ogres and AONs

[Lowlife]

coming to red, do ogres lose frontal stun immunity when using an AoN / wolf form on here? I searched and found contradictory answers and differing accounts between red and blue posts.

[Colgate]

pretty sure they lose it

[Tune]

pretty sure they lose it

they dont

[Lowlife]

this is what i'm talking about lol

[Kergan]

I have a lvl 60 ogre war with guise I can test this and get back to you at some point when I feelers like it.

[Potus]

Frontal stun immunity the most overrated shit in the game.

[Kergan]

It's the only racial that matters.

[Herpa Derp]

Frontal stun immunity the most overrated shit in the game.

[Clark]

Frontal stun immunity the most overrated shit in the game.

You retarded? Or just retarded.

[dis_mornin]

Frontal stun immunity is very overrated.. granted its a powerful racial but I would chose race based on other factors. Unless a shaman. Frontal stun immunity strong for shaman

[girth]

Also good for tanking.

[Nirgon]

It's the only racial that matters.

regen

sneak

[Lowlife]

Basically heres my dilemma, I'm rolling a shammy on red, most discussions about Shaman race proclaim that Ogres are the very best due to their fronal stun immunity (stated mostly through the prism that one can solo high end mobs like lodi easier, which idk if thats something people will be doing on red), a fact I accept. Now, I understand that AoNs are important in the end-game PvP here on red due to their ability to remove ones nameplate. Its my understanding that trolls and iksars retain their regeneration while under skeleton illusion, but ogres possibly lose their sole biggest racial advantage.

I'm abandoning blue. The raid scene is terrible. I don't care about PvE ability as much as what racial is more marginally effective in PvP in my exodus. With that said, thats why I'm asking about ogres and AONs, if ogres get neutered as a skeleton (or as a bear in velious? any guidance on that would be appreciated) I'd probably roll something else, like a troll (5 fr ftw) or iksar (no bash, no jbb).

People say regen is useless when you get torpor, but I'm not sure if that statement is blue logic or not, given the fact that torpor snares your ass.

[Nirgon]

so sneak is garbage on monks? they don't get hide :)

Sneak's good if you can keep yourself positioned right and it doesn't break when casting/attacking afaik

[fred schnarf]

frontal stun immunity is great, wait till you start tanking velious shit, non ogres will be stun locked on alot of the mobs, and if your stunned you arent building aggro.

[Lowlife]

yeah i figured slam was a must but wasn't sure how effective it was against players at higher levels.

[HippoNipple]

If slam was coded correctly here I'd have like 7+ kills but since it isn't I just role new raiding chars.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Breakout rap album gonna be named "ogres and aons"

[HippoNipple]

After years of being on these forums poor Hippo still doesn't understand the Trolling Formula...

Truth x Spin + GIF = Troll

He still thinks you can say any nonsense and it's trolling, trolling is like PvP brah it's an artform and you fail at both.

You have a count on how many AoNs you have helped farm for Gyno?

[Kergan]

regen

sneak

Regen is nice, sneak is nice but neither are game changers like gaining an immunity only available to 1 race in the game.

[Kergan]

Ok for PvP here's the pro's/cons

Ogre-No regen, which hurts at lower lvls for medding, they are big as fuck which causes a problem when your zone dancing with someone and they run into small corridors. They also get slam which can be nice interrupt for casters if they didn't break it last patch and it almost always misses now. Plus frontal immunity with helps when your fighting melees.

Troll- Regen is nice, exp penalty is a pain, and - fire sucks. They also get slam..see above.

Iksar-Regen, stone of morid range slot is the tits, no slam sucks tho. Hellva exp hit, but leveling on red is easy as fuck.

Currently Iksar prolly the best choice for Shaman in pvp but if they ever fix slam Troll or Ogre would be better.

