GM confirmation please?

[Ambrouis]

I remember reading in some rules in a post by I believe Rogean, may have been Der, about lists with specifically the AC camp; however, for camps with the prize as a lore item. In the pose, it specifically stated that if a player asked the camper if there was a list and they stated no, as long as the asking person stayed within proximity they would be next for the camp. If there was a list, it would be stated to the person and that person would then be put on the list. After the ring drop, the next person on the list had approx 5 min from the next spawn to engage or forfeiting to the next individual present on the list.

I would like confirmation, if possible, that there can or cannot be lists, so players as well as guides understand.

Since speaking with Guide Moregan @ 1:30pm PST 3/3/2015, lists are invalid and will not be enforced.

Please clarify and thank you for your time!

PS: if my specific story would like to be heard, I will post it.

[Eunomia]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1652719&postcount=9

Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time. I really need to compile a "Project 1999: Errata and other extraneous information" post to put all this stuff. For now, this will have to do:

Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:

1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt. W

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

We only require the campholder announce who is next (if he does plan to pass the camp) when asked.

We don't recognize lists beyond who is next.

I know at times players do agree to keep a list going, but we do not require it.

[Ambrouis]

So, if there is a list, and someone cuts before any reasonable time is given, is that a violation?

i.e. watching the mob spawn is invalid

[Argh]

So, if there is a list, and someone cuts before any reasonable time is given, is that a violation?

See: #2 above.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Welcome to the high-demand content of p99. On live, overcrowding and all kinds of trickery happened during these early eras of eq.

On live, Kunark came out one year after the original release, and Velious came only 9 months after that. On this server, Kunark alone has already been out 4 years.

SO what have this server's players done? Have they used all this extra time to solve some of the overcrowding and scarcity issues of eq?

No. For the most part, p99 represents a tale of human nature. Given more time, human beings do not solve problems, but rather they apply their ingenuity and energy to find ways to make the problems more and more entrenched and part of their way of life.

tl;dr on p99 all contested camps and content are like little doorways to hell. That's what gamers trend toward, apparently. It is not in their nature to improve games, only make them worse.

Now of course someone will post a story about how, once, someone from one of the top gangs once did something nice for them. But you know who else sometimes did nice things for people? That's right.

[Eunomia]

What do you mean reasonable time?

If the camp holder is handing off the camp, you need to be there when he hands off. If you aren't, there is no hand off.

If current camp holder forfeits the camp before a hand off is made, the camp become FFA / FTE placeholder.

[Ambrouis]

Reasonable time = 15 seconds before the first repop of the camp

[Eunomia]

Like I said,

If the camp holder is handing off the camp, you need to be there when he hands off. If you aren't, there is no hand off.

If current camp holder forfeits the camp before a hand off is made, the camp become FFA / FTE placeholder.

[maskedmelon]

What do you mean reasonable time?

If the camp holder is handing off the camp, you need to be there when he hands off. If you aren't, there is no hand off.

If current camp holder forfeits the camp before a hand off is made, the camp become FFA / FTE placeholder.

Ohhhh that is interesting. So players do no have to hand off camps I anyone and if they do not i becomes FFA. Interesting....!

[Ambrouis]

Ok, here's the story. I was 2nd in line for frenzy so I went to lord and cleared everything from him to frenzy and back. The previous person at frenzy had already stated who he was handing the camp off to; however, when I cleared back for the 8th time, there was a cleric, metifo of divinity, sitting at the camp, I then sat there waiting for the monk to come back and as soon as the first mob spawned, he engaged. I let him know there was a list and he was cutting. After many tells, and a little while later, Moregan responded... and asked the cutter if there was a list /boggle

[Ambrouis]

Ohhhh that is interesting. So players do no have to hand off camps I anyone and if they do not i becomes FFA. Interesting....!

exactly! Even if they have stated there is a list!

[Argh]

Are you guys even reading the responses?

[Eunomia]

Your agreement for hand off has to be with the current camp holder. 2nd in line is not going to guarantee you anything, because when the camp is handed off, the new camp holder is not required to carry forward the same list.

[Ambrouis]

Ok, so as soon as the previous holder leaves, camp is ffa cuz the previous person next on the next stated person for the camp has just changed

[Eunomia]

If the previous camp holder did not hand off, it's ffa / fte placeholder.

