The death of the rotation

[Pint]

http://galleries.guildlaunch.net/283719/proposal_19291Pop.png

---------------------Revised proposal after 7 of 10 guilds said no--------------

http://galleries.guildlaunch.net/283719/Proposal_21501Pop.png

This is the death of the player made rotation. For those that do not fully understand why these terms were unacceptable: Gorenaire and Talendor are the two hardest encounters outside of VP. To enter "tier 2" you must solo kill Talendor at any time of day which then grants you access to kill Dracoliche, Maestro and Faydedar. To enter "tier 3" (access to every epic in the game) you must solo kill Gorenaire at any time of day which then grants you access to the remaining gods and dragons (all of the loot worth actually going for). What this does is create two impossible entry points for any guilds that wish to join the rotation in the future as well as knocking 7 of the long term rotation member guilds out of contention for Venril Sathir, Innoruuk, Cazic Thule, Trakanon and Severilous. The terms in both proposals are unacceptable to the representatives of the 7 class R guilds who are not BDA, Taken and Divinity.

The reason I have brought this to raid discussion is to eliminate the rampant misinformation that surrounds any big change in this servers politics. Our guilds did not simply decide the rotation would no longer continue, we tried very hard to reason with the other 3 guilds and they simply would not yield as you can see by the second proposal being even more of a joke than the first. These proposals were very clearly designed to force the dissolution of the rotation.

The p99 rotation was player made and has been player dissolved. We had a good run and in my opinion it has been the healthiest time in this servers history.

[arsenalpow]

Well AG is mulling the V2 proposal, but if all the guilds that ally up to kill mobs are going to disagree then I guess y'all would rather have full FFA in class R as opposed to tighter controls. Your call really.

[Pint]

Well AG is mulling the V2 proposal, but if all the guilds that ally up to kill mobs are going to disagree then I guess y'all would rather have full FFA in class R as opposed to tighter controls. Your call really.

You need to have a little more respect for your peers and own your decisions.

[Hyjal]

This is wildly exciting. Those rotation guidelines are totally unacceptable and favor the top guilds in the rotation.

Want to take on the rotation overlords? Join up with Doljonijiarnimorinar.

[Hyjal]

When you need a lawyer to understand the rules of engagement, there are obvious signs of overreach and favoritism. That rotation guideline is living proof the rotation is nothing more than a PR move to favor the bigger guilds and to stunt the growth of everyone else. If the rotation were to die today, who benefits the most?

Strong arming at its finest.

[Anichek]

You need to have a little more respect for your peers and own your decisions.

Let's not turn Raid Discussion into an RnF thread.

BDA, who has remained neutral on almost every single front and concern inside Class R (and when not neutral, has sided with the majority or the smaller guilds) has brought forward some change.

This is the first iteration where change has been proposed and backed by BDA that has anything but a net positive impact to the smaller guilds, and net negative to the bigger guilds. The funny thing is, that net negative impact impacts every guild in the rotation.


Accountability - when you're up for a mob, you kill it, with something resembling a sense of urgency (60 minutes on most, 90 on CT)
Commitment - if you ally on one mob, ally on them all. Don't water down lists with splits on some, teams on another.
Progression - it already occurs naturally, as guilds grow...why not build the structure around it?


We all will have to be more sharp on our toes, due to the shorter engages and 100% full raid window accountability for the solo guild or your alliance occupying that slot. It's a uniform policy that applies to all guilds in the rotation, not targeted at one guild.

We believe it's fair that if you ally on raid content, ally on all of it in a rotation system. Once again, a decision that each guild makes when they enter the rotation - team up, go solo, etc. BDA's not force feeding your choices to you.

What you do as a guild on FFA mobs is up to you, the buddy system wouldn't apply in an FFA situation (both on Class R FFA and on Server FFA)

[Pint]

I want to argue with you two but I think its clear enough that you'll do the most damage to yourselves if we just let you continue trying to push the idea that progression involves jumping from naggy and vox to talendor so that you can then kill draco and maestro.

[Hyjal]

Good luck to the members of Azure Guard, Asgard, Indigntion, Divinity, A-team, and whoever else I missed. You will either be strong armed into agreeing to whatever terms Taken and BDA give you, or put in a position you are completely unprepared for.

Not here to troll. I have only been stating this for a year. Those rules should be summed up in one simple paragraph. Not tailored to benefit a certain few.

