Would PoP be considered classic if it was released before Luclin? [Archive]

Mistle

12-29-2014, 04:32 AM

Luclin and PoP were the second golden age of EQ. The original team designing it clearly had goals relating to the interaction between Sanctus Seru and Katta Castellum. However, halfway through making it, that team was dismantled and packaged to designing EQ, and much of what we can see in EQ2's version of Freeport and Qeynos can be seen reflecting what was originally planned for SS and Katta. I don't know if Shadowhaven was ever supposed to be what it ended up being.

Anyways the new team came in. Luclin was a horizontal expansion, meaning a lot of additional choices for leveling up, not just vertical progression. Unfortunately the risk/reward ratio was off and it became undesirable to level up in anything BUT Luclin zones, especially Paludal. It DID have vertical progression of course for the raiders. For some reason they put in the most mind numbing raid mechanics ever devised in mmorpgdom, huge hp high armor endurance boss fights with stupid amounts of trash that led to guilds having dozens of coth bots ready to go.

I find it hard to be nostalgic for that.

PoP came in as entirely vertical progression. This is why it would be desirable to a server like P1999 with a grossly overcrowded top end. There's little from Luclin worth salvaging, except perhaps Nexus to replace the worst thing that PoP added, which was PoK. PoK was a community destroyer and would be a fatal blow, slow in coming but unstoppable, to P1999.

Danth

12-29-2014, 06:05 AM

Doubt the devs here have any intent of doing anything past Velious. After over 5 years of development (probably nearer 6 by now) they're probably sick of it. If they did, I'd much rather see a fixed Luclin than any form of Planes of Power. I think there are options out there for folks who want a Planes-era server.

Danth

heartbrand

12-29-2014, 09:33 AM

There really aren't any good options yet for those of us who want PoP. I'm waiting to see how the eq Mac project will turn it out.

webrunner5

12-29-2014, 09:39 AM

Luclin in the beginning did not have PoK books in it. And I liked Luclin a LOT better than Velious which I was really never fond of other than a few zones.

But is was a BIG change from the previous expansions I will admit. The trouble is after Velious has been out on here for like 4 years like Kunark has what then? If that would have been as far as original EQ went they would have been out of business in 5 years. Guess what, they are still going.

Alanus

12-29-2014, 10:56 AM

Luclin's raiding sucked (timesinks, insane HP/AC mobs), but the one group content was pretty nice actually.

Brocode

12-29-2014, 11:52 AM

Nerf bards aoe kiting Plane of Valor please...

sorry just pre seeing the never happening future.

apio

12-29-2014, 12:07 PM

I think most peoples definition of "Classic" has a lot to do with who developed that expansion. Luclin/PoP were the first expansions made after Sony bought out EQ from Verant. I think anyway. I don't know the history of EQ that well so it is the first thought that comes to mind. Might be right, might not be.

As far as I know the game always belonged to Sony.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Online_Entertainment

a very common misconception, you are not the only one who thought "sony destroyed the game" when in reality they also brought us everything that we loved about the game :D

Edit: And all the PoP hate is amazing. Can not believe people still blame the PoK book and Nexus/Bazaar for the game dying. I guess you gotta believe in SOMETHING am I right?

Briscoe

12-29-2014, 12:17 PM

There were some good things to luclin. And some not so much. Emp 1.0 that DT every 2 min would be cool.

H

This doesn't sound fun to you?

Fix your goddamn buggy bullshit half-assed encounters. The amount of time we dedicated to get our keys to see this guy die and take a turn at the Emperor is just sick. To finally see Blood die only to have the ENTIRE raid DT'd from anywhere in the room was simply an insult. Blood dies, there are two earrings on the corpse, yet no matter where you are in the room, the Emperor DT's. So congrats rot on those. It's cheap enough to make a mob DT in the first place. But to have his agro radius extend to the entire room is ridiculous. So let me get this straight -- and this is how you guys envisioned this in San Diego: You spend months farming keys to get up to the room. Months farming Shissar Bane weapons (and the recipe is where?). You kill Blood while dealing with 8 other snakes in the room. And immediately after that fight you're supposed to engage the DEATHTOUCHING-FROM-ANYWHERE-IN-THE-ROOM Emperor along with the 8 snakes? Whoever came up with this sheer *fisting* of an encounter can go fuck themselves.

