Circle kiting needs to be nerfed

[hammertime7795]

Or disallowed. Bards make OT unplayable for everyone else. Zone disruption is not allowed by the rules. Taking all the mobs in a particular area is not allowed by the rules how come this is allowed to continue?

[Duncon]

The bards are very reasonable. You just need to beg them for a few mobs to kill. They will leave you scraps if you ask nice.

[mr.miketastic]

Or disallowed. Bards make OT unplayable for everyone else. Zone disruption is not allowed by the rules. Taking all the mobs in a particular area is not allowed by the rules how come this is allowed to continue?

Search is your friend. There have already been threads about this and it's been addressed already. Bard kiting in OT is fine.

[Pint]

The bards are very reasonable. You just need to beg them for a few mobs to kill. They will leave you scraps if you ask nice.

Lol'd but this is p much true

[hammertime7795]

Search is your friend. There have already been threads about this and it's been addressed already. Bard kiting in OT is fine.

No its clearly against the rules and if we keep complaining about it they will do something about it.

[cormag]

shits classic

[Secrets]

shits classic

^ this.

Next I assume you want to remove kiting from druids because it's unfair that warriors can't do the same thing?

[Dillian]

now tbh not all bards are bad. there are a few that think all of zones like OT are theirs. But there are a limited number of zones bards can do this in. No one really cares to group with bards honestly so they are gonna do what they can for exp. You could always try a diffrent zone instead of complaining about one zone where a few bards are. There are plenty of zones for level 30's to 50's

[cormag]

^ this.

Next I assume you want to remove kiting from druids because it's unfair that warriors can't do the same thing?

Nerf quad kiting, necro soloing, mage pets, chardok aoe, warrior defensive, shaker-paging and the rest of the stuff that makes EQ EQ.

[hammertime7795]

Lots of things on this server have been nerfed from classic because they were broken or op. Its an exploit thats why it was nerfed on live. If you read the play nice rules what they are doing is clearly against the rules.

[hammertime7795]

Nerf quad kiting, necro soloing, mage pets, chardok aoe, warrior defensive, shaker-paging and the rest of the stuff that makes EQ EQ.

Its not that they can do it its that it disrupts a zone that people use and need for quests. False equivalencies and things like shaker paging that will never exist on this server are pretty sad arguments.

[Dillian]

could always kill rhinos and cougars. most bards dont touch those

[hammertime7795]

could always kill rhinos and cougars. most bards dont touch those

Does not do any good for the people who need zerkers for faction quests

[Secrets]

Its not that they can do it its that it disrupts a zone that people use and need for quests. False equivalencies and things like shaker paging that will never exist on this server are pretty sad arguments.

A sad argument is being told something is allowed several times by the staff and campaigning for it to be disallowed.
If someone is taking EVERY SINGLE NPC in the zone and is refusing to share, then petition! It's against the play nice policy to do so.

Communicate with the person. Say, "Hey, can you stop kiting all the NPCs in the zone? I have nothing to hunt.", then petition if they said 'no go fuck yourself this zone is mine.'
GMs just can't slap a blanket ban on something like that. That's stupid; if you weren't effected by it you wouldn't be making this topic. Be the bigger man and petition that douche bard if he's like that. But send him a tell first. They HAVE to be reasonable according to the server staff.

Same goes with Chardok AE groups. You're more than entitled to steal their AE mobs provided they aren't tagged, drag them to the side, and kill them. If the AE group kills you on purpose, then you can petition.

Oh, but wait, you won't do that to a chardok AE group. You'll be blacklisted by the server and won't be able to join most guilds. Boo hoo, if it's bothering you that much deal with the social consequences and petition.

[Argh]

Why do people even level in OT or LOIO? They're shitty zones with bad zem and are where bards usually kite.

[sox7d]

Nerf quad kiting, necro soloing, mage pets, chardok aoe, warrior defensive, shaker-paging and the rest of the stuff that makes EQ retarded.

FTFY.

Kind of laughable that someone would equate holding 40+ mobs over 20 minutes to a necro soloing 1 at a time every 1-2 minutes or a druid/wizard killing 4 mobs every 5 minutes.

Anyways, shit's not gonna change, just peel mobs off the assholish bards, wtf are they gonna do about it?

[Danth]

To me, anyway, the frustrating part of watching those Bards ruin zones like Overthere isn't that it happens. That by itself doesn't matter so much; lots of annoying stuff happens on P1999. My largest frustration on this issue is knowing that most the time it happens for nothing because most of those Bards will lose interest and quit by the early/mid 50's.

The minority of folks who stick with it, well, I don't blame 'em. Who wants to spend a lot of time leveling an alt that's probably intended to be used just as a raid resist singer? If you want to talk about "damage" to the server (I quote the word because it's a matter of opinion) then Chardok is a lot worse than any number of Bards running in circles since it directly contributes in a big way to the alt armies of 60's owned by folks on this server. That's not going away, either, so just accept it for what it is and that P1999 isn't quite the same as, well, 1999.

Danth

[sox7d]

To me, anyway, the frustrating part of watching those Bards ruin zones like Overthere isn't that it happens. That by itself doesn't matter so much; lots of annoying stuff happens on P1999. My largest frustration on this issue is knowing that most the time it happens for nothing because most of those Bards will lose interest and quit by the early/mid 50's.

The minority of folks who stick with it, well, I don't blame 'em. Who wants to spend a lot of time leveling an alt that's probably intended to be used just as a raid resist singer? If you want to talk about "damage" to the server (I quote the word because it's a matter of opinion) then Chardok is a lot worse than any number of Bards running in circles since it directly contributes in a big way to the alt armies of 60's owned by folks on this server. That's not going away, either, so just accept it for what it is and that P1999 isn't quite the same as, well, 1999.

Danth

I find it funny that we talk about P1999 in 2009 in 2015 as we talked about live in 1999 in 2005.

[myriverse]

No its clearly against the rules and if we keep complaining about it they will do something about it.
Bards aren't taking anyone's mobs as much as they're delivering them. They won't miss one or two.

But anyway, I think we were long overdue for a new Bard thread. Thanks.

[zanderklocke]

You must be the person who petitioned me today but didn't send me a tell. No one sent me any messages the entire time I was there except a druid who was concerned she goofed me up. I told her to take any tigers off me she wanted. I was contacted by Eunomia a few hours later when I was running off to do the hunter/forager.

I wish you would have contacted me so I didn't disrupt your experience leveling; I would be happy to accommodate both our leveling in the zone. I'm sure we would have worked it out without a petition.

This is from my power leveling thread you can see in my signature:
"Ethics Disclaimer
I will make all efforts to provide a service that is fast and efficient while remaining ethical. All attempts will be made to avoid interrupting other players' regular leveling experiences. I will always work with other players if there is a possibility they may feel interrupted by my power level session, and if a zone is too crowded, I may choose to end the session to ensure the client and other players all have the most positive experience possible. I may choose to end the session or deny service if the client requests I act in an unethical manner."

[hammertime7795]

No I petitioned yesterday because bassman?? or something kept pulling things off me that I had arrowed. Today I just left Ill buy the MQ so that the plat farmers can sell off the plat to pay their rent. Sorry for voicing the opinion that if the rules were followed thing would be smother.

[Bboboo]

How to deal with Bards in OT (or anywhere really).

1) Don't be a bitch
2) Seriously stop being a whiny little bitch
3) Pull mobs off the bard
4) Ask the bard to not pull so much from <your area>
5) Don't level in OT, plenty of other good zones.
6) If you are an enchanter, while the bard is pulling, mass stun his pull and run it to the outpost guards, gate.
7) Only petition if OT is bone dry AND you did step 4, just because you had to wait another 10 seconds to pull a mob or run a little further out doesn't mean you should waste the staffs time or anyone else's time.
8) Bards only pull two of the four major mobs in the zone, take the other half.
9) Again and I can't stress this enough, don't be a bitch.