Vox and Nagafen to Talendor? LOLOLOLOL

[Hyjal]

Order of difficulty pertaining to level, and the least amount of players needed to kill target. (no racing involved). Let me remind folks that classic targets are meant for level 50s. This list can certainly be argued, but its definitely close.

Classic

1. Maestro (classic target)
2. Dracoliche (classic target)
3. Innoruuk (DPS fight due to DT and a classic target)
4. Cazic Thule (DPS fight due to DT and a classic target)
5. Lady Vox and Lord Nagafen (how many small guilds have alts prepared to do this? They are the most difficult for new guilds to attempt out of all classic targets due to level restrictions)

Kunark

6. Faydedar (Need 60s to resist AE)
7. Venril Sathir (Need enchanters and solid DPS)
8. Sev (Need plenty of 60s to resist AE)
9. Talendor (Need plenty of 60s to resist AE)
10. Trakanon (Need plenty of 60s to resist AE)
10. Gorenaire (Hardest Kunark target outside of VP)



So let me get this straight. In order to move up to kill the good loot mobs (which are easier) you have to kill one of the hardest Kunark Dragons in the game? Also in order to even get that far you have to have and alt army prepared enough to kill Vox and Nagafen when its easier to kill ANY classic target over those 2 due to level restrictions?

Yikes.

[rafaone]

We had a good run and in my opinion it has been the healthiest time in this servers history.

I completely agree with this.

[Pan]

The terms in both proposals are unacceptable to the representatives of the 7 class R guilds who are not BDA, Taken and Divinity.


True for Omni. Talks are ongoing now among us all that we expect will have a civil tenor and a productive outcome.

Cloki - Omni

[bktroost]

aaaaand NOW the rotation is over. For those without board access and would like an insight on current dealings, there was a 5th proposal by BDA which was given a deadline of 12pm EST Monday the 2nd. AG, Europa, Omni and A-Team rejected the proposal with a plea for more time to continue negotiations. BDA did not respond to such pleas formally before Divinity announced they would be going FFA from this point forward. Message was posted 12:18 om EST. For the sake of sacrosanctness, I will not post that message here without Divinity's permission.

Now to work out how Class R FFA will differ from Class C FFA. More updates to come!

[Pint]

Asgard also rejected v5 which was just another rewrite of v1, v2, etc. Unfortunately our FAP representative burned out early in "negotiations" when it became apparent that certain entities were only interested in walling off epic mobs for themselves. So much for the era of "play styles" :rolleyes:

[Anichek]

Asgard also rejected v5 which was just another rewrite of v1, v2, etc. Unfortunately our FAP representative burned out early in "negotiations" when it became apparent that certain entities were only interested in walling off epic mobs for themselves. So much for the era of "play styles" :rolleyes:

Funny, because I just received a PM on the FAP boards from him and there was nothing inflammatory nor negative about it.

Asgard didn't reject V.5

Hi Ani, sorry I missed the deadline. I actually have been kind of trying to sequester myself and come up with my own proposal. It's a little radical, but it's something I think is pretty cool. Current working title is 'A Game of Slots: A Class R Metagame'. Other than that I've had a few RL obligations and... holy crap, we're FFA now? Haha.

Might not be relevant at this point but I can't post in the guild leader section atm, not sure if that's recent as a result of R FFA or since I'm a liaison and not a leader.

I'm hoping that the lack of timely response from other guilds is a result of bad timing on the deadline rather than stonewalling.

I haven't fully digested V5 yet and not even sure my other officers have gotten a chance to look at it yet, so can't say for sure but I think I could tentatively ratify it, because it does look pretty good and I think Asgard could succeed in it. I might want to haggle over a couple points like 90 minutes for CT and whatnot, but... what I'd really like is to finish up my own proposal and have everyone take a look.


I replied that I welcome seeing whatever proposal he comes up with, to review and see if it's viable on fronts both for the BDA/Taken/Div contingency, and the "other" contingency. Seems like Asgard wants to really put effort into moving forward and getting some framework into place to me....and even though things have stalled for now, I will certainly look at whatever gets sent my way, because ultimately no guilds in this want the year+ of work to fade to black.

[Pint]

Asgard didn't reject V.5


Let me make this easy on you. Asgard rejects v5.