only level 60 to fight back.

I think a large enough group of non VP lvl 60 could beat the VP 60s. There are way more folks who would like to kill the people causing grief in CB. That's been my experience on the server anyways. This would be a rallying point for possible large scale lvl 60 Pvp battles in CB.

So the level limit serves only to protect the twinks who cause the grief correct?

[kildone]

op is stupid

I don't have much experience with Pvp in EQ, so if you equate a lack of education with stupidity, then you are correct.

I am just seeking enlightenment and a good discussion.

[snufzaimoverlord]

If level limit was removed I would park my vp geared 60 Rogue and grief until the server exploded.

[snufzaimoverlord]

I would ooc 'One Shot!' after every noob in rags I slay and make PvP vids with hardcore dubstep.

[kildone]

I would ooc 'One Shot!' after every noob in rags I slay and make PvP vids with hardcore dubstep.

I guess you could do some one shots and run away even if a group of lvl 60s there to serve as protectors could kill you?

I have always thought that the community could do more to preserve a good server environment that some computer code.

I am guessing this was tried in the past and failed? That people didn't care enough, or the hit and run like a coward folks made my idea impossible.

[Swish]

I also had cr spells up to help someone get their corpse

Don't run around with the wrong spells up, OP... failing to prepare is preparing to fail and all that :p

[fred schnarf]

Those lvl 60 with VP gear just make a 20 fungi twink for crushbone. With level limit there is no chance for a group of folks with only level 60 to fight back.

I think a large enough group of non VP lvl 60 could beat the VP 60s. There are way more folks who would like to kill the people causing grief in CB. That's been my experience on the server anyways. This would be a rallying point for possible large scale lvl 60 Pvp battles in CB.

So the level limit serves only to protect the twinks who cause the grief correct?

please never say the words "I Think" Ever again, since you are stupid they mean nothing

[LostCause]

no yt if you kill a player under 10.

NEXT

[kildone]

Don't run around with the wrong spells up, OP... failing to prepare is preparing to fail and all that :p

I wasn't running around. I put up a few spells to see invis camo sow and port a guy to nk for cr.

I will do them one at a time next time.

But that dont speak to my point about how this guy or others like him are basically untouchables.

[dontbanpls]

I really dont see why they dont just remove the effects of beneficial spells from oor players. It makes no sense that they only half ass the coding for the OOR system when it is clearly being abused.

shit is classic

[Videri]

Kildone, way to go for initiating discussion; and I'm impressed with your ability to brush off the rude responses you've already received. Pras.

I, for one, like the 4-level PvP limit. A prepared, skilled, reasonably well-geared group of players actually does have a chance against a twinked character within 4 levels of them. They would have zero chance against a player 20 levels or more above them.

But that dont speak to my point about how this guy or others like him are basically untouchables.

To beat twinks, we need to either twink our own characters (obviously not possible for a new player) or move in groups.

If you play a class that is good at fighting and killing other players (melees, shaman, necro, druid), fight back; if you play a class that is good at escaping (bard, casters, cleric, druid again), escape. But above all, learn to move with an entourage. It could even be just one other player whose class complements yours. Make friends and roll with them. Once again, the mistake is mine if I fail to do one of the above things.

Anyway. New players have to expect it to be hard. You will lose more than you win until you get geared and get good. No amount of code can change that.

[Videri]

I really dont see why they dont just remove the effects of beneficial spells from oor players. It makes no sense that they only half ass the coding for the OOR system when it is clearly being abused.

You mean code it so you can only receive buffs from a character within 4 levels of you? That sounds like a great idea, actually. I would like to see that implemented. Unfortunately, the stated goals of the server seem to be replicating classic EQ, so I doubt they'll implement anything "custom" like your idea, but I wish they would. It would be much more sane.

[kildone]

Thanks Videri for your thoughtful responses. Your right about being in groups. So far the only guy I seen willing to attack a group was Blasty. We sure had a blast chasing him around unrest.

I also like the idea about beneficial spells being limit by levels the way detrimental spells are. Your also spot on with the classic comment. I did a little research and I remember now that when I played RZ in 2000 there seemed to be a level limit on Pvp.