Calibretto

12-29-2014, 12:30 PM

Tigole, author of the most entertaining front page updates I've ever read. Triton's were pretty good while zaar was doing them too.

Diro

12-29-2014, 08:11 PM

Bypassing Luclin would be so badass. If they added Luclin it would just spread everyone out far too much IMO, for people that are leveling. Luclins endgame is fuckin shit anyhow. Who likes to afk raid in VT?

PoP would be a fuckin gold mine, I don't think anyone can complain about that. The only downside is the books. It completely destroys ports and socialization. Not to mention Rangers would be happy. Level cap increase, AA's, more progression etc. etc. etc.

It simply increases endgame (which is like 90% of the server?) while leaving classic alone. It must be done.

BoT enchanter pet farming anyone?

Pringles

12-29-2014, 08:22 PM

They have talked about maybe adding POP zones / planes here that are accessible though classic zones only. Would be sweet imo but I'm sure 5+ years out.

sox7d

12-29-2014, 08:28 PM

10/10 question, this thread.

loramin

12-29-2014, 08:29 PM

They have talked about maybe adding POP zones / planes here that are accessible though classic zones only. Would be sweet imo but I'm sure 5+ years out.

In another post one of the devs (possibly Haynar?) said that if they ever did custom content it would be purely custom, not a revamp of existing EQ zones. Apparently it's a lot easier for them to make new zones than it is to re-create existing ones.

Not saying it won't happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath (even after 5+ years).

sox7d

12-29-2014, 08:30 PM

As far as I know the game always belonged to Sony.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Online_Entertainment

a very common misconception, you are not the only one who thought "sony destroyed the game" when in reality they also brought us everything that we loved about the game :D

Edit: And all the PoP hate is amazing. Can not believe people still blame the PoK book and Nexus/Bazaar for the game dying. I guess you gotta believe in SOMETHING am I right?

Yeah, in highschool (2006) I got in fights with this kid whose dad worked on Everquest who said how sony always owned EQ, they wouldn't have made nearly as much money without pumping out expansions which is what businesses are for and I was fucking retarded.

Ran into him randomly 5 years later in a completely different state, he's pretty cool.

Daldaen

12-29-2014, 08:54 PM

Skipping from Velious -> PoP would be neat, but so much great stuff would be missed from Luclin.

All the General-Archetype-Class AAs -- Likely could still just add this to PoP
Luclin Spells - Group Aego, Group Marzin(Symbol), Group Elixir, Group Haste, KEI, AE Chorus (Regen or PR/DR/MR or FR/CR/MR) songs, Druid CH, No-Reagant Lev/EB, etc. etc.
**Many Luclin spells were limited to a single mob or camp, which made them more "questy" to obtain. Kunark/Velious spells are almost all just RNG based on whether you roll the dice and get Torpor or Aego to drop. Whereas Luclin had some great spell camps. No-reagent Lev was a single mob in the corner of the Deep. No-reagant EB was a single vampire in the Tenebrous castle. The AE Resist songs were limited to certain mobs as well.
Luclin Quests - There were some great ones. The Earring of Solstice was fantastic. Loyalist Shield of Honor was good fun, great 50 AC tank back. Seru Earring chain was awesome. I seem to recall many being a fan of the Shield of Bane Warding as well.
Luclin Tradeskills - So many good changes came to TSes in Luclin, it set the groundwork for PoP TS. See above Earring of Solstice quests for examples. Updated Cultural armor (Rallos Zek warrior armor was amazing). The steins with CHA/Mana etc.

And I would miss some of those fights.

Ssra and Akheva Ruins had some great raids.

High Priestess, the fight of 12 adds that chain respawn
Cursed, the fight of Charms, DTs, AE FDs and fun DoTs
Creator, learn2rampage tank and cure tanks
Arch Lich/Rhag 2, permarooted fights ftw
Emperor, a GREAT all-around fight. CC control, Off-tank control, Bane-weapons encouraged group-questing to advance your raiding power, Cure-control

Shei was probably the best Luclin fight mechanics wise, it had everything.

Fake mobs
Offtankable or charmable adds
Death Touches (you could negate the first with DA if clever)
Adds spawning upon death (first fight to penalize zerging)
Mana drain floor trap

Vex Thal did suck though. Once you had CotH bots parked around the zone it was more manageable but... Still was just a boring loot pinata. A loot pinata that allowed you to progress further into PoP if you didn't have the numbers to brute force your way past certain fights.

