Necro or Enchanter for a solo class?

[Vanessa]

I was wondering what most people's opinion's were on solo leveling as an Enchanter vs a Necro? Most of what I've read on the forums seems to suggest that Enchanters are the best solo class because of charm, even though it is apparently not very reliable? However I always thought it was Necro's who were the best solo leveling class, also don't they get charm spells as well?

What are the main differences between the 2 classes in regards to playing as solo player, other then Enchanters get Clarity and Necros have a summonable pet?


Edit: Also quick added question, which of the classes would have an easier time with practically zero gear, or at least a very small amount?

[justin2090]

I think necro is better lvl'n because of the different ways they can kill stuff. Takes some of the monotony out of the game. Enchanter is better for higher lvl camps and wanted in groups more. Necro has alot of group tools but enchanter just wins out with haste, better cc, and clarity.

It's a long road either way so I would say just play whatever will keep your attention the longest.

[Estu]

Both are very powerful soloers. Enchanters do win out because they can charm anything, not just undead, which makes them more versatile in choosing camps. Both classes have a lot of useful tools for soloing: necros have snare, root, feign death, lifetaps, and lich (+mana regen at the cost of health), while enchanters have tons of mezzes, lulls, and stuns, as well as root, clarity, and slows.

EXP per hour with charming is gonna be faster than any other non-bard method, so whichever class you're playing, if you want to level as quickly as possible, charming is the way to go. From what I've heard, on Live charming was considerably harder than it is on P99, since it broke more often than here and root was also less reliable than here. So on Live, necro was maybe the faster leveler; on here, not necessarily so.

In my opinion, the enchanter beats out the necromancer in practically every way. The only thing you can really say the necromancer is much better at is lazy leveling: you can do easy stuff like root+dot or snare+fear+pet+dot which isn't as involved as charming and won't level you up as fast, but is nice if you want a more relaxed way to level.

In terms of gear, you can level both from scratch, no doubt. Charisma is definitely useful for enchanters, but you can do fine early on without having heaps of it. Enchanters can make money with jewelcrafting, even early on with silver and electrum combines, which can help you fund your own jewelry (easy +cha, +int, and +hp) as well as help you buy other gear.

[webrunner5]

Estu have some damn good advice on his post. I guess it is up to you playing style wise. I will admit Charming is the fastest way to go but it takes a shitpot full of consecration to pull it off. It gets very stressful in the long run.

A Necro is a bit more laid back, but because of that can get repetitive as hell also. A Necro gets every spell in the game high end other than SoW or Ports. And with J Boots that only leaves one.

But a Enchanter is more than welcomed in any group where a Necro it is sort of hard to get in a group. Very few people play them like they have to the potential too. I think when Velious comes out their Dots will have time to run their course and become more viable as a group member then. As of now mobs just die to quick to cast a DoT and the pet does not do enough DPS compared to a Mage pet to bother.

So now a Necro is pretty much a solo class on here and a Enchanter can be both. :( But a Chanter takes a LOT of Cha gear to be good at Chamring.

[DrKvothe]

I honestly don't know why everyone isn't an enchanter. They're the most important class in groups, they're the strongest soloing class, and they can duo/trio extremely effectively with most other classes. They don't have to worry as much as other classes about faction, they get their OT hammer for free, and they don't have a terrible exp penalty.

They have, imo, the most diverse options for how to play out of all the classes. You can charm a pet, send it into a group, root the whole group, break charm when pet is low and nuke pet, rinse and repeat with the rest of the group. You can help 2 mobs work their way through each other's hp, break charm, nuke them both. You can fear kite with a rogue pet backstabbing, particularly effective in outdoor zones with a snarer duo. You can root a really tough mob, charm it long enough to give it weapons and buff it, break charm and keep it rooted and use it to bring down the hp of other charmed mobs (when they're low hp, break charm and nuke). And there's more strategies that open up when duoing/trioing.

[thieros]

I honestly don't know why everyone isn't an enchanter

because then you can't afk!

[Vanessa]

So it sounds more like in regards to the actual classes Enchanter is the one that beats the Necro, however is much harder to play and is stressful. Where as a Necro can get the job done also, but is more relaxed and doesn't require as much concentration?