I might be joking about some of those.

[zanderklocke]

No I petitioned yesterday because bassman?? or something kept pulling things off me that I had arrowed. .

That's no good. People shouldn't be stealing mobs off each other. Sounds more like a player issue than a bard issue.

[Troubled]

Don't trust any bard and don't bother sending them tells. They're all scum. Best way to deal with it is send multiple petitions and berate them in OOC getting others to join in.

[Nazareth73]

Play a bard. I hate the swarm and aoe kiting. Tried bard twice and do not like it.

[rictus204]

They're all scum.

[fastboy21]

most of the bards that actually do this consistently understand that they are potentially breaking the rules and will happily accommodate others in the zone if you talk to them. they are usually doing the kiting for pp, and they have an interest in not doing something that injures their cash cow.

[rsloans84]

just be a dick and loot their corpses and then thank them for contributing to the server. (They may dislike u) :p lol didn't work too well for me

[Dillian]

just be a dick and loot their corpses and then thank them for contributing to the server. (They may dislike u) :p lol didn't work too well for me
lmao. half the time i dont loot on my bard. Unless its wolf meat. gotta make them sammiches

[Skittlez]

I haven't seen a thread like this in a while!

[Reguiy]

Delete this thread please. Weekends and holidays are reserved for "what is the best duo?" and "how can I play with my roommate?" threads. "Nerf bard kiting" threads are weekdays only. And ya, fuck bards.

[Uuruk]

Zander needs to pay his electric bill pls leave him out of this.

[zanderklocke]

Zander needs to pay his electric bill pls leave him out of this.

That's what my parents are for silly.

[Crawdad]

Meh, I wish they'd remove "swarm"/AE kiting just so bards would have to group. Might have been "classic" the same way item recharging was. I know on my server bards didn't start AE kiting until PoP.

Its a shame, Bards are one of The unique defining aspects of EQ, but here they're usually antisocial and/or pissy because everyone complains when they see one in their zone.


Why do people even level in OT or LOIO? They're shitty zones with bad zem and are where bards usually kite.

OT/Loio are great zones for any (lazy) kiting class. Plus, surely to god, people get tired of hitting the same ZEM hotzones every toon. How many times can you run CB->Unrest->MM->CoM anyways?

Communicate with the person. Say, "Hey, can you stop kiting all the NPCs in the zone? I have nothing to hunt.", then petition if they said 'no go fuck yourself this zone is mine.'

I've gotten the "Go fuck yourself I've been here X hours" just as often as the "Sure tag off me."

The problem for me is who the hell wants to wait 20 minutes for a bard to finish a kite Plus respawn time? Aint got time for that.

[SamwiseRed]

Just root him. Oh wait this is blue hehe

[Conscript]

...
This is from my power leveling thread you can see in my signature:
"Ethics Disclaimer
I will make all efforts to provide a service that is fast and efficient while remaining ethical. All attempts will be made to avoid interrupting other players' regular leveling experiences. I will always work with other players if there is a possibility they may feel interrupted by my power level session, and if a zone is too crowded, I may choose to end the session to ensure the client and other players all have the most positive experience possible. I may choose to end the session or deny service if the client requests I act in an unethical manner."

Aren't you the bard who sometimes shows up in Kurn's Tower and sends an announcement?

If yes, then it doesn't bother me because in the end you always give some free power leveling to the random players in the zone.

If no, then it doesn't bother me because I don't level in OT / LOIO anyways.

[Daldaen]

Just root him. Oh wait this is blue hehe

From your PNP:

Causing Experience Loss.

Intentionally causing experience-loss to other players in the PvP environment is illegal in all cases and may result in disciplinary action when witnessed by a P99CSR. This includes things such as intentionally training NPCs. We do understand that there are cases where the experience-loss is unintentional, and no disciplinary action will be taken in those cases.

Wouldn't this be a case of intentionally causing EXP loss? I mean rooting a bard would be guaranteed EXP loss since the goal would be allowing his train to catch up with him?

That being said, does Selos correctly overwrite Root when already active like in classic? Or does Red not have that classic functionality?

[mr.miketastic]

No its clearly against the rules and if we keep complaining about it they will do something about it.

I'd venture to guess if you keep whining and crying about it, people will just label you a crying whiner and advise you to either go somewhere else, or find another emu server to play on.

[Rararboker]

Non-bards lvl in OT?

lol

[Mandalore93]

Time had made you into a soft baby girl! CSR was basically non-existent in classic. Submitted a video to them of being outright killstolen half a dozen times outside of Splitpaw and was told what I'm going to tell you. "Go to another zone. The world is incredibly huge and there are many spots for you to level at."

[mr_jon3s]

Meh, I wish they'd remove "swarm"/AE kiting just so bards would have to group. Might have been "classic" the same way item recharging was. I know on my server bards didn't start AE kiting until PoP.

Most bards hate swarm kiting and would love to group. But when you don't get a group what are you gonna do wait around or head over to OT to do a swarm and get a good chunk of exp. Also its a great way to skip hell levels so when your grouping you might actually see your exp bar move.

As for bards didn't start AE kiting until PoP on your server is just crazy.

[NGHpnotiq]

I had a bard at one point and Swarm kited my ass off in OT. Firstly I never pulled stuff close to the wall and usually kited out in the middle of OT away from groups that pulled to Ramp or other common camp spots. Most Bards are are not too bad about it. Honestly about 90% of the time simply sending them a tell and asking them to not pull from so close to where you are will simply solve the problem.

[webrunner5]

Non-bards lvl in OT?

lol

LoL, yeah, like it is some hot spot for tons of people leveling there. Bards have to do what Bards do somewhere. Might as well be in that God Forsaken place of a zone. :eek:

[coki]

Charm a few of the bards mobs have druid or shm sow them then release!

[myriverse]

Don't trust any bard and don't bother sending them tells. They're all scum. Best way to deal with it is send multiple petitions and berate them in OOC getting others to join in.
Bah. I leveled up in LOIO and never had a bad encounter with a bard.

[Ravager]

OT was unplayable to begin with. What a boring zone.

[Bboboo]

10) Charm Plants/Enchanter Charm + SoW and release.

[Daldaen]

10) Charm Plants/Enchanter Charm + SoW and release.

Bards have a single target snare song that removes any SoW. They also have a single target Dispell song.

Before you get that single target snare song I carried a few pumices on my bard because both the high and low sides of OT have Sarnak shamans that will SoW passing by roaming sarnaks.

[Llodd]

OT and loio hugely popular xp zones back on live. No reason to think otherwise here irregardless of how shit they actually are.

[Lictor]

Lulz at bard kiting entire zones is 'classic'. Just like rampant MQ and item recharges. Omg so Classic I totally remember all those things having a massive effect on the community and economy back in 1999!

[Troubled]

Lulz at bard kiting entire zones is 'classic'. Just like rampant MQ and item recharges. Omg so Classic I totally remember all those things having a massive effect on the community and economy back in 1999!

People talking about whether or not something is classic isn't classic. Nerf this dude.

[Bboboo]

11) Spam Rod of Insidious Glamour (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rod_of_Insidious_Glamour) on the Bard while he is spinning right round.

[webrunner5]

Lulz at bard kiting entire zones is 'classic'. Just like rampant MQ and item recharges. Omg so Classic I totally remember all those things having a massive effect on the community and economy back in 1999!

I would agree. Hardly ANYONE knew shit about the game mechanics back in the beginning. I don't think there were 10 Bards that even knew what Kiting even was. And MQ's were not a sort of big thing until Velious if my memory serves me right. And I don't even remember recharging at all till much later.

It is only because we are stuck in the endless loop of Kunark, and people being a LOT smarter game wise, that we have all this stuff happening on here at all.

