Bard Charm

[astuce999]

In its classic form, bard charm had a lvl limit of 55, not 51.

Look in same info that gave you the 3 tick duration and 20 mana cost, you'll see level limit is 55. A yellow con should not say too high for me to charm.

thanks!

Astuce Subterfuge

[Lazortag]

A yellow con will ALWAYS be too high to charm because it had a level limit of your level or level 51 (55?), whichever was lower. This is widely known. At one point it had a level limit of 55 with no restriction on mobs having to be your level or lower (I think the mobs had to be 10 levels higher than you at most), but this was very shortly nerfed to 51.

[Glitch]

A yellow con will ALWAYS be too high to charm because it had a level limit of your level or level 51 (55?), whichever was lower. This is widely known. At one point it had a level limit of 55 with no restriction on mobs having to be your level or lower (I think the mobs had to be 10 levels higher than you at most), but this was very shortly nerfed to 51.

didnt that happen because bards were charming cazic thule or something?

[Lazortag]

That's what I read too, so it's probably true.

[Haynar]

In its classic form, bard charm had a lvl limit of 55, not 51.

Look in same info that gave you the 3 tick duration and 20 mana cost, you'll see level limit is 55. A yellow con should not say too high for me to charm.

thanks!

Astuce Subterfuge
Working as intended.

Haynar

[astuce999]

What about this link then, which was used before as the standard for bard charm:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010522061340/eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1057

BARD SPELL DETAILS
Name: Solon's Bewitching Bravura
Level: 39
Mana: 20
Class: Wind, not required
Vendor(s):
Kelethin Bard Guild
Approx Spell Cost: Unknown
Researchable: No
Type: Single Target Random Duration Charm
Max Duration: 18 seconds
Casting Time: Instant
Recast Time: Instant
Actual Effects: Target: Charm (Max Level 55)
Description: This song will charm the target mob and make it your pet. This song has a maximum duration of 3 ticks, or 18 seconds, much like Solon's Song of the Sirens.

On 3/13/00, the mana cost was increased from 5 to 20.

Click Here to report an error in this spells information.

[Lazortag]

What about this link then, which was used before as the standard for bard charm:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010522061340/eq.castersrealm.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=1057

BARD SPELL DETAILS
Name: Solon's Bewitching Bravura
Level: 39
Mana: 20
Class: Wind, not required
Vendor(s):
Kelethin Bard Guild
Approx Spell Cost: Unknown
Researchable: No
Type: Single Target Random Duration Charm
Max Duration: 18 seconds
Casting Time: Instant
Recast Time: Instant
Actual Effects: Target: Charm (Max Level 55)
Description: This song will charm the target mob and make it your pet. This song has a maximum duration of 3 ticks, or 18 seconds, much like Solon's Song of the Sirens.

On 3/13/00, the mana cost was increased from 5 to 20.

Click Here to report an error in this spells information.

As was said, the max level is innacurate, and many other sources confirm this.

edit: like this one: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/bard_charm.php

[astuce999]

More info: from http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20000417.html

APRIL 17, 2000

Today's patch consisted of preparations for the launch of Kunark, as well as some new art. The following spell changes were also included:

* Corrected a bug with a new bard song that allowed them to charm anything, such as deities and dragons.
* Added a lesser included wisdom effect with "Brilliance" as well as a lesser included intelligence effect with "Insight". These spells will no longer stack.

So bard charm was at level 55 at least all the way to right before kunark launch.

[astuce999]

Even from your link Lazortag, it says :

The new level 39 charm
The level 39 charm fixed charm kiting by adding a mana cost. So the bard could charm kite, but not forever. GZ was always a big proponent of kiting, and I am guessing this was the end solution: kiting was allowed, but limited in duration.

I don't know the whole internal story behind the 39 charm. I don't know if it was meant to scale up with bard level, or had a charm cap equal to the highest kunark charms, or what. It was added fairly close to the kunark release, after the kunark spells were done. It worked on mobs up to level 55, and maybe higher.

[Lazortag]

Even from your link Lazortag, it says :

The new level 39 charm
The level 39 charm fixed charm kiting by adding a mana cost. So the bard could charm kite, but not forever. GZ was always a big proponent of kiting, and I am guessing this was the end solution: kiting was allowed, but limited in duration.

I don't know the whole internal story behind the 39 charm. I don't know if it was meant to scale up with bard level, or had a charm cap equal to the highest kunark charms, or what. It was added fairly close to the kunark release, after the kunark spells were done. It worked on mobs up to level 55, and maybe higher.

Right after that, it says:

All it took was a few gods getting charmed by bards for the nerf hammer to come down, and bard charm was changed to cap at 51. 51 was definitely the best cap pre-kunark, because so many encounters were designed assuming that cap existed. Having a higher cap made some of the toughest encounters at the time (PoS, etc.) easy.

Of course now, enchanters can charm level mobs over level 51 easily.

Kunark
Kunark came out and there was no improved bard charm. I'm guessing that the 39 charm was meant to be the charm for bards, and was meant to scale up in level cap as the bard gained levels. All bard songs are supposed to work this way, and there should be no need to ever improve an old bard song. But the code didn't exist. And then GZ left.

Prior to kunark, bards were at minimum the equal of enchanters in charm, and in most situations, better. The bard charm cap is 51 at level 39, 51 at level 50...and still 51 at level 60.

So before Kunark was released, the charm got nerfed. Is your suggestion that we should raise the cap to 55 for a few weeks, and then lower it to 51 again just to stay true to classic? Not to sound rude, but I just don't get why people complain about classic inconsistencies like this, when they're eventually-classic anyway.

[guineapig]

You might find this informative about bard charm changes:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NI7poMk7LnQJ:www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/bard_charm.php+bard+charm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[Lazortag]

nvm

[astuce999]

Right after that, it says:



So before Kunark was released, the charm got nerfed. Is your suggestion that we should raise the cap to 55 for a few weeks, and then lower it to 51 again just to stay true to classic? Not to sound rude, but I just don't get why people complain about classic inconsistencies like this, when they're eventually-classic anyway.


Yes, much like manastone, guise of the deceiver and rubicite I want them to implement something that is classic, which is going to be removed. I guess those are not close enough that you might argue around it, how about this, much like the cleric mask, which right now gives a lich like effect, which will be then nerfed right before kunark, including on all the ones that are already made and not just the future ones, I want bard charm to affect up to lvl 55 mobs (you can block dieties and dragons if you want), up until it is nerfed right before kunark.

Is it too much to ask for some of the good along with the bad from classic? (this is directed at lazortag, not haynar). We're already not getting the selo's overriding root classic feature. If they're gonna bring our charm down from 1 minute to 18 seconds (a 66 percent duration nerf), wouldn't it be logical that we gain that extra 4 levels at the same time, albeit for a few months only?

[Lazortag]

That's reasonable, but I sympathize with the devs if they don't want to change something just to change it back again.