Someone mentioned in Velious that Necros may be wanted more because their DoTs are made better use of? Is that the only thing Necros have to look forward to in Velious? What about Enchanters in Velious? I will only have time to play casually, so I doubt I will hit max level before Velious is released so I suppose it is something to consider.

[Feathers]

What are the main differences between the 2 classes in regards to playing as solo player, other then Enchanters get Clarity and Necros have a summonable pet?


I've soloed an necromancer to 50 on live, and I never used charm. Fear kite is the easy solo way for an necromancer. Darkness, Fear, Pet, Dot, Repeat. Also, with feign death and screaming terror, I was able to split just about any camp I wanted to hunt at.

I've raided up to planes of power on an enchanter on live, and I never soloed. I was never good at charm kiting. I see enchanters doing it, and I'm impressed, but I could never get the damn thing to work right. It would also get super boring for boss encounters. "Oh look at me!! 1100 points of damage!! WEEEE!!!"

Enchanters get just about every utility buff in the game. By "utility" I mean things like see invis, levitate, water breathing, etc. Necromancers don't have many buffs to share, but they have a self version of all of those things. Necromancer's life exchange spells begin at level 4 with dark pact. It's not a lot, but it's nice to have mp regen at level 4.

I think enchanter solo is harder, but gives more xp. Necromancer fear kiting is pretty easy and it awards xp!

Necromancers are more fun too. Enchanters are just these prissy High Elves who obsess over how Charisma they have. Necromancers have no Cha, get to drink on Sunday. and our pets GIGGLE as they bash your head in! It's great!

[kaev]

I honestly don't know why everyone isn't an enchanter....

Chanters can't raid alone you know. There are vital roles to fulfill:

Ranger: take the DT to make the raid official
Warrior: scream "Wait for assist dammit! Stop being bad!"
Paladin: complain about being unimportant then ghost when you hit 60
Shadowknight: be stoic so nobody mistakes you for an ugly Paladin without an epic
Druid: ask in /gu what class alt you should twink to be useful at a raid
Cleric: band together with the other Clerics to use the Warrior as the focus for your amazing stackable damage soaking ability
Shaman: be a raid buffing hero for a month or two and then ghost when you get Torpor
Necro: twitch them Clerics, then FD so you can rez a Cleric after the wipe because everybody ignored the Warrior
Mage: boast about awesome epic pet, whine about all the resists, poop modrods like you've got a bad case of the shits
Wizard: nuke shit because "OMG I am actually desired and useful here!"
Rogue: stab shit because the damned Wizards always go OOM
Bard: stand around looking sharp, giving godly resists to your group., and thinking well of yourself
Monk: somebody's gotta train the raid Buckwheat, and you're elected!

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Brilliant summary, Kaev pal

[fadetree]

Chanters can't raid alone you know. There are vital roles to fulfill:

Ranger: take the DT to make the raid official


Well! In velious, this changes to ;

Ranger : pop WS for 24 seconds of being an aggro generation unit and then splatting all over the tank.

[Malone88]

So it sounds more like in regards to the actual classes Enchanter is the one that beats the Necro, however is much harder to play and is stressful. Where as a Necro can get the job done also, but is more relaxed and doesn't require as much concentration?

Pretty accurate. Necros do get a few nice solo tools that chanters don't get: FD, self-heal (lifetap), and self-rez. Enchanter at low HP pretty much has to sit on his/her a$$ and regen. Outdoor soloing for necros = easy mode.

[Clark]

As someone who leveled a Necromancer to 60 followed by an Enchanter to 60, hands down go with Enchanter. As long as it suits your play-style. Not to knock Necromancers, but some people just prefer them and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Itap]

Wish I had never sold my Necro, he could pretty much solo what he wanted (as long as the mob was within level range and did not summon). Still, does not compare to what an Enchanter can do

[Nuggie]

Necro's will be a more attractive class for raid guilds come velious. Going to be hell the first few months as the heal team figures out how to manage mana regeneration through those 300k hp fights.

[pasi]

More attractive, but still terrible.