Like I, and others have said before, this game will NEVER be "Classic" ever again, because we all know way too much now. Our Virginity was lost a LONG time ago. :eek:

[Daldaen]

I would agree. Hardly ANYONE knew shit about the game mechanics back in the beginning. I don't think there were 10 Bards that even knew what Kiting even was. And MQ's were not a sort of big thing until Velious if my memory serves me right. And I don't even remember recharging at all till much later.

It is only because we are stuck in the endless loop of Kunark, and people being a LOT smarter game wise, that we have all this stuff happening on here at all.

Like I, and others have said before, this game will NEVER be "Classic" ever again, because we all know way too much now. Our Virginity was lost a LONG time ago. :eek:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010210235103/http://eqsongs.com/Songs/COD_kiting.htm

January 2000 Post about how to swarm kite with PBAE songs.

I don't buy your "only 10 bards knew this" nonsense. It was very commonplace for bards to kite 1999-2001. Computers couldn't handle 100 mob kites back then probably, but bards certainly were kiting.

[t3kn34k]

Why do people even level in OT or LOIO? They're shitty zones with bad zem and are where bards usually kite.

wizard or druid quadding bloodgills was amazing exp

[Vagrant9180]

wizard or druid quadding bloodgills was amazing exp

IS still amazing xp! Got from level 46 to 51 doing Bloodgills.

[stifling]

Was tired of reading so forgive me if this has been said. Concerning those who wish to look zerkers for war-braids.. Bards have no need of them. we can charm to get an OT hammer and it takes us 5 minutes to do it. Ask (nicely) to loot the zerker braids and you will meet your faction goal much quicker and easier.

[sox7d]

I would agree. Hardly ANYONE knew shit about the game mechanics back in the beginning. I don't think there were 10 Bards that even knew what Kiting even was. And MQ's were not a sort of big thing until Velious if my memory serves me right. And I don't even remember recharging at all till much later.

It is only because we are stuck in the endless loop of Kunark, and people being a LOT smarter game wise, that we have all this stuff happening on here at all.

Like I, and others have said before, this game will NEVER be "Classic" ever again, because we all know way too much now. Our Virginity was lost a LONG time ago. :eek:

wanna make a new game like eq

[Conky]

shits classic

Really it's not classic nobody had the connection to handle pulling 40+ mobs and not lag out and die in kunark era.

[Dillian]

I would agree. Hardly ANYONE knew shit about the game mechanics back in the beginning. I don't think there were 10 Bards that even knew what Kiting even was. And MQ's were not a sort of big thing until Velious if my memory serves me right. And I don't even remember recharging at all till much later.


I was one of the 10 bards i guess lol

[Dillian]

Really it's not classic nobody had the connection to handle pulling 40+ mobs and not lag out and die in kunark era.
i had a cable connection in 2000 and a computer that was pretty good since i spent an entire months lance corporal pay on it lol.

[Messianic]

All I heard was "I don't know how to communicate with other players legitimately using their abilities"

[Danth]

I also had cable by the time I started EQ, but I'm not sure it would have made much difference on a 100 mob pull. EQ was meant to run on modems of the time. A lot of folks didn't even have 56K (and if you recall, even folks who had 56K rarely to never actually connected at that speed), and I don't know that the host's rate of data output took any advantage of broadband. Some other MMOG's of the time definitely didn't (I know a few online games that still used a 9600-baud or equivalent data rate even into 2000/2001). Even the best connection wouldn't help if the host wasn't sending position updates and such quickly enough.

I don't know for certain either way, but it's something to think about.

Danth

[Dillian]

I also had cable by the time I started EQ, but I'm not sure it would have made much difference on a 100 mob pull. EQ was meant to run on modems of the time. A lot of folks didn't even have 56K (and if you recall, even folks who had 56K rarely to never actually connected at that speed), and I don't know that the host's rate of data output took any advantage of broadband. Some other MMOG's of the time definitely didn't (I know a few online games that still used a 9600-baud or equivalent data rate even into 2000/2001). Even the best connection wouldn't help if the host wasn't sending position updates and such quickly enough.

I don't know for certain either way, but it's something to think about.

Danth
Yah but this is SOE we are talking about. They prolly had a decent connection. I remember kiting and rarely ran into many problems

[Bboboo]

12) AOE Fear the Bards pull.

[rictus204]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25736152/EQ/Gotime/finalfinalfinallll.gif

[Bboboo]

http://i.imgur.com/cTwWqLu.gif

[iruinedyourday]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25736152/EQ/Gotime/finalfinalfinallll.gif

very much worth all the required explaning to the parties invovled afterwords :D

[rictus204]

lol ya Anichek was not pleased at all with me! :cool:

[Jimjam]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25736152/EQ/Gotime/finalfinalfinallll.gif

Did you see all those mobs chasing that poor guy!? You totally saved his ass! Now he should be able to zone safely without training anyone ;).

[Troubled]

Did you see all those mobs chasing that poor guy!? You totally saved his ass! Now he should be able to zone safely without training anyone ;).

That was their initial defense.

[oldhead]

No I petitioned yesterday because bassman?? or something kept pulling things off me that I had arrowed. Today I just left Ill buy the MQ so that the plat farmers can sell off the plat to pay their rent. Sorry for voicing the opinion that if the rules were followed thing would be smother.

I grouped with Bassman in LoIO when he was lvl 20 like a week ago.

Said it was his first character. What level is he now?

[oldhead]

wanna make a new game like eq

:D

[mr.miketastic]

The tears and angst of the anti-kiters tastes like victory. Stop already. There have been rules put in place. If a bard is being a jerk, petition him/her. I swear, the amount of unjustified entitlement on some of you...
I also played a bard on live and never had anyone screech like this about my pulls. Guess what? The bard will likely level up and leave soon, so put away your diaper and act like a big boy and stop your whining.

[Brocode]

you should research about it, multiple threads, and not even once it was against the rules, other thing is having a griefer bard griefing which is complety different from blaming aoe kite.

Bards cant kite all mobs from OT in a safe way, mostly will avoid tiggers and rhinos, meaning if your xping, you can kill those.

Keep in mind that what is important is not the number of mobs, the important is to account XP per Hour and not mobs per Hour, as much they are alike, they are not the same.

[Whirled]

http://www.rantlifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/niceguysfinishlast-badumtstpornstarswithoutmakeup_ed7d74_4675243.jpg

/target bard
/ttell hey man can I get in group?

[BulletCatcher]

So it is spoiled for all new players too? They need to put and end to this crap and not have a "but I thought I wasn't harming anyones gameplay" BS loophole.

For fucks sake you babies, go to another area, or peel a mob or two off the bard. Most times they don't mind as they understand th effects of their bard kiting.

You know what fuck it, i want P99 to be that way I want it to be. So all you devs and admin types need to stop working toward the betterment of the community as a hole and worry about the insignificant amount of time that I will spend in OT leveling while... so mother fucking... bard comes by to also level... fuck him. They should have to group... you know what also.... fuck it.... Killing treants around level 25 for evil races is bullshit. Im a human druid. I should be able to kill them without having my game effected and ruining faction. So devs.. when you fix the tiny little problem of bards kiting in OT, please make the game better for me.

kk thanks.

TLDR: fucking cry babies.

[Raev]

Or disallowed. Bards make OT unplayable for everyone else. Zone disruption is not allowed by the rules. Taking all the mobs in a particular area is not allowed by the rules how come this is allowed to continue?

PBAOE spells should have a chance to LD your character if you cast on more than 30-40 targets. It's pretty classic as I have pointed out before - no one was casting these spells on 150 mobs like they do on P1999 because their internet connections/PCs couldn't handle it.

[Neno]

you couldnt raid with like more than 4-5 groups without ppl going ld constantly

so

[sulious]

Wow , people are still leveling on this server?

