Kunark BPs vs Fungi

[Keyboard]

Does ac matter enough to encourage the use of class bps over fungi? Cobalt has hps to give larger CH pool, but what about when a shaman is healing? What about knights who don't have hps on their bp?

[zanderklocke]

My rule of thumb tends to be at lower levels you'll want fungi. However, at higher levels, the regen on the fungi is pretty negligible to how hard you're getting hit and how much damage you're taking upon hit. At this point you'll want to be wearing higher AC/HP gear to mitigate total damage. Plus, you'll be increasing your total HP so you can take bigger hits that come all at once.

In low levels, the regen you're getting from a fungi is going to be higher than the damage the mobs are dealing you, so it makes sense to equip this instead of a high AC/HP breastplate.

[falkun]

Huh? Lorean/Raev's warrior guide discusses the DPS in at King (one of the highest level single-group camps in Kunark) and parses them some 6DPS apart between a paladin tank and warrior tank (of course this DPS in is spread out amongst the whole group, not just damage against the tank). In that instance, 2.5HPS from Fungi (15/6) would make up for a load of healing, especially if you do not have CH.

IMHO fungi for anything that doesn't require warrior disciplines.

[kaev]

#firstworldproblems

[zanderklocke]

Huh? Lorean/Raev's warrior guide discusses the DPS in at King (one of the highest level single-group camps in Kunark) and parses them some 6DPS apart between a paladin tank and warrior tank (of course this DPS in is spread out amongst the whole group, not just damage against the tank). In that instance, 2.5HPS from Fungi (15/6) would make up for a load of healing, especially if you do not have CH.

IMHO fungi for anything that doesn't require warrior disciplines.

I'm confused on how you make the jump from that guide to how a mob's DPS is spread out on a fungi tunic. Aren't there are differences in mob DPS based on the AC of an item equipped?

How would the AC on the paladin and warrior's breastplate affect the 6 DPS vs a Fungus Covered Scale Tunic though?

Sakuragi is a bad example for being an iksar, but I'm guessing Pint is wearing a Deepwater Breastplate which is 40 AC versus a 21 AC Fungus Covered Scale Tunic. Wouldn't hits be statistically less damage on Pint when he is wearing the Deepwater Breastplate?

I mean I could be wrong, but I've always interpreted AC damage mitigation as meaning you are taking less total damage per hit.

P.S. Why you try to make me look dumb or wrong on your last 3 of 4 forums posts!?

[Exmo]

Fungi on this server I believe. You'll be over the AC Cap anyway.

[Danth]

Aren't there are differences in mob DPS based on the AC of an item equipped?

Not when that guide was made there wasn't. That's sort of the point. AC hasn't exactly worked very well here historically. Who knows about now; supposedly some additional AC-related changes have recently gone through.

As a rule of thumb, the less healing you need, the better the fungi gets*. If you're tanking a raid named and receiving large heals every few seconds, the effect of the fungi is functionally useless which is why you don't typically see raid main tanks wearing them. Against weaker monsters, a fungi can cancel out a fair portion of incoming damage.

Danth

[Tankdan]

In ANY long term group situation, a Fungi is superior (unless cleric is using a Donals BP to heal). It aint even close. The tank is healing himself at all times, even downtime. It makes the healers job a lot easier than if he had a couple more points of HP/AC. It is very noticeable at high levels as well as low levels.

[Buriedpast]

Fungi any time outside of raid tanking or Donals BP heals.

Applies to every class that can wear a fungi. I even wore one on my cleric 90% of the time as who cares if I cop a few hits. Swap in Donals as needed and be less lazy :p

[falkun]

I'm confused on how you make the jump from that guide to how a mob's DPS is spread out on a fungi tunic. Aren't there are differences in mob DPS based on the AC of an item equipped?
The general consensus is that AC is not as important on this server as it was on Live (Loraen states as much in his guide):
(yes Virginia, AC is indeed broken)
How would the AC on the paladin and warrior's breastplate affect the 6 DPS vs a Fungus Covered Scale Tunic though?
See above, but also realize that at that gear level, you've already hit the AC soft cap (assuming it exists/works), so trading AC for raw HPs (or regen) is the best gearing strategy.
Sakuragi is a bad example for being an iksar, but I'm guessing Pint is wearing a Deepwater Breastplate which is 40 AC versus a 21 AC Fungus Covered Scale Tunic. Wouldn't hits be statistically less damage on Pint when he is wearing the Deepwater Breastplate?
Saku is the perfect example because Fungi is BIS for all situations since iksars cannot wear cobalt. In the magelo's linked by Loraen, Saku is in Trooper Scale (20AC) vs. Pint's DW BP (40AC) vs. a Fungi at 21AC (assuming the -AGI mod does not drop you below 75AGI and the resulting -AC modification). Also, as a warrior Saku should be taking less damage than Pint whenever he's tanking due to warrior skill caps (defense, dodge, parry, riposte) being higher than that of paladins. Also, I think warriors classically had a higher AC soft cap than their fellow knight tanks (which should be replicated on P99 if true).
I mean I could be wrong, but I've always interpreted AC damage mitigation as meaning you are taking less total damage per hit.
Higher AC is supposed to decrease the median/mean Damage Interval selected by the random number generator when hits are calculated by the game, so that, on average, a player with higher AC will take less damage than a player with lower AC, assuming AC works as it should on this server. The damage mitigation is not on a per-hit basis, the Damage Bonus and Damage Intervals do not change, but the average/median (not sure which) DI selected is shifted inversly to AC (higher AC = lower average DI).
P.S. Why you try to make me look dumb or wrong on your last 3 of 4 forums posts!?
This is not personal, you just apparently respond to threads faster than I, so I have to respond to you and OP.

