Reimagining EQ and what Sony should have done

[Blitzers]

Its time to travel back to a better time, that's why most of us are here in the first place, but let's look at what Sony did wrong and what should have happened (IMO).

Sony purchases Verant then releases a bunch of crap with minor level cap increases and most of the content is either high end raid or high end group only material, ( yes I know there are some exceptions but overall that's what u got). So expansion after expansion u get level cap increase more high end contend. This caused a major disadvantage for people who didn't have the time to LFG for an hour finally find a group only to see the cleric only had 15 mins left to play voila party's over. Joining a raiiding guild would be great but when u have to work at 5am it's kinda tough. So that leaves us with a bunch of blue cons that smoke any class that doesn't have a pet to help solo, but u don't like soloing anyways it takes away from the immersion of the game. You Quit, along with hundreds of other people in the same boat.

The Fix.

Upon purchasing Verant, Sony needed to go straight into development of EQ2 they did but failed. EQ2 should have been a graduated EQ1. Here's how it should have been done. Upon reaching level 61 you now gain access to EQ2 zones that connect to the world of Norrath, intertwine the games. Your level 61 toon has all there gear and fortune in eq2 and the best part is there's another 60 levels to play making the cap 120. Level 61 in EQ2 is the nooby level so yes you can kill that blue con as u did when you entered EC and killed your 1st black wolf. Mirror the leveling structure of EQ1. At level 100 you can solo a level 97-99. SOE could have upgraded graphics when in the EQ2 zones it could have just been a boat trip away to get there. So how do u keep old content relivent? You have to intertwine quest and old world Factioning.

You may ask how does someone new join EQ2 if they haven't leveled up in EQ1. Well they can roll a level 61 from EQ2 start with no gear and no money and no benefits granted by the devs for being a veteran, kinda like the heroics in live but not so heroic. This level 61 noob whenever they join an EQ2 zone they are that level 61 but if the go into EQ1 they start at level 1.
Last thing no level higher then 60 and no gear from EQ2 can enter an EQ1 zone so when u do enter EQ1 you are shadowed down to 60 and you better hold on to that old EQ1 gear.

[Cecily]

I see what happened. Welcome back Marcus.

[Gregor]

Your system is not EQ2 it's an expansion.

Luclin and PoP were easily fixable expansions. Without the Bazaar, space cats and overly generous exp zones(Paludal Caverns lol) Luclin would have been just fine.

All they needed to do with PoP was delete all the PoK teleportation stones and reduce the jump in gear and it would have been amazing.

EQ2 needed to be a highly advanced version of the classic days with less boring melee classes, not the button spamming nightmare and instant teleports everywhere with zero immersion like it is today.

[Blitzers]

The biggest problem was leveling structure, these minor cap raises were crap and it needed to make 61 nooby zones where blue cons were soloable the same structure EQ1 had and it would have been amazing. And yes no bazaar no fast travel

[Tankdan]

Skyshrine - One of the biggest and baddest zones, that hardly anyone ever got to experience. It's like 10x bigger than TOV yet barely utilized.

[heartbrand]

Poor itemization. Many difficult bosses drop worse loot than trash mobs. Gear being a form of progression didn't really come into play until late luclin. Trade skills basically were useless until PoP for the most part. AA's were cool but could've been implemented better. Not enough epic quests.

[iruinedyourday]

You can't pinpoint one problem when there are a million reasons Eq started sucking.

Here's how you fix it. P99. Done.

[Blitzers]

You can't pinpoint one problem when there are a million reasons Eq started sucking.

Here's how you fix it. P99. Done.

Yes millions of reasons, p99 is great and I hope it lasts forever

[SamwiseRed]

Verant launched EQ through Sony. Sony was involved from the start. This thread makes no sense.

Without Sony, EQ may have never launched so you should be thanking them.

I'd link proof but a simple google search will net you the results. I'll just leave you with Qeynos spelled backwards.

SonyEQ

[Blitzers]

Verant launched EQ through Sony. Sony was involved from the start. This thread makes no sense.

Without Sony, EQ may have never launched so you should be thanking them.

I'd link proof but a simple google search will net you the results. I'll just leave you with Qeynos spelled backwards.

SonyEQ

I will concede your point, Verant contracted for Sony, still doesn't change the fact Sony sux

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The eq2 emulator the p99 guys are halfway done with - p2004 - is gonna be awesome too. Basically addresses all the issues the OP mentioned about SOE and shit.