[Brocode]

PBAOE spells should have a chance to LD your character if you cast on more than 30-40 targets. It's pretty classic as I have pointed out before - no one was casting these spells on 150 mobs like they do on P1999 because their internet connections/PCs couldn't handle it.

you dont need the server to lower your internet connection capability, turn on torrent and start kiting, and be happy classic.

[maahes]

Lulz at bard kiting entire zones is 'classic'. Just like rampant MQ and item recharges. Omg so Classic I totally remember all those things having a massive effect on the community and economy back in 1999!

I love these posts. Reminds me of the lazy jobless who participated in "occupy wallstreet". If you don't rememeber this stuff from classic, you were clearly not part of the 1%.

[oldhead]

Wow , people are still leveling on this server?

What you thought raids were end game? Leveling alts is end game bro.

[webrunner5]

For fucks sake you babies, go to another area, or peel a mob or two off the bard. Most times they don't mind as they understand th effects of their bard kiting.

You know what fuck it, i want P99 to be that way I want it to be. So all you devs and admin types need to stop working toward the betterment of the community as a hole and worry about the insignificant amount of time that I will spend in OT leveling while... so mother fucking... bard comes by to also level... fuck him. They should have to group... you know what also.... fuck it.... Killing treants around level 25 for evil races is bullshit. Im a human druid. I should be able to kill them without having my game effected and ruining faction. So devs.. when you fix the tiny little problem of bards kiting in OT, please make the game better for me.

kk thanks.

TLDR: fucking cry babies.

Wow, could not have said it better. :D

Oh and by the way I was wrong about 10 Bards knowing about Kiting. There were 11. Get real. it is like 11 people on here that even doing it now. How many Bards do you think were even playing in the original Kunark, 2 million people?? And most were women, and I really doubt many women throw people under the bus like men do.

Velious came out in December 6th 2000. I really doubt many Bards were even in Kunark zones by then. The original EQ came out March 16th of 1999. SO in less than 1 1/2 years every Bard on EQ was kiting, sure, yeah, sure.

[fishingme]

If any bards were aoe kiting in classic, then they didnt have many mobs at all (I never saw any bards aoe kiting and i spent a fair amount of time in OT on live). Velious and classic UI just take too much frame rates. I recently did an aoe kite with everything turned off except the UI, and 40 mobs just about lagged me to death.

[Ravager]

Devs should just throttle server side bandwidth to 28k per client.

[Messianic]

If any bards were aoe kiting in classic, then they didnt have many mobs at all (I never saw any bards aoe kiting and i spent a fair amount of time in OT on live). Velious and classic UI just take too much frame rates. I recently did an aoe kite with everything turned off except the UI, and 40 mobs just about lagged me to death.

Just like information had not reached a saturation level in every other aspect of EQ, it was not as widely known that you could use bard charm to do massive swarm kites in classic. A bunch of people did know how to do it and would kill entire zones worth of mobs. An RL friend of mine was a bard through PoP and was doing it as early as Kunark/Velious, and he wasn't even one of the first elite bards.

So just because you didn't see it in classic doesn't mean it wasn't possible or didn't happen. Lots of things that didn't happen that much in classic because of a lack of knowledge or a lack of exposure to the game happen very regularly here.

And I've personally kited 50+ mobs. Didn't lag my crap laptop, so it doesn't lag any user with a decent desktop with the right settings.

[fishingme]

Just like information had not reached a saturation level in every other aspect of EQ, it was not as widely known that you could use bard charm to do massive swarm kites in classic. A bunch of people did know how to do it and would kill entire zones worth of mobs. An RL friend of mine was a bard through PoP and was doing it as early as Kunark/Velious, and he wasn't even one of the first elite bards.

So just because you didn't see it in classic doesn't mean it wasn't possible or didn't happen. Lots of things that didn't happen that much in classic because of a lack of knowledge or a lack of exposure to the game happen very regularly here.

And I've personally kited 50+ mobs. Didn't lag my crap laptop, so it doesn't lag any user with a decent desktop with the right settings.

Swarming with a charm pet is different than aoe kiting. Um, okay, I wouldn't assume my desktop is crap but okay... Like I said though, you were restricted to what UI was out during the time of classic/kunark/velious Along with restricted to what settings you could change on your UI. Go back and do a 50+ mob kite with velious UI, with the non-LED mouse.

[Dillian]

Devs should just throttle server side bandwidth to 28k per client.

Thats still enough to kite with.

[Jimjam]

You can play eq with really low band width, you don't need a vast quantity of information to be transferred between you and the server, you just need what little is transferred to be done quickly.

[Messianic]

Swarming with a charm pet is different than aoe kiting. Um, okay, I wouldn't assume my desktop is crap but okay... Like I said though, you were restricted to what UI was out during the time of classic/kunark/velious Along with restricted to what settings you could change on your UI. Go back and do a 50+ mob kite with velious UI, with the non-LED mouse.

Functionally they are the same - whereas true swarm kiting is not possible on this server, circle kiting is and functionally does the same thing.

I've done it with the velious ui (ie no bandolier or external inventory window). Ball mice were only marginally worse than opticals (barely so with a pad), the main thing was they required consistent cleaning.

I don't assume your desktop is bad, but my laptop is 6 years old and didn't have problems. Dunno what to tell you.

[indiscriminate_hater]

did the movement key tapping method with my bard, no mouse needed except to swap instruments

[webrunner5]

Thats still enough to kite with.

Not a whole damn zone of mobs like some are saying. Yo must have had the BEST internet connection in the whole world to do lots of mobs back then. Not counting your mom or dad would have thrown you under the bus dialing a phone number when you were on like a lot of people did back in the day.. :eek:

Ok son, I think tying up the damn phone for like 13 hours straight is probably long enough. :o Not counting AoL dropped you about every 45 minutes whether you did something or not.

[fishingme]

Functionally they are the same - whereas true swarm kiting is not possible on this server, circle kiting is and functionally does the same thing.

I've done it with the velious ui (ie no bandolier or external inventory window). Ball mice were only marginally worse than opticals (barely so with a pad), the main thing was they required consistent cleaning.

I don't assume your desktop is bad, but my laptop is 6 years old and didn't have problems. Dunno what to tell you.

Done with this thread if you honestly believe the bolded, you're an idiot.

[kaev]

Done with this thread if you honestly believe the bolded, you're an idiot.

Clearly you never had a decent mouse back in the day, or if you did you used it on a shit surface. Good mechanical mice existed, as did mouse pads that helped get best performance out of them.

[Bboboo]

14?) Send the Bard some packets.

http://i.imgur.com/443kytk.gif

[Aksiom2k]

wow 10 pages. i wouldnt worry about bards that level by aoe kiting. they are bad and will quit EQ once they get their epic. GG

[webrunner5]

Hell the "Blue Screen of Death" was to me a bigger problem than Bards back then lol. :eek:

Window 98 and Windows XP were about as reliable as a woman's period. :D

[Messianic]

Done with this thread if you honestly believe the bolded, you're an idiot.

Clearly you never had a decent mouse back in the day, or if you did you used it on a shit surface. Good mechanical mice existed, as did mouse pads that helped get best performance out of them.

^ Yep. Sorry you feel the need to call me an idiot because you're ignorant.

[captnamazing]

ask the bard to not pull from your neck of the woods

[Crawdad]

Can't believe this is 11 pages...

If Bard AE kiting were "a thing" back on live, you would've seen at least Some people complaining about it on Sony forums. If someone can find them I'd Love to read it, but I don't ever remember reading a AE kite guide on the Concert Hall backintheday. Swarm Kiting was very popular, so was Chant, fear and (ugh) even Bellow kiting at low levels, but AE kiting isn't "classic" like other forms of kiting.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010210...COD_kiting.htm

January 2000 Post about how to swarm kite with PBAE songs.

I don't buy your "only 10 bards knew this" nonsense. It was very commonplace for bards to kite 1999-2001. Computers couldn't handle 100 mob kites back then probably, but bards certainly were kiting.