[Ambrouis]

you can also hand off to a different person than previously stated as next on the camp list?


2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next.

[Eunomia]

Who was listed as "next" when you asked?

[Ambrouis]

Vendilion

[Eunomia]

You are welcome to file a petition against the camp holder in the Petition / Exploit section of the forum. We will investigate and question those involved and take appropriate action.

[Tiggles]

Play red etc

[raeanin]

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but am I to understand that when my monk(1st character) is of the appropriate level to get in a frenzy group, it won't happen because it's perma camped by soloers farming the sash for plat? Are there never level appropriate groups there?

[Erati]

lists are dumb

just roll a druid and when your camp is occupied you port somewhere else and check for other named :P

[indiscriminate_hater]

inb4

https://barneymccoy.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/crapsdiceroll.jpg

http://www.showbiz411.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/red.jpg

[kaev]

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but am I to understand that when my monk(1st character) is of the appropriate level to get in a frenzy group, it won't happen because it's perma camped by soloers farming the sash for plat? Are there never level appropriate groups there?

Welcome to the world of OVER 9000! bored L60s. 4 years after Kunark release LGuk should be a mostly empty wasteland because everybody's moved on to better content. Here LGuk is a mostly empty wasteland because overpowered individual toons with nothing more productive to occupy their time and interest solo-camp lower level group content for hours on end. This community needs Velious.

[dontbanpls]

blue server seems like it is zero fun

[raeanin]

Welcome to the world of OVER 9000! bored L60s. 4 years after Kunark release LGuk should be a mostly empty wasteland because everybody's moved on to better content. Here LGuk is a mostly empty wasteland because overpowered individual toons with nothing more productive to occupy their time and interest solo-camp lower level group content for hours on end. This community needs Velious.

I can understand that. I would hope some people might let a group take their place if they wanted though.

To be honest, it really bums me out that I might never be able to get a fbss on here. It's one of the items I coveted the most when I first started(release day 99) and was beyond stoked to finally get after so many weeks of camping frenzied. And while I've managed to make enough cash to get some good weapons and armor, stuff like fbss and fungi are so overpriced for the amount of them flooding the server, I'll be long past their usefulness before I ever have enough plat to buy one, thus camping being the only option.

Ohh well, maybe I'll just camp GBS or fishbone and hope to get lucky and make some quick plat = )

[Argh]

To be honest, it really bums me out that I might never be able to get a fbss on here.

That's probably the most overdramatic you could possibly be. Frenzy is empty a lot, and lguk is filled with groups of 30s and 40s most of the time.

[dontbanpls]

That's probably the most overdramatic you could possibly be. Frenzy is empty a lot, and lguk is filled with groups of 30s and 40s most of the time.

that was probably the most over dramatic response you could have typed

[raeanin]

That's probably the most overdramatic you could possibly be. Frenzy is empty a lot, and lguk is filled with groups of 30s and 40s most of the time.

I hope that is the case. Some of my fondest memories of classic was my time spent in lguk(and solb, and seb).

[triad]

I can understand that. I would hope some people might let a group take their place if they wanted though.

To be honest, it really bums me out that I might never be able to get a fbss on here. It's one of the items I coveted the most when I first started(release day 99) and was beyond stoked to finally get after so many weeks of camping frenzied. And while I've managed to make enough cash to get some good weapons and armor, stuff like fbss and fungi are so overpriced for the amount of them flooding the server, I'll be long past their usefulness before I ever have enough plat to buy one, thus camping being the only option.

Ohh well, maybe I'll just camp GBS or fishbone and hope to get lucky and make some quick plat = )

if theres no one on the list you can request it and have a group near by killing until they leave then its your groups camp

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

The other day I got run out of sk while farming centaurs for black pearls so I decided to put myself on the magician list in najena to get some focus items.

Beats the hell out of Lego pad farming!!!

[Ambrouis]

if theres no one on the list you can request it and have a group near by killing until they leave then its your groups camp

Thats kinda the point of my original question =/ this will not work!

[Argh]

Thats kinda the point of my original question =/ this will not work!

It will if you're next.

[nurabsal66]

Like I said,

If the camp holder is handing off the camp, you need to be there when he hands off. If you aren't, there is no hand off.