Taminy

12-29-2014, 09:58 PM

Vex Thal did suck though. Once you had CotH bots parked around the zone it was more manageable but... Still was just a boring loot pinata. A loot pinata that allowed you to progress further into PoP if you didn't have the numbers to brute force your way past certain fights.

I liked some of the effects on VT items though - but yeah it was a brutal raid.

Bumamgar

12-29-2014, 10:15 PM

I never really liked "cats on the moon" but I pretty much ignored that aspect of Luclin anyway. I did like AA, Luclin raiding and keying however. Some of my fondest EQ memories involve Ssra temple and getting keyed for VT. Oh, and I prefer new models to old, but I'm a heretic that way!

Pheer

12-29-2014, 10:28 PM

Pretty sure they already confirmed that AAs would never happen in their original form because they already ripped all of the AA code out.

It would be cool to have customized PoP content though. Replace PoK with nexus, do a little bit of custom lore saying its some kind of purgatory inbetween the realm of mortals and the realm of the gods. Have nexus accessible through a custom key quest involving killing high end velious content, then have nexus link up to just the PoP raid content. Maybe some kind of custom system to replace AAs for the people who like the grind, something along the lines of the tome system SoD uses.

Diro

12-29-2014, 11:07 PM

Well no matter I've just always like the ideas of being able to go to different planes. It would be awesome if they added custom content after velious though. Maybe some badass encounters to stump the top guilds? Anyhow I love the server with or without the idea of future content post velious.

Celatus

12-30-2014, 02:23 AM

Luclin had a lot of good stuff. PoK was good for the community it was a meeting place for everyone. Guild halls were bad for the community but I liked em anyway.

Detoxx

12-30-2014, 06:04 AM

Daldaen

12-30-2014, 09:52 AM

Fuck that Maidens Eye shard for VT key, spent countless hours there!
ME shard was easy if you knew what you were doing. Extremely easy with a bard.

Just gather a train and swarm suicide the 5-6 PHers and zone off. Come back in 20min.

For some reason the Fungus Grove shard was my bane though. I'd clear every single giant bug thing that could drop the shard and it would never drop. Something like 12 hours of clearing every spawn to get my druid that shard.

Bumamgar

12-30-2014, 09:59 AM

Easy enough in concept, sure. But if you are actually working on the quest when the content is new, there are guaranteed to be other groups farming the PHs. Not to mention, there was no guarantee that you'd get a drop when you came back 20 min later, so you might have to do your swarm over and over till you got the drop (assuming you found the mobs un-camped in the first place).

Daldaen

12-30-2014, 10:06 AM

Those guys dropped the shard probably 50-75% of the time I'd say.

I grant you that if people were camping them then obviously the method doesn't work. But that zone was such a terrible zone people rarely were there unless kiting. Which was great as a bard, could just swarm suicide Em and come back later.

Baxter

12-30-2014, 11:44 AM

I'd be okay with skipping SoL entirely and starting with PoP or custom PoP content. Bring along SoL's AAs, maybe Nexus, maybe Bazaar, but nothing else from that horrible expansion. PoP had content for every guild at every level and I had a lot of fun doing it. SoL made me want to jack it with sandpaper.

Laugher

12-30-2014, 11:52 AM

Would have to be the "more classic" baz if any :p none of that Omens/DoN revamp

Idk luclin was cool for leveling but Planes was great raids, had a lot of fun in a zerg on live (Prexus/Legion of Kings)

Nuggie

12-30-2014, 04:04 PM

In another post one of the devs (possibly Haynar?) said that if they ever did custom content it would be purely custom, not a revamp of existing EQ zones. Apparently it's a lot easier for them to make new zones than it is to re-create existing ones.

Not saying it won't happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath (even after 5+ years).

PoP would have less stuff to fix I'd think.

Also could just wipe it clean and start from fresh since it doesn't need to be classic or fit any description. Whatever they wanna do.

mokfarg

12-31-2014, 11:05 AM

PoP would have less stuff to fix I'd think.

Also could just wipe it clean and start from fresh since it doesn't need to be classic or fit any description. Whatever they wanna do.

I would rather they play with the trilogy more. They could do a lot with all the vacant zones that would feel more natural in the world of EQ. I would like to see a lot of long epic quest chains and maybe some adjustment of classes/game mechanics etc.

