Cleric race

[Mordyth]

So I've been keen about a cleric for a while and would like to put some time into it during my stay in p1999. My question is... what class?
On the basic check through, I'd say halfling for hide and sneak with XP bonus. Only thing is, I'm not a great fan of halflings. My second opinion then would be HE, but is the low str worth being concerned about?
What do people play? What are the upside/downsides of them?
Thanks for any advice :)

[Ele]

high elf is seriously the worst race in game

On a more serious note:

Do you like short races?
Dwaves, Halflings, Gnomes, and Dark Elves (some what).

Do you want awesome functional abilities no other race has?
Hide is limited to Dark Elves and Halflings. Not nearly as OP as it used to be but still good for AFKs in some areas.

Sneak is what puts Halflings over the top for me. It allows you to use merchants, explore and gain access to quests that the other races can not do without a lot of faction work or having to use invis/calm.

Dwarves have innate + magic resist, if you plan to PVP it could help.

Do you like to use wall scoping to see what is on the other side?
Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings get this ability without the need for shrink. Dark Elves can do it to some extent.

Do you want to wear robes?
Kunark (http://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky)and Velious (http://wiki.project1999.com/Sal%60Varae%60s_Robe_of_Darkness)best in slot pieces for clerics are both robes. Leaving Dwarves and Halflings in the cold. Plus there are some other nice looking robes clerics can wear for fashion purposes.

Do you want cool clickies?
Erudites/Humans get some cool clickie item quests in Paineel.
Gnomes can tinker some cool stuff up.
Dark Elves have access to a snare necklace.
Dwarves get a summon beer clickie in Velious.

Do you want to wear awesome racial/deity armor?
Dwarves and Gnomes (Brell). To a lesser extent Dark Elves (Innoruuk).


Do you mind being an evil race?
Dark Elves, some human, gnome, erudite deity combos


Do you want 5% xp bonus?
Halflings! Although once you hit 60 it becomes moot.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Ele already covered most of the pros/cons. My attitude is always that the most important factor is what you think looks the coolest.. Race advantages/disadvantages be damned.

[Mordyth]

On a more serious note:

Do you like short races?
Dwaves, Halflings, Gnomes, and Dark Elves (some what).

Do you want awesome functional abilities no other race has?
Hide is limited to Dark Elves and Halflings. Not nearly as OP as it used to be but still good for AFKs in some areas.

Sneak is what puts Halflings over the top for me. It allows you to use merchants, explore and gain access to quests that the other races can not do without a lot of faction work or having to use invis/calm.

Dwarves have innate + magic resist, if you plan to PVP it could help.

Do you like to use wall scoping to see what is on the other side?
Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings get this ability without the need for shrink. Dark Elves can do it to some extent.

Do you want to wear robes?
Kunark (http://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky)and Velious (http://wiki.project1999.com/Sal%60Varae%60s_Robe_of_Darkness)best in slot pieces for clerics are both robes. Leaving Dwarves and Halflings in the cold. Plus there are some other nice looking robes clerics can wear for fashion purposes.

Do you want cool clickies?
Erudites/Humans get some cool clickie item quests in Paineel.
Gnomes can tinker some cool stuff up.
Dark Elves have access to a snare necklace.
Dwarves get a summon beer clickie in Velious.

Do you want to wear awesome racial/deity armor?
Dwarves and Gnomes (Brell). To a lesser extent Dark Elves (Innoruuk).


Do you mind being an evil race?
Dark Elves, some human, gnome, erudite deity combos


Do you want 5% xp bonus?
Halflings! Although once you hit 60 it becomes moot.

WOW! Thats an amazing analysis!
May have tipped the favour back towards halflings.. or DE.

Can I ask, without sounding to noobish, whats wrong with HE apart from their dismal strength?

[BlkCamel]

WOW! Thats an amazing analysis!
May have tipped the favour back towards halflings.. or DE.

Can I ask, without sounding to noobish, whats wrong with HE apart from their dismal strength?

There is nothing unique about them.