If current camp holder forfeits the camp before a hand off is made, the camp become FFA / FTE placeholder.

I was grouped with the monk who had the camp before me; he was helping my rogue level up. When he left, he said, "do you want the camp?" "Sure," I replied.

Fast forward 30 minutes. Greenleafy of Asgard (Ambrouis) and an anonymous, guild- less, necromancer named Ssas show up. They proceeded to tell me how I am in their camp etc...I had no clue what they were talking about. If they used a few social skills instead of being rude, I probably would have just gave the camp up and moved on. However, he came at me guns blazing with threats of petitioning etc.

After Greenleafy petitioned, a guide arrived and gave him the news he didn't want to hear. So, he came to the forums to create a stink over absolutely nothing.

Who is this guy demanding I leave my camp??? /mind blown

[fastboy21]

Welcome to the world of OVER 9000! bored L60s. 4 years after Kunark release LGuk should be a mostly empty wasteland because everybody's moved on to better content. Here LGuk is a mostly empty wasteland because overpowered individual toons with nothing more productive to occupy their time and interest solo-camp lower level group content for hours on end. This community needs Velious.

Not exactly. You make a point about Velious late release affecting the server, but it isn't the cause of all problems.

Even if Velious had been released three years ago FBSS would still be perma-camped in lguk...just like it was on live.

Its a good item that basicly every non-planar melee toon on the server would use. It can be solo'd at pre-lvl 50 by some classes and sells for 8k-ish. It was perma-camped in classic, kunark, and will continue to be in velious. The price may drop a bit as a couple new haste items enter the game, but it will hardly become worthless.

Every woe of p99 is not the fault of the timeline, somethings are just authentic EQ problems. Lguk isn't over camped. The Frenzy and AM camps are because they are lower lvl content that drop needed items (i.e. have value even if you wouldn't use them yourself). Most of Lguk is open for exp groups, and there are a few PUG groups running there on most nights. Most of the tower nameds are not perma-camped, with the slight exception of sage sometimes and ASS/SUP. The zone, in other words, is being appropriately farmed for the era of the game we are in...and it will not change with velious release.

[kaev]

Not exactly. You make a point about Velious late release affecting the server, but it isn't the cause of all problems.

Even if Velious had been released three years ago FBSS would still be perma-camped in lguk...just like it was on live.

Its a good item that basicly every non-planar melee toon on the server would use. It can be solo'd at pre-lvl 50 by some classes and sells for 8k-ish.

Every woe of p99 is not the fault of the timeline, somethings are just authentic EQ problems. Lguk isn't over camped. The Frenzy and AM camps are because they are lower lvl content that drop needed items (i.e. have value even if you wouldn't use them yourself).

:shrug:
My experience on live was that when Velious content opened up it became possible for a casual scrub to get into frenzy camp without having to wait 6 or 8 hours for a spot. After items like Silver Chitin Handwraps (or whatever the hell it was) started flowing in and devaluing the FBSS frenzy was semi-routinely open for extended periods of time during low pop hours on the server.

[loramin]

To be honest, it really bums me out that I might never be able to get a fbss on here.

Stop. Stop right there. I'm diagnosing you with forum-itis:

forumitis - a condition that affects new Project 1999 players who make the mistake of reading the forums before spending enough time in Norath first. The toxicity in the Project 1999 forums can cause the afflicted to believe horrible/false things about the server, unlike more experienced players who (by playing the game) have hardened their immune systems against this toxicity.

My prescription: stop reading the forum. Go play the game, and when you get to 60, or at least the 50's, then come back here and try to read without letting the negativity on these forums affect you.

I doubt you'll follow that advice, but I guarantee you will have more fun if you do.

[Messie]

^ amen !

[Waedawen]

God this fucking thread again. No matter how many times it gets brought up some brilliant clairvoyant is there to show us all the light with some fantastic new idea that has never been thought of before.

Camps are Camp Holder + 1 for a reason. It makes the most sense for legitimate competition combined with not being a selfish asshole, it's the easiest to track, and it's the easiest to hold for accountability.

The real, real variable here is the fact that GM's are involved in player affairs here much more than they ever, ever were on the Sony servers. The "Four Years of Kunark" argument doesn't hold any water when you're aware of the downright debauchery that was going on during the first couple months of Classic and the Summer of 2010.