* Warriors could stand to have a little rework for a more natural way to obtain agro

* Experience could be reworked some to greatly reduce solo in favor of groups and also reduce things like power leveling by adding restrictions

etc etc etc

webrunner5

12-31-2014, 11:41 AM

I would rather they play with the trilogy more. They could do a lot with all the vacant zones that would feel more natural in the world of EQ. I would like to see a lot of long epic quest chains and maybe some adjustment of classes/game mechanics etc.

* Warriors could stand to have a little rework for a more natural way to obtain agro

* Experience could be reworked some to greatly reduce solo in favor of groups and also reduce things like power leveling by adding restrictions

etc etc etc

I would actually like the see them do the opposite on soloing. When Velious comes out VERY few classes will be able to solo. People do not have the time, grown up like most are, with families and jobs, to be in a group for hours at a time, and God help you if you want to Raid in Velious. We are talking Hours before the fight even starts. :eek:

So help more classes be able to Solo is what I am saying. Not Classic, but not having the time like when you were a kid in your mom's basement is sort of Not Classic either. :D

Biaxil

12-31-2014, 02:59 PM

I would actually like the see them do the opposite on soloing. When Velious comes out VERY few classes will be able to solo. People do not have the time, grown up like most are, with families and jobs, to be in a group for hours at a time, and God help you if you want to Raid in Velious. We are talking Hours before the fight even starts. :eek:

So help more classes be able to Solo is what I am saying. Not Classic, but not having the time like when you were a kid in your mom's basement is sort of Not Classic either. :D

No, gtfo. Worst idea ever. People come here to play CLASSIC EQ, not some modern dumb down solo-quest. If you don't have the time to play, then don't. I only play when I have time. Others come here for the challenge. So don't be a selfish prick. There are countless solo-quest games out there you can go play. We don't want this one turned to shit. That's why this server was made in the first place.

Plur

12-31-2014, 09:22 PM

I loved Luclin. PoP is where live eq lost me, too much stuff became trivialized.
Nexus was an awesome zone, and I really liked how you could travel to a couple different zones from the spires. The PoP books on the other hand... wayyy too much.

webrunner5

01-01-2015, 05:14 AM

No, gtfo. Worst idea ever. People come here to play CLASSIC EQ, not some modern dumb down solo-quest. If you don't have the time to play, then don't. I only play when I have time. Others come here for the challenge. So don't be a selfish prick. There are countless solo-quest games out there you can go play. We don't want this one turned to shit. That's why this server was made in the first place.

Oh come on, get off your high horse. This is JUST a F'ing game.

I only play when I have the time. NO shit, who doesn't? OH, sorry Honey, I know I shit on the floor, but I just didn't have the time to go to the Pot, It's EQ you know. Shit's not "Classic". Get a grip!

86753o9

01-01-2015, 06:19 AM

If a person likes luclin or PoP, why would he play project 1999 instead of live?

Doil_Boil

01-01-2015, 09:19 AM

I've heard the idea of attaching the PoP raid zones to the old world. Perhaps reworked with custom content by the staff. Seems like a really interesting idea.

Tiax

01-01-2015, 10:39 AM

People do not have the time, grown up like most are, with families and jobs, to be in a group for hours at a time

I hate it when people come out with this 'people' nonsense. What you mean is YOU don't have the time to play like you were a kid, but there are plenty of us still living in the proverbial basement who don't feel the game should be changed because you are a functioning human being.

harnold

01-01-2015, 10:59 AM

everyone is saying how luclin raiding was bad becuase of high hp/ac bosses....

So i guess that means velious raiding also sucks since thats the same exact thing

keep them at 32khp forever, i say

Satanicmajestysrequest

01-01-2015, 11:28 AM

I will admit at the time I really enjoyed PoP. The plane of knowledge was extremely helpful. Looking back though, I'm not sure I like idea of the books and whatnot.

fuark

01-01-2015, 11:31 AM

No, gtfo. Worst idea ever. People come here to play CLASSIC EQ, not some modern dumb down solo-quest. If you don't have the time to play, then don't. I only play when I have time. Others come here for the challenge. So don't be a selfish prick. There are countless solo-quest games out there you can go play. We don't want this one turned to shit. That's why this server was made in the first place.

Pretty much agree here. Threads like this are fun for theory questers, but by modifying the game at all away from the classic trilogy, you cheapen the project.