[Mordyth]

There is nothing unique about them.

Does the high wis count for anything?

[BlkCamel]

Does the high wis count for anything?

Thats about it, but its not a big enough advantage over other cleric races with the benefits/skills they get.

[Mordyth]

Ok, good to know thanks! Can you tell I have no experience making a class other than a caster or monk? lol

Halfling cleric coming right up!

[Ele]

Does the high wis count for anything?

The wisdom difference won't really start having a big impact mana pool wise until around level 30, when wisdom starts to give good returns. By then though and towards 50-60, you'll have plenty of +wis options in gear and jewelry that any race can have decent wisdom even if you don't drop points into on creation.



Can I ask, without sounding to noobish, whats wrong with HE apart from their dismal strength?

Their longshanks and pale skin are ugly! They forgot what it was like to farm and live in the earth and turn to their books instead. bah!

And the wings when Male high elves wear plate, ugly!

and the awful Velious custom helms, cat hats and cone heads, barf.

[kaev]

Human Cleric is quite reasonably solid, even if it's not a popular minmax choice. Human Cultural Plate is far cheaper than the elf & dwarf stuff (at some point after Velious releases the elf and dwarf stuff will become much more reasonable in price, Ele can give the approx timeline). There are three dieties that have +wis as primary stat on Imbued Field Plate: Karana (grey-green, other players often mistake my cleric's armor for Donal's despite the lack of blue tint), Rodcet Nife (can't recall the tint, but I do recall it looked good on the guy I made it for tho), & Erollisi Marr (pink tint, looks good on fem toons.)

This is not an advertisement, I quit making & selling armor some time ago. The guys doing it now seem to sell it a bit cheaper than I did.

[Mordyth]

Human Cleric is quite reasonably solid, even if it's not a popular minmax choice.

I detest minmax character choice. I rolled an Erudite wiz because I remember being jealous of my friend with one in live and I rolled an iksar monk because I never toured Cabilis and liked the idea of regen as well. I made and deleted a human cleric based solely because of the problems ive had getting jumped by mobs while medding on my wizard. If there was an RP server, like there was on live, i'd totally have a human there because who'd want to RP a halfling cleric? lol

Still, human cleric appeals to me. I might just remake him and play the halfling as well until i decide.

Once again, your input is appreciated

[wycca]

Some points overlooked -

Gnome - looking thru walls is easiest on gnome (far superior than dwarf/halfling imo)

Brells clerics - Dwarf/Gnome - Awesome armor (if you have plat) and eventually a summon beer neck!

Innoruuk clerics - Dark Elf/Human - Snare neck (Ele forgot the human) - its a sk/nec low lvl spell, so doesnt last super long, but can be neat

High Elf clerics - best cha, useful if you like to lull around dungeons

Strength - This is a concern as a plate class. Most clr str is horrid tho, sorta leaves you with dwarf and human as the better options.

Wisdom - This is useful as it allows you to faster/easier swap to resist or hp gear.

Cultural -
Brell/Dwarf - Gnome/Dwarf usable, good stuff! Expensive!
Tunare/High Elf - Has some wis, useful in a couple of slots, has some MR
Human plate - some great stats, expensive! (Gold version stuff i think)
Human imbued plate -
Innoruuk is middling wis, very expensive
Emarr is simply outstanding imo - its super cheap and gives a large chunk of wis, plus some cha, minor amount of str, pink in color tho
Karana - large chunk of wis, dex, small amount of str
Rodcet Nife - large chunk of wis, some sta, minor amount of cha
Rallos Zek - no wis, great on str/sta
Bertox - too expensive

Sneak - amazing, can bank and quest stuff so much easier
Hide - useful for afking in some areas
Robes - Only 3-4 robes available, most you won't see, not a huge consideration imo

Tunare worshiper - There is a special quest for Tunare worshipers in Velious - cleric I think is a wrist.

Erudite/Humans - Aside from a few super cheap cultural options depending on deity, you get access to the Erudite Terror/Dread/Fright quests as a human if you faction. These are some pretty neat pieces.