Link says:
"Using this technique, I can easily kite several yellow mobs simultaneously. Also, I've made a fortune kiting 3, 4, or 5 wisps at a clip and then selling the lightstones."
" If you get too close and one red mob stuns you, having his 2 or 3 red buddies pounding"

Your source is from a level 17 bard AE kiting 3-5 will-o-wisps. Is this all we have to support AE kiting? There is a Huge difference in kiting 3-5 wisps around versus 50-100, both technically and logistically. He doesn't even have the 18 AE song yet, which is when you can actually/realistically start AE kiting like its done on p99.

People didn't take risks on Live like they do here. OT/Loio were Very Popular during Live, and everyone would've had QQ threads if stuff like this happened with regularity. Like I said, I remember seeing other bards AE kite during PoP for Exp/plat, and and I'm sure there were some people who knew about it before, but to suggest that it was "Classic" like other kinds of kiting is crazytalk to me. There's a huge difference in AE kiting a few greens for money and AE kiting the entire OT to PL a_TMO_alt04.

Like I said, I'd love to see some old threads about this topic, circa 2000-2002, even. I'll eat my hat for a Concert Hall WayBackMachine post.


Just to clarify: Classic Mechanics vs Classic Gameplay, 15 year old game, Emergent gameplay, qq. I don't want AE kiting removed, just don't be a douche. Its not just about you killing every mob in the zone, its the taking half an hour to wrangle them up/DoT them down/wait for respawn that blows.

Also take bards into your group, they're super cool dog.

[Altereagle]

Have you ever tried kiting as a bard?

You should! You only need to be level 2 to try. And it's just one of the many ways you can enjoy this great game.

It takes patience, but every class has their own way of playing.

I love this ancient debate that has never and will never resolve itself like all threads that lead off with "nerf X Y or Z" in the title.

Relax and play the game dude.

And if I hear you talking bout' me on this forum again we will have to settle this like men in the arena!

Bassman

[coki]

Functionally they are the same - whereas true swarm kiting is not possible on this server, circle kiting is and functionally does the same thing.

I've done it with the velious ui (ie no bandolier or external inventory window). Ball mice were only marginally worse than opticals (barely so with a pad), the main thing was they required consistent cleaning.

I don't assume your desktop is bad, but my laptop is 6 years old and didn't have problems. Dunno what to tell you.

that is simply not true at all about ball mice being worse then optical, specially back then, you can ask any oldschool FPS pro

[Jaleth]

FTFY.

Kind of laughable that someone would equate holding 40+ mobs over 20 minutes to a necro soloing 1 at a time every 1-2 minutes or a druid/wizard killing 4 mobs every 5 minutes.

Anyways, shit's not gonna change, just peel mobs off the assholish bards, wtf are they gonna do about it?

This.

If I'm in the OT with my wizard and can't find a single mob anywhere in sight, I just go towards the middle of the zone. When I see a bard pulling 20+ mobs across the zone with nothing left for pickings, I just Staff of Temperate Flux the fuck out of that swarm, and pull off 4 mobs of my choosing.

[Biaxil]

play on red, kill bard, problem solved.

[webrunner5]

play on red, kill bard, problem solved.

Heh, that DOES happen on there. And lots of loot to boot. :)

[Priceline]

Didn't read much of thread other then this page..

Its not classic, but its also not going away, deal with it. I know its not classic as I played a bard on live. Bards were a rare class to see on the nameless, probably more shadowknights and paladins running around. We all knew each other and talked regularly.

This AoE kiting business wasn't a thing back in kunark/velious. What was a thing? Swarm/fear/chant kiting when solo.

Its not going away, sux bards gonna aoe kite, good bards gonna group.

No more pages, only dreams.

[Jauna]

Wasnt bards AoE/DoT kiting nerfed mid-kunark? I remember this getting nerfed hard way back when and is still in effect today where moving mobs dont take bard DoT damage

[Priceline]

Wasnt bards AoE/DoT kiting nerfed mid-kunark? I remember this getting nerfed hard way back when and is still in effect today where moving mobs dont take bard DoT damage

Never used the aoe dots but the single target chant line worked while the mobs were moving. I did that a lot while recovering from back to back swarm kites, that 1 mana/tick bliss

[Crawdad]

Wasnt bards AoE/DoT kiting nerfed mid-kunark? I remember this getting nerfed hard way back when and is still in effect today where moving mobs dont take bard DoT damage

They nerfed moving DoT damage during Kunark, but it effected everybody the same; 66% for moving, 100% for feared/rooted. Bard AE kiting was nerfed in 2004, no idea what expansion though.

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/bard-swarm-kiting-nerf.97320/
ARCHIVED-inque_adu_vz, Sep 3, 2004
Brenlo speaks at EQDiva regarding the nerfing of Swarm-Kiting abilities in an upcoming Live patch:

Howdy folks,

This will indeed be a change that makes it to the Live servers, during our next scheduled update on September 14th.

We feel that the current implimentation of AE kiting gave bards an unfair advantage in experience gain. It is our opinion that the changes currently on test will resolve this issue, while retaining both the Bards solo abilities and raid utility.

Sorry folks but no more kiting 20 mobs at a time.

Here's the actual patch from September 14, 2004:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2004-2.html
- Bard PBAoE spells will no longer damage targets that are moving,
however any other spell effects from the PBAoE spell will still be
applied to the targets as usual.

If you keep reading...
They fix something that 4 bards per server total do, but are not touching the absolute unadulterated hacking that goes on regularly.
ARCHIVED-Astrall-TZ, Sep 9, 2004
Not classic but I giggled.

Just to be fair, I wanted to find the oldest post I could for AOE/PBAE/AE Kiting.
http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-251.html

Tilien Venator 07-24-2003, 07:06 PM
Seen bards Swarming 25-30 mobs in Fire, getting 6aap per kite. Was sick seeing him calling out ding every couple of ticks.

...

kineada 07-25-2003, 12:22 PM
We used to have low AA knights or clerics group with our bards during off hours and PL them. Our bards laugh at us when we tout off obout getting an AA every 30mins grouping at first castle.

Of course, this was nerfed. Now, bards can only kite 10 mobs at a time. Which roughly equates to 3 AA's every 30mins in PoFire. None of our bards do this anymore by the bye. I think after the novelty wore off, they went back to drinking heavily while singing some ditty about Fennin Ro.
PoFire AE kiting was what I was referring to on page ~3. Sounds like it was nerfed before Sept 2004 to limit number of mobs? Still not classic, but I still don't see any tangible proof that more than a handful would AE kite on Live. On the plus side, here's some PL proof...in PoP.

Soo I kept digging, and found in this druid PBAE Guide:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030518084339/http://pub149.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovefrm18.showMessage?topicID=88.topic
ordieth117 (4/30/02 10:29 pm)
PBAE kiting Bards have been doing this for a while. It's tough. The timing has to be -exact-, that's for sure, and we tend to do it on unsnared mobs (no long lasting snare). I have tried on greens in EJ, and I get pretty beat up doing it, but it sure is fun.
So at least as far back as 2002/Luclin, but we still need a better answer for what "for a while" is. Again I get the vibe these bards are kiting greens/farming with AE kiting, not Exping.

Also, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I find it hard to believe Thott wouldn't have written about AE kiting if it were popular. Seems like it would've made a fun graph.
http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/powercurves.php

Anyways, I'll keep looking since I'd rather do this than work, though the crowd's gone.

[citizen1080]

Too lazy to read 12 pages on this dead horse of a discussion. So this could have very well been said already....But why would you choose to level in OT if you're NOT a bard/druid? Seriously, there are many better zones for xp/loot/looks/whatever. Unless you are farming faction for your hammer and bards are turkin ur merbs. I have no sympathy for you.