It took Funeral Pyre and high AC mobs to bring necros back to DPS mediocrity. DOTs did fuck all until they changed Extended Affliction Foci to Burning Affliction while simultaneously halving DOT durations while keeping the overall damage the same. At that point, they became competitive.

Prenerfed mod-rods are what fuel your CH chain in Velious, not twitch. Pretty simple to manage, have a few mages shitting rods in a corner for 3 minutes before you engage the dragon. Have the druids who haven't rerolled clerics heal the clerics. Torpor is effective for healing modrods, but the important piece here is that you want your druids to feel ashamed of the choices that they made at the character select screen.

[DarkwingDuck]

More attractive, but still terrible.

, but the important piece here is that you want your druids to feel ashamed of the choices that they made at the character select screen.

I laughed. :):rolleyes:

[khandman]

You could always try and level one of each of the classes to a certain level, and then decide which one you prefer.

[Enderenter]

In terms of speed of xp / effectiveness, it's pretty simple. If you are going to charm the majority of the time you are soloing, Enchanter. If you aren't going to charm, Necromancer.

[Nagash]

In terms of speed of xp / effectiveness, it's pretty simple. If you are going to charm the majority of the time you are soloing, Enchanter. If you aren't going to charm, Necromancer.

Disagree with you, a charming necro is as fast if not faster and safer.

[kaev]

Disagree with you, a charming necro is as fast if not faster and safer.

The phrase "charming necro" triggered flashbacks of that old Dark Shadows TV soap my mother watched when I was a kid, now trying to purge brain...

[Iumuno]

Disagree with you, a charming necro is as fast if not faster and safer.

Agreed. Xp wise, if and when it's possible to charm, necros have better mana regen, and way easier time to finish mobs and it's safer as well.

Enchanters strengths are into big game hunting and getting loot.

[Enderenter]

Disagree with you, a charming necro is as fast if not faster and safer.

I said if you aren't going to charm. Necro charming undead is great, but limits you to undead zones.

[Satren]

I have never seen an enchanter soloing and I have seen heaps of necros, druids, monks, and especially mages soloing so even though my experience is limited that should give you some indication that enchanter players prefer to group for whatever reason they may have.

You have never seen it therefor it does not exist! Get over your self with some of your questions you maybe have spent a few months playing EQ.

[Gimp]

I have never seen an enchanter soloing and I have seen heaps of necros, druids, monks, and especially mages soloing so even though my experience is limited that should give you some indication that enchanter players prefer to group for whatever reason they may have.

Because the enchanters are deeper in the dungeons soloing harder mobs to get some pixels to go along with their exp.

Enchanter solo capabilities are 10x of every class you just listed.

[thieros]

I have never seen an enchanter soloing and I have seen heaps of necros, druids, monks, and especially mages soloing so even though my experience is limited that should give you some indication that enchanter players prefer to group for whatever reason they may have.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=694777#post694777

[kaev]

When y'all here a voice from underneath the bridge, it might just be, you know...

[thieros]

Wow I would like to raise the troll flag on that statement. I am missing the swarms of solo enchanters that have overtaken the server since they are 10 times better than bard kiting and magician/necro solo capabilities.

still: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=694777#post694777

[Gimp]

weak troll

[Satren]

I played an enchanter up to 17 trying to solo in 03 and quit because I kept dying and it was incredibly frustrating. The only other class I played before that was a cleric to 23 and if a cleric thinks another class is frustrating to solo with, then that should tell you something."

Looking at your experience in EQ and all of your stupid questions you are a noob and need to stop posting what you think are "facts" most of the time is just wrong. Just because you do not see enchanters soloing does not mean they do not exist, Especially with a career history of such that you have talked about.

[DrKvothe]

I f--king hate you MarcusD. You're a great troll, but new players are going to come across your posts and learn ridiculous stuff. This necessitates us actually responding to your bullshit.

You've charmed a little bit as a druid. Imagine if everything in the game was flagged as an animal, and that in place of a bit of healing, snare, and sow, you had single target and aoe mez, really fast cast aoe stuns, magic debuffs, attack speed slow, fear, haste, and clarity. In other words, druid charm + OP utility + OP mana regen + OP crowd control.