Melee stats - If you want str/sta/etc - dwarf by far, good wis too. Barrell roll graphic.

Short races - Some issues with steps and ledges. This is worse in Velious, but also applies to some areas now, a few places in Kunark/VP come to mind.

Overall Good Options -
Brell Dwarf - melee stats & good wis (other perks above)
Tunare High Elf - highest wis & cha, tunare quest
Halfling - fastest leveling & sneak/hide
Inny Human - snare neck, decent all around stats, non-kos in tons of places, erudite quests
Emarr/Rodcet Nife Human - decent all around status, great armor set (9.5k for all non-jewelry pieces) - i personally prefer the cha on emarr greatly

Erudite - decent stats, just not sure theres a stand-out reason to play
Gnomes - worst wis/str, looks cool as heck, xray vision is great, tinkering, but not great when compared to any race
Other Deities not listed - nothing really stands out for them

[Sage Truthbearer]

Their longshanks and pale skin are ugly! They forgot what it was like to farm and live in the earth and turn to their books instead. bah!

And the wings when Male high elves wear plate, ugly!

and the awful Velious custom helms, cat hats and cone heads, barf.

Naw, naw, naw.. Cat helmets are freakin' awesome. Do not listen to this tomfoolery.

[Mordyth]

Some points overlooked -

Gnome - looking thru walls is easiest on gnome (far superior than dwarf/halfling imo)

Brells clerics - Dwarf/Gnome - Awesome armor (if you have plat) and eventually a summon beer neck!

Innoruuk clerics - Dark Elf/Human - Snare neck (Ele forgot the human) - its a sk/nec low lvl spell, so doesnt last super long, but can be neat

High Elf clerics - best cha, useful if you like to lull around dungeons

Strength - This is a concern as a plate class. Most clr str is horrid tho, sorta leaves you with dwarf and human as the better options.

Wisdom - This is useful as it allows you to faster/easier swap to resist or hp gear.

Cultural -
Brell/Dwarf - Gnome/Dwarf usable, good stuff! Expensive!
Tunare/High Elf - Has some wis, useful in a couple of slots, has some MR
Human plate - some great stats, expensive! (Gold version stuff i think)
Human imbued plate -
Innoruuk is middling wis, very expensive
Emarr is simply outstanding imo - its super cheap and gives a large chunk of wis, plus some cha, minor amount of str, pink in color tho
Karana - large chunk of wis, dex, small amount of str
Rodcet Nife - large chunk of wis, some sta, minor amount of cha
Rallos Zek - no wis, great on str/sta
Bertox - too expensive

Sneak - amazing, can bank and quest stuff so much easier
Hide - useful for afking in some areas
Robes - Only 3-4 robes available, most you won't see, not a huge consideration imo

Tunare worshiper - There is a special quest for Tunare worshipers in Velious - cleric I think is a wrist.

Erudite/Humans - Aside from a few super cheap cultural options depending on deity, you get access to the Erudite Terror/Dread/Fright quests as a human if you faction. These are some pretty neat pieces.

Melee stats - If you want str/sta/etc - dwarf by far, good wis too. Barrell roll graphic.

Short races - Some issues with steps and ledges. This is worse in Velious, but also applies to some areas now, a few places in Kunark/VP come to mind.

Overall Good Options -
Brell Dwarf - melee stats & good wis (other perks above)
Tunare High Elf - highest wis & cha, tunare quest
Halfling - fastest leveling & sneak/hide
Inny Human - snare neck, decent all around stats, non-kos in tons of places, erudite quests
Emarr/Rodcet Nife Human - decent all around status, great armor set (9.5k for all non-jewelry pieces) - i personally prefer the cha on emarr greatly

Erudite - decent stats, just not sure theres a stand-out reason to play
Gnomes - worst wis/str, looks cool as heck, xray vision is great, tinkering, but not great when compared to any race
Other Deities not listed - nothing really stands out for them

<mind overload>

More to consider. Confirming halfling I'm 90% sure. I'm not sure this will ever get to 60, but I can never discount the option of loving it and not doing anything else ever :p

[Mentathiel]

I play a dark elf cleric of Innoruuk; everyone hates me and that just makes me stronger...

