Sony sold off the SOE to another company no longer owns EQ

[Tiggles]

I wonder if this will affect P99 we don't know how litigious these new IP holders are and even if P99 doesn't break any laws I doubt they can afford a drawn out legal battle.

http://kotaku.com/sony-sells-off-studio-behind-everquest-h1z1-1683267881

[Ele]

Sony:

http://i.imgur.com/gNUKfH7.gif

[maskedmelon]

Happy to see Sony trimming some fat ^^ Always bothered me that SOE was entirely non-representative of its parent company. Sounds like SOE finally managed to squander what was left from the cash cow they had no idea how they made and Sony finally brought out the axe. Good riddance ^^

[kagrobb]

this is prolly so far down on the radar they do not care. Moving forward with developed games is what they will be doing not chasing after 1200 players for trying to get some type of subscription money. Now if they sold EQ to a patent troll law office in Texas I would become worried.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Some quick research shows a very grim situation for Sony Online Entertainment recently.

In 2014, they reported a loss of $60 million. (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-sales-look-strong-but-sony-expects-to-make-another-loss-next-year/1100-6419620/)

(To be fair, this is probably not that unusual considering Nintendo posted a $456 million loss (http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/7/5690124/nintendo-posts-456-million-annual-operating-loss) the same year.)

[Whirled]

Does this mean we start making the p99 t-shirts?

[Swish]

SOE's new name? "Daybreak Game Company LLC"

http://replygif.net/i/100.gif

[khanable]

daybreak game company sounds like something those hong kong fuckers would come up with

WE GAME COMPANY, YOU BUY GAME

[Tiggles]

this is prolly so far down on the radar they do not care. Moving forward with developed games is what they will be doing not chasing after 1200 players for trying to get some type of subscription money. Now if they sold EQ to a patent troll law office in Texas I would become worried.

On another forum they are looking into the company who bought it, THey have zero other gaming companies and are strictly venture capitalists.

Here is the companys portfolio

http://i.imgur.com/0SDuvgb.png

[maskedmelon]

Some quick research shows a very grim situation for Sony Online Entertainment recently.

In 2014, they reported a loss of $60 million. (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-sales-look-strong-but-sony-expects-to-make-another-loss-next-year/1100-6419620/)

(To be fair, this is probably not that unusual considering Nintendo posted a $456 million loss (http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/7/5690124/nintendo-posts-456-million-annual-operating-loss) the same year.)

Well you can't string a dozen failed titles along behind one aging hit and expect a good outcome. They couldn't even do FTP right.

[Portasaurus]

Tiggles is back!

I can't articulate very well why it pleases me, but it pleases me.

I'm pleased.

It's all very pleasing, you see.

Incoming Tiggles stream?

[Sage Truthbearer]

On another forum they are looking into the company who bought it, THey have zero other gaming companies and are strictly venture capitalists.

Interesting, but in my opinion SOE has already had a very poor company culture when it comes to gaming development and being satisfied with mediocre products.

[Tiggles]

Tiggles is back!

Incoming Tiggles stream?

Maybe, If enough people are interested in it.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Interesting, but in my opinion SOE has already had a very poor company culture when it comes to gaming development and being satisfied with mediocre products.

That's because most companies don't truly care about their products, they care about making money.

The product is not the end-game, money is. The only thing that counts is the bottom line.

Sure, every game cannot be perfect at release, but some of the stuff they did was just mind-blowing. Buggy, clunky, half-assed pieces of crap? Hey is it playable? Yes? Then let's make money!

[Swish]

Maybe, If enough people are interested in it.

would fap, bring it back tiggles

...and as for their portfolio, I've never heard of any of those :/

I wonder if they'll station cash the shit out of everything...

[Nuktari]

daybreak game company sounds like something those hong kong fuckers would come up with

WE GAME COMPANY, YOU BUY GAME

http://media3.giphy.com/media/F2RPNOnrUtTOg/200.gif

[Aviann]

would fap, bring it back tiggles

...and as for their portfolio, I've never heard of any of those :/

I wonder if they'll station cash the shit out of everything...

It kind of looks like a plethora of once-retired music downloaders and knock-off search engines. Kaazing? Rhapsody? Bing? Not looking good for us, sir. Not at all.

[Sage Truthbearer]

I take that back. The fact that some venture capitalist company with no connection to the gaming development community has acquired SOE means that quality of games will now be even worse than they already were. Didn't think that was even possible!

[fastboy21]

So, SOE is now the Michael Scott Paper Company...

Count your days, Mr. Smedley...maybe Brad will hire you.

I mean, you can't just make one successful game and sit on your laurels leaching money...you do that for twenty or so years and folks won't tolerate it anymore.

[cormag]

Does this mean we start making the p99 t-shirts?

I think this means we might be getting an influx of new players.

[Samhain]

This is NOT good.

Not good at all. I've dealt with IP trolls in a past life. They don't give a shit; even making an offer for P99 to kick back to them. It's Cease and Desist and over.

[Shrubwise]

Hi Samhain

[Haynar]

So, SOE is now the Michael Scott Paper Company...

Count your days, Mr. Smedley...maybe Brad will hire you.

I mean, you can't just make one successful game and sit on your laurels leaching money...you do that for twenty or so years and folks won't tolerate it anymore.
LOL.

Maybe they will hire Brad?

[cormag]

LOL.

Maybe they will hire Brad?

Haha they hire Brad and fire Smed would be hilarious.

[Samhain]

Hey dude, come play red again!

[Shrubwise]

Negative. Too busy getting my ass kicked in H1Z1 right now. Hope you're blasting fools on Red99!

[Oleris]

RIP Project1999

[Sage Truthbearer]

Couldn't resist.

http://i.imgur.com/5MzlWuO.png

[khanable]

Couldn't resist.

http://i.imgur.com/5MzlWuO.png

lol nice

[Man0warr]

Wouldn't it be Cll Ynapmoc Semag Kaerbyad? Kind of sounds like a Celtic city.