Additionally, casters are at their worst compared to other classes in the early game. 0.5 or better ratio weapons are available for all melee classes for <200pp. At higher levels, mob hp/dmg starts to scale considerably faster than melee hp/damage. Therefore charming becomes more and more powerful relative to other types of .

Enchanters can walk into dungeons that are dark blue to them and solo crawl through the dungeon. Bard circle kiting solo is entirely different. Enchanters can solo/duo dungeon content that most classes only get to experience in 5-6 man groups throughout the entire game.

A large part of the value of druid charming, imo (and many will probably disagree), is how damn powerful enchanters are, because druid charming makes you an ideal duo companion for enchanters. You can heal, but unlike the other healing classes you also bring snare and animal charm.

[Enderenter]

I f--king hate you MarcusD. You're a great troll, but new players are going to come across your posts and learn ridiculous stuff. This necessitates us actually responding to your bullshit.

You've charmed a little bit as a druid. Imagine if everything in the game was flagged as an animal, and that in place of a bit of healing, snare, and sow, you had single target and aoe mez, really fast cast aoe stuns, magic debuffs, attack speed slow, fear, haste, and clarity. In other words, druid charm + OP utility + OP mana regen + OP crowd control.

Additionally, casters are at their worst compared to other classes in the early game. 0.5 or better ratio weapons are available for all melee classes for <200pp. At higher levels, mob hp/dmg starts to scale considerably faster than melee hp/damage. Therefore charming becomes more and more powerful relative to other types of .

Enchanters can walk into dungeons that are dark blue to them and solo crawl through the dungeon. Bard circle kiting solo is entirely different. Enchanters can solo/duo dungeon content that most classes only get to experience in 5-6 man groups throughout the entire game.

A large part of the value of druid charming, imo (and many will probably disagree), is how damn powerful enchanters are, because druid charming makes you an ideal duo companion for enchanters. You can heal, but unlike the other healing classes you also bring snare and animal charm.

/thread

Young Druid also neglected to mention what I consider to be the 2nd most powerful solo class (possibly the most powerful in Velious), Shaman.

[maskedmelon]

An important point to understand about chanter solo is that it is not easy to do. Yes, chanters can be exceptionally powerful characters... When played by exceptionally talented players. The reason we don't see chanter solo much is because it simply does not occur much. There are very few players with the right balance of patience, insanity and testicular fortitude to pull it off...

As a new and/or casual player with limited playtime, soloing a necro will be infinitely more enjoyable than soloing an enchanter. If you preferred to group more or were really only concerned with developing the most powerful character possible, then I would recommend the enchanter. It sounds to me though that you are looking for whatever character will best enable you to enjoy your limited time (without need of group) in game. Necro works well for that, but I might also suggest Druid.

[toolshed]

Played a raiding enc and bard on live, and my first char on P99 was a necro (level 45 right now)...... go necro.

CC for a group? I would go necro > bard > enc. Sounds crazy, but at least with a bard you can take some hits, and with the necro at least you can FD. Encs in groups are the first to die and you have a lot of people that are accidentally sending their pets on mobs and breaking charm. As a necro I can easily handle 4-5 mob pulls; if your puller is pulling more than that at a time, they're awful and are essentially training the group.

Clarity? Important yes but if there is a cleric it isn't that important actually. The cleric should be complete healing ONLY on the MT, and with the necro you have awesome heal over times that can top off the puller or DPSers that grab agro. Necros get the best mana regen in the game and can give mana to clerics if they need it

Haste/Slow? Probably better to grab a shaman to be honest. You get a backup healer plus awesome buffs. Easier on the mana to spread those responsibilities out because a couple of resists on a slow or mez can easily lead to several unslowed monsters running around hitting people.

Enchanters are really fun but they rely on how well the group works as a unit more than any other class. Playing with a bunch of tired randoms? It's not going to be a fun time. Playing with a lot of good friends that always /assist? More fun. Going lone ranger and charming yourself through the levels? Going to be a fun time as an enchanter.