Jimjam

01-01-2015, 11:36 AM

* Warriors could stand to have a little rework for a more natural way to obtain agro

That's easy, fix taunt so it isn't autofail on yellow/reds (live devs eventually said this was an unitended bug that wasn't looked at since kunark) and make bash's stun have similar aggro stun spells (I think this disparity may also have been a bug, I think devs mentioned it when talking about the addition of the furious bash focus, but by that time the meta of the game had evolved too far away from original eq to just fix innate aggro on bash).

webrunner5

01-02-2015, 01:27 PM

That's easy, fix taunt so it isn't autofail on yellow/reds (live devs eventually said this was an unitended bug that wasn't looked at since kunark) and make bash's stun have similar aggro stun spells (I think this disparity may also have been a bug, I think devs mentioned it when talking about the addition of the furious bash focus, but by that time the meta of the game had evolved too far away from original eq to just fix innate aggro on bash).

I really have no clue why the original Devs made Agro so gimped on a Warrior. Hell they gave Rangers a Agro button. Like they NEED extra agro lol. They wanted people to group, but a Warrior was sort of the main person to be in one and they sort of suck at holding agro.

I guess maybe they wanted others in the group to have to CC?? Who knows what was in their minds? But overall they did a crazy good job with the original EQ. :)

Danth

01-02-2015, 02:58 PM

I prefer explanation "B" for that one: Simple incompetence. EQ wasn't perfect, and class balance obviously wasn't the strong point of the folks who originally made this game. Least with P1999 we know where we stand, relatively, so I don't care much about it like I did historically. This time, we know what to expect in advance.

Danth

Cecily

01-02-2015, 03:02 PM

everyone is saying how luclin raiding was bad becuase of high hp/ac bosses....

So i guess that means velious raiding also sucks since thats the same exact thing

keep them at 32khp forever, i say

I noticed the similarity after doing a few beta raids. Every high end fight in Velious is gonna feel like Vex Thal. Classic EQ sucks lol.

Mandalore93

01-02-2015, 03:32 PM

Sorry but as I've said before Luclin and PoP are just flat out mechanically superior expansions. People just have terrible memory when influenced by nostalgia and bad recognition of correlation/causation. They do have to be given a slight pass though seeing as it would be the first time many had to deal with top end bloat and inflation. The solutions the dev team made to combat this was pretty great in my opinion.

oldhead

01-02-2015, 09:18 PM

Luclin had it's things I disliked. Such as the whole cats on the moon concept and the bazaar. I did really like the new Beastlord class and LOVED the AA system. Some of the zones were really neat as well.

same

oldhead

01-02-2015, 09:19 PM

webrunner5

01-03-2015, 11:17 AM

Everything you said is wrong... how is that possible without trying?

I disagree. Luclin and PoP were well oiled machines compared to Classic. It was probably the Zenith of any game in the world at the time and I think probably the best era of the Original EQ. And Yes, I loved the Beastlord class and AA's also. The graphics in Luclin were over the top compared to Classic. Now I think some of the older character models looked better, Ogre, Troll, but the zones were just beautiful. :)

Bumamgar

01-03-2015, 11:32 AM

Everything you said is wrong... how is that possible without trying?

I disagree. Luclin and PoP were great expansions for a variety of reasons.

Luclin:

AA rather than level boost was an excellent idea. Not only did AA give players a way to increase their character's power, it also gave a bit of customization control to the player other than exclusively via gear. Pre-Luclin, there were few options for customization. Sure, people may have had some variety in gear, but there really wasn't that much variety at the high end. Character customization is a good thing.
Multiple key quests with gating mobs for end-game content. While there is some of this in Kunark and Velious (VP key in Kunark, Sleeper's key in Velious) they aren't nearly as comprehensive as Luclin with the Emperor and VT key quests. Heck, the keyed zone in Velious isn't even considered the 'end-game' zone, but rather a side trek for some nice toys. NToV is the end-game zone and can be accessed without any keying at all.
Tiered raid content. This trend really started with Velious, but Luclin takes it even further, with a fairly clear progression between open-zone raid mobs -> Ssra named -> Vex Thal

PoP:

