5 Person Party Combo?

[Broadway]

Hey guys.

I'm an old EQ player from way back. I played from Vanilla to midway through Luclin before I fell off. I'm interested in jumping back in, and some friends of mine have become interested joining up as well.

There are currently five of us, real life friends, who want to form a sustainable group together whenever we can play.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what might be a well-balanced group with five people?

I've asked the gang what they want to play, and here's the list they came up with:

Paladin (Tank)
Cleric (Heal)
Bard (Pulling)
Wizard (Damage)
Shaman (Offheal/Buffer)

We were hoping to go GOOD aligned as well, since I played Evil side way back when.

Do you guys think this combo could work well?

[Dezik]

Sure it will. Some people might tell you you maybe lack DPS (wizard is more for burst) but you will be fine doing anything with this team. If you wanted ultimate efficiency you may want to trade the wizard out for an enchanter but imo its not required.

[Broadway]

Thanks for the reply, Dezik!

The guy who wants to play Wizard is pretty hot to trot for DPS. What would you say about replacing the Bard with an Enchanter? Too much overlap with the Shaman there?

[Dezik]

Well, the Wizard DPS is very poor in groups due to the fact that they cannot sustain it for long without going OOM. The bard mana song can help that but not enough to compete with a real DPS class such as a monk or rogue. And as a matter of fact, an enchanter will bring a ton of DPS to the table with a charmed pet, much more than the wizard. Wizards can be useful for the ports, however, and are certainly nice to have for "oh shit" moments when a mob / mobs need to die NOW.

The real usefulness of the enchanter comes with the crowd control. The bard can mez, but simply is not as good at it as the enchanter. There is some overlap with buffs between enchanter / shaman, but its not bad, you just split the work up between the two.

Ultimately, your decision should be based on what everyone wants to play the most. While your current group is lacking a bit in the melee DPS department, it will be completely capable of going wherever you guys want to get exp's.

[Broadway]

Thanks again for the breakdown, Dezik! I'll show this to the gang and see what they think.

[Dezik]

No problem man. Enjoy the game and try not to worry TOO much about having the "best" group, just try to get everyone a class that they want to play and enjoy the ride!

[mr_jon3s]

If you want switch the bard with an enchanter, the wizard with a rogue, and the shaman with a druid.

[Broadway]

mr_jon3s, may I ask why the druid makes more sense than the shaman? I remember druids not being as effective in indoor dungeons, which is one of the things we were hoping to do a lot of.

[Raev]

Your problem is that your group has a tremendous defensive bias (3/5 healers, and the Bard is not exactly an offensive powerhouse). If you want to level faster, you should replace the Paladin with an Enchanter.

[Broadway]

Raev, what about a tank then?

[maskedmelon]

That group will work out alright. As Dez indicated though, it may be a bit light on DPS and if the wiz is really wanting to do DPS, he ought to roll a rogue, monk or chanter. You will not see any larger burst damage than you do from a wizard, but it cannot be sustained and over multiple fights does not amount to much. Even so though, it will still work fine as is ^^

The other challenge you may run into is mans management. Yes, bards offer great regen, but only to those around them. As your group is, the Paladin will either be pulling and tanking or the hard will be pulling. If the Paladin is pulling, s/he will run out of mana due to double duty and mana regen on only half or less the time (if s /he is away pulling, s/he cannot hear the bard song). If the bard pulls, you ruin to the issue that the rest the whole group only has mana regen for half or less the time. Not a big deal, but it will add some downtime. To alleviate, you guys could consider swapping the bard for a ranger (or monk) and the shaman for a chanter. You could also keep he bard or shaman and trade just one and the wiz for the chanter and monk/ranger.

Good luck and Happy Hunting!

[brecon]

I think you definitely want some more sustained dps. There are two ways to get at it I think.

First: Swap Wizard for any class with better sustained dps. Rogue, Mage, Monk are all good ideas. Another option that I think is interesting for this group is Druid:
(1) Can still serve as burst dps
(2) Adds substantially more sustained dps with his damage shield
(3) Can charm animals in certain zones
(4) Still have a porter in group
(5) Some nice short duration dots

As for the Bard...Bards are awesome. But Bards are one of the classes that takes a lot of skill to play, and asking a Bard to pull as well as CC will be a lot of work. Just make sure the Bard knows what he's getting into....it would make things a little easier on his carpal tunnel if someone else was able to pull. Also, CC is much easier on an enchanter. For a Bard to CC three mobs at higher levels requires at a minimum 6 different keystrokes every 18 seconds, more if he is charming one mob and mezzing the other two, and more if he is also attacking. Lots of fun, but lots of work, especially in a group grind.