TLDR: Necros just get so many fun toys that enchanters WISH they had: Instant invis /w Circlet of Shadows, HEALS, feign death, DA, and a pet that is actually worth something (charming a pet + being on CC + being on haste/slow duty = bad time as an Enc and can easily lead to wipes with a couple of resists). I was going to roll an enchanter on P99 until I saw Sessendrix's guide to Necros (my role was going to be CC), and I'm glad I did. I can easily keep 2-3 dark blue mobs CCed in camp while adding great dps and heals to the group. Oh yea, and I never die. Necros are basically the bards of casters - it takes a skilled player to know what to do when because you have *so much utility*. Enchanters are very linear, but they excel really well in their area.

[DrKvothe]

Enchanters shouldn't cc, slow, and charm in the same group. If you're getting mostly singles, sure, slow and charm. If shaman is on slows, charm! If pulls are rough and you're on slows, don't charm. Better to lose the dps than risk the wipe.

Shaman has similar problems without an enchanter. With no c, keeping haste up and slowing everything w/ 70% slow is tough. Melees gonna have to deal with clicky buffs.

[webrunner5]

Playing a Enchanter well is Hard Mode. Playing a Nerco well is not Easy Mode but a hell of a lot easier.

I agree, very few people can play a Enchanter super well on here. It sure as hell is not my cup of tea daily. My biggest Twink on here is a Enchanter. And I have a LOT of Twinks. Not money wise, but for the total package of Cha, HP, Int etc. Damn, there are times I just want to sell every bit of gear it has and Give it up.

But man, what the damn thing can do when I am in the mood to really get into it. :D Helps to be sober, not falling asleep, on the phone, watching porn flicks, ergo, head up your ass, etc. Well that leaves a lot of people out of the equation on here. :eek:

But if you can hack one, an Enchanter is top dog as of now, but it takes a special person to play one day after day well. But a Necro is no slouch either.

A Necro will be more needed in Velious for, I know boring, for Corpse Retrieval. Best have some plat stashed away for paying for their Coffins, and a NICE tip to boot :p

Oh, and also have some plat stashed away for Mage COTH. :D Well also Cleric Rez. You WILL need them lol. I can tell you more Enchanters will than Necros will. Enchanters become REALLY Squishy in Velious.

[SCB]

Leveling an enchanter was so fun all the way through that i seriously considered rolling a second ench. ended up realizing how insane that would be and went ranger. not sure that's better.

[webrunner5]

Leveling an enchanter was so fun all the way through that i seriously considered rolling a second ench. ended up realizing how insane that would be and went ranger. not sure that's better.

Holly Smokes, you are a truly special person, say Masochistic Person, to do that. :eek::eek:

[w1zard]

necro for safe and consistent leveling

enchanter for tackling higher level targets and being more useful in groups

[Vexenu]

Enchanters are super powerful but kind of annoying to play, especially with charm soloing. They require your total undivided attention because charm can break at any second. There's also a lot of spell swapping, and even with good play you're pretty much guaranteed to die more than any other class both solo and in groups.

Necros aren't as powerful as Enchanters, but are more versatile, more forgiving and require less attention to play. While the Enchanter is pretty much always going to charm while soloing, the Necro can fear kite, root rot, or charm depending on his level range and the zone he's in. The Necro's ability to feign death and lifetap also make soloing much easier. If the Enchanter screws up bad, he's probably going to die. The Necro just FDs. And if the Enchanter screws up moderately and manages to live but is at 30% health, he's got to sit around for awhile. The Necro just drops his lifetap DoT on the next mob.

If you're the type of player who wants to be as powerful as possible and don't mind giving the game your undivided attention, go Enchanter. If you're the type of player who enjoys versatility over raw power and prefers a lazier, more forgiving style of play, go Necro.

[webrunner5]

How are they super powerful at charm soloing? They don't have the tools one needs to charm solo.

Charm solo reqires the ability to:

1. heal your pet
2. nuke
3. root
4. ensnare
5. buff pet
6. Run away

Enchanters only get 3 of the 6. Druids get all but are limited to animals. If the charm breaks anytime except the perfect time well you are probably going to die. Die=xp loss=rage=quitting enchanter/broken keyboard/mouse.==> slow leveling=>transition to grouping.

Tell me again how a class with no hp and cloth armor can stand up to two angry powerful monsters wailing on them?