I guess I am more interested in the why than I am trying to initiate a server change.

One thought though. From my little bit of research it appears there was no limit on the teams servers. Does anyone remember if this is true? If so has anyone heard Dev comments about this when discussing the possible future p99 teams server.?

[Humerox]

should have been here when it was +/- 8 and solb/permafrost were both FFA

+/- 4 was fought for every inch of the way

[Timelord]

they do more good. because instead of getting griefed by a lvl 20 fungi twink in crushbone, youd be getting griefed by lvl 60s in VP gear in crushbone

Right now if a 60 with VP gear wants, he can create a 20 fungi twink to slaughter in Crushbone.

That is the problem. The level 60 is a douchbag but no one knows who he is.

Now If I want to help my level 20 friend getting killed in Crushbone, I need to level a character up to 20 and twink him out with a bunch of gear(taking away from my other level 60) just to help out my buddy.

The real way to solve this problem is to level the playing field.

Let the 60 with VP gear harass the level 20s except now, someone who wants to help him can take their level 60 and come help out.

You cant stop the 60 in VP gear from being a douche, but you can enable it so that when he is a douche, he isnt protected by level brackets.

If you had a 20-60 pvp bracket, no one would have level 20 twinks or alts to grief because they would all use their 60s.

Then at least people would know what level 60 is being a dochebag to low levels because they would earn a bad reputation for doing it.

It also promotes low level players to join with people so they get pals to help protect them.

[Grimjaw]

sullon zek no limits imo. level limits are fucked up not red at all. blue server

[Tassador]

Would vote for +- 8 levels again plus exp lost 10% per pvp death remove lns.

[Quiet]

You are forgetting the EQ pvp isn't designed to be fair. The classes are imbalanced for combat against each other. The combat and imbalance in levels are not designed to provide optimal pvp. It wasn't until the WoW era criers showed up that fair and balanced pvp arrived. It added difficulty to playing the less then optimal pvp classes, which some people find fun.

[Kergan]

I vote for +/- 0 levels.

[Dany]

Still doesn't change the fact that at my level (56 enc) NOTHING LANDS on anyone even tashed (lvl 44 one).

I'm like a punching bag, with low HP... is this classic? I mean... melees just murder us by pushing key # 1 and 2.

I won't even talk about a rogue that DISC me... a real joke.

Resists are broken? /rant off

[Kergan]

shit's classic

Kunark was a disc murderfest.

[erog84]

Still doesn't change the fact that at my level (56 enc) NOTHING LANDS on anyone even tashed (lvl 44 one).

I'm like a punching bag, with low HP... is this classic? I mean... melees just murder us by pushing key # 1 and 2.

I won't even talk about a rogue that DISC me... a real joke.

Resists are broken? /rant off

Haven't been on yet with new resists, but if you are basing this off old resists, then you are crazy. Just the other day I had an ench chain mez me while I had 120 MR. He kept me mezed until he drained all my mana and then killed me.

Also alot of casters have things like GATE, and SHADOWSTEP. Rogue gets caught out in the open by lets say a group of people, they are going to get gangbanged, whereas on a caster you have a chance of gating out. EQ is not balanced for pvp, but there are still certain pros and cons to each class.

[BardPop]

I
I am just seeking enlightenment and a good discussion.
Ok, heres the issue. Your are taking a few incidents and taking them something they are not. For example, you said something like "I play a caster and couldn't land spells". For pvp it really depends what spells you are trying to cast. Just because you didn't land spells on that guy doesn't mean all spells are broken, which is kind of how it seems like from your post. Spells tend to get better as you level, at lv 10 or whatever you don't have a full spellbook with all the useful spells

Also, I have experience with twinks. Twinks are not rampant, they are just part of cb. Don't level through cb thinking you have to change it in order to level, just lv and leave like everybody does. If you want to avoid being killed take note of who is in zone. Everyone knows who the pks are, and when one of them comes in you will know who they are, look at http://r99pvp.com/showzone.php?z=Crushbone for a list of the biggest cb killas