[Rekrul]

Too lazy to read 12 pages on this dead horse of a discussion. So this could have very well been said already....But why would you choose to level in OT if you're NOT a bard/druid? Seriously, there are many better zones for xp/loot/looks/whatever. Unless you are farming faction for your hammer and bards are turkin ur merbs. I have no sympathy for you.

Because the game isnt about efficiency for everyone and different people enjoy different shit, it doesnt matter if there are better zones. I'm definitely not saying bard kiting should be nerfed, i just think your attitude about it is stupid.

[kcsdman]

There are 10+ other zones to level in that are better than OT for pure leveling. If someone really wants to level ASAP, just go somewhere else. This is the dumbest argument, and I don't even play a bard/druid/anyone else who gives a shit about OT

[Dillian]

was nerfed during pop i think or shortly after. Long live classic!!!!

[myriverse]

Because the game isnt about efficiency for everyone and different people enjoy different shit, it doesnt matter if there are better zones. I'm definitely not saying bard kiting should be nerfed, i just think your attitude about it is stupid.
I like OT for the statuary.

[Jimjam]

was nerfed during pop i think or shortly after. Long live classic!!!!

AOE kiting was a problem in Dulak's harbour, so surely it made it at least in to LoY?

[Thatt]

The problem isn't that the bards are taking all the mobs, it's that they regularly kill people. You're fighting a tiger, bard runs by with a thousand tigers- just close enough to pass that social aggro on to you, then bard dies, and a thousand tigers make a bee line for you. I haven't seen the problem on red yet because the population is low, but I've been killed in that manner on blue many times.. technically it's training.

And saying "who cares, overthere is a stupid place to level" is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

[mr.miketastic]

The problem isn't that the bards are taking all the mobs, it's that they regularly kill people. You're fighting a tiger, bard runs by with a thousand tigers- just close enough to pass that social aggro on to you, then bard dies, and a thousand tigers make a bee line for you. I haven't seen the problem on red yet because the population is low, but I've been killed in that manner on blue many times.. technically it's training.

And saying "who cares, overthere is a stupid place to level" is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

Technically, it's you not being smart and moving.

[Thatt]

Technically, it's you not being smart and moving.

Then technically training is fine.. you should just get out of the way when you get trained. Also, there's no more murder!! Your stupid ass should have gotten out of the way when the bullet was fired at you!

[zanderklocke]

You're fighting a tiger, bard runs by with a thousand tigers- just close enough to pass that social aggro on to you, then bard dies, and a thousand tigers make a bee line for you.

I could be wrong, but I don't think social aggro works like that unless you were sitting. You get added to the mob's hate list if you are sitting, fighting a similar faction mob (tiger), or buff the bard. Otherwise you shouldn't get social aggro.

My guild uses these mechanics to run to certain parts of some dungeons. The monk runs ahead, gets aggro, and trains the mobs while other people run right through the mobs, but they gain no aggro since the monk has aggro. The monk then flops, and the other players have gotten where they need to be past mobs without any aggro on them.

[Thatt]

I could be wrong, but I don't think social aggro works like that unless you were sitting. You get added to the mob's hate list if you are sitting, fighting a similar faction mob (tiger), or buff the bard. Otherwise you shouldn't get social aggro.

My guild uses these mechanics to run to certain parts of some dungeons. The monk runs ahead, gets aggro, and trains the mobs while other people run right through the mobs, but they gain no aggro since the monk has aggro. The monk then flops, and the other players have gotten where they need to be past mobs without any aggro on them.

In my example, I said I was fighting a similar faction mob, the tiger.

[zanderklocke]

In my example, I said I was fighting a similar faction mob, the tiger.

Ah yes, I did not read correctly.

[Orruar]

The problem isn't that the bards are taking all the mobs, it's that they regularly kill people. You're fighting a tiger, bard runs by with a thousand tigers- just close enough to pass that social aggro on to you, then bard dies, and a thousand tigers make a bee line for you. I haven't seen the problem on red yet because the population is low, but I've been killed in that manner on blue many times.. technically it's training.

And saying "who cares, overthere is a stupid place to level" is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

Training is against the rules. Why would they consider adding a new rule if the problem is already covered by an existing rule? Only lawyers and politicians engage in this kind of behavior.

[Thatt]

Training is against the rules. Why would they consider adding a new rule if the problem is already covered by an existing rule? Only lawyers and politicians engage in this kind of behavior.

I didn't read this whole thread, frankly I don't care enough, but based on the title "circle kiting needs to be nerfed" I thought it was a discussion about nerfing bards ability to train people in this manner on the scale that they do- not a discussion about making it against the rules to do so.

[myriverse]

The complaint is not about training at all. It's just about getting mobs. The OP was crying because there aren't enough mobs for him, even though there really are.

If it were just a training issue, there would be nothing new to add. If a bard trains you, it's not really their ability to kite that's the problem.

[Skinned]

It sucks really really bad but not a nerfing matter. It is more of an indirect griefing (sp?) than anything.

[Shatford]

Bard's, if engaging in mass-pulling, should be courteous enough to do it in a manner that has the least negative effect on others. They shouldn't have to be sent a tell--people using bard AE-kiting should anticipate a negative reaction if not leaving enough mobs for others to fight. Saying "oh just peel the mobs off my train" is a forcing others to adopt to the bards' strategy and timing rather than their own. If you have trouble understanding why people might get upset over these things, well it probably means you're a selfish dick. It's not hard to be courteous to people in this game and anticipate when you're going to be negatively affecting someone's game experience. "No really, I thought people would be ok with logging in, sitting down and watching me train the zone around. They should just enjoy how awesome I am." Go kill yourself.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Bard's, if engaging in mass-pulling, should be courteous enough to do it in a manner that has the least negative effect on others. They shouldn't have to be sent a tell--people using bard AE-kiting should anticipate a negative reaction if not leaving enough mobs for others to fight. Saying "oh just peel the mobs off my train" is a forcing others to adopt to the bards' strategy and timing rather than their own. If you have trouble understanding why people might get upset over these things, well it probably means you're a selfish dick. It's not hard to be courteous to people in this game and anticipate when you're going to be negatively affecting someone's game experience. "No really, I thought people would be ok with logging in, sitting down and watching me train the zone around. They should just enjoy how awesome I am." Go kill yourself.

bards are pretty awesome doh

[Dizey]

You do realize that what you're saying is that bards should have to adjust what they are doing to accommodate others, but those same people shouldn't have to communicate, compromise, or adjust to accommodate the bards in order to resolve the situation.

Yes, bards should be courteous to groups/players that they observe in the zone, and they should make an effort to leave mobs up in their vicinities, but they can't see or anticipate everything/everyone, so communication is important. If you can't be bothered to take a moment and communicate with the bard in question in order to reasonably resolve your grievance, then that's on you, not the bard.

[Bristlebard]

So far leveling my bard 1-26, AEing in WC, NK, EK, SK, OT, and FV, I've never seen anyone complain about bards, even when there were 2-3 in the zone at a time. I have seen one bard inviting others to leech xp off of an AE pull though.

Forum drama seems to be greatly overstating the "problem" with bards AEing ingame.

[indiscriminate_hater]

So far leveling my bard 1-26, AEing in WC, NK, EK, SK, OT, and FV, I've never seen anyone complain about bards, even when there were 2-3 in the zone at a time. I have seen one bard inviting others to leech xp off of an AE pull though.

Forum drama seems to be greatly overstating the "problem" with bards AEing ingame.

Most of the drama happens in overthere. This is where you can come across (1) bards who are truly just assholes and (2) other people who are generally bad at the game and jealous of bard kiting. The first group tends to leave OT pretty quickly but the second will stick around for several months while they slog through the thirties (read: bad at the game)

Distance yourself from no. 1 and ignore the inevitable accusations from no. 2

[Ezalor]

Because the game isnt about efficiency for everyone and different people enjoy different shit, it doesnt matter if there are better zones. I'm definitely not saying bard kiting should be nerfed, i just think your attitude about it is stupid.