Red is probably your best bet till then.

[Mentathiel]

I will concede your point, Verant contracted for Sony, still doesn't change the fact Sony sux
Verant was just Smedley's RedEye team under a new name, the same RedEye which was created by Sony when they turned SISA into 989 and cut the Everquest team loose so that 989 could focus on sports sims.

Sony apparently thought Everquest would bomb, but Smedley believed in it and they agreed to publish. When it succeeded, Sony bought it back. Early EQ was given a little more creative freedom, since it was never expected to be a huge success, but nothing would have happened without someone in Sony allowing it and the core team was built by Sony anyway and strongly influenced by Sony's development culture, so to act like SOE was ever in any way not Sony would be naive.

[triad]

Verant was just Smedley's RedEye team under a new name, the same RedEye which was created by Sony when they turned SISA into 989 and cut the Everquest team loose so that 989 could focus on sports sims.

Sony apparently thought Everquest would bomb, but Smedley believed in it and they agreed to publish. When it succeeded, Sony bought it back. Early EQ was given a little more creative freedom, since it was never expected to be a huge success, but nothing would have happened without someone in Sony allowing it and the core team was built by Sony anyway and strongly influenced by Sony's development culture, so to act like SOE was ever in any way not Sony would be naive.

Smedley got turned down by the boss his first attempt .. after that boss got fired he asked the new one and he loved the idea and pretty much let them do whatever they wanted

[Mandalore93]

They took a huge creative risk by trying an unheard of direction with Luclin and taking an unconventional twist on the usual dungeons and dragons stuff. Sure to create an embittered minority but if it had been completely unpopular then their sub numbers wouldn't have kept increasing. Kind of got to cut the team some slack because they were dealing with problems that no one had yet dealt with. Kind of seems like they were successful since both the idea of the bazaar and plane of knowledge have been in pretty much every mmo with some small variation.

[HallyVee]

The only thing I would change, ever, is raising the definition of the terrain height map and textures. Even if they kept the actual geometry the same and just tessellated it a bit. Smooth over the edges, etc.

[Spud]

Holly windstalker

No, really I think itemization and planning for future expansions is where they went wrong

[maskedmelon]

Verant launched EQ through Sony. Sony was involved from the start. This thread makes no sense.

Without Sony, EQ may have never launched so you should be thanking them.

I'd link proof but a simple google search will net you the results. I'll just leave you with Qeynos spelled backwards.

SonyEQ

This ^ I am glad someone knows the history of EQ <3. As Samwise points out here EQ Was developed by 989 Studios a division of SoE's, subsequently spun-off into Verant Interactive as a separate online-game only development studio and then re-integrated under the SoE conglomerate. The idea that Verant was its own thing and Sony ruined it is a myth. What did happen is that Senor McQuaid left SoE with his bags of money and some talent to start work on VSoH, hence the rather rapid departure from original gameplay.

EQ2 was a fantastic game at launch, but too many people were enamored with the every-game-they-make-is-a-hit Blizzard alternative to recognize it. It was significantly more complex, engaging and better looking that the trivialized model presented by Blizzard.


Boo Blizzard :P


^^

[Swish]

They were stupid to go as high end as they did with EQ2. I think what put a lot of people off was that they wanted to play it but struggled with the high spec PC required to run it.

I did get to play but my PC struggled with it, and they nerfed the shit out of the difficulty on some quests/mobs fairly soon after it launched. Overall I didn't like that weird teamwork wheel where people could combine abilities to do more damage or some crap like that.

Gave it a month and quit.

WoW on the other hand was new, original and the poorest man in China had a PC that could run it.

[Mentathiel]

I remember playing EQ2 more or less at launch, starting out on a boat with no class and slowly (over the course of 20 levels) gaining the class-defining features for my swashbuckler.

I remember betraying Freeport, coming face to face with Lucan D'Lere and being executed as a traitor. I remember waking up in the Commonlands and having to make my way to Qeynos while still KoS to the guards. I remember the 1,000 gnolls I had to kill to earn my ring of citizenship and the right to a house in the city, the right to train beyond 19th level.

And I remember coming back years later to a game which I did not recognise...

[maskedmelon]

I remember playing EQ2 more or less at launch, starting out on a boat with no class and slowly (over the course of 20 levels) gaining the class-defining features for my swashbuckler.