The worst of the worst neckbeards influenced server culture very, very, very quickly and pervasively. As with any private server. Most people are very reasonable and the camp holder + 1 rule really is the best of both worlds, but every so often you get someone who simply thinks the rules don't apply to them. And you you can't train these people without fear of retribution. "Comedy" in the truest definition of the word.

[fastboy21]

I can understand that. I would hope some people might let a group take their place if they wanted though.

To be honest, it really bums me out that I might never be able to get a fbss on here. It's one of the items I coveted the most when I first started(release day 99) and was beyond stoked to finally get after so many weeks of camping frenzied. And while I've managed to make enough cash to get some good weapons and armor, stuff like fbss and fungi are so overpriced for the amount of them flooding the server, I'll be long past their usefulness before I ever have enough plat to buy one, thus camping being the only option.

Ohh well, maybe I'll just camp GBS or fishbone and hope to get lucky and make some quick plat = )

Yeah...the other 4k people playing here who have FBSSs and Fungis are so special. If you want to get an FBSS and you can't get one you are doing something wrong. Its true that you will most likely find it easier to save the pp and buy one than to farm it yourself. Thats how EQ goes with some items. If you really feel like its more fun to get to the item to drop yourself then bring some friends a few nights to LGUK while leveling and try to get the camp...then hope you win the roll or your friends give it to you.

Nothing is stopping you from getting one.

(and, don't get frustrated and cut a corner with RMT---they will ban you and give you a real problem to cry about :p )

[Colgate]

people say everquest pvp is stupid and then have no issues with shit like this

lol

[azeth]

Your agreement for hand off has to be with the current camp holder. 2nd in line is not going to guarantee you anything, because when the camp is handed off, the new camp holder is not required to carry forward the same list.

did not know this.

so basically lists should be as long as 1 person in line. beyond that you're guaranteed nothing

[maskedmelon]

did not know this.

so basically lists should be as long as 1 person in line. beyond that you're guaranteed nothing

Well, it doesn't hurt to maintain one if you are a camp holder and if anything doing so encourages (though does not require) the next person to carry it forward. A sort of community policing is invoked wherein players who regularly do not follow lists, or seek to undermine community standards develop reputations and receive fewer camp handoffs as a result. Good or bad, social interaction and community standards is... Classic ^^

[Ambrouis]

I was grouped with the monk who had the camp before me; he was helping my rogue level up. When he left, he said, "do you want the camp?" "Sure," I replied.

Fast forward 30 minutes. Greenleafy of Asgard (Ambrouis) and an anonymous, guild- less, necromancer named Ssas show up. They proceeded to tell me how I am in their camp etc...I had no clue what they were talking about. If they used a few social skills instead of being rude, I probably would have just gave the camp up and moved on. However, he came at me guns blazing with threats of petitioning etc.

After Greenleafy petitioned, a guide arrived and gave him the news he didn't want to hear. So, he came to the forums to create a stink over absolutely nothing.

Who is this guy demanding I leave my camp??? /mind blown

I don't mind you posting your side, freedom of speech, just don't make s**t up though. I never once said it was my camp, I just kindly let you know that there was a list and you cut the list off.
I just wanted clarity in rules because without it, you were clearly in violation of it.
Knowing that lists are completely worthless, I will not wait for a camp while within 30 seconds of it, I'll just sit at it and as soon as the active camper leaves, I'll take it. /shrug
Its ok you cut 2 others off now that the rules are clarified; however, don't expect a list to help you... no, anyone, in the future =x

[fastboy21]

basically, can't the person holding the camp hand it off to whomever they want?

or is there a situation where the camp holder would be forced by the rules to hand over the camp to someone.

example:

lets say I am holding frenzy camp. Player X enters camp and asks to be next in line. I tell player X that he isn't next in line.



Am I required to tell player X who the next player Y in line is?

Does there even have to be a player Y? Is it enough, according to the rules, to simply tell him that he is not next in line.

If I am holding the camp looking for a lore item am I obligated to give up the camp when the item drops? I.E. Can I hold the camp until player Y arrives? Or, can I corpse the lore item and continue doing the camp?

Can I hand the camp to a guildmate who hasn't been in zone despite the fact that player X (I never told him he was next when he asked) is sitting in the room?

