Simulated Repop and Moving all characters to West Commons

[Daldaen]

Nilbog mentioned this...

How viable is it? I know on the beta server when you copy over it will reset everyone to North Ro... Is it doable to do this on Live server, even with taking the server down for 2 minutes to move everyone.

That would be glorious. One of the most glorious things we have ever seen.

[Ravager]

Nilbog mentioned this...

How viable is it? I know on the beta server when you copy over it will reset everyone to North Ro... Is it doable to do this on Live server, even with taking the server down for 2 minutes to move everyone.

That would be glorious. One of the most glorious things we have ever seen.

1200 people logging in to WC at once might be an issue.

[Daldaen]

Hrmm true. Maybe split guilds up between three zones with both druid and wizard portals?

Toxxulia, North Karana, Dreadlands, and West Commons each have double ports.

DL would be a bit more advantageous for Kunark targets. WC would be pretty solid. Tox and NK the rings and spires are quite separated.

Maybe it would just randomly does you at any typical druid or wizard ring. That would be entertaining.

[stakha]

What about the large portion of the server who doesn't care about the simulated repop and would have their gaming experience disturbed by such a (non-classic) move

[Daldaen]

It would /search.

If you're in a guild from Class C or Class R, you get moved. If you are not, you are left alone.

[Taminy]

It would /search.

If you're in a guild from Class C or Class R, you get moved. If you are not, you are left alone.

Would also have to only move level 46?+

Kind of either a dick move (or a blessing) to move lower level alts from their leveling spots.

[fastboy21]

this would be totally obnoxious for all the players that have no interest in the raid game.

[Daldaen]

I suppose that seems logical.

It would be pretty sweet.

[Daldaen]

this would be totally obnoxious for all the players that have no interest in the raid game.

See aforementioned only moving players who are in Class C and R raiding guilds. If you have no interest in raids, you aren't in those guilds.

[Tenlaar]

What a terrible idea.

[Sirken]

Nilbog mentioned this...

How viable is it? I know on the beta server when you copy over it will reset everyone to North Ro... Is it doable to do this on Live server, even with taking the server down for 2 minutes to move everyone.

That would be glorious. One of the most glorious things we have ever seen.

link for those that missed out - http://youtu.be/tqauzU4ig3M

[Joyelle]

CoTH bots and those certain guilds who don't want to race to Trakanon would cry huge salty tears.

[fastboy21]

See aforementioned only moving players who are in Class C and R raiding guilds. If you have no interest in raids, you aren't in those guilds.

this is not true. there are plenty of people, especially, in relaxed raiding guilds that do not drop everything they are doing just because of the server pop.

i would more support moving certain folks (i.e. guild tags) in certain zones (i.e. raiding zones and zones adjacent to raiding zones) to EC. including those that are logged out.

i don't know how possible that is, but it seems to provide the same counter-measure without the disruption to the non-raiding population.

[drktmplr12]

this has already gotten too complicated to be a simple solution

[Daldaen]

I think the portion of people who are in a Class C or Class R guild and partake in zero raids is very small.

46+ and in a Class C/R guild I think is fair enough to narrow it down.

[heartbrand]

lol blue

[Daldaen]

lol blue

True I much prefer 65-70 man zergs at known spawn times.

[fastboy21]

I think the portion of people who are in a Class C or Class R guild and partake in zero raids is very small.

46+ and in a Class C/R guild I think is fair enough to narrow it down.

actually, i think its a lot more than you think in the casual raiding guilds. There are plenty of folks that only log in for a few hours each week that aren't at all interested in the pixel chase.

[heartbrand]

True I much prefer 65-70 man zergs at known spawn times.

I love knowing that Monday's are Sky, Tuesday's are VS / Gore / Silverwing / Nexona / Hoshkar / Xygoz / Druushk, Wednesday's are Fay / CT, Thursday's are Phara Dar / Inny / Tal / Sev, and we have a fun Trakannon every 3 days.

[mgellan]

The solution offered for Class C/R 46+ people to allow for people who don't want to partake in the raiding scene is a message like a rez message - Raid today? (Y/N) - if they say no and still get on the aggro list of a raid mob, I'd say suspend them. Say yes and you get moved to a random firepot location so you can mobilize. Ergo no more poopsocking.

Regards,
Mg

[Gimp]

Unless it changes your bind, this is a pointless change.

[Daldaen]

Melee can't bind unless they drop 20k on a locket charge. And then burn 1k on a gate potion.

And you can bind in a single location. I think you overestimate the advantage that's going to give people.

Sure some Melee will locket at VP or DL. Will that give them the edge to win, meh maybe. Still beats the crap out of poopsocking and 16 hour variance.

[Juevento]

NOT CLASSIC!

[Gimp]

Melee can't bind unless they drop 20k on a locket charge. And then burn 1k on a gate potion.

And you can bind in a single location. I think you overestimate the advantage that's going to give people.

Sure some Melee will locket at VP or DL. Will that give them the edge to win, meh maybe. Still beats the crap out of poopsocking and 16 hour variance.

20k is nothing these days for the advantage a KC or VP bind provides.

[jpetrick]

What if im playing at 2am camping king and a repop happens. Its rare that my guild is ever going to batphone a 2am repop, so now I was just moved to wc when I had no intention of participating in the repop.

[nilbog]

Nilbog mentioned this...

How viable is it? I know on the beta server when you copy over it will reset everyone to North Ro... Is it doable to do this on Live server, even with taking the server down for 2 minutes to move everyone.

That would be glorious. One of the most glorious things we have ever seen.

I mentioned that during a conversation involving various nonclassic ways to fix camping out, and/or poopsocking raid targets. It was just a random idea.

I was actually going to type more on it, then I got called away, and left everyone hanging with a random idea lol. Sorry about that.

I had said when a raid npc pops, move characters of all raid guilds (online and offline) to west commons. My original thought was kerra ridge, but that benefits hat ports.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to fix camping out of which I'm aware. Always willing to listen to suggestions, but this is one of the reasons future mmos made instances.

[mokfarg]

That would ruin immersion. Would not make since why you would end up a location. Sounds as bad as other mechanics such as books in pok that were place for convenience rather than how it fit in the game world.

[Ravager]

I mentioned that during a conversation involving various nonclassic ways to fix camping out, and/or poopsocking raid targets. It was just a random idea.

I was actually going to type more on it, then I got called away, and left everyone hanging with a random idea lol. Sorry about that.

I had said when a raid npc pops, move characters of all raid guilds (online and offline) to west commons. My original thought was kerra ridge, but that benefits hat ports.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to fix camping out of which I'm aware. Always willing to listen to suggestions, but this is one of the reasons future mmos made instances.

As long as we're talking not classic: Dragons can fly. Gods are omnipotent. Just make them pop in random zones.

[Joyelle]

As long as we're talking not classic: Dragons can fly. Gods are omnipotent. Just make them pop in random zones.

this would be awesome

[khanable]

NOT CLASSIC!

[Daldaen]

I mentioned that during a conversation involving various nonclassic ways to fix camping out, and/or poopsocking raid targets. It was just a random idea.

I was actually going to type more on it, then I got called away, and left everyone hanging with a random idea lol. Sorry about that.

