Break down of power by class for new players

[Bodybagger]

I was curious in getting feedback from current players/returning red players, What criteria you would rate the classes by for pvp capability? In my mind there is X=Survivability Y=Killing Power and Z=Versatility if we were to plot it out.

What I want is responses and votes. There are 14 classes. If you were to rank all 14 of the classes against each of the others, where, 1-14, do you rank each class. I know teams/mass pvp alters this but assume each class was doing 1v1 against every other class in succession, how each one would rank. Mine is from the perspective of no lvl 40+ PVP and new to the red99 server, but with several classes in the 30-40 range and friends in range and discussing with people I play with, so not sure I have enough to contribute fully. May be hard to isolate it to purely 1-14 but if you don't want to do 1-14 or can't decide, could perhaps just do low, average, and high at least to indicate better or worse that average in each regard.

So, by Survivability/Killing Power/Versatility

Casters
Enchanter -/-/-
Magician -/-/-
Necromancer -/-/-
Wizard -/-/-

Priests
Cleric -/-/-
Druid -/-/-
Shaman -/-/-

Melee
Monk -/-/-
Rogue -/-/-
Bard -/-/-
Ranger -/-/-

Tanks
Warrior -/-/-
Paladin -/-/-
Shadow Knight -/-/-

This is EQ and single player mode in this game is WILDLY unbalanced, intentionally putting walls in place to encourage group play, as the first true MMO... but it'd help some newcomers to know more about what they want to play. Obviously there will be cliffnotes for *highly gear dependent characters (all melee) and similarly **late bloomers (like SK and Sham are late bloomers that don't really come to power til after lvl 30) but most of this is stuff people know from blue anyways.

Sure I'll get 80 troll posts, but curious on genuine feedback form the few who will bother. Hadn't seen any "guides" in regards to this. and for the record, I am of the "play what you enjoy playing" school of thought, and believe all classes are viable and fun both pve and pvp, but some of my characters are definitely faceroll vs hardmode day and night different for a pvp newb.

[HippoNipple]

Trying to be so detailed and analytical to the point where you are assigning a point value to every class for these three categories is next to impossible. If you wanted to do it right you would need some sort of in depth regression analysis. If you get one person's opinion they will think about a very small pool of scenarios and pick classes based off of that.

Are we talking about max geared players, i.e. full potential?

Are you taking into account how often you are fighting in closed quarters with mobs that can or cannot see through invis/sneak?

Is it group or individual survivability (yonder/gate/harmshield vs a heal/cure)

If this was going to be done correctly you would need hundreds of scenarios for every class to give you an average, weighting each scenario on likelihood of happening.

With that said. If you are new to the server and want DPS pick either a wizard or rogue, depending on play style and how much plat you have. If you want to farm that won't change from what you do on blue. All support classes in PvE translate really well into PvP.

Enchanter is probably the class that is played most differently when going from PvE to PvP, but they are still great in both. It makes sense if you think about it, a class that revolves around controlling its opponents is going to require a change in strategy when players adapt and can prepare to counter your cc.

[Milton]

On Red, it's the player, not the class.

Move to resolved.

[Bodybagger]

1v1, how good each class survives against and kills the other classes, assuming level appropriate equal gear more or less.

because otherwise, any twink will beat any non twink, and any 60 VP geared class will beat and 56 wearing junk they scrapped together.

Like I said, 1-14 is probably too specific, but poor, average, excellent is simple enough. mage versatility and survivability overall poor and poor, with average to excellent killing power until higher levels with great resist gear, and versatility getting slightly better higher level with summon levi rings etc, for example.

rogue** average to poor survivability*, excellent killing power*, poor versatility throughout *immensely gear dependent

shaman excellent survivability**, average killing power, excellent versatility - ** for late bloomer on surviving, early on you are going to struggle with a mana pool too small to nuke people to death and maintain your health with heals, end game less a problem I thnk

SK** average to excellent survivability, average killing power, average versatility with see invis early on, invis and fd at 30, clicky instant invis from CoS, all around gear dependent for damage and surviving (this is all melees though)

Wizard - average to poor survivability, excellent killing power, average to excellent versatility, because of ports/steps/levi/EB/invis etc.