I remember betraying Freeport, coming face to face with Lucan D'Lere and being executed as a traitor. I remember waking up in the Commonlands and having to make my way to Qeynos while still KoS to the guards. I remember the 1,000 gnolls I had to kill to earn my ring of citizenship and the right to a house in the city, the right to train beyond 19th level.

And I remember coming back years later to a game which I did not recognise...

Not to mention making your way through Nektulos at L11/12, unable to simply hug a zone wall like you can in EQ ^^. I loved the betrayal quests, they were epic. I checked back in a few years later and was disappointed to find those quests and the associated factions had been removed =/

[nilzark]

Implement item decay/damage much like Diablo...unless a trained blacksmith and/or enchanter fixed your stuff. How freaked out would you be if a high end item was about to be destroyed forever?

Face it, this game is about pixel wealth. Nobody has time for grouping.

[Mistle]

They were stupid to go as high end as they did with EQ2. I think what put a lot of people off was that they wanted to play it but struggled with the high spec PC required to run it.

High end specs for the fancy graphical gadgets, but the models still looked *terrible*. Bad animations, bad models. The textures were good, but that's like putting paint on shit.

The low poly WoW models were crisp, responsive, and the animations looked damn good.

Ignoring everything else, this was one thing EQ2 got completely wrong, and WoW got completely right. EQ2 models and animations were so bad they killed the game for a lot of people.

[Rivthis]

EQ2 failed because of the every 5 levels your old raid gear was worthless with the new gear they put out. Very frustrating to raid 5 days a week and get BIS just to have an expansion released and your raid gear is crap compared to the new groupable dropped gear.

[Blitzers]

The whole point of this thread is the leveling structure post L60 in EQ1 was unsustainable, they needed to make EQ2 a graduated Game were EQ1ers L61 could bring there characters but still be able to play EQ1 and Infact intertwine the 2 games. The leveling structure post Velious was just ignorant not to mention the zones all seemed void to me outside of the bazaar or PoK later. Level structure was the key and Sony botched it.

[heartbrand]

The only thing eq2 got right in my opinion was how they mixed open world contested bosses with instanced bosses, in EoF.

[Swish]

EQ2 failed because of the every 5 levels your old raid gear was worthless with the new gear they put out. Very frustrating to raid 5 days a week and get BIS just to have an expansion released and your raid gear is crap compared to the new groupable dropped gear.

The hours I put in before TBC on WoW grinding pvp ranks with a bunch of 10-15 other pals for the armor and all that, only to see every casual scrub wearing it 3-4 months later. I still don't think I'm over how shit that was of Blizzard.

Sure, it became redundant with the next expansion but at least those of us who had it actually put the time/effort in.

[Crawdad]

Smedley did nothing wrong.

[Cilraaz]

The only thing eq2 got right in my opinion was how they mixed open world contested bosses with instanced bosses, in EoF.

I would argue that the crafting system in EQ2 was one of the best in any MMO I've ever played.

[maskedmelon]

I would argue that the crafting system in EQ2 was one of the best in any MMO I've ever played.

I would have I agree with this. VSoH offered a more meaningful implementation, but EQ2's was by more entertaining by far.

[webrunner5]

I could never get into playing EQ2. Just did not work for me. Not sure how really successful it was in the long run for Sony?? :confused:

[Xer0]

You can't pinpoint one problem when there are a million reasons Eq started sucking.

Here's how you fix it. P99. Done.

I think you have something on your nose there. Server is far from the perfect eq experience.

[Paleman]

I would argue that the crafting system in EQ2 was one of the best in any MMO I've ever played.

lol the eq2 crafting system is now a glorified version of fucking whack a mole.

[Cilraaz]

lol the eq2 crafting system is now a glorified version of fucking whack a mole.

Whack-a-mole that produced different results depending on how well you whacked the mole versus:


Set quantity to 50
Hit go
AFK for a while

[Xer0]

Whack-a-mole that produced different results depending on how well you whacked the mole versus:


Set quantity to 50
Hit go
AFK for a while



dunno if you're referring to wow, but really what's so bad about that? I mean, yes when you have several hundred of something to "process" it's extremely tedious, but I dont see how it's laughable.. in eq you put 4 different items into a container and hit combine and boom your thread cloth and metal bits are by the magic of a button press, formed into a wearable piece of armor, all wow did is take a lot of the annoying repetition out of the formula and I don't think that's a bad thing.