[maskedmelon]

Raev, what about a tank then?

Not sure if Raev is being facetious or not, but presumably the chanter charmed pet would tank. With no other melee that may be a viable if unorthodox option. Not one I would advocate though.

[Broadway]

I've actually been concerned about having a Pally in the mix. Is the experience penalty for the hybrid gonna hit everybody REALLY hard?

[Raev]

Not sure if Raev is being facetious or not, but presumably the chanter charmed pet would tank.

The bard would tank, obviously. Bards have fantastic aggro with snare and while they are a bit squishy compared to a Warrior or Paladin, you have so much defense in your group otherwise (full Shaman/Cleric HP buffs, massive HP/mana regen, CC from the enchanter, Wizard root parking and stunning mobs, shaman on full-time slow duty) that it won't matter. Even the wizard can manage to be moderately effective with that much mana regen, for that matter, although of course the group would be more effective swapping him for a Rogue or Magician.

[maskedmelon]

I've actually been concerned about having a Pally in the mix. Is the experience penalty for the hybrid gonna hit everybody REALLY hard?

No, grouping with a hybrid is basically just like grouping with a priest who is two levels higher. If you group with a 35 paladin they would take about as much xp as a 37 cleric. Bards also have the same penalty as paladins. Casters have a 10% penalty and monks have 20% penalty. Iksar have something like a 20% penalty as well so an iksar monk would receive the same amount of xp as a hybrid (I think the iksar monk may actually take a bit more).

[maskedmelon]

The bard would tank, obviously.

Obviously... :P It does make sense though in that context ^^

[Broadway]

Thanks for the update, maskedmelon. I guess I don't understand the percentages still. I played a druid back in Vanilla so I didn't deal with the penalties. I just didn't want our group to have to kill 40% more mobs to level than having a warrior instead.

[BlkCamel]

Thanks for the update, maskedmelon. I guess I don't understand the percentages still. I played a druid back in Vanilla so I didn't deal with the penalties. I just didn't want our group to have to kill 40% more mobs to level than having a warrior instead.

I like what you have so far:

Paladin (Tank)
Cleric (Heal)
Bard (Pulling)
Wizard (Damage)
Shaman (Offheal/Buffer)

As others have mentioned you are lacking in the dps. I would say you shouldn't push changing 2 or 3 classes if people have settled on these classes. Hard enough to get 5 people to play a game with and then try to dictate to 2/3rds of them. Group is solid other then a bit light in dps.

As others suggested I would advise to switch Wizard with Enchanter, Do not worry about overlap with shaman. There is very little overlap. Bard can pull, shaman can regen, and enchanter can charm (DPS) + Clarity the group for mana regen. Bards make perfect pullers as they can lull, charm, mez, stun, mem blur jack of all trades.

Charmed pets are insane DPS and make great backup tanks, do not under estimate them. Try to convince the Wizard that he can be 10X the dps over the course of a session as an enchanter then a wizard.

With this you have:


Paladin (Tank)
Cleric (Heal)
Bard (Pulling)
Enchanter (DPS/CC/+mana)
Shaman (Offheal/Buffer)

As far as replacing Shaman with druid, do not listen. Shaman are OP can do everything a Druid can do (Except port) + more, slows, emergency tank, pet, Buffs.

As far as replacing Paladin, again I say don't worry about it. Paladin is a great tank, can spot heal, res, stun casters, blast undead with huge proc weapons and decent nukes. Exp penalty is negligent in a group because although that player takes 40% more xp to level they are not taking 40% of the xp in a group.

In a group it is kind of done like this, xp is shared evenly among all group members adjusted by total xp to next level. So total xp is is divided by a percentage of each persons total xp to next level, you can look at it as if the hybrid takes 40% more of the split of xp between the players. So its 40% more on 1/5th share not the total share. I know this isn't perfect explanation but I am trying to say it in a different way that may allow you to picture the distribution better.:D

[Broadway]

Ah! That does make more sense to me BlkCamel, thanks for breaking it down like that!

I'm thinking we might go like his breakdown now, after learning some stats from you incredibly helpful folks:

Paladin (Tank)
Cleric (Heal)
Enchanter (DPS/CC/+mana)
Rogue (DPS)
Shaman (Offheal/Buffer)

Getting more sustained damage, some CC, and even a mind-control. With Breeze and Clarity, maybe that'll make us more efficient and survivable!

[Dezik]

What you have there is a damn good group.. cant really beat it.. but again, don't force ppl to play a class they don't like... liking your class is the single most important thing. If, however, people are up for it that group is unbeatable.