Keep in mind morid opens up to all large races in velious (I think its pre luclin anyway). Iksars probably get the biggest bump though because of tons more gearing options. Size becomes much less of a factor in Velious as well, aside from skyshrine near the entrance I can't think of a single place like Guk or SolB where being big as fuck is a pita. Maybe a few places in icewell, but ST, ToV, DN, Velks, SG, etc, etc all have plenty of headroom.

They ever fix poison bolt to basically be an auto interrupt like it was on live? Haven't played a shaman in PVP since 2001.

[Kergan]

o snap. Last time I really played I was on a necro on RoZ just assumed shm got it too at like level 9.

In Vel people will likely relocate to Thurg or Kael though. They are just so much better as cities.

[HippoNipple]

Haven't played a shaman in PVP since 2001.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/HAHA-GIF.gif

[BardPop]

If somebody asks you if you want to play an iksar shm just say no

[Lime]

One of the best racials extremely powerful in pvp, you're just a terrible player who is absolutely worthless outside your 80 man zerg.

It's the only racial that matters.

If somebody asks you if you want to play an iksar shm just say no

Alot of iksar hate on forums but Iksar is definitely a top race contender.

http://i.imgur.com/9Lzbbex.jpg

Everyone likes to jump on the Ogre/troll bandwagon here, and they make excellent shamans but being fat is a major drawback. Even if you illusion to be smaller (which is about the only way you can bearably play a large race in pvp) you have to deal with the emulator illusion bug, which makes your illusion huge, aka Giant AoN Skeleton, Giant Dark Elf to others.

Case in point, screencap taken from Lite's 4v4 video. Large race Warrior, with dark elf illusion. As you can see he is super giant and this is not something you want on a support character that has to kite and juke people to get casts off.

http://i.imgur.com/Iv0Gmtz.jpg

Also AoN has some drawbacks being that it is/was prohibitively expensive, it removes large race bonuses like slam and frontal stun from working (currently), and in zones like SolB, zoning in and AoNing immediately can give away your surprise attack to others with a "Enemy Red begins to cast a spell." Along with a possible negative faction for being skeleton which may make it unusable in some zones currently or in the future.

Iksar/troll also gets +80 hp/minute more than ogre standing/running/plugging, which is great when zone hopping and kiting melee trains especially in situations where you can't get away to cast torpor.

Ogre can get crucial casts off slightly better in some situations, but iksar/troll will be getting slightly more hp or mana per second from regen to get more spells off or turtle longer.

My advice is play the race that you like playing, and don't worry about the min/max peanut gallery, because it matters alot less than player skill.

[Aradune]

If you can roll ogre, you should roll ogre.

Anything else is retarded and shouldnt even be considered.

[BardPop]

Make whatever you want, but keep in mind racials do matter.

I'll throw a few more things to consider in these guys haven't mentioned:
Jaundiced bone bracer: No iksar. If your not rich and can't afford jbb, no iksar on the other pieces as well.
Barb spiritists hammer off ct: great melee item barb only.

[Danger]

hows shaman slam working at 60 atm? thats the tie breaker imho, im in the same boat here trying to figure this out troll vs iksar

also is there still a missing alchie vendor in cabilis? thats something to consider

[Tomm Selleck]

Alot of iksar hate on forums but Iksar is definitely a top race contender.

http://i.imgur.com/9Lzbbex.jpg

Everyone likes to jump on the Ogre/troll bandwagon here, and they make excellent shamans but being fat is a major drawback. Even if you illusion to be smaller (which is about the only way you can bearably play a large race in pvp) you have to deal with the emulator illusion bug, which makes your illusion huge, aka Giant AoN Skeleton, Giant Dark Elf to others.