I had said when a raid npc pops, move characters of all raid guilds (online and offline) to west commons. My original thought was kerra ridge, but that benefits hat ports.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to fix camping out of which I'm aware. Always willing to listen to suggestions, but this is one of the reasons future mmos made instances.
I think limiting it to level 46 or 50+ characters would be cool. There are Alts and such in guilds that are EXPing in Unrest or City of Mist that wouldn't really want to be moved. Nor would they factor into any sort of raid situation other than maybe some low level clerics on Naggy/Vox. Even then those clerics will be bound at Naggy/Vox anyways so moving them is moot.

West Commons is nice as mentioned before due to proximity of two portals and WC caps. However there would need to be a little randomizing of spawn points. Having everyone on the same point would lead to issues with people getting stuck or dying from fall damage while they fall on top of the other 100 people logging in. Could you randomly get dropped somewhere between the wizard spire and the druid ring or something?

Also it's worth wondering how many people would be logging into WC and whether the zone could handle that stress? I think your stress tests have gotten up to mid 200s in EC before? I doubt WC would reach that, people would be forming groups ASAP and porting away. I expect due to rapid departure the zones traffic would clear out quickly.

People mention binding/gate potions being an advantage. I'd say they already are on Sim repops, so meh. Plus it's limited to very few mobs like Vox, Trak and VS. Everything else is close enough to a portal to not matter IMO

As Joyelle mentioned as well - Trakanon CotH bots would get punted to WC. I'm personally fine with this, it would make Trakanon a bit more classic with guilds clearing down to him. There probably would be some mushroom and jugg trains but that's just going to affect raiders so I don't think its a big deal.

I really hope this does happen. Would provide a more classic experience than 16-hour staring at wall variance windows. People rushing to mobilize to random targets when the server resets instead of logging in Alt 1 camped at mob X and Alt 2 camped at mob Y.

[Gooch]

Code raid zones no bind, kill every toon logged out in those zones when a raid mob pops (would have to be one time @ pop so you can still camp clerics before wipe), add random/variance to the spawn time. This wouldn't eliminate poopsocking, but it would definitely present a challenge and hurdle. Toons logged out in zone and caught in the mob pop DT would at worst spawn naked at the entrance in connecting zone (closest bind), that would make/nerf it so CoH only gets you to the point of where you start clearing (zone in). It would inconvenience those exping in such zones, but heh there's a price to pay for everything. This would make Vel raids like ST a lot harder, no tunnel CoH at arbitrator. Multiple raid mob zones could rotate mobs that pop and (DT those logged out) or make it all of them. Not classic, but better than instances. Also in line with classic being more difficult, no pixels on a platter.

While I'm on non classic, there shouldn't be raid bans. If you set rules and the rules are violated GMs should be allowed to spawn whatever mob they want on the violators next raid(s) at any time. Trak and Cazic or Phara Dar and Inny or... nothing more classic than raid wipe. lol

[Juevento]

Without coth bots, Trak would become an amazing all rogue raid.

Starting to like this idea!

[jake505]

I mentioned that during a conversation involving various nonclassic ways to fix camping out, and/or poopsocking raid targets. It was just a random idea.

I was actually going to type more on it, then I got called away, and left everyone hanging with a random idea lol. Sorry about that.

I had said when a raid npc pops, move characters of all raid guilds (online and offline) to west commons. My original thought was kerra ridge, but that benefits hat ports.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to fix camping out of which I'm aware. Always willing to listen to suggestions, but this is one of the reasons future mmos made instances.

Nibog here is an option to solve the camping out issue.

As an example imagine A-Team, Omni, and IB are in Sebilis when Trakanon pops.

Server side you query /who A-team,IB,Omni, you prompt them with Y/N rezz box saying "Are you participating in TRAKANON", you chose Yes you are ported, choose No and nothing happens. An alternative, easier implementation is a no-choice succor that is a guild level opt-in/out. In either scenario the guild members of IB,Omni,A-team are all flagged server side and all online members who want to participate are succored to a random place or WC.

If I freshly log in (within 1 hour of pop) and I'm in one of those flagged guilds I am either I'm auto-succored or prompted to succor if I want to participate. You could keep the state for if someone has succored or not server side or as a buff per character (buff poofs when you log). Use Nagafens banish check code to make sure you have the flag or succor buff when engaging.

You now have verified that anyone engaged on the mob has been succored, was not socking, was not in zone, and has succored after logging in for a raid target.

I love the idea of a mobilization footrace across multiple zones to race. If you want to get totally crazy as part of the rules don't allow Leatherfoot caps (through code or rules) after they succor. You get cool mobilization scenarios then like, "Shit I need to go get our cleric out of Permafrost", "I can grab 3 people by meeting at X spot", "I can only get one member before we have to go, do I get the rogue or monk?"

Quickfist || 60 Monk || <The A-Team> (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1745333)

[Ele]

Not classic.

[Joyelle]

I'm getting a headache just reading the crazy convoluted methods you all would use to implement this. I can't imagine what the coding would be like.

[Gooch]

Could always code every raid zone PvP...

[jake505]

I'm getting a headache just reading the crazy convoluted methods you all would use to implement this. I can't imagine what the coding would be like.

It's probably some new state in a character or guild data model and a few checks when a mob spawns, when someone logs in etc.

Take the time to implement this solution and add it up. Now compare this to the time that Sirken/CS has spent handling petitions, dealing with auto-fire detection, arguments about who was standing where and when, CotH scandals etc. I can take a guess at which side of this equation is heavier.

Quickfist || 60 Monk || <The A-Team> (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1745333)

[nilbog]

I think people are getting hung up on it not being classic.

Of course it's not classic.

I typed that in the twitch chat amidst a myriad of other non classic suggestions. It's hard.. to make a classic raid scene work. How it's currently working with R/C is better than many previous rulesets.

That being said, I will not solely decide ANY rules for raiding, because I am no longer responsible for enforcing them. The GMs, and Rogean, as lead CSR, should have more of a say in those matters because they deal with the consequences.

This was a random thought, that players either like, hate, or are commenting on because I said it. If it's the latter, consider it a random thought that none of the staff suggested other than me - just like the skill-based-pro-pickup raid nilbogcare system (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133537) I proposed before the current raid rules were implemented.

[Ziggy]

this has already gotten too complicated to be a simple solution

[Gooch]

just like the skill-based-pro-pickup raid nilbogcare system (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133537)

I wasn't here for this, but that's an interesting and pretty neat idea for a rules based solution. 50% is a little harsh, but limiting and then reducing raid numbers progressively is interesting.

[Tongpow]

i threw up in my mouth a little bit reading this horseshit..

do not want.

[Juryiel]

I mentioned that during a conversation involving various nonclassic ways to fix camping out, and/or poopsocking raid targets. It was just a random idea.

I was actually going to type more on it, then I got called away, and left everyone hanging with a random idea lol. Sorry about that.

I had said when a raid npc pops, move characters of all raid guilds (online and offline) to west commons. My original thought was kerra ridge, but that benefits hat ports.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to fix camping out of which I'm aware. Always willing to listen to suggestions, but this is one of the reasons future mmos made instances.