[fastboy21]

Wouldn't it be Cll Ynapmoc Semag Kaerbyad? Kind of sounds like a Celtic city.

It sounds and looks like a low end Russian vodka...get it out here.

[fastboy21]

In other and related news...SOE live has been cancelled (they are calling it a "hiatus") until forever.

[captnamazing]

daybreak game company sounds like something those hong kong fuckers would come up with

WE GAME COMPANY, YOU BUY GAME

haahah

[Rogean]

This doesn't affect us. We don't make any money or charge our players, and venture capitalists only care about money. They wouldn't benefit.

[Wrench]

Maybe, If enough people are interested in it.

you ever do an r99 one?

id absolutely watch it

[Oleris]

good to hear rogean.

[khanable]

I'm still totally turbo brain fucked over their new name

In what universe does it make sense for a video game company to put the words "game" and "break" in their name? It would be like the george foreman grill assholes announcing they're going to start calling themselves Nightburnt Meat Grill.

[Wabic]

But how many of us cancelled our live accounts to play p99? I sure did.

[khanable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NRri9hGhek&feature=youtu.be

heheheh

[cormag]

They havent even delivered their zombie game yet and pop culture has moved on from zombies already.

[Aviann]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NRri9hGhek&feature=youtu.be

heheheh

Hahaha!

[untergang]

This doesn't affect us. We don't make any money or charge our players, and venture capitalists only care about money. They wouldn't benefit.
Worst case scenario, you could always save the server by hosting it overseas. That's how some of the larger private WoW server providers have insulated themselves from Blizzard's legal team.

[Swish]

They havent even delivered their zombie game yet and pop culture has moved on from zombies already.

I dunno, people still lapping up them zombie games. Definitely agree they're late to the party with it though, if this had been around when Day Z first launched its early access they'd probably have more interest.

I do fear for EQ Next (Lion King Online)...

[squarez]

MMmm, I dunno.... If I were a venture capitalist and saw the success of P99, I would probably go and hire the guys who did the emulation work and running of the servers as they probably know how to get shit done. Given that this was all done in spare time, imagine if I gave them a paycheck to do it full-time.....



hmmmm

[joedirt87]

Next is either dead or will be turned into a wow clone.

[fastboy21]

MMmm, I dunno.... If I were a venture capitalist and saw the success of P99, I would probably go and hire the guys who did the emulation work and running of the servers as they probably know how to get shit done. Given that this was all done in spare time, imagine if I gave them a paycheck to do it full-time.....



hmmmm

Yeah...if you were managing a $15 Billion venture capital firm and cared about p99 then you would quickly find yourself not managing a $15 Billion venture capital firm.

The amount of money they stand to make here has nothing...absolutely nothing...to do with p99. It barely has anything to do with EQN, much less original EQ.

The only real possible risk to p99 is that with the change of ownership will come a shakeup of leadership at the company formerly known as SOE. There has always been a risk that SOE policy would turn its gaze to p99 and emulators, it just never did (for good reasons)...but with new leadership its a new roll of the dice in a way. most likely, it means nothing. But, who knows what Smedley or whatever sycophantic lackey that wants his job really thinks about emulators? Most likely, they---and whatever their replacements are---could not care less.

[Stefen]

All current and upcoming SOE games will continue to operate and be developed as normal, Daybreak said in that same forum post. "In fact, we expect to have even more resources available to us as a result of this acquisition," the company added, leading to "new exciting developments for our existing IP and games."

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/02/private-investment-firm-buys-out-sony-online-entertainment/

EQNext still alive, bros

[Swish]

They're going to put more money into a company that lost a lot of cash last year? Interesting. Something tells me that they haven't done business that way up until now.

I think the golden rule of a takeover is to initially calm everyone down, then get in there and see how it's all operating and then make the necessary changes. Maybe you make "more resources available" by cutting out needless staff positions.

As mentioned in the RNF version of this thread, there's people with titles like "Senior Brand Manager" for EQ Next - what does that schmuck do all day? Maybe they'll be cruel and start layoffs eventually, then merge roles and readvertise less jobs with more involved at lower pay?

Gotta make it profitable somehow or there's no point...venture capitalists :/

[oldhead]

Count your days, Mr. Smedley...maybe Brad will hire you.



OHSNAP.GIF

[Adolphus]

I think EQNext is done. No parent company sells off a major division of the company when said division is in the middle of developing a flagship product - not unless something is very wrong. If there was even a chance that EQNext and Landmark would be profitable relative to their current investment (and future investment requirements), Sony would have kept SOE under it's umbrella.

So yeah . . . Sony no doubt saw the staggering low players numbers for Landmark and realized that neither game was going to generate a sufficient ROI to justify keeping the studio. I'd say that this sale is really a monument to Smedley's stupidity - the culmination of all his horrible decisions and direction over the years. If only they had used the template of classic Everquest; a subscription-only model, with updated graphics and better quests and mechanics . . . man, it would have worked wonders.

[bouncerr 2.0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NRri9hGhek&feature=youtu.be

heheheh

/thread

[untergang]

EQ Next was done when they announced that it would be World of Minecraft. What people wanted was a spiritual successor to the original EverQuest and they failed to deliver. They're sitting on the IP that laid the groundwork for WoW and they're unable to do anything with it. Pitiful.

[Tann]

EQ Next was done when they announced that it would be World of Minecraft. What people wanted was a spiritual successor to the original EverQuest and they failed to deliver. They're sitting on the IP that laid the groundwork for WoW and they're unable to do anything with it. Pitiful.

maybe 5 people, aint no room for a hardcore/classic mmo in today's market. its way too late for that now.

[Adolphus]

maybe 5 people, aint no room for a hardcore/classic mmo in today's market. its way too late for that now.

You're stating this on the most hardcore/classic emu server in existence, which has an active player base of 10,000+ players.

And people were saying the same thing that you are about space sims just a few years ago . . . and then Star Citizen happened, and now 750,000 people have pre-ordered that game. A game which is still in alpha.