When you see a pk just run , if you want to fight cordinate with your group to make sure they are up to it. Groups in cb consist of random people from all walks of life and it varies whether they want to fight or just 'ignore them' and keep exping like lambs to the slaughter. As someone who has leveled 6 toons through cb I can tell you that if you can't count on your group then don't try to fight, just clear out of the zone, Go exp in bb. Someone once said that cb pvp is a test of your stoutness on a pvp server, if you can't handle dying or having difficulty exping then forget it. Pvp disruptions happen all the way up to the top level, with guilds fighting over spawns or top lv dungeons such as seb

[Kergan]

Still doesn't change the fact that at my level (56 enc) NOTHING LANDS on anyone even tashed (lvl 44 one).

I'm like a punching bag, with low HP... is this classic? I mean... melees just murder us by pushing key # 1 and 2.

I won't even talk about a rogue that DISC me... a real joke.

Resists are broken? /rant off

You mean you can't just cast 1 super low mana fast casting spell on someone with a bunch of MR gear and immediately make it so they can get mezzed, rooted, snared crippled and nuked?

Wow sounds like shit is BROKE.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Still doesn't change the fact that at my level (56 enc) NOTHING LANDS on anyone even tashed (lvl 44 one).

I'm like a punching bag, with low HP... is this classic? I mean... melees just murder us by pushing key # 1 and 2.

I won't even talk about a rogue that DISC me... a real joke.

Resists are broken? /rant off

Also mezz won't work on 55+ targets. Higher mezz has a better chance of taking over lower ones.

Need rapture at 59.

56-58 inclusive are the worst levels for an enchanter.

[kildone]

Ok, heres the issue. Your are taking a few incidents and taking them something they are not. For example, you said something like "I play a caster and couldn't land spells". For pvp it really depends what spells you are trying to cast. Just because you didn't land spells on that guy doesn't mean all spells are broken, which is kind of how it seems like from your post. Spells tend to get better as you level, at lv 10 or whatever you don't have a full spellbook with all the useful spells

Also, I have experience with twinks. Twinks are not rampant, they are just part of cb. Don't level through cb thinking you have to change it in order to level, just lv and leave like everybody does. If you want to avoid being killed take note of who is in zone. Everyone knows who the pks are, and when one of them comes in you will know who they are, look at http://r99pvp.com/showzone.php?z=Crushbone for a list of the biggest cb killas

When you see a pk just run , if you want to fight cordinate with your group to make sure they are up to it. Groups in cb consist of random people from all walks of life and it varies whether they want to fight or just 'ignore them' and keep exping like lambs to the slaughter. As someone who has leveled 6 toons through cb I can tell you that if you can't count on your group then don't try to fight, just clear out of the zone, Go exp in bb. Someone once said that cb pvp is a test of your stoutness on a pvp server, if you can't handle dying or having difficulty exping then forget it. Pvp disruptions happen all the way up to the top level, with guilds fighting over spawns or top lv dungeons such as seb

What I actually said was that nothing landed. Snare, root, dot, fire nuke, lightning nuke. Only from what I read others post and say in game a twink with high MR can not be hit by any spell. Maybe they were wrong. Maybe I was just unlucky.

I don't mind dying. It actually makes my day more fun. My post was about how I could not come back and pay back this guy who never levels nor can other people come and root this tick out of the zone.

I am of a different mindset based on the many posts I have read here. The main point being about this server being designed to match the classic rules.
Also noted that resist changes may make a difference even if this throws the classic experience, in this regard, out the window.

I have also seen how a group can possibly take a twink out and how sometimes even a whole group cannot. Depends on the exact levels I guess.

In general your post has good advice and I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

[gusH]

As this thread turned to constructive advice for EXPing PK Free:

Get to know the PKs in your level range, then use / and the p99 scoreboard to see where/when they've been active.

Camping for 10-20 minutes doesn't work with many. They have no life and will wait longer than you're willing. I'm new and my first tune just hit 17, so I'm already familiar with the CB/Unrest/Dagnors PKs.

Just look up Suicide. I escaped that skillless fungi faggot numerous times. I'd check the leaderboards 45 minutes later, and guess what, he's still in the same zone trying to PK CRing lowbies teaching them to use LnS the hard way.