People have independently converged on these types of ideas across the server, so probably worth trying something along these lines to see how it works. My take: Give every raid level character an ability that can only be activated ONCE, within a 2 hour window after a pop, and randomly teleports you to some non-dangerous location. Once used, ability can not again be used until there is another raid mob pop. Along with teleporting, the ability marks the time of use. Time of use must be later than raid mob pop or else you get flagged if you engage mob. Alternatively, you can wait 2 hours prior to engaging.

This prevents a bunch of issues like misclicked boxes, people being logged out, etc.

Next, eliminate tracking by broadcasting raid spawns, since you know guilds will sit there at every spawn point infinitely (or if you can think of a way to eliminate tracking while keeping mob pops a surprise that would be ideal but I dn't see how).

[jpetrick]

These idea all suck.
Constant problem: too much demand, not enough supply.
Solution: reduce mob spawn timers to every 3.5 days for 7 day spawns and every 36 hours for 3 day spawns. +/- 15 mins variance. Keep same raid ruleset as established.
Less cleric epics but more raiding for everyone.

[sanforce]

C'mon guys, it's not fair for newbs to see all of this epic dragon loot running around and have 0 access to it. So I propose, we should also be able to:

/summon Trakanon
/deathtouch Trakanon
/profit

or whatever raid mob you want loot from. It's a fair system for all!

[maskedmelon]

I am not sure I like this idea. What if you are grouped with some from one of the affected guilds and they poof mid fight due to repop?

I think lockout tags are an excellent open world alternative to instancing. Not sure how difficult it would be to hard code, but would think it would not be too difficult via quest item / scripting.

It is not classic of course though.

[Fountree]

Didn't really read thread except title but imo a bad idea. What is classic about moving characters against their wishes? What if you don't raid? That would really annoy me if I was moved without wanting to be moved and I wasn't even in a raid guild.

[Daldaen]

People are not reading enough.

Nilbogs original suggestion was anyone in a raiding guild would be moved. Non-raiding guilded or unguilded people would stay put.

@Maskedmellon that already happens. Group with some IB and TMO, and if there is a repop I guarantee almost all of them will camp or gate out of that group the second the ground shakes. If you see them immediately LD, they /quit out and are likely exploiting how IP exemptions work to get on another account ASAP.

The hyper saturation of level 60 raid ready characters is a nonclassic problem and it warrants a nonclassic solution. This solution wouldn't Impact groupers/non-raiders any more than sim Repops do currently. It doesn't resort to messing with spawn timers or token systems or instances. It puts everyone on the most level playing field possible with our current system. Where having 10 level 60s camped at each different raid boss isn't an advantage since they all get punted to WC.

[Pint]

It would /search.

If you're in a guild from Class C or Class R, you get moved. If you are not, you are left alone.

raiding in asgard is 100% optional, we have people that choose to continue playing as they wish during every raid/mobilization call. i always assumed that most other guilds had similarly minded players within them. without this being an opt in/out option it seems like a bad idea.

[Danth]

raiding in asgard is 100% optional, we have people that choose to continue playing as they wish during every raid/mobilization call. i always assumed that most other guilds had similarly minded players within them. without this being an opt in/out option it seems like a bad idea.

I agree. My wife and I are in a "class R" guild and we completely ignore repops when they happen. We raid once in a blue moon but it certainly isn't our main focus on playing the game....if it was we'd be in a "class C" guild. The proposed change to move characters like-it-or-not would cause us to immediately disband from our guild which we're otherwise perfectly satisfied with.

Danth

[arsenalpow]

raiding in asgard is 100% optional, we have people that choose to continue playing as they wish during every raid/mobilization call. i always assumed that most other guilds had similarly minded players within them. without this being an opt in/out option it seems like a bad idea.

We have lots of optional stuff in BDA but repops are absolutely mandatory. If someone doesn't want to help with repop kills then they better log out and disappear. In my opinion, it's so grimy to put yourself in front of your guild which is what you're doing when you'd rather sit at a cash camp instead of helping your guild.

[jake505]

raiding in asgard is 100% optional, we have people that choose to continue playing as they wish during every raid/mobilization call. i always assumed that most other guilds had similarly minded players within them. without this being an opt in/out option it seems like a bad idea.

I agree. My wife and I are in a "class R" guild and we completely ignore repops when they happen. We raid once in a blue moon but it certainly isn't our main focus on playing the game....if it was we'd be in a "class C" guild. The proposed change to move characters like-it-or-not would cause us to immediately disband from our guild which we're otherwise perfectly satisfied with.


It could easily be opt-in/out at a per character level in a guild. If you are in an R or C guild you are given a rezz dialog box "Yes"/"No" to participate in Encounter/Rumble. If you click "No" nothing happens, if you click "Yes" you are randomly ported and marked with a BUFF that prevents you from being banished from the given encounter (Naggy style).

You present this dialog box to all online members in an R/C guild, and everyone who logs in within an hour of repop.

Quickfist || 60 Monk || <The A-Team> (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1745333)

[Juryiel]

raiding in asgard is 100% optional, we have people that choose to continue playing as they wish during every raid/mobilization call. i always assumed that most other guilds had similarly minded players within them. without this being an opt in/out option it seems like a bad idea.

I think these are the wrong things to spend time arguing. Implementation can be in such a way to where being teleported is optional, but opting not to be teleported means you are not allowed to engage the raid mob. The only question is whether people would support the teleporting idea for those who DO want to participate on said raid mob.

[Juevento]

We have lots of optional stuff in BDA but repops are absolutely mandatory. If someone doesn't want to help with repop kills then they better log out and disappear. In my opinion, it's so grimy to put yourself in front of your guild which is what you're doing when you'd rather sit at a cash camp instead of helping your guild.

You gotta remember Asgard has their TMO commitments to attend to first.

[Raev]

I think people are getting hung up on it not being classic.

Of course it's not classic.

I typed that in the twitch chat amidst a myriad of other non classic suggestions. It's hard.. to make a classic raid scene work. How it's currently working with R/C is better than many previous rulesets.


Nilbog, just remember you will never get a consensus here because everyone will bust out their calculators and figure out how many mobs they will add or subtract from their tally and vote accordingly. Most of the people that are complaining here are horrified at not being able to win by facerolling their keyboards just because they poopsock. So fuck it, do whatever you think it takes to make a more fun raid scene, whether its rumbles w/ports, the nilbog miniraid plan, or whatever else you can think up.

Personally I am fine with straight classic mechanics, i.e. no variance. If we aren't going to have classic mechanics, we should at least go for classic feel. The current raid scene and its poopsocking/camped out accounts feel about 0% classic to me. Logging on and mobilizing? That feels way, way more classic, not to mention fun. A guild based opt-in would work fine IMO. A-Team gets ported; Kittens do not. If you don't like your guild's stance on rumbles, join another guild.

Joyelle, I can assure you that all of this stuff is trivial to code up in comparison to mob pathing or network updates. This here is real freshman CS stuff: if X, then Y.

[Littlegyno 13.0]

http://i.imgur.com/00rrnUW.jpg

[Pint]

We have lots of optional stuff in BDA but repops are absolutely mandatory. If someone doesn't want to help with repop kills then they better log out and disappear. In my opinion, it's so grimy to put yourself in front of your guild which is what you're doing when you'd rather sit at a cash camp instead of helping your guild.

different strokes i guess, we try to keep it pretty casual at asgard. req for dragon loot is 100 lifetime dkp and 20% ra over 2 months. im sure you guys still think were feeding the zerg over here but in reality were just a small end guild of ppl who think its cool that we can kill dragons now.