There's a huge space for a "hardcore" PVE mmo designed for adults (not fucking 8-year-olds) that's not being filled. If EverQuest Returns popped up on Kickstarter as the spiritual successor to the original EverQuest, I would bet serious money that it would fund just like Star Citizen.


P.S. And in case people aren't familiar with Star Citizen, it doesn't get much more hardcore than that in the MMO genre. Game is balls to the wall, perma-death hardcore.

[Hailto]

P.S. And in case people aren't familiar with Star Citizen, it doesn't get much more hardcore than that in the MMO genre. Game is balls to the wall, perma-death hardcore.

Sounds like im going to have to check that out.

[Tann]

...

actually during peak hours eqemu hits around 4k~ players.

pre-order doesn't = player base. star citizen sold as much purely based on the wing commander name. and i highly doubt they have those numbers now, considering how that game is a cash shop on crack.

I agree that "There's a huge space for a "hardcore" PVE mmo designed for adults (not fucking 8-year-olds) that's not being filled." but its not huge.. its small and flaccid.. the market as a whole doesn't want hardcore anymore, i'm not even sure they did back then but there was nothing else around.

its a niche market and will never draw in enough revenue for a big company to take a risk developing one.

[Adolphus]

actually during peak hours eqemu hits around 4k~ players.

pre-order doesn't = player base. star citizen sold as much purely based on the wing commander name. and i highly doubt they have those numbers now, considering how that game is a cash shop on crack.

I agree that "There's a huge space for a "hardcore" PVE mmo designed for adults (not fucking 8-year-olds) that's not being filled." but its not huge.. its small and flaccid.. the market as a whole doesn't want hardcore anymore, i'm not even sure they did back then but there was nothing else around.

its a niche market and will never draw in enough revenue for a big company to take a risk developing one.

Not talking about peak hours, talking about players who actively log in. Players don't stay logged in all day, they log in and out. Consider that not everyone logs in every day, or every minute. If peak is 1000+ players, then X10+ that number for "active" players that log in minimum several times a week. If P1999 charged $4.99 a month for subscriptions, they'd probably rake in $50,000+ per month. And that's with p1999 still being relatively obscure and unknown.

Again I disagree with your statement. People want hardcore. Look at DayZ. Look at Star Citizen. That's the trend now. Challenging, serious games for teens and adults.

[untergang]

maybe 5 people, aint no room for a hardcore/classic mmo in today's market. its way too late for that now.

If there wasn't a market for unforgiving RPGs, then nobody would have bought the Souls games. The problem is that nobody is tapping into it. It takes a certain amount of fearlessness to go hard or go home and From Software proved that you can get away with it IF you have the will and the talent to pull it off. If you put together a compelling package with good playability, even Johnny Casual will accept getting his dick slapped in the dirt.

[Stabulous]

Every company seems to want to go after the casual/themepark mmo market because it's bigger, ignoring the fact that there's also much, much more competition there. A hardcore mmo will never have wow sub numbers, but it doesn't have to in order to be successful. If they targeted the hardcore market with good ideas and realistic expectations I think they'd be pleasantly surprised by their numbers. Instead we have every company shooting for the stars with their themepark mmo only to land flat on their face.

[86753o9]

Nothing new. PC games have been dumbing down, substituting eye candy for substance since the resurgence of the console platform. Hell the PC game itself is now a niche market.

[Doors]

Nothing new. PC games have been dumbing down, substituting eye candy for substance since the resurgence of the console platform. Hell the PC game itself is now a niche market.

What the fuck are you talking about lol. Consoles these days are garbage.

Here's a quick breakdown of your console games every single year:

Call of Duty
Madden
Call of Duty
Assassin's Creed

Go open Steam and browse the market. PC blows consoles so far out of the water its not even a comparison. The only reason console is even in the conversation is because they're being used these days for multimedia centers in living rooms so idiots can stream nextflix and youtube.

[Adolphus]

Nothing new. PC games have been dumbing down, substituting eye candy for substance since the resurgence of the console platform. Hell the PC game itself is now a niche market.

So much bad information in this thread. PC gaming is the most lucrative platform by far. Your information isn't even biased, it's just flat out false.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2014/07/14/the-console-war-is-over-the-pc-already-won/

The PC market was over twice as big as the entire console market combined as of last year. And it's still growing. Console lost the war. Now it's up to developers to figure out what PC gamers actually want.

/facts

[Clark]

RIP EQNext

It looked terrible anyway tbh.

[khandman]

I would certainly contribute to a kickstarter of an Everquest overhaul if one ever happened. EQNext looked interesting and was eager to try it out and still might if it is released.

But I am here on P99 for a reason.

[86753o9]

What the fuck are you talking about lol. Consoles these days are garbage.
Haven't they always been? It's called mainstream accessibility and it's why PC games started going down hill back in the 90's as the companies shifted to a broader target demographic.

[86753o9]

So much bad information in this thread. PC gaming is the most lucrative platform by far. Your information isn't even biased, it's just flat out false.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2014/07/14/the-console-war-is-over-the-pc-already-won/

The PC market was over twice as big as the entire console market combined as of last year. And it's still growing. Console lost the war. Now it's up to developers to figure out what PC gamers actually want.

/facts
In recent years that's true, but I believe it's due in some part to PC game designers efforts to emulate console games. I'll use xcom as an example. That was a great game back in the day. The modern remake was a disappointment to fans of the original. Yes it was a commercial success and it had great eye candy, but it was seriously dumbed down to make it more "mainstream accessible". Thankfully Xenonauts was later released to satisfy the faithful.

Also that link you posted is about gaming hardware, in other words graphics cards. Here is a link regarding software sales, in other words games.
http://info300.net/lleu2/Market.html

http://info300.net/lleu2/market.jpg

[Mentathiel]

PC gaming is the most lucrative platform by far. Your information isn't even biased, it's just flat out false.
Speaking as someone who works in the PC games industry; try telling the publishers that.