Any and all characters need resists, but melees lacking range dps are more vulnerable. Rooting a wizard doesn't do too much to help you kill him unless you have a melee with you in pursuit. So assuming 1v1(of any other class/the same) it's less a huge factor.

So consider it similar to that for newbs to p99 pvp. Being able to combat cc effects is big, being able to take less dmg from spells is big, being able to heal is big. being able to kill your opponent before they can kill you or able to escape death huge. All things I weigh in when I consider the different classes.

[Bodybagger]

I'd personally like to see feedback from some necros. I have to say, I see less necros than any other class. I see more rangers and pallies than necros.


Are there necros in play lvl 40+ frequently? Just no newb necros? Hands down least common class I have seen in past few months

[Sear]

if you're going to actually try to break this down, you should categorize mass pvp and solo pvp separately. and maybe walmart gear vs BIS gear.

+ with resists being stupid right now, I'd roll a shaman if I was strictly considering 50+ pvp (especially if my bankroll was limited)

[Bazia]

ENC Example K/D Ratios


---------------------------------------------
Aces <Holocaust> K:3 D:69
Amadayn <Holocaust> K:0 D:108
Milwaukees <Holocaust> K:2 D:33
Hotmezz <Holocaust> K:0 D:52
Mezem <Holocaust> K:0 D:23
Scuttle <Holocaust> K:0 D:14
---------------------------------------------
TOTAL ~~~~~~ K:5 D:299

ENC should be pretty low on the powerlevel based upon these numbers imo

[Bodybagger]

ENC Example K/D Ratios

K D
---------------------------------------------
Aces <Holocaust> 3 69
Amadayn <Holocaust> 0 108
Milwaukees <Holocaust> 2 33
Hotmezz <Holocaust> 0 52
Mezem <Holocaust> 0 23
Scuttle <Holocaust> 0 14
---------------------------------------------
5 299

ENC should be pretty low on the powerlevel based upon these numbers imo

leaderboards in no way reflect class power of any form... do not account for 6v1, ganks etc.... leaderboards worthless as genuine data acquisition honestly...

[gobletsmashing]

You shouldnt cite Holocaust because they don't pvp unless its:

Near a zoneline
Outnumbered 3:1
Twinks vs rags
or a combination of those 3

[Sear]

ENC Example K/D Ratios


---------------------------------------------
Aces <Holocaust> K:3 D:69
Amadayn <Holocaust> K:0 D:108
Milwaukees <Holocaust> K:2 D:33
Hotmezz <Holocaust> K:0 D:52
Mezem <Holocaust> K:0 D:23
Scuttle <Holocaust> K:0 D:14
---------------------------------------------
TOTAL ~~~~~~ K:5 D:299

ENC should be pretty low on the powerlevel based upon these numbers imo

This is sort of strange coming from an ENC player who notoriously tried to upkeep a pristine KDA.

Also I'm pretty sure Letsjoe gets kills. I wouldn't want to fight him 1v1.

ENCs don't rack up kills in mass pvp because that isn't their job. They debuff and CC so that Rogues and SKs can ultimately get the YT and then pretend they're the Mike Tyson of Norrath.

[HippoNipple]

Also enchanters have different gear/spells for PvE/PvP so they are the easier class to catch off guard and kill. There aren't too many enchanters that run around looking for 1v1 at max level, which are the only enchanters that should be getting kills since in group play other classes should be getting the YT. Most of them farm gear and play a different class for 1v1 pvp.

[Bodybagger]

again, idea is considering as if imagining 1v1, each class vs every other class.

So from perspective of playing each class and having to fight each other class, having played both classes, how well you think they perform.

In mass pvp all have roles to fulfill and perform just fine, and each group will likely have a blend of all classes, so it doesn't matter which one you are playing basically.