[Daldaen]

I agree. My wife and I are in a "class R" guild and we completely ignore repops when they happen. We raid once in a blue moon but it certainly isn't our main focus on playing the game....if it was we'd be in a "class C" guild. The proposed change to move characters like-it-or-not would cause us to immediately disband from our guild which we're otherwise perfectly satisfied with.

Danth

Immediately disband because you may be inconvenienced maybe 2-4 times a month assuming you are online when they occur? Seems a bit extreme but okay.

The problem with making it optional is what's to stop people from hitting no and participating anyways? Also what about all the camped out people specifically Alts.

Really it is easier to just blanket send everyone to WC in a Class C and Class R guild.

If your guild wants to opt out of sim repops entirely, that could probably be arranged. No ports anywhere for your guild but you cannot kill sim Repop targets.

It's a lot easier for GMs to see what guild killed a mob and whether they opted out, than it is to see which characters participated in killing a mob and whether they opted out. Plus it would be very easy for guilds to self regulate.

[Pint]

you guys are also saying that everyone online gets an opt in box, which sounds cool to me and fixes one of my only reservations. i assume that after you batphone the server will be able to present the same opt in box to all of your members who are logging in after the initial rumble?

[Tenlaar]

It would be even easier for GMs to not even touch this terrible clusterfuck of an idea.

[Vianna]

I mean the Class C guilds would just bind everyone at VP. All mellee would have gate pots until they used them all up. All Casters would gate to VP. You really wouldn't slow what Class C does down a bit except for making them zone one extra time. Their alts would still be bound at KC and for any mellee that needs a port that aren't bound at KC well they log right in with Wizards and Druids standing right next to them to port them.

You put all of Class C resources in one spot and you will still get out mobolized probably worse than them pre-camping their alts at places. It would be funny knowing repops moved all of the trackers out of raid target zones though.

[Pint]

also how do you deal with the stress issues that zoning hundreds of people to the same place at the same time would cause? wouldnt 300 people entering wc at once desync the zone?

[Daldaen]

I figured an opt in-opt out box would be far more tedious to code relative to the number of people in Class C and Class R guilds who wouldn't want to participate in simulated repops.

And how does it prevent you from participating once you opt out? Couldn't all these nerds just log on their Alts camped in VP opt out and still participate anyways?

[Pint]

I mean the Class C guilds would just bind everyone at VP. All mellee would have gate pots until they used them all up. All Casters would gate to VP. You really wouldn't slow what Class C does down a bit except for making them zone one extra time. Their alts would still be bound at KC and for any mellee that needs a port that aren't bound at KC well they log right in with Wizards and Druids standing right next to them to port them.

You put all of Class C resources in one spot and you will still get out mobolized probably worse than them pre-camping their alts at places. It would be funny knowing repops moved all of the trackers out of raid target zones though.

none of us are really concerned with what class C will do in these events bc if we wanted to be in vp we would be in class C. its more about eliminating the FFA issues atm and making world targets a little more exciting.

[maskedmelon]

How about giving all raid mobs a new ability: Neckbeardbane, basically instant death touch to any who join aggro list. Then, when said mob spawns, a merchant spawns in WC selling Safety Razors with zone restricted worn effect: No Sock Here, granting immunity to Neckbeardbane in the zone in which the raid mob has just spawned. All zone related Safety Razors would poof upon mobs death and or be no rent. Thoughts?

[Vianna]

none of us are really concerned with what class C will do in these events bc if we wanted to be in vp we would be in class C. its more about eliminating the FFA issues atm and making world targets a little more exciting.

Which as I just explained this wouldn't slow Class C down a bit. Which means they would still largely get what they wanted outside of VP on repops as well. They just have more resources. So if you want to make them more exciting for everyone you have to find a system that eliminates their resources.

[jake505]

I figured an opt in-opt out box would be far more tedious to code relative to the number of people in Class C and Class R guilds who wouldn't want to participate in simulated repops.

And how does it prevent you from participating once you opt out? Couldn't all these nerds just log on their Alts camped in VP opt out and still participate anyways?

You force the same dialog when they log in an alt. You click yes you get a buff that allows you to participate and port. Everyone is hung up on the implementation details which aren't difficult.

If you don't want folks to gate or potion or cap after they click yes to participate again it's just an implementation detail.

[Pint]

Immediately disband because you may be inconvenienced maybe 2-4 times a month assuming you are online when they occur? Seems a bit extreme but okay.

this isnt really an extreme stance at all. the R class is supposed to be about a different play style and now youre warping that play style to fit how you want the raid scene to be, there is no reason danth shouldnt be able to play the game the way he wants and be in the guild he wants to be in. i feel like the guilds with higher expectations on attendance are completely disregarding the guilds who dont feel like attendance should be a req for membership.

[Pint]

Which as I just explained this wouldn't slow Class C down a bit. Which means they would still largely get what they wanted outside of VP on repops as well. They just have more resources. So if you want to make them more exciting for everyone you have to find a system that eliminates their resources.

i think youre overstating class C's ability to take vp and ffa targets simultaneously, i dont think theyve had the ability to do this in a long time.

[maskedmelon]

You force the same dialog when they log in an alt. You click yes you get a buff that allows you to participate and port. The implementation isn't difficult.

This could be circumvented by keeping Alts unguided and then inviting after target has popped, or just not inviting at all. Would require considerable effort to police unless applied to all who are in and/or enter the zone at which point you are affecting people who are not necessarily interested in participating.

[Daldaen]

Which as I just explained this wouldn't slow Class C down a bit. Which means they would still largely get what they wanted outside of VP on repops as well. They just have more resources. So if you want to make them more exciting for everyone you have to find a system that eliminates their resources.

If they want to spend 100,000s of plat rebinding melee and burning gate potions every sim repop, go for it.

You think they will finish in VP, swap to Alts, and gate to KC to do VS before other guilds port from WC and Selos run to KC?

Even then if they did, that's a single mob. Not a big deal.

But a port system that doesn't give the meganeckbeards with different rooms camped at each raid mob a minimal leg up versus just some level 60 rogue main with no Alts. Which is one of the goals.

Another would be doing this to remove variance entirely so poopsocking and staring at a wall for 16 hours straight isn't something we reward here. Just fast mobilizing and killing mobs.

[Vianna]

If they want to spend 100,000s of plat rebinding melee and burning gate potions every sim repop, go for it.

You think they will finish in VP, swap to Alts, and gate to KC to do VS before other guilds port from WC and Selos run to KC?

Even then if they did, that's a single mob. Not a big deal.

But a port system that doesn't give the meganeckbeards with different rooms camped at each raid mob a minimal leg up versus just some level 60 rogue main with no Alts. Which is one of the goals.

Another would be doing this to remove variance entirely so poopsocking and staring at a wall for 16 hours straight isn't something we reward here. Just fast mobilizing and killing mobs.

They wouldn't have to rebind. They are already bound at VP on their Mellee. Their alts are already bound at KC. So yes I think gating beats Selos. It's just slightly faster. Slightly.