Heightened awareness won't end PKing but certainly helps.

[King Chipp]

OP is retarded. No need to read this thread pals.

[heartbrand]

Pop would drop to single digits if there were no level limit

[Nirgon]

did not read buzz off

[Colgate]

ya skimmed over OP and it appeared that he thinks he'd get griefed less if level 60s were able to attack him as well

am i retarded for interpreting his post that way or is he the retarded one?

[Humerox]

ya skimmed over OP and it appeared that he thinks he'd get griefed less if level 60s were able to attack him as well

am i retarded for interpreting his post that way or is he the retarded one?

he thinks level 60's would have better stuff to do.

he obv never played SZ where wizzies would MB you as soon as your level 1 naked A$$ booked into a zone. all day long. or where one social misfit would clear entire newbie zones for hours. and hours. and hours.

people always underestimate the lengths a few maniacs will go to when it comes to grief.

[Grimjaw]

Would vote for +- 8 levels again plus exp lost 10% per pvp death remove lns.

would love some good old fashioned afk bind-camp deleveling

[BardPop]

he thinks level 60's would have better stuff to do.

he obv never played SZ where wizzies would MB you as soon as your level 1 naked A$$ booked into a zone. all day long. or where one social misfit would clear entire newbie zones for hours. and hours. and hours.

people always underestimate the lengths a few maniacs will go to when it comes to grief.

Not true. On Sz it was a different person like ever hour, was unique in the way that anybody could grief, you didn't have to be geared or even make a special character for it. Just had to be like 20 levels higher and you could be part of the crew that generated 1900 deaths in each noob zone, like every month

Here is a history http://www.treborlogic.com/sz/history/feb03_zones.txt
Scroll down to field of bone/gfay total you will see how many people were dying.

Looking back 60 pvp on lowbies is stupid unless you got a big population, which eq on sz did because no other game existed. (3x our population)Eq held people hostage to the server in that sense. Nowdays if times get rough they easymode it in wow instead of tough it out, for shame.

[Timelord]

he thinks level 60's would have better stuff to do.

he obv never played SZ where wizzies would MB you as soon as your level 1 naked A$$ booked into a zone. all day long. or where one social misfit would clear entire newbie zones for hours. and hours. and hours.

people always underestimate the lengths a few maniacs will go to when it comes to grief.

Usually a level 60 is pvping lowbies because they suck at pvping at 60. You would get clerics who want to just nuke someone to death. Usually if a 60 showed up they would leave or log off.

There were always people who were looking for pvp and would come help out and fight against those killing lowbies. That builds cool pal bridges.

Also, those people who did grief lowbies were usually outcasts because no one like what they were doing. Most of them were made fun of because they couldn't pvp anyone their own level.

Just look at the PvP leader boards here. Most of the top names are from people below 50 who were just greifing really. The current level bracket just encourages twink pvp greifing. Most people who arent twinks dont want to pvp, they want to level up and pvp at 60 with the rest of the population.

[kildone]

ya skimmed over OP and it appeared that he thinks he'd get griefed less if level 60s were able to attack him as well

am i retarded for interpreting his post that way or is he the retarded one?

I said that without level limits I would have a chance to level + gear and maybe one day kill said twink. As it stands, some people think, that by twinking and deleveling a person can be untouchable.

I also said that thanks to great discussion on this thread I am of a different mindset than when I first posted.

[kildone]

he thinks level 60's would have better stuff to do.

he obv never played SZ where wizzies would MB you as soon as your level 1 naked A$$ booked into a zone. all day long. or where one social misfit would clear entire newbie zones for hours. and hours. and hours.

people always underestimate the lengths a few maniacs will go to when it comes to grief.

See above reply to Colgate.

[kildone]

Quoted wrong reply

[kildone]

he thinks level 60's would have better stuff to do.

he obv never played SZ where wizzies would MB you as soon as your level 1 naked A$$ booked into a zone. all day long. or where one social misfit would clear entire newbie zones for hours. and hours. and hours.

people always underestimate the lengths a few maniacs will go to when it comes to grief.