Tiered content taken to it's logical conclusion, with only a few zones available initially, requiring personal flagging (via PoJ Trials) to access Tier 2 and then a combination of key quests and flagging to unlock later zones. Before the addition of level based access (a bad move, imho) there was a real sense of achievement when unlocking access to a new zone.
New tradeskill items breathed new life into the market, providing several items that were of use even to raid-geared characters.
Tiered quest armor. Ornate vs Elemental armor gave players a way to obtain decent gear without raiding, or raiders a chance to fill in a few slots that were lacking due to bad luck on drops. However, Ornate wasn't good enough to completely negate old content.
Pickup raid scene blossomed. For a variety of reasons, but largely due to the need for backflagging, the PoP era was a pickup raider / casual raider's dream expansion. Given the effort required and itemization of the tier 1 - 2 content in PoP, end-game guilds generally had no desire to monopolize this content. They did, however, need to flag new recruits and absentee members, so the PoP era saw a large number of open access, pickup raids on pre-elemental content. Also, given the amount of content available in PoP and the time investment required to farm elemental armor and key for things like PoEarth-B, end-game raiders were often kept busy enough in PoP that Luclin and Velious targets opened up to lower tier guilds and pickup raids as well.

Danth

01-03-2015, 12:25 PM

Missingo

01-03-2015, 01:02 PM

Beastlords were a great class but Luclin overall was meh for me. Wish we had beastlords on here (yeah I know its not classic, shaddup)

webrunner5

01-03-2015, 01:05 PM

I agree with Mandalore's statement that Luclin and Planes of Power are mechanically superior to the earlier expansions. However, I still enjoy the earlier expansions more; improved mechanics don't necessarily equate to more fun. The later expansions had faults of their own that for some players (such as myself) more than cancel out any gains from the mechanical and technological improvements.

Danth

I think we can all agree to your statement on here or we would not be playing P1999 lol. :p

But some people get, got bored doing the same old thing and wanted new content, and Luclin and Pop had it in Spades. It is just like here, some people have 10 alts or more now, and a lot have even moved to Red because of Kunark being out like going on 4 years now.

So you can't just lump everyone into one group and say you are right and they are wrong and vice versa. :D

webrunner5

01-03-2015, 08:57 PM

Sony can't always have own something they didn't create. It wasn't Sony's product initially, they bought the rights after Verant couldn't float the game anymore. Verant produced Kunark, Velious, and most of Luclin I believe, and somewhat had a hand in PoP, but anything after that was solely SOE's direction, and well...

Tell that to the Sony's lawyers. There is a reason none of the spin offs on all the servers you can log onto, even here, are free to play. :( And even Rogean has control of the Log in thingy. It is his baby.

apio

01-03-2015, 09:42 PM

Sony can't always have own something they didn't create. It wasn't Sony's product initially, they bought the rights after Verant couldn't float the game anymore. Verant produced Kunark, Velious, and most of Luclin I believe, and somewhat had a hand in PoP, but anything after that was solely SOE's direction, and well...

did you even read the wiki entry? I thought the article made it pretty clear

mokfarg

01-03-2015, 09:59 PM

I disagree. Luclin and PoP were well oiled machines compared to Classic. It was probably the Zenith of any game in the world at the time and I think probably the best era of the Original EQ. And Yes, I loved the Beastlord class and AA's also. The graphics in Luclin were over the top compared to Classic. Now I think some of the older character models looked better, Ogre, Troll, but the zones were just beautiful. :)

Well oiled? I quit because the entire game didn't feel like one cohesive world any longer. The game no longer felt like a wonderful fantasy world, rather a mix matched graphics, cobbled together pile of do, with books, PoK, Bazaar, Sci -Fi theme, cats on a moon, ball of crap. It was no longer built as a wonderful immersive world to pull you in, rather built for convenience as a monster killing factory.

86753o9

01-07-2015, 07:27 AM

Well oiled? I quit because the entire game didn't feel like one cohesive world any longer. The game no longer felt like a wonderful fantasy world, rather a mix matched graphics, cobbled together pile of do, with books, PoK, Bazaar, Sci -Fi theme, cats on a moon, ball of crap. It was no longer built as a wonderful immersive world to pull you in, rather built for convenience as a monster killing factory.

Well said.

Decad

01-07-2015, 09:33 PM

Design/Raid issues aside, one of the reasons people promote/put down Luclin and pop was because it powers up the unwanted classes epenis big time while those power classes got their epenis screwed big time.