[ArumTP]

Tunare High elf for only http://wiki.project1999.com/The_Four_Idols
Brell Dwarf for only innate +5 MR
Halfling for sneak (I know of someone who has a highly geared 60 dwarf cleric, remake as now a highly geared halfling for just for the sneak) Be a brell for the dwarf armor now.
Human only Bertoxx or Mith Mar for the Imbue jewelry, http://wiki.project1999.com/Terror_Forged_Mask, and http://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_the_Tundra_Walker
Gnome Bertoxx for the imbue jewelry.

Dark elf is overrated. The snare neck is overrated, and also nobody uses any of their "special neck" necklaces.
Anything an erudite can use a human can use with faction work.
All culture armor will be shit canned come velious. Dwarf is pretty good now as is High elf. Human is meh depending on the deity. But again, none of the armors matter in velious.

[kaev]

All culture armor will be shit canned come velious. Dwarf is pretty good now as is High elf. Human is meh depending on the deity. But again, none of the armors matter in velious.

That totally depends on how you're playing. For a somewhat casual approach to levelling the ability to start out with 170-ish wis, solid AC, and decent HP on an "affordable" twink was very nice. Hero Bracers, plat fire rings, plat ruby veil, adamantite epaulets, cracked darkwood shield, springwood club, Forest Loops, and the rest Imbued Field Plate (Karana) worked out great and that will still be true come Velious.

Who really cares that wis is not very efficient for boosting mana at low level? 170 wis is GREAT for getting skill-ups quickly and the extra mana certainly didn't hurt when I misjudged how tough a mob would be to solo or I was grouped with people learning to play their classes (or learning to play EQ at all) and the situation threatened to go pear-shaped. That gear is plenty good enough to wear until you're getting better stuff from drops&quests, the +str pieces are nice for getting around while carrying a bit of coin and loot without being overweight until you replace the plate with better dropped/quested pieces that also aren't so damned heavy.

Sure, if you're planning to buy PL & Chardok AE to get 60 as fast as possible go ahead and consider only what you'll be using after six-months of heavy raiding. If you're actually planning to play the character through the levelling you might want to look at it a bit differently tho.

[Mordyth]

Considering that my main hasnt yet hit 60, and the character I made to replace my main isnt 60 yet either, I'm just enjoying the journey (thats the saying right?)

My new cleric will be for fun and probably beat my current main to 60, but that'll take ages. There is no rush

[ArumTP]

Full suit of dwarf stuff will run 50k
High elf isn't even sold anymore due to prohibitive costs in making it.
Human suit costs like 9k with the cheap deities.

If you want to be cheap you slum with a mix of drops(seb scale cheap and good), then go purple planar.

[wycca]

100% Confirmed that Mask of the Tundra Walker will never be on P99. Shame, but don't go making a cleric based on that at all.

[Raev]

It always amazes me that bards and rogues actually want high elf illusion masks. High elves look terrible. 2nd worst model behind ogres imo.

[crossplay]

100% Confirmed that Mask of the Tundra Walker will never be on P99. Shame, but don't go making a cleric based on that at all.

Proof that it won't exist here?

[wycca]

Proof that it won't exist here?

Conversation with Alunova.

[Mentathiel]

It always amazes me that bards and rogues actually want high elf illusion masks. High elves look terrible. 2nd worst model behind ogres imo.
I suppose DE rogues need it for the faction, since it's either that or Erudite when they want to go into the good-aligned cities. It gets better in Velious (they get halfling, gnome and barbarian as options), but the choices are not great before then...

[Celatus]

I prefer high elf clerics the higher wis lets you take more mana/hp gear. Either way its not going to be game breaking. High elf males are horrid the females are not so bad. If only dwarves could wear robes!