So for example, compare how well a Shaman does 1v1 against each of the other classes... then compare a Warrior against every other class. The shaman is going to have a lot more classes that it does well against because it is versatile, and the classes it struggle to destroy outright will likely not be able to kill it any easier, because it has survivability too, but perhaps not the burst dmg and proper versatility to drop a difficult to kill class like a healer.

Leaderboards don't show nay of this. They show killshots. Don't post any more meaningless leaderboard stats please, it is a waste of space on the leaderboard, and it's a bigger waste of space in this thread.

[Bodybagger]

Also enchanters have different gear/spells for PvE/PvP so they are the easier class to catch off guard and kill. There aren't too many enchanters that run around looking for 1v1 at max level, which are the only enchanters that should be getting kills since in group play other classes should be getting the YT. Most of them farm gear and play a different class for 1v1 pvp.

THIS. Some of the most versatile classes can get HAMMERED in pvp BECAUSE of that versatility. Wrong spell set out? Enjoy your corpse run. Something that has taken getting used to pvp'ing on the shaman... I sacrifice pve capability to stay locked and loaded for pvp, I can't even imagine on an enchanter...

edit: also try to bear in mind all players may not want to explore level 50+/ max lvl pvp.. my shaman for example I will likely park at 34 as this is a powerful level range for them. I will park my mage at 44 without a chance at epic most likely to still farm some stuff for other toons but stay out of range of 50+ toons... my sk I wouldn't mind taking to full level, but you don't have to go to max level to have meaningful pvp... lots of twinks to battle, and groups to battle if you aren't a twink and enjoy being an underdog.

[derpcake]

Also enchanters have different gear/spells for PvE/PvP so they are the easier class to catch off guard and kill. There aren't too many enchanters that run around looking for 1v1 at max level, which are the only enchanters that should be getting kills since in group play other classes should be getting the YT. Most of them farm gear and play a different class for 1v1 pvp.

Please ignore the fact that some people do no kind of grouping for xp / loot at all on main chars, facilitating a good leaderboard score.

Corner-pillar of R99 boasting there, we need to keep that around to prevent potential suicides.

[Bodybagger]

I seriously want more feedback from necros... I've never even pvp'd one in like 3 months time playing 10-40 toons and tooling around.... fought everything but necros. Never even group with them. I read warnings about fighting them as several classes but never see them. They are regarded as dangerous to most youngsters of other classes but never see them? Why so many wizards if necros are so decent? What makes the necro's so decent but not played? PVP spell set for them far from pve spell set?

Colgate thanks for taking time to provide feedback int hat format as requested. I know it isn't a perfect system and obviously some really shine in group/mass pvp, but still, for a new player, I feel this is the info that helps you see what you may or may not enjoy playing.

[Rec]

what ever class can gate away > anything for a new player

[FoxxHound]

what ever class can gate away > anything for a new player

yee

[Bodybagger]

I find it incredibly telling that people claim shaman and ench are ungodly OP with the recent resist debuff patch, but no one says anything about mage who get same debuffs. That's how bad mage is for pvp lol

[Drakaris]

In my opinion they shouldn't make pets charm poofable in pvp. Yes it's classic, no it ain't balanced. Use roots, snares and fear to control pets in pvp, not this charm poofing shit. Pets should be immune to charms if players are.

[Bodybagger]

In my opinion they shouldn't make pets charm poofable in pvp. Yes it's classic, no it ain't balanced. Use roots, snares and fear to control pets in pvp, not this charm poofing shit. Pets should be immune to charms if players are.

THANK YOU. Make my pet part of me as a player BECAUSE IT IS. Already bad enough that is you force me to zone I lose 70% of my DPS lol... I have zero mobility spells... my options are gate, plug, or die. At least with a pet that can't be charm popped I'd have a reason to attempt leveling beyond 44 where I am planning to park to avoid that gay shit some.

No clue why a mage pet would be interacted with any different than any player, it's still a player controlled avatar...

and Colgate, what I was specifically referencing is everyone saying Ench/Sham most OP now because eof debuff spells... but no one saying mages got any more powerful or bitching about them on forums, because they are already so fucked PVP it doesn't even matter if they get malo/malosini etc. too and they got uber buffed lol