[Raev]

So those parses are a little old. A number of things have changed then: mobs seem to do a lot more damage since the previous patch, and Haynar has been patching AC to make it more effective. Also, those mobs are slowed. That makes a huge difference.

Sakuragi in those parses was taking like 18 dps in. If we assume the Cleric was CHing him efficiently for ~4000 each time, that means one CH every 200 seconds or 35 ticks if I am doing my mental math correctly. During that time our Cleric will regen 33 mana per tick or so with C2, or almost 1200. So Sakuragi is using like 1/3 of the healing power of our cleric. The rest of it was going to DL on the enchanter.

So the biggest conclusion from that parse IMO is that Paladins with their aggro spells can prevent the other members of the party from taking as much damage and then being healed very inefficiently. If targets are slowed, then the AC/HP of the tank is nearly irrelevant, which is why Pint came out ahead defensively. And my experience backs this up: I've seen rangers (Wiggedywoo) tank that camp just fine as long as they had a good shaman. And because of this, the Warrior is the best tank even without good aggro because the additional offense matters more. In other words: duh.

@OP: probably you should do your own test and see how it works out. All of the Kunark BPs are very cheap nowadays or you could probably borrow one.

[Pint]

Fungi > kunark bps, if you don't own a fungi and you plan to play here for long time like most of us then invest in a fungi and don't go selling it just bc you want to buy something shiny.

[Danth]

...mobs seem to do a lot more damage since the previous patch, and Haynar has been patching AC to make it more effective.

This might be relevant because I haven't noticed a lick of difference: since I mainly duo with a Shaman, I've always been something of an AC fiend. Maybe some new rounds of testing are in order....except I don't feel like bothering. It is what it is.

Last time I was in a full group at Spore King (admittedly a good while ago since folks don't really group it nowdays), there wasn't even a cleric in the group, just myself (SK),a couple of monks, a rogue, enchanter, and shaman. Group worked fine although I don't run parsers so I can't make a scientific comparison. Main thing to take away is that you don't really have to maximize your efficiency to do well in group content, so discussions on efficiency in that area are mostly academic.

Danth

[zanderklocke]

Everyone talks about hitting AC soft caps. What are those for each class? Am I adding value if I equip gear to go from 900 AC to 1000 AC on my bard?

[Raev]

Classic is a 289 worn item AC (i.e. add up the AC numbers on your gear) hardcap. However we have a softcap system here. I had a long flamewar with Rogean and Haynar over this; just accept it.

[captnamazing]

looks like it's time to move my fungi from my level 2 cleric and back to my warrior

[Cecily]

What's really important in EQ? Looking good AFK while level 7s ninja inspect you. Wear the Cobalt in case a level 7 comes down to King camp.

[thieros]

Can we get a Deajay v Zanderr duel in The Arena??!

[zanderklocke]

Can we get a Deajay v Zanderr duel in The Arena??!

Do I wear a SS BP, and he wears a Fungi?

To be honest, he'd probably win even when I have my epic. I don't really know how to PVP most efficiently on a bard.

[gobbosnobbo]

I play a cleric (60 aye), and I can tell a huge difference when the Monk and Warrior has a fungi and good set of armor on.

I don't have to get up as soon to Cheal, and more sitting, means more mana, and if your team is optimized and everyone does their jobs, you should be focused on trying to keep your mana stable and not bottom out.

I appreciate fungi tunics, they're amazing tools, and Iksars and Trolls add even more to the regen factors.

[pharmakos]

the math involved to prove it isn't difficult but i can't be fucked doing it right now =p but yeah fungi is best for pretty much all situations unless you're a raid tanking warrior.

wearing a fungi is +150HP a minute. that's not huge huge but its still pretty big.

[gobbosnobbo]

And being a troll or iksar at 60 is nearly that much too! Thats another 120!

So thats 270 per minute!

Then you throw in regrwoth at 15, so 150, and then thats 420!

That is a ton, 420 hp per minute.

[Gurbuuk]

The only problem with fungi is horrible look on Troll. Plus, as using a granite face grinder, you ll always get a "sow, plz!"

[justin2090]

Imo 3 stats that matter in this game

hp regen
mana regen
melee haste

[falkun]

Do I wear a SS BP, and he wears a Fungi?

To be honest, he'd probably win even when I have my epic. I don't really know how to PVP most efficiently on a bard.

Nah, don't say that. I got wrecked pretty hard in the botb by Fauss in the first battle of the bard botb. I'm not good at PVP, I imagine it would look like two chickens running around with their heads cut off, at Selo's speed.