[Sage Truthbearer]

High Elves look sweet, imo. In fact, most of the things complained about in this thread (the wings and plateskirt) are styles that I like and reasons my Pally is one.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is:

http://media.tumblr.com/3aa531f2d37a6fbf141c2936b0e1ab91/tumblr_inline_mjkw9sQHdX1qz4rgp.jpg

[Lifebar]

If I had it all to do over again, i would have gone HFL for the racial hide/sneak. All f the other racal differences are pretty small imo.

[Thulack]

It always amazes me that bards and rogues actually want high elf illusion masks. High elves look terrible. 2nd worst model behind ogres imo.

High Elves look good in Plate in my view. Same as Wood Elves. Dwarf gets my vote for cleric race though :)

[Ele]

If I had it all to do over again, i would have gone HFL for the racial hide/sneak. All f the other racal differences are pretty small imo.

The light has been seen!

[wycca]

Halfling - https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9752/halfing.jpg

Gnome wins tho - https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5003/gnomeb.jpg

[nina]

So you guys think I should delete my 16 cleric and reroll a halfling? Thats rough

[pink grapefruit]

I went high elf. 25 points into sta (75 extra hp at 60) to bring it to 95 and still start with 110 wisdom. Dwarves can start with 100 sta and 118 wis which is pretty cool too, but they are the ugliest of all races so... :/

With cleric it's not a huge deal either way, imo. Can be kinda hard starting out as gnome with such low wisdom, but by the time you hit 60 it shouldn't really matter. Difference between 102 and 118 base wis kinda big if you're not twinked, though.

Combined base sta/wis by race:
Dwarf: 188
High elf: 175
Halfling: 170
Erudite: 168
Human: 165
Dark elf: 163
Gnome: 152

plus the 30 creation points.

[Jmcwrestling]

I went erudite solely for the looks and I have seen 1 erudite cleric so there's the unique factor. If you play smart, you will be fine on mana (just let that monk pulling 15 mobs a minute know that you're in charge!). Granted I do sometimes wish I would've went human just because they look better in plate :)

Pretty much, whatever head your going to enjoy looking at the back of for your healing career is what you should pick.

[kaev]

So you guys think I should delete my 16 cleric and reroll a halfling? Thats rough

Play what you want. All the minmaxiers in the world can't make or break your enjoyment of playing your character. It's your character, not theirs.

[webrunner5]

Clerics never get a inviz spel,l so the Hide Sneak thingy is a plus. But I alwyus pretty much put a LOT of satrenght on them for starting points because you can wear some pretty heavy stuff if you got the plat. And it sucks to be encumbered all the time and can't really loot anything to help pay for spells.

It helps to have good Melee type gear so you can live when you get hit, and you do often. And you can be a Battle Cleric for sure in the lower levels with good Plate Type Gear. :D

I say just go with a class you like the looks of. It is a LONG way to get to 60, and you are the one that is going to be playing it, so enjoy the toon for the look, not a min max thing. This game is Suppose to be fun lol. :p

[Xaanka]

Red server perspective:

#1 - Innoruk Human (solid stats, access to see invis helm, access to snare neck, access to undead fear neck)

#2 Cazic-Thule Erudite (solid wis but horrible str, access to see invis helm and undead fear neck)

#3&4 tied Gnome (wall-looking) Halfling (hide/sneak, ok wall looking) *switch these with #1 and #2 position if 10-15k plat doesn't mean anything to you.*

#5 Dark Elf (Hide, snare neck)

#6/7 tied Dwarf/High Elf (brings nothing but stats to the table, which won't matter in velious)

Really the only thing that matters is the see invis helm, everything else is somewhere between non-factor or icing on the cake. If you're an established player with 15k to drop on a bracer of the hidden, halfling and gnome are the best. If you're a new player or just not rich, your life will be a LOT easier going innoruk human or erudite.

Personally I've rolled a few clerics and I've settled on Erudite. Human would be a bit more min/maxy but I like the unique factor. Only regret is the 70 strength.