Oh Jesus Christ, you are so stupid you are scary!! Why don't you shut the hell up. You have NO CLUE about this game. God help us all with your dumb ass posts.

Did you EVER hear about Mez you dill weed! Quit spewing a bunch of false crap on here to new people trying to learn things. You have to be a Blond.

[webrunner5]

Enchanters are super powerful but kind of annoying to play, especially with charm soloing. They require your total undivided attention because charm can break at any second. There's also a lot of spell swapping, and even with good play you're pretty much guaranteed to die more than any other class both solo and in groups.

Necros aren't as powerful as Enchanters, but are more versatile, more forgiving and require less attention to play. While the Enchanter is pretty much always going to charm while soloing, the Necro can fear kite, root rot, or charm depending on his level range and the zone he's in. The Necro's ability to feign death and lifetap also make soloing much easier. If the Enchanter screws up bad, he's probably going to die. The Necro just FDs. And if the Enchanter screws up moderately and manages to live but is at 30% health, he's got to sit around for awhile. The Necro just drops his lifetap DoT on the next mob.

If you're the type of player who wants to be as powerful as possible and don't mind giving the game your undivided attention, go Enchanter. If you're the type of player who enjoys versatility over raw power and prefers a lazier, more forgiving style of play, go Necro.

That is a great post. One of the best, simplest explanations of the two classes you can come up with. Well done. :D

[kcsdman]

How are they super powerful at charm soloing? They don't have the tools one needs to charm solo.

Charm solo reqires the ability to:

1. heal your pet
2. nuke
3. root
4. ensnare
5. buff pet
6. Run away

Enchanters only get 3 of the 6. Druids get all but are limited to animals. If the charm breaks anytime except the perfect time well you are probably going to die. Die=xp loss=rage=quitting enchanter/broken keyboard/mouse.==> slow leveling=>transition to grouping.

Tell me again how a class with no hp and cloth armor can stand up to two angry powerful monsters wailing on them?

http://s22.postimg.org/p52lsx029/MD_the_troll.jpg

[Pyrocat]

Torpor is effective for healing modrods, but the important piece here is that you want your druids to feel ashamed of the choices that they made at the character select screen.

You, I like you.

[-Catherin-]

Breaking your charm and mem blurring your pet into a non agro state causes it to regen 5% HP a tick. This is how good enchanters heal their pets.

[Jimjam]

How are they super powerful at charm soloing? They don't have the tools one needs to charm solo.

Charm solo reqires the ability to:

1. heal your pet
2. nuke
3. root
4. ensnare
5. buff pet
6. Run away

Enchanters only get 3 of the 6. Druids get all but are limited to animals. If the charm breaks anytime except the perfect time well you are probably going to die. Die=xp loss=rage=quitting enchanter/broken keyboard/mouse.==> slow leveling=>transition to grouping.

Tell me again how a class with no hp and cloth armor can stand up to two angry powerful monsters wailing on them?
Enchanters get rune, that is essentially +hp, and also get +max hp and +ac buffs. They also get very fast casting AoE stuns, which helps them manage a simultaneous charm/root break. Run speed can be improved with sow potions, j/tboots or simply the help of passing players. Also strafing while running is faster than running alone for cheapos.

Healing your pet is not really required while charm soloing. If it gets low, break charm, kill it and then charm a new pet. Easy. Being an enchanter means you can charm whatever Tom, Dick or Harry mob that paths by. Enchanters don't need pet only buffs either; their buffs work on players AND pets.

Also, you misused the word 'require'. Require means something is needed; Really only charm is needed. The extras only serve to make the process easier.

Further, enchanters get resist debuffs which reduce the chance of nuke/charm/root being resisted/breaking early. Enchanter charm is also easier as enchanters get access to +cha buffs (which improves the chance for charm to stick).

Enchanters also have mem blur; if things go really bad they find it much easier to reset than druids (who rely on zoning/camping).

[Conky]

Problem with soloing as an enchanter is you cant drink a 12 pack while doing it cause you start to die after 6 beers.

[Llodd]

Never heard of root? pbae stuns ? or mez/ ae mez?

Someone put up that ignore this poster link, I dunno how to do it.