[Broadway]

Yep! The only person married to their class was the Cleric, and we weren't gonna get rid of that one.

Thanks to everybody who pitched in (both for group advice and some EXP details), we all really appreciate it! Hopefully we can get this stuff going soon and see you all in game!

[Mordyth]

1) Tank
2) Cleric
3) Monk
4) Monk/Rogue
5) Enchanter

if 6 then another monk

That kind of group would help p1999's seemingly exhaustible number of monks fill groups :p

[nonphixion]

u need wiz and bard and enchanter and shaman and cleric for pvp dawg, u going to play on red server right?

[Slopknight]

I would change the wizzy for a magician/necro/rogue.

Good luck with the penalties on bard and pally :)

[Wfrench1234]

I would change the wizzy for a magician/necro/rogue.

Good luck with the penalties on bard and pally :)

Why you gotta do it?

[Broadway]

Thanks to everybody who lent their opinion to helping my friends and I out.

We've made our characters and everybody is excited to play. I'm really curious how my friends will take it, given that they've never played EQ before.

With everybody's advice, we've got the following party nailed down:

Paladin (Human) - Tank
Cleric (High Elf) - Healer
Rogue (Halfling) - DPS
Enchanter (Erudite) - CC/DPS
Shaman (Barbarian) - Off Heal/Buffer

Hope to see you all in game!

[maskedmelon]

Thanks to everybody who lent their opinion to helping my friends and I out.

We've made our characters and everybody is excited to play. I'm really curious how my friends will take it, given that they've never played EQ before.

With everybody's advice, we've got the following party nailed down:

Paladin (Human) - Tank
Cleric (High Elf) - Healer
Rogue (Halfling) - DPS
Enchanter (Erudite) - CC/DPS
Shaman (Barbarian) - Off Heal/Buffer

Hope to see you all in game!

It doesn't get any better than that (except maybe with a 6th ^^) happy hunting!

[sox7d]

I think a lot of people in this thread are thinking too "optimized experience-gain." Transportation, movement and other utility is extremely beneficial if you guys are going to be together in more than just that setting.

Instead of double monk or double rogue, swap in a ranger for the snap agro, snare, CC, sow, TRACKING and downtime healing. (FYI, the exp penalty just means they act as two levels higher).

Druid will be incredibly useful for DS, port, sow and back-up heals. A cleric healer really isn't necessary other than planes, HS and seb.

Definitely suggest a chanter, though.

As far as wizards go, it's a topic that I'm hypocritical in. I hate min-maxing and super-optimized mindsets, but as a 60 wizard that's crunched the math, they are just too awful in a group setting for me to say "you'll be fine with one, it's not a big difference." Great soloers, great chardok groups, great raiders, SHIT GROUPMATES.

[Dezik]

The group you have will be awesome, run with it and let us know you guys do!

[DarkwingDuck]

Maybe drop the shaman for a Druid (for ports instead of wizzie) plus he can still buffs, regen, and nuke) and swap the wizard for an ench...
We're talking pure benefits package. Of course anything 5 people, will be doable.. Since 3-4 of the right thing can do anything.

If you don't care at all about ports, drop the Druid/wizzie hehe
If u have an ench u won't need the shaman.. And can monk or rogue for deeps.
Since the ench can haste and slow. And clarity the tank/healer and himself. Plus mass dps with his charmed pet.

Paladin
Cleric
Enchanter
Bard
Monk/rogue//mage

[DarkwingDuck]

Thanks to everybody who lent their opinion to helping my friends and I out.

We've made our characters and everybody is excited to play. I'm really curious how my friends will take it, given that they've never played EQ before.

With everybody's advice, we've got the following party nailed down:

Paladin (Human) - Tank
Cleric (High Elf) - Healer
Rogue (Halfling) - DPS
Enchanter (Erudite) - CC/DPS
Shaman (Barbarian) - Off Heal/Buffer

Hope to see you all in game!

Sounds like a good group, have fun

[Messie]

Hey look, another hypothesizing thread talking about the game for a bunch of people who won't ever put the ungodly amount of hours to level up said party!


I'm beginning to notice that far more people enjoy talking and theorizing about Everquest than they do actually playing the game. I had a buddy I met on P99 who I played with, he still emails me once every 6 months with "Dude what if we ran this group on PEQ, OMGS0S1CKNASTEE!"

Just play the damn game, if you have 5 people actively playing the game and not just slacking lettting everyone else do the work, just about any god damn 5 classes will do the trick.

Cheer up, man!

[Tuljin]

Lol the man has a point