If I had told player X or Y that he was next in line, can I change my mind and give the camp to someone else?



I rarely find myself in these situations, but I would like to know what the rules are since it appears that there is some room for rule lawyering if someone wants to do so.

[azeth]

Am I required to tell player X who the next player Y in line is?

Yes, due to my response to question #2 below. You must identify the person in line for proof that they exist. Otherwise (read Q2 & A2 first) you can just lie and say there's a line for the purpose of screwing the guy that arrived & asked.


Does there even have to be a player Y? Is it enough, according to the rules, to simply tell him that he is not next in line.

If there is no line when he arrives, he is entitled to the camp when you leave.


If I am holding the camp looking for a lore item am I obligated to give up the camp when the item drops? I.E. Can I hold the camp until player Y arrives? Or, can I corpse the lore item and continue doing the camp?

If there is a player waiting, you cannot corpse a lore item to continue camping.


Can I hand the camp to a guildmate who hasn't been in zone despite the fact that player X (I never told him he was next when he asked) is sitting in the room?

The player you are giving the camp to only has to be at the camp when the PH/Named dies. And there is a grace period of minutes.


If I had told player X or Y that he was next in line, can I change my mind and give the camp to someone else?.

No you may not.

[Halius]

Am I required to tell player X who the next player Y in line is?

According to the GMs yes. As stated in this post: 2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately.


Does there even have to be a player Y? Is it enough, according to the rules, to simply tell him that he is not next in line.

Also according to the GMs post, no it is not enough. You must reveal who the camp holder is so that you cannot change it on the fly. If that person did not actually ask you who is next, then yes you can give it to whoever you want. But if they ask then you must tell them who is next otherwise the "next" person has no valid claim. From the post: This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs.


If I am holding the camp looking for a lore item am I obligated to give up the camp when the item drops? I.E. Can I hold the camp until player Y arrives? Or, can I corpse the lore item and continue doing the camp?

From the GM post: If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

And technically you CAN hold the camp until player Y arrives, but player Y has to arrive around the time that the placeholder spawns. Which I suppose the amount of time allowed is up for debate but I always assumed it was 2-5 minutes. From GM post: 1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so.


Can I hand the camp to a guildmate who hasn't been in zone despite the fact that player X (I never told him he was next when he asked) is sitting in the room?

See above, you HAVE to reveal who the next person is if they ask. If your guildmate was who you revealed that is fine, however, if you told the person someone else and then the guildmate shows up, they have no claim and it is FTE.


If I had told player X or Y that he was next in line, can I change my mind and give the camp to someone else?


Again, see above. You can't change who it is after you have revealed it.


Now obviously I have not been in these situations as I am only level 35 so take my opinion for what you will, but the GM post seems pretty clear cut to me, don't understand how it can be misinterpreted.

[Toodles]

Ok, here's the story. I was 2nd in line for frenzy so I went to lord and cleared everything from him to frenzy and back. The previous person at frenzy had already stated who he was handing the camp off to; however, when I cleared back for the 8th time, there was a cleric, metifo of divinity, sitting at the camp, I then sat there waiting for the monk to come back and as soon as the first mob spawned, he engaged. I let him know there was a list and he was cutting. After many tells, and a little while later, Moregan responded... and asked the cutter if there was a list /boggle

I was just reading this thread for the fun of it (as we do..) and then noticed you mentioned Metifo.

Not often do I mention people specifically on the forums however I(amongst others I know) have unfortunately run into questionable tactics and behavior by Metifo.

So it's likely whatever happened, he was in the wrong :)

[Koota]

Makes total sense, Toodles.

[nurabsal66]

I was just reading this thread for the fun of it (as we do..) and then noticed you mentioned Metifo.

Not often do I mention people specifically on the forums however I(amongst others I know) have unfortunately run into questionable tactics and behavior by Metifo.

So it's likely whatever happened, he was in the wrong :)

You had to justify your reasoning for reading the thread? Questionable...

You didn't fabricate any stories of his wicked evilness? I'm disappointed. You're letting the readers down. =(

You're not a friend/guildy of Greenleafy of Asgard. Surely you're not a buddy trying to slander someone because you were asked to post here. Nah, of course not...