[jake505]

This could be circumvented by keeping Alts unguided and then inviting after target has popped, or just not inviting at all. Would require considerable effort to police unless applied to all who are in and/or enter the zone at which point you are affecting people who are not necessarily interested in participating.

Again just another implementation detail if you haven't accepted the port or succor you are banished from the encounter naggy style. You flag per character with a buff or server side flag.

[Ella'Ella]

Please ban Daldean

[Ravager]

My idea is simpler and more fun. Would be cool if, for example, Faydedar had the same chance of spawning in Dagnor's, LOIO, Lake Rathe, OOT, Erud's Crossing as TD. Sure a guild could still sock somewhere, but five out of six times they'll be socking the wrong zone.

[Nirgon]

If you want to see raid mobs join Holo on red

[Ravager]

If you want to see raid mobs join Holo on red

I'm level one. Can I join?

[sanforce]

I don't necessarily think replacing all spawn timers + variance with lots of rumble repops is a bad idea, but moving pre-camped characters is a dumb idea.

[Pringles]

Daldaen, you are the king of "Not Classic", this is Not Classic. Why the double standard? :)

[maskedmelon]

Again just another implementation detail if you haven't accepted the port or succor you are banished from the encounter naggy style. You flag per character with a buff or server side flag.

Ok, if they are able to implement encounter specific flags like that, which reset each kill or day via a Rez type dialogue box, I think you could reasonably control the impact to those who do not wish to participate.

However, I would still like to see it implemented via the quest system for immersion and to avoid muddying the server code as much as possible. Non-classic quests and abilities are easier to remove than. On. Lassos mechanics.

[maskedmelon]

My idea is simpler and more fun. Would be cool if, for example, Faydedar had the same chance of spawning in Dagnor's, LOIO, Lake Rathe, OOT, Erud's Crossing as TD. Sure a guild could still sock somewhere, but five out of six times they'll be socking the wrong zone.

I agree, this is an infinitely simpler solution than the port to WC box. More immersive too.

[fastboy21]

People are not reading enough.

Nilbogs original suggestion was anyone in a raiding guild would be moved. Non-raiding guilded or unguilded people would stay put.


You seem to think people's objections to this come from not understanding you or not reading the idea carefully. People can read just fine. Some folks just don't like the idea.

[Daldaen]

Daldaen, you are the king of "Not Classic", this is Not Classic. Why the double standard? :)

Read my earlier post.

This is a non-classic issue. 16-hour variance (non-classic), poopsocking (not-classic), huge population of high level raiders due to four year Kunark (not classic).

We can go the classic route. Remove variance entirely.

I believe that would be fun and would encourage more guilds to participate since participating becomes a 20min time commitment rather than a round the clock be ready for a Batphone and have trackers staring at their screens for 16 hours straight, in some cases have entire groups staring at their screens for 16 hours straight.

So sign me up if remove variance (classic) or atleast reduce it down to a negligible number like 15min, to prevent any nerds from CoTH ducking or whathaveyou.

That being said. They don't seem to want to remove variance for whatever reason. So to solve this confluence of non-classicness you need a non-classic solution. Ideally one that while it is mechanically not classic, it attempts to restore a classic feeling of raiding.

I'd say having to mobilize and port around to get targets on repops is pretty classic. Much more classic than logging in Your character camped at VP or your other character camped at SEB entrance or your other character camped at KC.

Hell... Even if you made earthquakes just port all logged out, 50+ characters in Class R/C that would work pretty well. Wouldn't have to interfere with anyone currently online when the repop happens and you would achieve mostly the same thing.

[Daldaen]

You seem to think people's objections to this come from not understanding you or not reading the idea carefully. People can read just fine. Some folks just don't like the idea.

If I weren't using a phone to post I would quote the multiple people saying poor little noobs in guilds would get screwed when it was posted multiple times before it would only affect Class C/R guilded players. Later clarified to higher level ones.

[Raev]

You seem to think people's objections to this come from not understanding you or not reading the idea carefully. People can read just fine. Some folks just don't like the idea.

Those people are the ones that are only considering whether it benefits them personally, and not the overall health of the server.

[Plunket]

Another option = Tag-on-the-Fly

i.e. All toons that wish to engage a raid mob must first enter WC (or other designated zone) and receive a character flag .. if you don't, you get banished.

Flag lasts for one zone/ X amount of time .. if you want to change raid zones = new flag

If you camp out for more than X time = you need a new flag

Don't know how hard it would be to code .. but would eliminate almost all of the hardcore neckbearding poopsockers

[Decad]

I mentioned that during a conversation involving various nonclassic ways to fix camping out, and/or poopsocking raid targets. It was just a random idea.

I was actually going to type more on it, then I got called away, and left everyone hanging with a random idea lol. Sorry about that.

I had said when a raid npc pops, move characters of all raid guilds (online and offline) to west commons. My original thought was kerra ridge, but that benefits hat ports.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to fix camping out of which I'm aware. Always willing to listen to suggestions, but this is one of the reasons future mmos made instances.

Dear Nilborg, If this idea will ever to go live, please remove WC caps from the game and move all to Kerra Ridge/Lake Rathetear. Those who wants a race, will now have a race given to them.

And if we are to take it even 1 further step, lets remove Overthere hammers and move porters to a different zone compared to other classes. It will be a race for porters to reach their raid force.

[Moodie]

NOT F*CKING CLASSIC DALD!

[Veleria]

What exactly is this supposed to fix? There is an issue at the top of raiding but would it solve the problem or would it just create a new race? As things stand If you are not a member of a short list of guilds you cannot compete. making this change is unlikely to give those guilds a chance. I am a member of the "99%" and from my perspective, I don't see this improving our chances. It seems like creating a hoop to jump through and the guilds will do it and the end result will be the same.

[Rangerest]

Who woulda guessed the guilds with players Who have 7 characters camped at every raid dont like It.

This solution isnt Any less classic than having 9 level 60 alts camped at every raid Boss.

[w1zard]

Holy hell. There are hundreds of threads with dozens of pages discussing this same issue going back to nearly the start of the server. JUST IMPLEMENT SOME KIND OF TOKEN SPAWN SYSTEM AND BE DONE WITH IT.

It's BLUE. It's 16 YEARS since 1999. Why do people even care that others would get to relive the raid experience? Why do people want to exclude them? If you cared that much, why don't you just go to RED? Let Red be the hardcore server with fighting for spawns and let Blue be about experiencing content cooperatively. If you don't like that solution then make another server called "Green" where there is "cooperative" raiding (with token spawning) and let people choose their own experience.

The fact y'all put this much effort and time into trying to come up with a solution to this super simple problem is mind boggling.

[w1zard]

And before others start crying about a third server "thinning" the population. Why do you freaking care? You'll still compete against those who want to compete and those are the only people who really matter anyways if we can be honest here. If having somebody who doesn't have the time to track and poopsock inspect you in EC to see your epic and VP gear is so important to you then you've got some serious mental issues.

[Decad]

Holy hell. There are hundreds of threads with dozens of pages discussing this same issue going back to nearly the start of the server. JUST IMPLEMENT SOME KIND OF TOKEN SPAWN SYSTEM AND BE DONE WITH IT.