From what I read in many places SZ would have suited me perfectly. I am also having much fun in P99 red just the way it is.

I never asked for a change. Just to learn why things are the way they are.

ps why MB a level 1, or are you trying to point out the person was crazy because he didn't save MB to kill say a level 40?

[heartbrand]

would love some good old fashioned afk bind-camp deleveling

Ya, Bamzal was a big part of all the AFK bind camps we've had here on R99.......



o wait wasn't at any of them.




try logging in and playing box, NEXT

[Kergan]

I said that without level limits I would have a chance to level + gear and maybe one day kill said twink. As it stands, some people think, that by twinking and deleveling a person can be untouchable.

I also said that thanks to great discussion on this thread I am of a different mindset than when I first posted.

The flaw with that logic is nobody would need to make a twink anymore they'd just steamroll you with a level 60 instead.

[kildone]

The flaw with that logic is nobody would need to make a twink anymore they'd just steamroll you with a level 60 instead.

In my longer, earlier post, my logic was that other level 60s would retaliate against said griefers. As I have read fom SZ and as Timelord posted the retaliation would be both in the form of PvP and a sort of boycott. It seems a bit harder to invest all the way to 60 on a 'throw away character' to be used soley for 'greifing' than the current requirement to get lvl 15-30.

That was my original thought. After this discussion, I am not sure anymore. At least on this server with this population.

In the end I don't know if we can ever really know for sure because it has not been tried here.

I am taking the most prevailent advice I have gotten here. Focus on leveling up to try the lvl 60 PvP here. And do so in groups. Not just for exp bonus but the safety in numbers.

[Humerox]

From what I read in many places SZ would have suited me perfectly. I am also having much fun in P99 red just the way it is.

I never asked for a change. Just to learn why things are the way they are.

ps why MB a level 1, or are you trying to point out the person was crazy because he didn't save MB to kill say a level 40?

i was just pointing out that without level limits the griefers go absolutely nuts. they do not care about anything except ruining someone else's play experience. that is what's fun to them and the only reason they play.

r99 is chock full of those types of personalities.

[Kergan]

At least on this server with this population.


Nail on the head there. If we didn't have a bunch of legitimate sociopaths playing here you wouldn't need a strategy to counter the griefing in the first place.

This place makes the SZ population look like a bunch of nuns.

[Humerox]

This place makes the SZ population look like a bunch of nuns.

sig worthy, lol

[erog84]

Usually a level 60 is pvping lowbies because they suck at pvping at 60. You would get clerics who want to just nuke someone to death. Usually if a 60 showed up they would leave or log off.

There were always people who were looking for pvp and would come help out and fight against those killing lowbies. That builds cool pal bridges.

Also, those people who did grief lowbies were usually outcasts because no one like what they were doing. Most of them were made fun of because they couldn't pvp anyone their own level.

Just look at the PvP leader boards here. Most of the top names are from people below 50 who were just greifing really. The current level bracket just encourages twink pvp greifing. Most people who arent twinks dont want to pvp, they want to level up and pvp at 60 with the rest of the population.

While true for some people, I don't think this is as true as you think. Alot of the fungi twinks have lvl 60's in the top guilds, and some are fairly good at pvp. Also, plenty of people on this server want to level up and NOT pvp with the rest of the population. Due to blue being so crowded and the xp bonus on here, we have a lot of bluebies.

I think some of the 60's who jump on their twink alts occasionally do so because they dont currently see 60 pvp happening, and they want to pvp. I will log on on my highlvl toon and look for pvp, and when I can't find it easily enough (im not a porter, so jumping around to every zone isn't as easy), then sometimes I will log on a lower lvl toon to group. If i had a current twink, I would just log on that and kill someone to pass some time.

[Kergan]

I think some of the 60's who jump on their twink alts occasionally do so because they dont currently see 60 pvp happening, and they want to pvp. I will log on on my highlvl toon and look for pvp, and when I can't find it easily enough (im not a porter, so jumping around to every zone isn't as easy), then sometimes I will log on a lower lvl toon to group. If i had a current twink, I would just log on that and kill someone to pass some time.