[Jimjam]

innoruuk human doesn't get undead fear neck, but can wear the erudite regular fear faceplate

[Xaanka]

thanks, I wasn't 100% sure on that one. Innoruk human still slightly edges out Erudite in my books simply because you have enough starting strength to wear plate, but it's more an apples to oranges deal.

[Ando]

I would argue STA on a cleric is relatively useless. If you're in full plate I would say STR is more useful. Every cleric I've ever played has been perpetually overencumbered.

[Bindolaf]

There is only one race appropriate for a Cleric, of course:

- Short, stubby, fierce... check.
- Grumpy, bark orders, /ragequit... check.
- Greedy, consider all loot to be their loot... check.
- Look AWESOME in Plate (and have the STR to carry it)... check.
- Purple makes them look cool (whereas DE look like grapes, HE look... LOL)... check.

Go Dwarves!

Bindolaf Werebane
Cleric of Brell Serilis

[Ando]

You forgot the most important part of being a Dwarf.

[Bindolaf]

Oh man!

Alcohol Tolerance... check!!

[Charlo]

I've really been wanting to start a cleric on blue. I have read through all these priest forums, and this has been a fantastic thread as far as helping decide on race for my new cleric (likely halfling btw). However, I just don't see much information on starting point allocation and ideally where to put them. Does it matter? I'm not necessarily trying to min/max... but I want to get the best value for their placement with an eye toward end game raid content.

[Mentathiel]

Wisdom is what you want for mana and tradeskills, the stat most people agree that a cleric needs. Put every point you can into this...

Strength is useful for two reasons; it affects how hard you hit and how much you can carry. Before long, you will hopefully be in a group and doing more healing than melee, but you will find yourself in melee at first, so hitting a little harder is not a bad thing. Carrying capacity is the main reason for strength, because clerics wear plate and plate is very heavy. Go over your carrying capacity (which is very easy if you have heavy armour on) and you will not be able to move as fast, you will get hit more often and for more damage. High strength means wearing better armour and carrying more loot back to the vendors (important because plate is also expensive) at the end of a trip.

Stamina gives you a few more hit-points, but lots of mana means better AC (avoid losing hp) and healing and damaging spells which make fights shorter. If you are losing hit-points, something went wrong...

Agility is (probably) a useless stat unless it drops below 75 (not an issue for halflings) because under 75 apparently hurts your AC. Dexterity makes weapons proc a little more, but by the time you have weapons that proc and a high enough dex to make a difference, you should not be in melee at all. Intelligence is for robed casters and bards, not you. Charisma makes NPCs (i.e. vendors) like you a tiny bit more, but high wisdom and lots of mana makes players like you a lot more.

[Danth]

Charisma affects the critical resist rate on the lull spell line. While not generally an issue, some individual Cleric players may elect to build a charisma set for special use. It is not a stat to put points in at creation. As a rule, you won't go wrong by maxing wisdom then allocating the 5 left over points into either Strength or Stamina.

Danth

[Mentathiel]

You make a good point; Halfling charisma is lower even than dark elves...

Usually, you want 25 points (everything you can add) into Wisdom no matter your race, then the rest in strength or stamina, but a halfling might consider putting that last 5 into charisma for lulling. I wouldn't personally, but it's up to you...

[Charlo]

Usually, you want 25 points (everything you can add) into Wisdom no matter your race, then the rest in strength or stamina, but a halfling might consider putting that last 5 into charisma for lulling. I wouldn't personally, but it's up to you...

This makes sense, but some clerics I've spoken with have told me that with gear they are easily over the soft/hard caps for WIS with gear after allocating all those points to wisdom during creation. I'm not sure what the actual soft/hard caps are. So is there a certain point where your wasting points with WIS when it can be used for str/sta/agi/cha?

Thank you for these responses... trying to get as much feedback as possible to make an informed decision.

[kaev]

This makes sense, but some clerics I've spoken with have told me that with gear they are easily over the soft/hard caps for WIS with gear after allocating all those points to wisdom during creation. I'm not sure what the actual soft/hard caps are. So is there a certain point where your wasting points with WIS when it can be used for str/sta/agi/cha?