There's this thing called DRM - you might have heard of it - which was supposed to deter piracy. Publishers just won't stop whining about the 90% piracy rate (i.e. they estimate that they sell one copy for every ten installs) on PC and the fact that even the most impressive DRM sometimes gets cracked or circumvented even before the game's release. Compare this to console where there is still some piracy, but it's a minority.

Steam, along with clones like Origin and UPlay, has been our best defence - boxed PC games make about 30-50% profit for the publisher at best and any DRM is going to be intrusive, Steam is 70% at worst (though you're not really allowed to discuss the exact numbers) and its DRM is almost transparent - but the two most recent generations of console introduced digital downloads and piracy is still rampant even when looking at Steam games; some Steam games don't even use the encryption and run directly from the folder.

I once suggested that the answer was to make better games and rely on good faith rather than DRM (like CD Projekt RED does) and was told never to suggest that in front of the publisher or CEO...

If there was even a chance that EQNext and Landmark would be profitable relative to their current investment (and future investment requirements), Sony would have kept SOE under it's umbrella.
Actually, if you know the history, SoE was cut loose previously. Sony wanted to focus 989 Studios on sports games for PlayStation, something which did not match the PC-only RPG Smedley was making.

Publishers do it all the time; when Eidos got bought, a whole load of studios went independent because Square Enix wanted to focus on a specific set of genres. It is not a sign that the games won't make a profit, just an admission that the publisher is not interested / knowledgeable when it comes to those games.

[GnashingOfTeeth]

I wonder if this will affect P99 we don't know how litigious these new IP holders are and even if P99 doesn't break any laws I doubt they can afford a drawn out legal battle.

http://kotaku.com/sony-sells-off-studio-behind-everquest-h1z1-1683267881

Dom, buddy, pal. The kingslayer? Really?
Cmon, more realistic, but stream again, we need quality.

[Red_Psyphon]

1. Start up
2. Buy in
3. Sell out
4. Bro Down

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I think EQNext is done. No parent company sells off a major division of the company when said division is in the middle of developing a flagship product - not unless something is very wrong. If there was even a chance that EQNext and Landmark would be profitable relative to their current investment (and future investment requirements), Sony would have kept SOE under it's umbrella.

So yeah . . . Sony no doubt saw the staggering low players numbers for Landmark and realized that neither game was going to generate a sufficient ROI to justify keeping the studio. I'd say that this sale is really a monument to Smedley's stupidity - the culmination of all his horrible decisions and direction over the years. If only they had used the template of classic Everquest; a subscription-only model, with updated graphics and better quests and mechanics . . . man, it would have worked wonders.

I disagree. I think Sony and the new owners of SOE realized, the dynamic nature of EQNext, which will be giving all of us a new vision of one of the most exciting and pioneering online games of all time, required some corporate right-sizing and a more nimble and agile management approach to take the Everquest franchise and SOE to the next level.

Sell off any salable assets, technology, and intellectual property and have the place lights out in 4 months.

Coffee is for closers, Smed.

[khanable]

https://twitter.com/DaybreakGames

Daybreak wants some fan-made logos

Someone do something awesome, quick

[Kadron]

Too bad this didn't happen before they shut down Vanguard. That is the only real game they had that still has a lot of potential.

[Ofaelol]

Speaking about a hypothetical world in which someone could launch an EQ Returns Kickstarter,

Brad McQuaid's "hardcore MMO" new IP had 3k backers on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen)who pledged $400k. There are apparently people still interested in a EQ like experience on a modern engine.

[Tiggles]

Speaking about a hypothetical world in which someone could launch an EQ Returns Kickstarter,

Brad McQuaid's "hardcore MMO" new IP had 3k backers on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen)who pledged $400k. There are apparently people still interested in a EQ like experience on a modern engine.

You must not know much about Pantheon if you are using that as an example for anything.

[Tiggles]

http://www.rerolled.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89604&d=1422978629

[Paleman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/562646784644616193/4gKK388y.jpeg


quite a fan logo they have there

[Paleman]

You must not know much about Pantheon if you are using that as an example for anything.

yeah brad fucked that up royally, but if you think about it the point still stands. If someone did what brad was trying to do, did it the right way and didnt have an addiction to opiates there might be an argument on there being a niche market for a high fantasy hardcore mmo. Im not saying its gonna bring in WoW money, but it could be a good long term investment for the company who can pull it off.

[myriverse]

Pantheon's entire awesomeness was Brad.
Pantheon's entire problem was Brad.

Still, just because 4k people gave to a Kickstarter doesn't mean a damn thing. It especially doesn't mean there's enough interest to support a game.

But there was nothing very "hardcore" about classic EQ. Most of the people I played with in 1999 were non-traditional gamers.

[Ofaelol]

You must not know much about Pantheon if you are using that as an example for anything.

I know nothing about Pantheon. My point was about interest in the same-ish genre as P1999.



Still, just because 4k people gave to a Kickstarter doesn't mean a damn thing. It especially doesn't mean there's enough interest to support a game.


If P99 had 4k paying subscribers it would be a thriving business.

[kaev]

corporate right-sizing

You go wash your mouth out with soap this instant! We'll have none of that foul, disgusting language around here, do you hear me!

[Millburn]

But how many of us cancelled our live accounts to play p99? I sure did.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that there's less people who left live for P99 than there are who play P99 or no EQ at all. A lot of us have no desire to play what EQ became after PoP so if anything this might even encourage Daybreak to run a legitimate progression server considering the latent demand for it still. (Although I'm not holding my breath)

[Mentathiel]

If P99 had 4k paying subscribers it would be a thriving business.
Yeah...

You might think $720k a year (4k subscriptions at $15/month) is a lot, but that's pathetic to any real development studio. That's 'flappy bird clone' kind of money.

[Big_Japan]

RIP EQNext

Like this was ever a question. l0l

[Swish]

Yeah...

You might think $720k a year (4k subscriptions at $15/month) is a lot, but that's pathetic to any real development studio. That's 'flappy bird clone' kind of money.