[Nirgon]

Send me back in time to save Brad and prevent WoW from ever happening

[Cilraaz]

dunno if you're referring to wow, but really what's so bad about that? I mean, yes when you have several hundred of something to "process" it's extremely tedious, but I dont see how it's laughable.. in eq you put 4 different items into a container and hit combine and boom your thread cloth and metal bits are by the magic of a button press, formed into a wearable piece of armor, all wow did is take a lot of the annoying repetition out of the formula and I don't think that's a bad thing.

I agree that WoW's system was an improvement over EQ1's. I was saying that EQ2's system is/was (I haven't played EQ2 in years) better than WoW's.

And when I initially said "I'd argue...", I did mean that EQ2's system is arguably the best tradeskill system I'd seen. I'm sure there are plenty who don't like it or would argue that another system is better.

[Xer0]

Send me back in time to save Brad and prevent WoW from ever happening

I love all the hate WoW gets. People love to overlook the fact that it proceeded to define the genre despite the fact that it's apparently the most awful game to have ever existed. These two facts could not possibly coexist.

Don't get me wrong, it went downhill over the years, but it was always a pretty fun MMO. It may not have the challenge of classic EQ or even vanilla wow, but face it: Instanced dungeons and raids are tits (unless you find fighting about batphones and poopsocks fun, and spending hours discussing timeframes and rotations on bosses that people have had down formula for well over a decade.. you are probably in agreement with me; even if you don't know it), world pvp is way fun especially compared to the snorefest going on over at red 99

The population is insane, especially since about 80% (bad estimation, no real math or calculation involved, don't quote me)of their 12 million subscribes have returned witht he drop of WoD (was up to 10mil last I saw)since they merged open world zones for the collective battlegroups you never see an open world with no one in it. It's far from perfect, a lot of the systems in place make it a pain in the dick to level WITH somebody, but it's also FAR from the sperglord of an MMO you guys make it out to be.

Plus it has the added benefit of being based off of what is quite possibly the coolest Fantasy RTS Universe that ever was created :)

[Swish]

It was fun until daily quests and everything turning extra trivial to cater for the kids who got mad at having to "try" at something.

[Xer0]

It was fun until daily quests and everything turning extra trivial to cater for the kids who got mad at having to "try" at something.

They've addressed that a bit in the newest patch/expansion IMO. Its still not vanilla tier challenging, but you should have seen on the day the warlords pre-patched dropped, people died so so so much during dungeon runs. They made proper use of cooldowns/interrupts etcetc crucial to survival, and after 2 years of Pandarian EZ Moad no on knew how to handle it. So good.|

I agree that the idea of daily quests kind of made me nauseous at first; however it's more of a way to earn steady gold than anything, by no means a necessity.

And with draenor the daily quests actually change up a bit so it feels like you're actually doing things! amazing!

[maskedmelon]

If the masses like WoW, they can keep it and leave us to debate savor the finer titles of this genre, debating important things like the meanings of the words force and engage.

In all honesty I think most WoW hate is rooted in the understanding that the mass appeal of the WoW model rendered our preferred model unprofitable, essentially hijacking our fun!

[Mentathiel]

I actually enjoyed WoW at first. Even BC didn't kill it for me, since I enjoyed playing a blood elf paladin. It was all fine until I came back to try Cataclysm and noticed that my hunter no longer had any use for her melee weapons and my rogue could no longer apply her poisons.

Maybe they were good changes, but coming back from time away to find that I couldn't play the character the same way...

[Clark]

Your system is not EQ2 it's an expansion.

Luclin and PoP were easily fixable expansions. Without the Bazaar, space cats and overly generous exp zones(Paludal Caverns lol) Luclin would have been just fine.

All they needed to do with PoP was delete all the PoK teleportation stones and reduce the jump in gear and it would have been amazing.

EQ2 needed to be a highly advanced version of the classic days with less boring melee classes, not the button spamming nightmare and instant teleports everywhere with zero immersion like it is today.

No offense dude, but there was NOTHING wrong with Luclin. It was legitimately the second best expansion ever created.

[GreldorEQ]

I had no problem with Luclin. The group and raid content in SSRA was a lot of fun. Plus, the hardcore raiders stayed busy with Vex Thall so lots of older content became more available to the casual raid guild.

If PoP existed without PoK, I'd consider it to have the same effect that Luclin had.

[gauntlet]

The only thing that could have made it any better was increasing the difficulty. For example, less xp for killing critters.

[fadetree]

Yeah, I'm good with everything through PoP. The worst thing about luclin imo was the stupid exp available in that lowbie zone off of Shadowhaven, Paludal.

After PoP, not so much.