Case in point, screencap taken from Lite's 4v4 video. Large race Warrior, with dark elf illusion. As you can see he is super giant and this is not something you want on a support character that has to kite and juke people to get casts off.

http://i.imgur.com/Iv0Gmtz.jpg

Also AoN has some drawbacks being that it is/was prohibitively expensive, it removes large race bonuses like slam and frontal stun from working (currently), and in zones like SolB, zoning in and AoNing immediately can give away your surprise attack to others with a "Enemy Red begins to cast a spell." Along with a possible negative faction for being skeleton which may make it unusable in some zones currently or in the future.

Iksar/troll also gets +80 hp/minute more than ogre standing/running/plugging, which is great when zone hopping and kiting melee trains especially in situations where you can't get away to cast torpor.

Ogre can get crucial casts off slightly better in some situations, but iksar/troll will be getting slightly more hp or mana per second from regen to get more spells off or turtle longer.

My advice is play the race that you like playing, and don't worry about the min/max peanut gallery, because it matters alot less than player skill.

Lime knows his shit, basically every other day i think about rerolling iksar... i mean shit you could get into the high 100s for regen with the regen potions on top of iksar regen, and fungi (obviously trolls can too).

Slam is the dumbest fucking thing on this server specially with the AC changes ( which iksars benefit from greatly). The only way you will land slam effectively is if you hit them in the back.

Also, iksars look dope as fuck and with velious coming they will get some beast planar gear AND will be able to wear plate. So all in all you are losing an extremely overrated bash, and frontal immunity..

THE ONLY REASON im staying barbarian is because i am the last of my kind from classic (no ames, burt, cholk, mendan, ghost)....plus i got dat server first epic in my hands and i get to be a FUCKING POLAR BEAR in velious

lime is love, lime is life

AJAx

[RIP The Jacka]

jbb awful reason to pick race for, may have limited use in soloing but very rarely do you have the freedom to cast it over buffing/medding/canniing/other spells

spiritist hammer also bad reason, sure useful while leveling up, or if u plan to stop at a certain level but epic >

2c as a non shaman

[Kergan]

My only PVP kill on my shaman came from chain clicking JBB when an Azrael monk got trapped in one of those buildings in FoB by Kaesora zone in.

Think it took like 16 clicks but I got the bastard.

[Lowlife]

Guys thank you so much for all of the feedback,

[Ezalor]

keep in mind troll/iksar regen doesnt really kick in until 51+

http://i.imgur.com/PlWqoQB.png

[Tomm Selleck]

Slam isn't broken from AC...AC isn't coded to hit/miss here everything rolls of the skill which is the problem.

Basically if you have a 200 skill you have an equal chance against cloth/plate. Ac doesn't factor hit/miss at all just damage absorb rates.

Slam is broken for three reasons;

A. It never lands, unlike live

B. It doesn't always apply the stun like Bash

C. Here people can regain through short duration stuns, seems to work with NPC's stopping casting bar but not always with player's for some reason.

Like I said earlier Iksar would be the way to go ATM due to slam being basically worthless, and only because of the stone of morid.

my theory is that it sucks balls NOT because of AC, but the fact we dont have a bash skill to lvl up and increase our chance of hitting someone. so it basically works like the shitty racial sneak. Slam is GREAT for big classes if you are a melee class that gets bash, as it can lvl up with it. Also lets you use 2h and bash still before epic no? As I said thats my theory and could be completely talking out my ass.

[Danger]

slam sucks, being big sucks, jbb useless, lose frontal stun immunity with AON therefore iksar. there you go.

[Kergan]

Picking race based on AON dum.

[Kergan]

Because you are immune to stuns from the front.

[RIP The Jacka]

Why is frontal stun immunity "so powerful"? Please explain this using lay-casters terms.

immune to frontal stuns aka bashes/kicks; for pvp and pve

[Bohab]

tanked much of high end velious content without frontal stun immunity on the beta server. had no trouble positioning or keeping aggro or any of the crap people claim you can't do without it. its a crock of shit for a tank. tired of hearing this crap

[Kergan]

Nobody is saying it is required. There would be no debate if you needed frontal stun immunity to do content.