Yeah I wouldn't get out of bed to work for 5% of that... :rolleyes:

[Big_Japan]

Really, it's a much better fit for the SOE crew than an ostensibly legitimate parent company considering their business model.

Expect everything that made SOE such an awful company in the first place to be turned up to 11 as they loot everything they can from you plebs with no need for regard of their parent company's image or the future. Slash and burn. After all, they work directly for the pros now - not people who have to hide behind imaginary product quality. And when they're done raping you under this name, the "creative geniuses" behind the scenes can "break free" yet again, reorganize into a fresh disposable company and convince you to buy another pile of shit.

[Arturo Fuente]

But how many of us cancelled our live accounts to play p99? I sure did.

+1

[Man0warr]

Let's be honest - EverQuest was a fluke.

Brad stole most of what we consider good game design from DikuMUD anyways and they just plopped a 3D world onto it. Someone had to do it, but Brad, SOE, and Smedley haven't shown us any other brilliance since then to equate EQ's success to anything but luck.

[maskedmelon]

I cannot imagine there are many who cancelled a live account for this. Most here have been away from live since PoP or earlier.

[Evia]

If only they had used the template of classic Everquest; a subscription-only model, with updated graphics and better quests and mechanics . . . man, it would have worked wonders.

I agree. I was hoping that was what they were going to do when they announced EQ2, and again with EQnext. I don't see them ever doing that though but I totally believe it would be successful. Honestly if I had a ton of money this is what I'd be investing it. I'd make no drastic changes to EQ1 besides maybe improving on the quests and mechanics as you mentioned. I'd keep the heart and soul (as well as all the areas, classes, races) exactly the same.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Unfortunately, long-playing subscription-based MMOs is a niche market now. The industry is headed toward F2P, consoles and mobile gaming . We're delusional and looking to recapture faded glory if think otherwise.

[Mentathiel]

Let's be honest - EverQuest was a fluke.

Brad stole most of what we consider good game design from DikuMUD anyways and they just plopped a 3D world onto it. Someone had to do it, but Brad, SOE, and Smedley haven't shown us any other brilliance since then to equate EQ's success to anything but luck.
Management, not luck.

The two factors which made EQ work, I would suggest were; a) Knowing that they were making it up as they went along, and b) having someone there to say 'no' as loudly and as often as possible.

At the start, you can bet that they were all asking themselves whether each new feature was a good idea and running it by Sony to make sure the publisher was onboard. Every feature they added to the DikuMUD concepts would have been examined and evaluated until they were all happy that it added to rather than took away from the players' experience.

After release, they were tweaking it and the classic expansions (Kunark / Velious) let them respond to the larger issues and to put in the things they cut from the original design to fit the development period. Things like the epic quests were just more of what worked for them in the first place, Kunark and Velious (geography) were based on lessons learned while building the old world zones.

And then they became victims of their own success...

Looking at classic EQ, wouldn't you have trusted Smedley? Given free reign (or at least less oversight) based on their success, they got a little out of hand. They stopped second-guessing, but they also stopped questioning.

They were not the first and they will not be the last; I mean, after leaving Lionhead, the man who gave us Populous and Dungeon Keeper created a 'game' where people paid for tiny pickaxes to break open a virtual box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_%E2%80%93_What%27s_Inside_the_Cube%3F). Genius or not, designers need someone to slap them back down to Earth from time to time.

Pantheon needed to fail, if only to serve as a reminder that Brad McQuaid was human and I suppose maybe EQ Next needs to fail too, so Smedley can learn the same lesson. Maybe they will learn, maybe they will come together, maybe they will even work out where it all started to go wrong and start again with a strong conviction not to let it happen again.

Personally, I think the true spiritual successor to EQ will be made by a pair of developers who don't really know 100% what they are doing, but know what they love to play and want to get it out of their heads and into a virtual space. Maybe it'll be an Oculus Rift game, maybe it'll made use of the Windows 10 HoloLens, but the developers will not really understand what they have done until they are staring at 10-million monthly subscribers.

Everquest's success was never about McQuaid and Smedley, nor Koster and Vogel; it was all about passionate devs who didn't know what they were doing and had the right team to fall back on. The same as Runescape, the same as Minecraft, the same as Elite, the same as Donkey Kong, the same as Pac-Man.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Management, not luck.

The two factors which made EQ work, I would suggest were; a) Knowing that they were making it up as they went along, and b) having someone there to say 'no' as loudly and as often as possible.

At the start, you can bet that they were all asking themselves whether each new feature was a good idea and running it by Sony to make sure the publisher was onboard. Every feature they added to the DikuMUD concepts would have been examined and evaluated until they were all happy that it added to rather than took away from the players' experience.

After release, they were tweaking it and the classic expansions (Kunark / Velious) let them respond to the larger issues and to put in the things they cut from the original design to fit the development period. Things like the epic quests were just more of what worked for them in the first place, Kunark and Velious (geography) were based on lessons learned while building the old world zones.

And then they became victims of their own success...

Looking at classic EQ, wouldn't you have trusted Smedley? Given free reign (or at least less oversight) based on their success, they got a little out of hand. They stopped second-guessing, but they also stopped questioning.

They were not the first and they will not be the last; I mean, after leaving Lionhead, the man who gave us Populous and Dungeon Keeper created a 'game' where people paid for tiny pickaxes to break open a virtual box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_%E2%80%93_What%27s_Inside_the_Cube%3F). Genius or not, designers need someone to slap them back down to Earth from time to time.

Pantheon needed to fail, if only to serve as a reminder that Brad McQuaid was human and I suppose maybe EQ Next needs to fail too, so Smedley can learn the same lesson. Maybe they will learn, maybe they will come together, maybe they will even work out where it all started to go wrong and start again with a strong conviction not to let it happen again.

Personally, I think the true spiritual successor to EQ will be made by a pair of developers who don't really know 100% what they are doing, but know what they love to play and want to get it out of their heads and into a virtual space. Maybe it'll be an Oculus Rift game, maybe it'll made use of the Windows 10 HoloLens, but the developers will not really understand what they have done until they are staring at 10-million monthly subscribers.