It's BLUE. It's 16 YEARS since 1999. Why do people even care that others would get to relive the raid experience? Why do people want to exclude them? If you cared that much, why don't you just go to RED? Let Red be the hardcore server with fighting for spawns and let Blue be about experiencing content cooperatively. If you don't like that solution then make another server called "Green" where there is "cooperative" raiding (with token spawning) and let people choose their own experience.

The fact y'all put this much effort and time into trying to come up with a solution to this super simple problem is mind boggling.

They are just concerned that someone has an epenis bigger/similar to theirs in size and at the same time worried those with a smaller epenis will grow to the size of the former.

[SCB]

JUST IMPLEMENT SOME KIND OF TOKEN SPAWN SYSTEM AND BE DONE WITH IT.

It's BLUE. It's 16 YEARS since 1999.

I vote this.

Then again I barely get to play and I only play for nostalgia purposes, so I don't do a lot of crying about raid lewts.

Also this game is easy, so raid lewts are only important for EC tunneling.

[August]

Holy hell. There are hundreds of threads with dozens of pages discussing this same issue going back to nearly the start of the server. JUST IMPLEMENT SOME KIND OF TOKEN SPAWN SYSTEM AND BE DONE WITH IT.

It's BLUE. It's 16 YEARS since 1999. Why do people even care that others would get to relive the raid experience? Why do people want to exclude them? If you cared that much, why don't you just go to RED? Let Red be the hardcore server with fighting for spawns and let Blue be about experiencing content cooperatively. If you don't like that solution then make another server called "Green" where there is "cooperative" raiding (with token spawning) and let people choose their own experience.

The fact y'all put this much effort and time into trying to come up with a solution to this super simple problem is mind boggling.

I'd support this so much.

Officers of guilds allowed to purchase spawn tokens to the tune of.. a large amount of pp. Each guild allowed to kill just 1 of each mob per week / 2 weeks / month whatever.

You get your no drop pixels - we deflate the economy, and everyone who wants to do the content can actually do it and 'gear' their characters. Gear for what? more raiding? yay! Never liked the cyclical nature of end game, which is what MMOs have become solely. It's all about that level grind.

[w1zard]

Alternatively, could provide mixed pathways to achieve raid targets.

1) Buy tokens that cost a lot of platinum. Perhaps these can only be purchased at twice the respawn rate of the target. This would have the benefit of deflating the economy and give people a reason to farm plat other than to buy raid gear from the guilds that would otherwise get the target if the system didn't exist. It wouldn't be unfair to hardcore raiders because at most the casuals will get 1/2 the total targets and at a great cost to them (they'll have to do some kind of "work" to get it by farming platinum).

2) Encourage low numbers in raids by increasing drop rates inversely proportional to the size of the raid. For instance, if you kill Inny with 10 people then you get twice the amount of loot. Set a baseline number of people for each raid target and a equation to represent the drop rate based on the deviation from that baseline. If you kill VS with 50 people then you only get 1 item, for instance. This encourages many small guilds of elite players and rewards them greatly for their skill. The raid encounters would presumably take more time too so it would be harder for any one guild to get to every encounter on a simulated server reset. More competition, more reward for skill, greater access to encounters for more people.

3) Simulate repop and move all raiders participating to random zones, including any alts.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Change "WC" to "Kerra Isle" and I am all for this proposal, on the condition that ports and gates are disabled in that zone.

That's right, everyone is going to have to fight their way out through Erudin.

[Ravager]

If having somebody who doesn't have the time to track and poopsock inspect you in EC to see your epic and VP gear is so important to you then you've got some serious mental issues.

This is how the majority of "hardcore" raiders get any kind of validation in life.

The minority of the "hardcores" need to maintain the scarcity of end game content to pay for their Hot Pockets.

[mokfarg]

Holy hell. There are hundreds of threads with dozens of pages discussing this same issue going back to nearly the start of the server. JUST IMPLEMENT SOME KIND OF TOKEN SPAWN SYSTEM AND BE DONE WITH IT.

It's BLUE. It's 16 YEARS since 1999. Why do people even care that others would get to relive the raid experience? Why do people want to exclude them? If you cared that much, why don't you just go to RED? Let Red be the hardcore server with fighting for spawns and let Blue be about experiencing content cooperatively. If you don't like that solution then make another server called "Green" where there is "cooperative" raiding (with token spawning) and let people choose their own experience.

The fact y'all put this much effort and time into trying to come up with a solution to this super simple problem is mind boggling.

How would you fit this in the game world to make it realistic? Just buying tokens to make magical creatures appear doesn't make game world sense? Whey would Plat spawn a creature in Noratth?


I prefer epic quest to where Plat might be a part of it but not tokens, maybe a magical summoning stone would be the final reward to summon a creature.

[fastboy21]

Daldaen,

Why the change of heart about "not classic"???

http://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3772482&pp=25&page=4

[w1zard]

How would you fit this in the game world to make it realistic? Just buying tokens to make magical creatures appear doesn't make game world sense? Whey would Plat spawn a creature in Noratth?


I prefer epic quest to where Plat might be a part of it but not tokens, maybe a magical summoning stone would be the final reward to summon a creature.

Right because "realistic" to kill the same dragon each week. You'd think he'd die the first time he is killed and never come back. Tots realistic bro.

Have you seen the graphics of this game? Check out the shape of female chests then come back and tell me the game world makes sense.

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

[Daldaen]

Daldaen,

Why the change of heart about "not classic"???

http://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3772482&pp=25&page=4

See - http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1760546&postcount=85

[mokfarg]

Right because "realistic" to kill the same dragon each week. You'd think he'd die the first time he is killed and never come back. Tots realistic bro.

Have you seen the graphics of this game? Check out the shape of female chests then come back and tell me the game world makes sense.

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

Let's just add teleporters too right or maybe just type in the zone you would like to be in. While we are at it, walking to the bank is unnecessary when you could just make a interface to access it from anywhere. Maybe you could just type in the name of a mob you would like to kill and it will appear and then you kill it. Since the game isn't realistic anyway right. Doesn't need to make sense, after all we are all here just to loot pixels not to live in the world of norrath.

[Mirana]

Holy hell. There are hundreds of threads with dozens of pages discussing this same issue going back to nearly the start of the server. JUST IMPLEMENT SOME KIND OF TOKEN SPAWN SYSTEM AND BE DONE WITH IT.

It's BLUE. It's 16 YEARS since 1999. Why do people even care that others would get to relive the raid experience? Why do people want to exclude them? If you cared that much, why don't you just go to RED? Let Red be the hardcore server with fighting for spawns and let Blue be about experiencing content cooperatively. If you don't like that solution then make another server called "Green" where there is "cooperative" raiding (with token spawning) and let people choose their own experience.

The fact y'all put this much effort and time into trying to come up with a solution to this super simple problem is mind boggling.

I think the vast majority of people agree with this. However, I believe the server devs have more of a purist mentality, although I could be wrong.

I'd love nothing more than to be in a guild where we could schedule Talendor for 7 pm on Thursday night so I could relive some memories (which, imo, is what this server SHOULD be about), but it isn't my box so I don't get to make those calls.

[Ravager]

Let's just add teleporters too right or maybe just type in the zone you would like to be in. While we are at it, walking to the bank is unnecessary when you could just make a interface to access it from anywhere. Maybe you could just type in the name of a mob you would like to kill and it will appear and then you kill it. Since the game isn't realistic anyway right. Doesn't need to make sense, after all we are all here just to loot pixels not to live in the world of norrath.