Mahande

01-07-2015, 10:11 PM

The thing that killed the community aspect of the game was boxing, not POK. POK was just a nice tool for getting around fast without relying on a druid or wizard, you still needed to group with people and interact with them to kill things and gain xp. With the introduction of boxing (Started in Velious btw), EQ started down a slippery slope of becoming a solo game, even at the high end of raiding. If this server were to add luclin under the current IP stipulations, the only thing that would significantly change is that adding the Bazaar would make EC a thing of the past and lets face it, none of us would miss it. Nowhere can you fill your ignore list full of undercutting asshats faster than in EC. I for one welcome it.

Oh and btw, Luclin was complete already when Sony bought EQ at the very least in scope and design, the coding just needed to be finished. The only thing Sony added were the Luclin models for the toons which we all hated.

86753o9

01-08-2015, 03:24 AM

So people left live and came to p1999 to get away from boxing. Riiiight.

Bumamgar

01-08-2015, 10:22 AM

boxing, mercs and instancing... yes :)

Daldaen

01-08-2015, 12:19 PM

boxing, mercs and instancing... yes :)

Defiant armor, shitty itemization, and the way in which lots of content was made useless too quickly were far more contributory to me coming here.

Boxing - Fantastic. Less fantastic with free accounts. But playing a single character in this era is soooo boring. Being a CH cleric in a chain for 10minures isn't the most thrilling thing ever.

Now instead imagine you can play a Rogue, Ranger and Cleric. You are CHing every so often on the cleric, backstabbing on the Rogue and casting spells / kicking / shooting arrows on your ranger. You interact way more with the game and that activity makes playing more fun.

Mercs - Really just a product of low population and too linear of quest-play. This is one of the greatest downfalls of modern EQ. Too often people want to complete a series of quests in a zone. The problem is if you don't start/finish with the same people you end up having to repeat steps you've done or only have half-finished series which yield minimal reward. It's very difficult to find someone needing the same quests/steps as you unless you plan to play with that person.

Instances - Again, fantastic. See any camp dispute or raid environment here as to why. You should have to stare at a wall for 16 hours or sit on a camp for 7 hours to experience certain content. That's dumb. Instances allowed all types of raiders to experience content and it started to become those who are skilled succeed rather than those who are unemployed. Which is a good thing IMO.

Player interaction, blah blah blah. No one wants to interact with me when they request a port. They just don't want to travel 30 minutes across the world.

Sinder

01-22-2015, 05:31 PM

luclin sucked... we are still discovering contents and then OH HEY we are on the moon! sounds like a tales of the Blode episode. also the bazaar sucked.

If you wanna get rid of PoK just make the spires port to PoTraq with a level check. I thought PoP was pretty great and without AA it would make it even harder... aka more fun. the gear would be a pretty huge step from Velious to PoP without the focuses and stat increases O_O.

seems a good way to end the game by killing the Gods of the game

Voland

01-22-2015, 08:49 PM

The original team designing it clearly had goals relating to the interaction between Sanctus Seru and Katta Castellum. However, halfway through making it, that team was dismantled and packaged to designing EQ, and much of what we can see in EQ2's version of Freeport and Qeynos can be seen reflecting what was originally planned for SS and Katta.

This is very interesting info, what is your source?

Voland

01-22-2015, 09:16 PM

Would have to be the "more classic" baz if any :p none of that Omens/DoN revamp

Original bazaar looked cool, but it was Lag Central.. remember the "Hide Traders" button?

planeofdreams

01-22-2015, 09:49 PM

Honestly anything that worked mechanically from Luclin and Pop is on the table for me. PoP is where I stopped playing.

BUT. Personally where I would like to see them add custom content is to add zones and areas that deepen the old world by implementing long rumored game lore. Places like, Caerthiel under Felwithe and a fuller implementation of Cabilis, even Can we find out if there is actually a zone on the other end of orc highway?

I mean, this stuff used to drive me nuts:
"The city is ruled under the iron fist of Emperor Vekin, who resides in a palace located in the center of town. (Oh yeah!?!) Many froglok slaves continue construction there at a constant pace. The palace complex also has a large structure that serves as prison, torture chamber, barracks for the city guard, and pit where froglok slaves are locked up when each shift is exhausted."

A "North Cabilis" with a dungeon crawl through a New Sebilisian palace could be great.

I think that LDoN probably hit on my sentiment, but I don't know if the implementation was something I'd enjoy. Anyone know where I'm coming from?