Everquest's success was never about McQuaid and Smedley, nor Koster and Vogel; it was all about passionate devs who didn't know what they were doing and had the right team to fall back on. The same as Runescape, the same as Minecraft, the same as Elite, the same as Donkey Kong, the same as Pac-Man.

This is a great post!
I must add - pretty much same thing happened to WoW.
They hoped for 500k players (looking at EQ1 at its prime) they got nearly 1mln within first year. And then they screw everything up by the time they hit 10M.

[fastboy21]

Management, not luck.

The two factors which made EQ work, I would suggest were; a) Knowing that they were making it up as they went along, and b) having someone there to say 'no' as loudly and as often as possible.

At the start, you can bet that they were all asking themselves whether each new feature was a good idea and running it by Sony to make sure the publisher was onboard. Every feature they added to the DikuMUD concepts would have been examined and evaluated until they were all happy that it added to rather than took away from the players' experience.

After release, they were tweaking it and the classic expansions (Kunark / Velious) let them respond to the larger issues and to put in the things they cut from the original design to fit the development period. Things like the epic quests were just more of what worked for them in the first place, Kunark and Velious (geography) were based on lessons learned while building the old world zones.

And then they became victims of their own success...

Looking at classic EQ, wouldn't you have trusted Smedley? Given free reign (or at least less oversight) based on their success, they got a little out of hand. They stopped second-guessing, but they also stopped questioning.

They were not the first and they will not be the last; I mean, after leaving Lionhead, the man who gave us Populous and Dungeon Keeper created a 'game' where people paid for tiny pickaxes to break open a virtual box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_%E2%80%93_What%27s_Inside_the_Cube%3F). Genius or not, designers need someone to slap them back down to Earth from time to time.

Pantheon needed to fail, if only to serve as a reminder that Brad McQuaid was human and I suppose maybe EQ Next needs to fail too, so Smedley can learn the same lesson. Maybe they will learn, maybe they will come together, maybe they will even work out where it all started to go wrong and start again with a strong conviction not to let it happen again.

Personally, I think the true spiritual successor to EQ will be made by a pair of developers who don't really know 100% what they are doing, but know what they love to play and want to get it out of their heads and into a virtual space. Maybe it'll be an Oculus Rift game, maybe it'll made use of the Windows 10 HoloLens, but the developers will not really understand what they have done until they are staring at 10-million monthly subscribers.

Everquest's success was never about McQuaid and Smedley, nor Koster and Vogel; it was all about passionate devs who didn't know what they were doing and had the right team to fall back on. The same as Runescape, the same as Minecraft, the same as Elite, the same as Donkey Kong, the same as Pac-Man.

I agree with much of this.

The original devs of EQ were real gamers. They were treading new water with the MMO delivery, but they brought years of real life gaming experience into their management styles. This is one of the reasons why EQ feels so natural to folks who came to it from pen and paper games like dungeons and dragons.

Nowadays, it is all about finding a viable business model and delivering content for consumption. There is hardly as much, if any, effort put into actually "running" the game after launch. In fact, most games today are designed to run themselves after launch with minimal GM interaction with the actual game. If you have real customer service people in-game that is about as much as you can actually hope for; gone are the days of server GMs and real GM events.

The result is that new MMOs are fun, but they have the replay-ability of going on a good roller coaster over and over again. Its fun for a while, but eventually the game loses its meaning. EQ, on the other hand, despite being a tremendously "static" by modern MMO standards can go on much much longer without losing its enjoyability.

Do you think anyone in 10 years is going to crave a classic RIFT or Secret World MMO? The idea is almost laughable.

[Millburn]

Do you think anyone in 10 years is going to crave a classic RIFT or Secret World MMO? The idea is almost laughable.

Funny that you mention this now as there just started up a legitimate classic Darkfall project. I mean your point still stands tall considering Darkfall was made with Ultima Online in mind and largely adhered to the unforgiving characteristics of Gen 1 MMO's. I was just reminded of it when reading your post is all. You make really good points.

[Paleman]

there wont be a game like eq. EQ was made in a perfect storm. It made a market more mainstream, didnt have any more successful ventures to compare to ( WoW) and didnt have any meta game to build on ( raiding, grouping, etc) so all the content was a shot in the dark. Hell even if they brought the ideas to someone higher up I doubt there was anyone who would understand it enough to OK it or say NO to it where it would provide much validity. Things were new and experimental then, not so much now.

I agree with mentathiel, the only way something good may come is if new blood make their dream game, not looking for profits, just people looking to make their ideal game without any pressure or peer review. Thats another thing that probably made eq great. It is what it is, parts of it sucked, parts were frustrating, but the combination of those things and the anomalous things that could happen in the game make it great.

[khanable]

seriously, someone make an HD 2d ultima online game with EQ's lore and i'll actually buy the 12 month subscription plan

[Mentathiel]

But these are the AAA, "we have seen the formula and know how to follow it" kind of games. If you want to compare EQ to any game, it needs to be a "we think we know what we are doing here" game like Shards. I might even argue that (while coming from another genre) EVE Online and Elite: Dangerous are better analogies. If it had ever come to fruition, Hero's Journey would have been on my list too.

Interesting games fell by the way-side; Shadowbane had such potential, the original incarnation of Ryzom was something I could have played for years; but instead of showing people what could be done, they were used as ways to justify hiding from innovation and avoiding risks.

Above all though, I think the issue with modern MMORPGs is the lack of emergence; they have a set of pre-defined storylines (SWTOR is the worst for this, but they embrace it rather than hiding it) which makes every story a carbon copy defined by race and class. In SWTOR, even the race is not relevant; they have one story per class and it never changes. Even the armour and weapons you have (a trend which starts in EQ with the epic quest) will tend to be fixed and based on a very small number of options.