This argument is tired. Put it to rest.

Implementing quests to spawn gods and dragons would have no impact on the RPGness of the game and would probably make the world more immersive than sitting around for 16 hours with 200 other people waiting for something to spawn. Afterall, the game is called EverQuest, not EverPoopsock.

Who gives a shit if it's not classic? This server is not classic. It's only goal is to achieve that classic feeling. When Nilbog is considering non-classic changes (and has already made non-classic changes with variance) to achieve that goal, the not-classic argument goes out the window.

Edit: It'd be fun also, if one day dragons and gods stopped spawning and everyone was scrambling trying to solve the quests to make them spawn again. What's more classic than not knowing how to finish a quest?

[Swish]

Hrmm true. Maybe split guilds up between three zones with both druid and wizard portals?

Toxxulia, North Karana, Dreadlands, and West Commons each have double ports.

DL would be a bit more advantageous for Kunark targets. WC would be pretty solid. Tox and NK the rings and spires are quite separated.

Maybe it would just randomly does you at any typical druid or wizard ring. That would be entertaining.

It's time you made a server Daldaen, build it and they will come... for your quirky ideas :)

[SCB]

Let's just add teleporters too right or maybe just type in the zone you would like to be in. While we are at it, walking to the bank is unnecessary when you could just make a interface to access it from anywhere. Maybe you could just type in the name of a mob you would like to kill and it will appear and then you kill it. Since the game isn't realistic anyway right. Doesn't need to make sense, after all we are all here just to loot pixels not to live in the world of norrath.

"Not Classic" is an appropriate response to this idea (and the reason the idea won't be implemented even though it would fix every major problem the server has).

Your response is neither constructive nor a drive toward "classic". Anyone can draw an absurd, hyperbolic end-result, claim "slippery slope" and spew nonsense. Be better than that.

[mokfarg]

This argument is tired. Put it to rest.

Implementing quests to spawn gods and dragons would have no impact on the RPGness of the game and would probably make the world more immersive than sitting around for 16 hours with 200 other people waiting for something to spawn. Afterall, the game is called EverQuest, not EverPoopsock.

Who gives a shit if it's not classic? This server is not classic. It's only goal is to achieve that classic feeling. When Nilbog is considering non-classic changes (and has already made non-classic changes with variance) to achieve that goal, the not-classic argument goes out the window.

Edit: It'd be fun also, if one day dragons and gods stopped spawning and everyone was scrambling trying to solve the quests to make them spawn again. What's more classic than not knowing how to finish a quest?

You would have to follow the flow of comments from before to see I am in favor of an epic quest to summon raid bosses. So I agree with you. I just think it should be completed thoughtfully with EQ lore in mind and fit into the world of EQ.

[Ravager]

You would have to follow the flow of comments from before to see I am in favor of an epic quest to summon raid bosses. So I agree with you. I just think it should be completed thoughtfully with EQ lore in mind and fit into the world of EQ.

My apologies then, it's easy to lose track of who said what and where on these forums.

[w1zard]

Let's just add teleporters too right or maybe just type in the zone you would like to be in. While we are at it, walking to the bank is unnecessary when you could just make a interface to access it from anywhere. Maybe you could just type in the name of a mob you would like to kill and it will appear and then you kill it. Since the game isn't realistic anyway right. Doesn't need to make sense, after all we are all here just to loot pixels not to live in the world of norrath.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

I'm not suggesting that we reduce the game to /kill <mob> or any of the other things that you suggest.

What I am suggesting is a non-classic solution to a non-classic problem because the current non-classic solution sucks and that's why nobody can stop complaining about it. The only solution that will make the majority of people shut up about it is to make it so more casual players (still probably "hardcore" by actual 1999-era playerbase standards) can have realistic chances to kill raid targets. Spawn tokens would fix this issue. My guess is if they were implemented then the hardcores would start bitching and moaning more - but they already bitch and moan all the time anyways. Any lingering problems of RMT on the server would quickly dissolve because rare raid equipment won't have an artificial scarcity imposed by elite guilds. In addition to not having to babysit and police guilds, this would free a lot of time for devs to focus on content rather than catching the bad guys or offenders. Further, the vast majority of players would be happy and the community would prosper. More people would come to the game because they won't be deterred from the fact that they'll likely never have a chance at the endgame content.

The only people who stand to lose in this scenario are the extreme hardcores who may see their epeen shrink a little. They may threaten to quit or stage a mass exodus but let's be honest here - they'll continue to play because P1999 is the most stable and thriving version of classic EverQuest and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Detoxx]

Can we just try to make this game not any less classic than it already is? Its slowly getting destroyed by shit like this.

[w1zard]

Can we just try to make this game not any less classic than it already is? Its slowly getting destroyed by shit like this.

Example of somebody who stands to lose from changes to the status quo. You don't care about classic. You care about pixels. Any change that threatens that therefore threatens your self esteem and you can't let that happen.

[Daldaen]

Can we just try to make this game not any less classic than it already is? Its slowly getting destroyed by shit like this.

Okay.

0 Variance please
No multiple Chatboxes
No multiple Hotkey windows
No scroll wheel to 3rd person
No moving items in banked bags
No duck casting spells
No sneak pulling exploits
Etc.

Get the Devs to do 0 Variance. That would be fantastical.

[Detoxx]

Example of somebody who stands to lose from changes to the status quo. You don't care about classic. You care about pixels. Any change that threatens that therefore threatens your self esteem and you can't let that happen.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, as I already have everything I could want 4 years into kunark, but keep trying. I believe its the threat of you NOT getting pixels that is driving your support for this stupid and non-classic mechanic to be piled onto a list of already stupid, non-classic mechanics such as, I dont know, the entire Class C/R/FFA system that was implemented.

Dont get me wrong, the system has worked well thus far, and the server is certainly a better place for everyone to play but...when is enough enough? If you want free shit, or you want to trigger your raid mobs, EZ server is pretty successful and conveniently located on the same server list as P99.

[Ravager]

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, as I already have everything I could want 4 years into kunark, but keep trying. I believe its the threat of you NOT getting pixels that is driving your support for this stupid and non-classic mechanic to be piled onto a list of already stupid, non-classic mechanics such as, I dont know, the entire Class C/R/FFA system that was implemented.

Dont get me wrong, the system has worked well thus far, and the server is certainly a better place for everyone to play but...when is enough enough? If you want free shit, or you want to trigger your raid mobs, EZ server is pretty successful and conveniently located on the same server list as P99.

Implementing quests to trigger raid mobs is not the same thing as EZ server, nor is it a hand-out any more than spawning Ixiblat Fer for a shot at a Cloak of Flames is. If anything it's less of a hand-out because people actually have to earn their shit in more of a capacity than simply being on-call 24/7 to show up for FTE.

[Detoxx]

Implementing quests to trigger raid mobs is not the same thing as EZ server, nor is it a hand-out any more than spawning Ixiblat Fer for a shot at a Cloak of Flames is. If anything it's less of a hand-out because people actually have to earn their shit in more of a capacity than simply being on-call 24/7 to show up for FTE.