You have the right to make the conscious decision to travel to Bard zone to XP knowing full well that Bards will be AE kiting everything.

We have the right to call you an idiot for doing so.

[Feathers]

So you swarm kite a Bard to 60 in two days, then what? I think most people swarm kite just to see the xp bar fly, not because they need a 60 bard.

[Ezalor]

So you swarm kite a Bard to 60 in two days, then what? I think most people swarm kite just to see the xp bar fly, not because they need a 60 bard.

99% of them don't get to 60. They stop leveling when OT goes green con, and then reroll when they realize they don't even enjoy Bards.

Go to EC on any given evening and you'll see one or two naked level-50-something Bards selling all their gear.

[Daldaen]

So you swarm kite a Bard to 60 in two days, then what? I think most people swarm kite just to see the xp bar fly, not because they need a 60 bard.

In fairness grouping on a bard in a dungeon can be pretty lame. Especially when the group doesn't want you to pull or CC.

Regen/Mana song
Haste song
DS song
Slow/Snare song
anddd repeat
for 6 hour grind group
to get 10% of a level

Or swarm kite Burning Woods and get a full level or two in that time.

[zanderklocke]

In fairness grouping on a bard in a dungeon can be pretty lame. Especially when the group doesn't want you to pull or CC.

Regen/Mana song
Haste song
DS song
Slow/Snare song
anddd repeat
for 6 hour grind group
to get 10% of a level

Or swarm kite Burning Woods and get a full level or two in that time.

That's why you gotta show that you're better at pulling than the monks you're with.

[Jontheripper]

How about we remove the pet xp nerf, i think its bullshit mages have to kill their pet every mob just to get full xp. You cant tell me its because they'll level up too quickly when bards are killing 100 mobs at a time.

[Bristlebard]

In fairness grouping on a bard in a dungeon can be pretty lame. Especially when the group doesn't want you to pull or CC.

Regen/Mana song
Haste song
DS song
Slow/Snare song
anddd repeat
for 6 hour grind group
to get 10% of a level

Or swarm kite Burning Woods and get a full level or two in that time.

I had intentions of playing my bard in groups to level, but then looking at bard songs it seemed like I hardly had any of the tools groups want from a bard until almost 30, which is the point bards enter the golden levels for AEing. And since I don't buy into the "the game is over one you're done leveling" crap, the 50s will take a long time for a bard whether AEing or grouping, and I want to get to get to a point I'll be able to visit the planes and feel pretty "complete" as a class quickly... AE it is!

23+ has sucked (relatively speaking) IMO. SK is busy and huge and has a number of unkiteable mobs. OT is too low or too high. LOIO seemed like an option but meh. And killing red con's in FV has been a fairly harrowing experience. I'm excited to be at a point I think I can do drolvargs for a few levels now though until hitting OT to 46+ now :)

Even in OT though. Bards aren't ever pulling rhinos or caster sarnaks, they rarely pull tigers or other sarnaks. That laces quite a few mobs for the fearkiters and couple groups in zone it seems.

[luno]

I AE kited to 43 without much incident. I've also done a fair amount of grouping too, and maxed out all my weapon skills. Starting to get burnt out on the game though, as I only have one other friend to play with.

Generally, I've made the offer to non-kiters that they can just camp next to where I'm pulling and take mobs off me as they need them. If they're really upset for whatever reason, I'll offer to group with them for a pull or two, which makes everyone happy.

At least, in my experience the problems people like to complain about on these threads are generally caused by neckbeard power levelers, who monopolize as many mobs as possible. They generally get real defensive if you ask them to share because they're trying to maintain their reputation among their group of neckbeard alt customers.

People complain about easy mode on modern MMO's, then they turn around and do shit like RMT and hire dudes to power level them. What everyone really wants is to be better than their peers. The whole enterprise more about ego than fun.

Anyways, I don't think power levelers should be banned. Even though some annoy the shit out of me, I happen to think player created services like dial-a-port or power leveling are a great example of emergent game play in EQ.

[golten]

my issue comes when there are 5 mobs in a camp... say the HGs in rathe mountains, and 3 people camping them, then a bard runs in and starts steeling mobs and quad kiting everything. poor unsow'd melee cant keep up. i just watch him out run me to spawns.

[zanderklocke]

^ Bard quad kiting hill giants? Is this a thing?

[firesyde424]

Understand, before you read my wall of text, assuming you read it, is that for me, the day swarm kiting was nerfed, was the 2nd worst day in EQ for me. The day they nerfed AoE spells and songs so that the mobs had to be standing still for them to be affected, was the worst day in EQ for me. I think that Sony didn't really know how to balance bards.

Swarm kiting is a lot of fun but it can get monotonous at times. Something like the the final PoAir fight. Kiting the adds can be thrilling at first until you realize that you are only kiting the adds so some pervy gnome in plate armor can look at Xegony's boobs for a half hour.


The problem is that bards were never well accepted in groups. Being a jack of all trades is both a blessing and a curse. You can fill in for most roles, but if one of the classes who specialize in that role are available, most group leaders don't see the point in inviting a bard.

Top that off with an absolute mess of people who started playing bards because they could swarm kite but never took the time to learn the nuance of the class. Most of you probably have seen or grouped with someone like this. They know how to twist... maybe, they know that clerics like mana song, and they know that bards can hit things with "swords n stuff." As a result, bards don't have the most pristine of reputations.

Whatever the reason, bards usually have a hard time getting groups. So, we have to make up the difference ourselves. Does that mean bards should monopolize an entire zone? No, but I think it's blatant hypocrisy to cry nerf over that when other classes can effectively monopolize just as easily, if not on quite the same scale.

Unless I miss my guess, monopolizing entire areas like that is covered under the "play nice" rules. May I suggest prosecuting this under that pretense rather than crying nerf.

[Duckwalk]

lol at the retards complaining about at most 2-3 zones when there are literally 4-5 other options for that lvl range which provide better ZEM, loot and are less remote.

[Rhambuk]

Hoping this pushes people into less used zones/dungeons. It's not going away and I leveled about 7 Characters in classic in OT and 4 in p99 in OT, simply because thats where groups are.

Would love to do some under used dungeons even trying to set up groups for them is hard people would rather sit in OT and complain about the bards than go elsewhere.


P.S. It is bs though..

[Duckwalk]

It's as much BS as some classes having certain abilities that other don't which lets them do specific unique things.

If it was possible to AE kite in every zone or in the zones with best exp/loot or if it prevented players from accessing unique content that would be one thing.

However as bards are very restricted in the mobs and zones they can use this tactic on, the fact that the zone are generally out of the way shit holes with out redeeming experience modifiers or loot and the fact that there are many other options, make this a complete nonissue attracting only the laziest and worst players.

[Skinned]

When I'm on my wizzy I don't mind bards too much. I just temp flux enough of their mobs off the swarm to do a quad and wait or em to come around again. If they petition they really have no legs to stand on. Most I've ever gotten is the silent treatment for this. They probably hardly notice me.

[kaev]

The problem is that bards were never well accepted in groups. Being a jack of all trades is both a blessing and a curse. You can fill in for most roles, but if one of the classes who specialize in that role are available, most group leaders don't see the point in inviting a bard.


A skilled Bard is an amazing force multiplier when you're in a dungeon crawling to a named or breaking a difficult camp. A Bard who is on top of his game, a Bard who not only knows what his songs do but also knows in detail how his songs interact with spells and is able to quickly work out tactics with the other casters in the group, a Bard who can pull so well that the Monk gets as angsty as a Paladin about how he's "useless", a Bard who can CC without being flattened the instant one tiny thing goes wrong, a Bard like that is worth his weight in fungi tunics.