When someone asks my level-60 rogue in EQ3 how she acquired her armour, I want to be able to tell them the story and have the level-60 rogue standing next to her in equivalent armour listen in rapt fascination because it is new and exciting to them. Project 1999 is, to me, about heterogeneity; our stories are all so very different (except for the unfortunates who rushed to level 50 and didn't stop to savour a bottle of Innoruuk's Kiss of Death with a gnome they met on the boat from Faydwer to Freeport or take shelter from the rain in Qeynos with a dark-elf enchanter who has slowly gained the acceptance of the Knights of Thunder) and modern MMOs have robbed us of that.

I remember as a guide in Everquest, I was once tasked with sitting in Felwithe near the water and handing out milk and cookies. They were not even magical, just mundane (summoned from a clicky) milk and cookies talking to newbies. And then players came, higher level players who ate some cookies and drank some milk. They fished, they shared their catch, they told stories. This was not even a roleplay server, it was just the magic of EQ and a guide handing out milk and cookies.

I can't see that happening in WoW or on Live these days. I am not even sure it was meant to happen back then; I think it was just meant to hand out food and drink as a PR thing, but players saw a GM and their expectations created a unique event. All I did was hand out milk and cookies while it all unfolded around me.

So... er... what was the topic again?

[Paleman]

so its obvious why everquest has such long term interest. Its because it satisfies existing in a fantasy land. Its one of the only games that does that for me aside from vanguard. It makes you feel like doing little things matter.

In WoW or other games it just seems like they dull your senses when it comes to giving you rewards. Its not really about existing, its about consuming content, getting the best of things. EQ is one of the few games where you can be content without leveling, where you can enjoy a game just as much at the middle as the end. Thats what it was up to the end of luclin, until PoP made the whole game top heavy. People need a reason to exist in these games, not just race to the end.

[stormlord]

Unfortunately, long-playing subscription-based MMOs is a niche market now. The industry is headed toward F2P, consoles and mobile gaming . We're delusional and looking to recapture faded glory if think otherwise.
PC gaming is still big, very big. BUT there's no question it has changed a lot over the years. Game companies are making games now which (more and more) run on PC and Console. More companies are also looking at ways to exploit hte mobile market. And I haven't missed how many websites now adopt a unified layout which is friendly to mobiles. Note how this "unification" impacted PC's because it essentially forces all of the platforms to use the same interface. One of hte biggest signs of how mobile computing affects PCs is Windows 8. It doth not require a genius to understand Microsoft thought a mobile-friendly OS which runs on PC's would make them rich. And even companies which have the PC in mind, it still often makes money sense for them to use the SAME software interface for all their platforms. And despite their best efforts the PC end is going to get some crossover from other platforms just simply because it's using the same framework.

(I'm not saying Windows 8 did great, but don't be a foool and miss my message)

I think it's the TYPE of game which matters increasingly. Which type? SOCIAL. Just as the pursuit of a common programming interface for both PC's and mobiles has caused companies like Microsoft to create Windows 8 and vast numbers of websites to adopt the flat colorful mobile-friendly layout, all genres of gaming will, in some way, adopt conventions of social gaming.

Look here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/4097/Scott-Jennings-Farmville-Killed-Gaming-VWorlds-And-Your-Dog.html
"It was easier ten years ago... when you'd just ship a great product and the users pay you up front," [Pacific Crest analyst Evan] Wilson says. "Those days are over."

From there, he raises a controversial question: "How important is game development when you have poor quality free social games generating these kinds of numbers?"

Media companies only care about daily average uniques, Wilson continues. "The industry has been moving in that direction rapidly and it's accelerating and it's scary," he adds. "It is a big, big issue when some of the leading social gaming companies can get over 20 million players on a game in nine days," he adds -- even the best AAA titles can't pull those numbers.

[CreamyCowboy]

so its obvious why everquest has such long term interest. Its because it satisfies existing in a fantasy land. Its one of the only games that does that for me aside from vanguard. It makes you feel like doing little things matter.

In WoW or other games it just seems like they dull your senses when it comes to giving you rewards. Its not really about existing, its about consuming content, getting the best of things. EQ is one of the few games where you can be content without leveling, where you can enjoy a game just as much at the middle as the end. Thats what it was up to the end of luclin, until PoP made the whole game top heavy. People need a reason to exist in these games, not just race to the end.

MMO's after EQ were just so linear. There was basically a set path with an arrow to follow. Do quests in this area .. last quest takes you to the next area etc.

EQ you were just throwing into the world left to figure it out on your own basically. That's what was and still is great about it. You choose your own path that you want to take in a huge world. Venture into an area with nothing but red cons .. probably wise to turn around and go somewheres else heh.

The whole grind and upgrading your armor, looking forward to new spell lines, grouping with folks along the way is what it's all about for me. In EQ there are unique items that everyone wants and only few have. You can identify what people have by the looks of the items and what not.

Once everything became button clicking and following exclamation points to the next area is when it got stale with other mmo's.

It was so awesome when I was watching a friend play kunark era, he was running around in oasis and showing me sand giants from halfway across the map. Then some guys were killing cazel .. it was very exciting to watch.

When I finally made a character, he was like "stick to the trails or you'll get lost!" ( I was a wood elf ranger in kelethin ). Falling off the tree houses to your death was hilarious.

[stormlord]

so its obvious why everquest has such long term interest. Its because it satisfies existing in a fantasy land. Its one of the only games that does that for me aside from vanguard. It makes you feel like doing little things matter.

In WoW or other games it just seems like they dull your senses when it comes to giving you rewards. Its not really about existing, its about consuming content, getting the best of things. EQ is one of the few games where you can be content without leveling, where you can enjoy a game just as much at the middle as the end. Thats what it was up to the end of luclin, until PoP made the whole game top heavy. People need a reason to exist in these games, not just race to the end.
Nvm.

I'll just say one thing and keep it simple. If you're playing to get +something stats or levels then you're either playing it wrong or you're not enjoying it anymore. Find something new.