That is such bs. Making a level 20 with ragebringer and fungus to pvp is the act of someone who enjoys tormenting others, nothing more.

[BardPop]

Nail on the head there. If we didn't have a bunch of legitimate sociopaths playing here you wouldn't need a strategy to counter the griefing in the first place.

This place makes the SZ population look like a bunch of nuns.

The thing that makes this server one of the worst is that all the griefers have been doing eq for so long it has warped them in ways. As a former rehabilitated eq junkie its pretty predictable, none of the dicks on here have something going for them all they got is eq and drugs if they have any.

Back on sz it was new and everybody was young enough to have not failed, now you got bitter people taking it out on the game. I only play here because I can do it on my terms

For the record the level of grief here is still minimal thx to our friendly 'lns' policy. Take away the avenue of grief and they can't grief, and all the griefer players at the low end just get blown away like dust in the wind.

[BardPop]

That is such bs. Making a level 20 with ragebringer and fungus to pvp is the act of someone who enjoys tormenting others, nothing more.

Ya we know lool is azrael he had a cleric following him around a month ago, anarak unguilded and lower is some fresh member. Its not terrible that theres less then 10 of them for all of the popular faydwer zones up to 30ish, and past that the newbies are basically in the clear of all of them. Not terrible at all

[Kergan]

Just the act of having teams on SZ makes the situation different. You can't talk to them, you can't group with them, guild with them, etc. It dehumanizes them into fancy NPCs.

[erog84]

That is such bs. Making a level 20 with ragebringer and fungus to pvp is the act of someone who enjoys tormenting others, nothing more.

That must be the only reason.... OR they could also

- Not be very good at pvp and need that advantage.
- Enjoy attacking full groups
- Attack people getting powerlvled from highlvls
- Attack the other twinks to defend the noobs (there is a few who do that).

And if they really are doing it to "torment" others, who cares, its a pvp server. I was in unrest last week and a full group ran off a twink multiple times. In mm a few weeks ago multiple twinks had to plug against a group of non twinks who just worked together well. And that isn't even talking about how there are more than just crushbone/mistmoore/unrest to lvl up in. When I first started about half the twinks I ran into were really cool, they would only kill me once and let me cr and keep lvling, didn't even have to LNS. Some even gave me some change and advice on pvp. Most "griefers" will continue to grief if you are constantly crying about it, but if you chill out for a minute and just chit chat with them, they are pretty cool.

I know a lot of eq hate talking about WOW... but lvling up in stranglethorn vale on my first toon constantly mousing around to watch 360 degrees every 20 seconds and getting jumped every 5 minutes was what I really enjoyed. I got slaughtered by 60's quite often, but there was a few times me and my buddy, at lvl 35 were able to kill the 60's jumping us (obviously they were terrible players). Some people enjoy that, others have even posted on the forums about that thrill that got them hooked on red.

[Kergan]

Ya we know lool is azrael he had a cleric following him around a month ago, anarak unguilded and lower is some fresh member. Its not terrible that theres less then 10 of them for all of the popular faydwer zones up to 30ish, and past that the newbies are basically in the clear of all of them. Not terrible at all

I actually blame the Azrael people a lot less than others for making those twinks as compared to some old Nihilum people for example. It may come as a shock to some but I'll openly admit that pound for pound Azrael had more skill than Nihilum and that was a direct result of fighting against the odds or with lower numbers the vast majority of the time.

At some point you just need to release some aggression and murder the fuck out of people in the easiest way possible. :)

That being said, there is a big difference between blowing off some steam for an hour once a week and being in the newbie zones 8 hours a day.

[BardPop]

. You can't talk to them
You could talk to them

[Chronoburn]

Just the act of having teams on SZ makes the situation different.

Bingo. We have a winner.

[Emoteen]

I love(d) the SZ rule set. Right now we have twinks engaging exp groups of lower levels +/-4. If it opened up to all levels we would have 60's engaging the lower level groups, other 60s coming to fight them, and increased pvp. Hell, we might even see a PK guild, and anti PK guild, and an anti anti PK guild.

Or just do teams, no LNS, trains Ok, no level limit... <3