Thank you for these responses... trying to get as much feedback as possible to make an informed decision.

200 is the "soft cap" for wis. From 201 to 255 you get ~ 1/2 (iirc) the mana increase you get up to 200. 255 is the highest possible value (hard cap) for all attributes.

Deep mana pool is worthwhile on cleric at all levels because shit happens. Unless you're heavily twinked and/or PL'd to L50+ you'll get plenty of value while you level out of those 25 into wis. Once you're getting the good gear you can go for +mana items again (just like under L20) to get the best mana pool available to you. If you raid in velious your mana pool depth will be one of the factors determining how long you can keep going in the CH chain on those long fights.

[Mentathiel]

Wisdom is king for a cleric; even if you hit the soft cap early, that just means that you can buy interesting items rather than more wisdom gear. If you can hit 255 with buffs and jewelry, you can then look at charisma gear (very cheap compared to other stats, but often made for enchanters more than clerics) or stamina (more hit-points) or even clicky items with interesting effects such as roots and stuns (having a cleric spell on a clicky frees up another spell slot) or just higher AC. It also frees you up to take resist gear, which protects you from annoying effects like getting rooted when you are trying to flee for the zone line...

However you look at it, 25 points of wisdom is useful. Even if you want to get another stat up, you'll want wisdom and a secondary stat. A high starting wisdom means that you have lots of mana late in the game and can have specific gear to handle specific needs.

[Charlo]

Thanks for the replies... it makes perfect sense to me now.

[williestargell]

I didnt read every post in the thread, but have noticed some lack of listing all the High Elf beneftis: Racial armor was listed and ignrored high elf, when tunare armor is excellent; clickies for races were listed and High Elf has the neck quests, which can be finished once velious comes out and provide multiple good clickies if you repeat it; High elves have tunare/plane of growth quests in velious.

And High elves have the most wisdom.

Choose what you want for fun, but if you're min/maxing High Elf is the superior race.

[Mentathiel]

If you're min-maxing, dwarf is the superior race. High elves may have good wisdom, but that's about all they have going for them; dwarves have solid cleric stats across the board...

[Synthlol]

If you're min-maxing, dwarf is the superior race. High elves may have good wisdom, but that's about all they have going for them; dwarves have solid cleric stats across the board...

Dwarves have a lot going for them. They have very solid wisdom (equal to erudite/dark elf, and slightly higher than halfling), 5 bonus magic and poison resist (the two important magic schools at the moment), as well as the best base stamina and strength of any cleric race. The strength is especially useful to counteract the high encumbrance of plate armor. They also get access to some really solid (but expensive) cultural plate armor that has STR+STA+WIS+SVM+SVF, the dwarf-roll jump animation, and a summon beer clicky in velious! At lower levels especially, dwarves take the cake hands down.

As you reach the endgame, however, dwarves start to see some competition. First off, dwarves can't wear robes, and a robe is the best in slot chest piece for clerics in both kunark and velious. High elves may have the worst STR and STA, but they have the highest base WIS of any cleric race choice, and they can wear robes too. They also have the best CHA of any cleric race, and clerics get lull and memblur spells; both are highly potent (especially in tandem), often underestimated, and their successes are largely determined by player charisma values. Dwarves, on the other hand, have the worst base CHA of cleric races, making these spells much less reliable.

Then there are gnomes. Gnomes have slightly higher STR and STA than high elves, but they are still wimps compared to a dwarf. They also have the worst base WIS of any cleric racial choice. Their base CHA is very middle-of-the-road. Stat-wise, gnomes are basically the absolute worst pick of any cleric race. However, they have some hidden perks. First off, they can wear robes. They can also choose to worship Brell Serillis and gain access to the same awesome cultural plate and beer-summoning clicky as dwarves. The big kicker, though, is their ability to put their face on a wall and see through it. This can be an invaluable ability in dangerous dungeons, and once you're fully decked out in velious raid gear to offset your poor base stats, the reason why gnomes are likely the true best end-game min/max cleric race.