Sure, and I was just making a point with EZ server, not saying it does have hand-ins. Saying its the same as spawning Ixi is insane tho because, lets be honest, Cloak of Flames is not the same thing as VP loot / Rare epics like Mage, Wiz, Nec, SK etc. I know, sure you can farm enough CoFs to hopefully score an MQ of one of them, but thats very unlikely and not an option for any of VPs best loot.

[w1zard]

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, as I already have everything I could want 4 years into kunark, but keep trying. I believe its the threat of you NOT getting pixels that is driving your support for this stupid and non-classic mechanic to be piled onto a list of already stupid, non-classic mechanics such as, I dont know, the entire Class C/R/FFA system that was implemented.

Dont get me wrong, the system has worked well thus far, and the server is certainly a better place for everyone to play but...when is enough enough? If you want free shit, or you want to trigger your raid mobs, EZ server is pretty successful and conveniently located on the same server list as P99.

If EZ was the exact same as P1999 except it allowed triggering raid mobs then I would play there. I think most current P1999 players would too.

Don't want free shit. Want to enjoy and relive classic raid encounters without having to spend gazillion hours tracking and batphoning because I'm an adult now and don't have time for that shit like I did as a teenager.

[Daldaen]

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, as I already have everything I could want 4 years into kunark, but keep trying. I believe its the threat of you NOT getting pixels that is driving your support for this stupid and non-classic mechanic to be piled onto a list of already stupid, non-classic mechanics such as, I dont know, the entire Class C/R/FFA system that was implemented.

Dont get me wrong, the system has worked well thus far, and the server is certainly a better place for everyone to play but...when is enough enough? If you want free shit, or you want to trigger your raid mobs, EZ server is pretty successful and conveniently located on the same server list as P99.

***Except one of the most valuable epics allowing you to manna robe withhout losing mana and rune using no reagents or mana***

Fine print is important. That being said though... Variance is the devil. Anything is better than variance. Rewarding players for doing NOTHING BUT STARING AT A WALL FOR 16 HOURS... Is quite possibly the most dumb thing to be produced by this server. Extended 96 hour variance before hand is the only dumber thing I could think of.

Anything that gets away from Variance is good. Rewarding neckbeard's for staring at a pixel wall all of their waking hours of a day is bad. I got roped into sitting in KC for like an hour for VS the other day and even though I was AFK for most of that, I wanted to stab someone in the eye over how dumb it was that 40+ people were just sitting there and would continue to for the next 15 hours.

No variance let people who want to compete do so with fast reactions, and solid strategies. Not whoever is more likely to be awake and stare at a wall for longer

[Ravager]

Sure, and I was just making a point with EZ server, not saying it does have hand-ins. Saying its the same as spawning Ixi is insane tho because, lets be honest, Cloak of Flames is not the same thing as VP loot / Rare epics like Mage, Wiz, Nec, SK etc. I know, sure you can farm enough CoFs to hopefully score an MQ of one of them, but thats very unlikely and not an option for any of VPs best loot.

VP is another thing that could use some non-classic massaging. A guild can be in and out downing a dragon in under 15 minutes and it's supposed to be the hardest zone in the game right now. Where's the fun in that? I understand, you're racing another guild and the fastest one gets the loot, but really? You take every conceivable short-cut to get that loot and there's somehow prestige in that?

Something should be done with that zone that makes it impossible to trivialize the encounters. Make the dragons summon the other mobs in the zone like CT, or if going with the spawn dragons with quest idea, make the quest pieces drop from the wurms in VP.

[Detoxx]

VP is another thing that could use some non-classic massaging. A guild can be in and out downing a dragon in under 15 minutes and it's supposed to be the hardest zone in the game right now. Where's the fun in that? I understand, you're racing another guild and the fastest one gets the loot, but really? You take every conceivable short-cut to get that loot and there's somehow prestige in that?

Something should be done with that zone that makes it impossible to trivialize the encounters. Make the dragons summon the other mobs in the zone like CT, or if going with the spawn dragons with quest idea, make the quest pieces drop from the wurms in VP.

Something was in place to make it harder and it was removed due to a lot of tears lol

[Ravager]

Something was in place to make it harder and it was removed due to a lot of tears lol

2 things. Memblur caused even more tears than training.

[Llodd]

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard, as I already have everything I could want 4 years into kunark, but keep trying. I believe its the threat of you NOT getting pixels that is driving your support for this stupid and non-classic mechanic to be piled onto a list of already stupid, non-classic mechanics such as, I dont know, the entire Class C/R/FFA system that was implemented.

I can see how this scares you so much. You get less pixels but even worse other guilds will get them and it won't even bE free handouts but rather through outracing and outskilling you.

Oh the horror

[Detoxx]

2 things. Memblur caused even more tears than training.

Truth

[Detoxx]

I can see how this scares you so much. You get less pixels but even worse other guilds will get them and it won't even bE free handouts but rather through outracing and outskilling you.

Oh the horror

Im all for more pixels for everyone, let the hatred settle a bit. Im just sick of seeing the server ruined by all the non-classic "fixes".

That is all.

[Llodd]

Im all for more pixels for everyone, let the hatred settle a bit. Im just sick of seeing the server ruined by all the non-classic "fixes".

That is all.

Oh good so you want to see earthquakes euro time zone yes?

[Detoxx]

Oh good so you want to see earthquakes euro time zone yes?

I dont, only cause thats like 6am for me and...that sucks!

[Daldaen]

Oh good so you want to see earthquakes euro time zone yes?

Not every server reset was euro time. Pretty sure most were asian time.

[w1zard]

Im all for more pixels for everyone, let the hatred settle a bit. Im just sick of seeing the server ruined by all the non-classic "fixes".

That is all.

Well if we want to be truly classic then there should exist a number of servers so people can choose a server with comparatively less raid competition if they so desire. One server for hardcore raiding. One server for casual raiding ... perhaps with rotation? Some servers in classic practiced rotation so it's still classic.

Also get rid of variance.

[loramin]

Well if we want to be truly classic then there should exist a number of servers so people can choose a server with comparatively less raid competition if they so desire. One server for hardcore raiding. One server for casual raiding ... perhaps with rotation? Some servers in classic practiced rotation so it's still classic.

Also get rid of variance.

Given that the raiders make up like 10%, or maybe 20% of the server's population at most even if you threw every last one of them (regardless of their raiding preferences) together on a separate server it still would have less population than Red.

Just like it was on the live servers, the raiders here are a minority; they only seem like the majority if you read the forums.

[SCB]

Given that the raiders make up like 10%, or maybe 20% of the server's population at most even if you threw every last one of them (regardless of their raiding preferences) together on a separate server it still would have less population than Red.

Just like it was on the live servers, the raiders here are a minority; they only seem like the majority if you read the forums.

I still don't see the downside.

[Feanol]

Nilbog was joking. He was making a funny.

Now the joke is this thread of people supporting a farce.

<--- (still laughing)

[Cfred0-]

Would be a great idea on Red

[w1zard]

Given that the raiders make up like 10%, or maybe 20% of the server's population at most even if you threw every last one of them (regardless of their raiding preferences) together on a separate server it still would have less population than Red.

Just like it was on the live servers, the raiders here are a minority; they only seem like the majority if you read the forums.

Okay? And? Low pop server for hardcore raiders to compete. Another server with rotations. Classic.