This is not directed at the person I'm replying to. I made a reply but then thought "You konw, I'm an ass****." So rather than babbling on into the winds, I'll just stop here.

[Paleman]

Nvm.

I'll just say one thing and keep it simple. If you're playing to get +something stats or levels then you're either playing it wrong or you're not enjoying it anymore. Find something new.

This is not directed at the person I'm replying to. I made a reply but then thought "You konw, I'm an ass****." So rather than babbling on into the winds, I'll just stop here.

i dont agree with what you say, I think that this is one of the few games where both options are viable forms of play ( you can joke around with friends and get nowhere and have fun, or raid camp items and have fun too.) its all about what you want to do.

[Taffan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NRri9hGhek&feature=youtu.be

heheheh

I lost it at "Smedbucks"

[TheBlackSheep]

Nothing new. PC games have been dumbing down, substituting eye candy for substance since the resurgence of the console platform. Hell the PC game itself is now a niche market.

(cough) Dragon Age Inquisition (cough)

[TheBlackSheep]

I lost it at "Smedbucks"

Same here. In fact, just your mention of that made me laugh out loud again.

[Mirana]

Everquest is the only game in which I've enjoyed the journey as much as the destination (and I'm entirely destination, results oriented by nature). I cannot say how it accomplishes this, I haven't really thought about it.

I have not found another game that felt the same way.

[untergang]

Everquest is the only game in which I've enjoyed the journey as much as the destination (and I'm entirely destination, results oriented by nature). I cannot say how it accomplishes this, I haven't really thought about it.

I have not found another game that felt the same way.

For me, it was the mixture of aesthetics (EverQuest was an impressive looking game for its time, considering its massive scope) and non-linearity. I was a big King's Field fan and EverQuest had a similar vibe, except now I was exploring a brand new world with hundreds of other people (I was in phase 3 beta) . It was my dream game, basically.

Vanilla WoW was the closest there was to a spiritual successor to EverQuest. It was certainly closer in feel to EverQuest than EverQuest 2 ended up being. It even had some zones, like Dun Morogh and Shimmering Flats, that were directly influenced by zones in EverQuest (EverFrost and Ro/Oasis). The only thing holding it back was the linear leveling structure that was forced on you via quest chains and instanced dungeons.

That said, if there was a vanilla WoW server that was as well-scripted as Project 1999, I'd probably be playing there, but I'd still be playing here, too.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

For me, it was the mixture of aesthetics (EverQuest was an impressive looking game for its time, considering its massive scope) and non-linearity. I was a big King's Field fan and EverQuest had a similar vibe, except now I was exploring a brand new world with hundreds of other people (I was in phase 3 beta) . It was my dream game, basically.

Vanilla WoW was the closest there was to a spiritual successor to EverQuest. It was certainly closer in feel to EverQuest than EverQuest 2 ended up being. It even had some zones, like Dun Morogh and Shimmering Flats, that were directly influenced by zones in EverQuest (EverFrost and Ro/Oasis). The only thing holding it back was the linear leveling structure that was forced on you via quest chains and instanced dungeons.

That said, if there was a vanilla WoW server that was as well-scripted as Project 1999, I'd probably be playing there, but I'd still be playing here, too.

God, King's Field 2. Maybe one of the best PS1 games. Soooooo good.

[Inglourious-Fail]

God, King's Field 2. Maybe one of the best PS1 games. Soooooo good.

oh yea

[Shrubwise]

That said, if there was a vanilla WoW server that was as well-scripted as Project 1999, I'd probably be playing there, but I'd still be playing here, too.

Im keeping my eye on Kronos (Kronos-WoW.com)

It looks promising but they have failed to meet release deadlines and I kind of feel like it will not come to fruition, or perhaps not in the foreseeable future.

[Loftus]

I am unsure how anyone could claim that the new Everquest IP owner would not want to protect it and shut off anything potentially taking away from said IP, including a perceived player-base, but I digress.

As someone mentioned earlier, I think part of the success of EQ was timing. There will need to be a second "perfect storm" of technology, creativity and means before we see what happened in 1999 happen again.

[Leeyuuduu]

I am unsure how anyone could claim that the new Everquest IP owner would not want to protect it and shut off anything potentially taking away from said IP, including a perceived player-base, but I digress.

You mean it's possible to get more douchey than Smed?
This is scary news indeed.

P1999 IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, MURICA

[pasi]

For me, it was the mixture of aesthetics (EverQuest was an impressive looking game for its time, considering its massive scope) and non-linearity. I was a big King's Field fan and EverQuest had a similar vibe, except now I was exploring a brand new world with hundreds of other people (I was in phase 3 beta) . It was my dream game, basically.

Vanilla WoW was the closest there was to a spiritual successor to EverQuest. It was certainly closer in feel to EverQuest than EverQuest 2 ended up being. It even had some zones, like Dun Morogh and Shimmering Flats, that were directly influenced by zones in EverQuest (EverFrost and Ro/Oasis). The only thing holding it back was the linear leveling structure that was forced on you via quest chains and instanced dungeons.

That said, if there was a vanilla WoW server that was as well-scripted as Project 1999, I'd probably be playing there, but I'd still be playing here, too.

Feenix's WoW servers. Emerald Dream in particular is a very solid vanilla WoW server. There's some minor things that Feenix does with their other servers such as vote points and donations, but it caps out at BWL-level stuff. I don't believe Emerald Dream had that when I played.

The one issue that you have with a Vanilla WoW server versus Vanilla EQ is that WoW had massive overhaul patches within expansions. EQ had patches with some changes, but there weren't anything close to the extent WoW had.

These servers run 1.12.1 which is the last patch prior to 2.0.1 which released TBC talents and what not. From there, they enable or disable content to fit a time line. So, there's massive differences in combat mechanics, talent trees, class balance, NPC loot tables, etc. than there otherwise should be for particular zones.

To draw a parallel to EQ, this would be like playing Kunark zones with Shadows of Luclin AAs, spells, and zone-revamps.