Takes practice tho, you don't learn any of that AE kiting. When the 60 Bard and the 60 Ranger in your group are discovering for the first time that Bard slow prevents Druid/Ranger snare from landing you'd best have a charged WC cap ready, just in case.

[Zombiehasslehoff]

Takes practice tho, you don't learn any of that AE kiting. When the 60 Bard and the 60 Ranger in your group are discovering for the first time that Bard slow prevents Druid/Ranger snare from landing you'd best have a charged WC cap ready, just in case.

Bard slow is also a snare that is overwritten by druid/Ranger snare, unless the bard was using AoE slow. If they were using that your in for a bad time.

[Skinned]

A skilled Bard is an amazing force multiplier when you're in a dungeon crawling to a named or breaking a difficult camp. A Bard who is on top of his game, a Bard who not only knows what his songs do but also knows in detail how his songs interact with spells and is able to quickly work out tactics with the other casters in the group, a Bard who can pull so well that the Monk gets as angsty as a Paladin about how he's "useless", a Bard who can CC without being flattened the instant one tiny thing goes wrong, a Bard like that is worth his weight in fungi tunics.

Takes practice tho, you don't learn any of that AE kiting. When the 60 Bard and the 60 Ranger in your group are discovering for the first time that Bard slow prevents Druid/Ranger snare from landing you'd best have a charged WC cap ready, just in case.

Well put. A well played bard is worth a stack of fungi tunics. Often it takes grouping with a good one to remind how good the class can be, as there are just so many baddies out there. But that holds true with every class.

[kaev]

Bard slow is also a snare that is overwritten by druid/Ranger snare, unless the bard was using AoE slow. If they were using that your in for a bad time.

Ah, I misremembered the conflict going the other way, been a while. Also I don't play a Bard, I just love grouping with a good one when the opportunity arises.


I'd happily trade out a bad Bard for an SK in a group that already had Warrior & Paladin or a Druid in a group that already had Shaman & Cleric tho, please don't wait until you're in your 50s to practice grouping your Bard.

[zanderklocke]

Bards are better pullers than monks in some situations.

[citizen1080]

Bards are better pullers than monks in some situations.

Come Pop they were the best by far. Fading memories so OP lol

[Eliseus]

Nerf quad kiting, necro soloing, mage pets, chardok aoe, warrior defensive, shaker-paging and the rest of the stuff that makes EQ EQ.

Late response, but, boxing is something that makes EQ EQ and it's banned. Just saying.

[Rararboker]

Boxing does not make EQ, EQ.

[Eliseus]

Boxing does not make EQ, EQ.

WTF, more people would consider post the era project 1999 is to be EQ, than not, and boxing became quite common in many instances. When I think of any game having multiple instances of the game open, it has always been EQ.

[Jontheripper]

WTF, more people would consider post the era project 1999 is to be EQ, than not, and boxing became quite common in many instances. When I think of any game having multiple instances of the game open, it has always been EQ.

Boxing would kill this server. If you wanna box, go play live.

[Mentathiel]

Late response, but, boxing is something that makes EQ EQ and it's banned. Just saying.
Here's a thought; P1999 has one of the strongest populations at any time of day and does not allow boxing, to the point where two people on the same LAN have to get special dispensation. On blue, you can usually find a group quite easily, you will meet people and there will always be a few vendors in EC hawking their wares.

Why would they allow boxing? Boxing is for under-populated servers and sad gits who don't have the social skills to find a pick-up group.

[Eliseus]

Here's a thought; P1999 has one of the strongest populations at any time of day and does not allow boxing, to the point where two people on the same LAN have to get special dispensation. On blue, you can usually find a group quite easily, you will meet people and there will always be a few vendors in EC hawking their wares.

Why would they allow boxing? Boxing is for under-populated servers and sad gits who don't have the social skills to find a pick-up group.

Point apparently went way over your head.

[Bristlebard]

WTF, more people would consider post the era project 1999 is to be EQ, than not, and boxing became quite common in many instances. When I think of any game having multiple instances of the game open, it has always been EQ.

P1999 isn't about "EQ."

It's about classic EQ. And the vast, vast majority of people back then did not box.

[Swish]

Boxing would kill this server. If you wanna box, go play live.

Or any other non P1999 emu, plenty to choose from.

Got another boxer suspended last month (merry xmas pal), doing god's work <3

[Mentathiel]

<removed>

[falkun]

Swish - love the update to the signature gif (Velious dog).

[Swish]

Swish - love the update to the signature gif (Velious dog).

;)

[maskedmelon]

Swish - love the update to the signature gif (Velious dog).

Dos not bode well for a epilogue fans if it is accurate though. One step forward, one step back ....


^^

[Eliseus]

P1999 isn't about "EQ."

It's about classic EQ. And the vast, vast majority of people back then did not box.

Not true again. There has already been several posts that have mentioned people boxing even on dial up.

[Celatus]

Not true again. There has already been several posts that have mentioned people boxing even on dial up.

No that is true, the vast majority did not box until much later. Also the majority of players don't use the forums...

[Eliseus]

No that is true, the vast majority did not box until much later. Also the majority of players don't use the forums...

Great proof provided here. Yet still doesn't change people did it. Arguing for the sake or arguing? Probably.

Fact is, people boxed. It doesn't matter if it was 1 person or 1million people. People did it, and it was part of classic. Until you can prove other....... wait, it is a known fact people boxed during classic.

[Satren]

I believe 2 boxing should be allowed. 3 4 5 and 6 boxxing, no because thats how you truely kill this game, but I have known plenty of people that boxed in early EQ and did fine. Most of the time eq is slow paced enough where you can play 2 characters effectively 3-6 you start dropping off significantly unless you are running software, macros, scripts ect... This is the one thing that does annoy me about p99 is the lack of 2 boxing.

[Ezalor]

i'm sure a small number of people did indeed box in 1999, however, it is not permitted here and never will be.

whether or not you think that is a good thing is a personal preference, and arguing about it is dumb.

[Xer0]

Great proof provided here. Yet still doesn't change people did it. Arguing for the sake or arguing? Probably.

Fact is, people boxed. It doesn't matter if it was 1 person or 1million people. People did it, and it was part of classic. Until you can prove other....... wait, it is a known fact people boxed during classic.
Dude the mods have weighed in on this dozens of times already. Even if boxing was classic you were limited by the amount you were willing to pay per account. Since these accoutns are Free they have reasonably limited us to the amount of accoutns we can have on at once.

Though I personally think they way that is gone about enforcing it is ridiculous-- I have had 4 different people primed and ready to play the fuck out of some classic eq on different occasions, only to find that my past IP exemptions have been lifted after months of disuse. ALl those people who were potential newcomers to red and blue? Yeah none of them ever got aroudn to playing because ip exemptions take weeks.

[Shatford]

I've been in RM too, trying to camp hill giants with other people. We are all getting along, tagging a HG here and there and sharing the spawns when a bard comes in, outruns all of us and tags all HGs, leaving the rest of us scratching our balls. We can't compete, doesn't matter if we send a tell to the bard in question, we get "Its FFA, deal with it" in response. I realize this isn't indicative of ALL bards, but it is ONLY bards that do that sort of thing. Never had an issue with any other class.

[maskedmelon]

I propose that the Dev team set aside Velious tinkering to implement gopher holes randomly throughout all outdoor zones. Gopher holes would inflict instant damage equal to d200 x run speed modifier with the chance to strike critically, snare, root and apply Gopher Dung - 1hr negative 100 CHA (for the shame) debuff w/ d100 - tick duration chance to proc Gangrene a 3.6 hour ramping disease dot dealing x + 1 damage per tick for duration. Thoughts?

Let's work towards solutions, not whine about problems ^^

[zanderklocke]

I've been in RM too, trying to camp hill giants with other people. We are all getting along, tagging a HG here and there and sharing the spawns when a bard comes in, outruns all of us and tags all HGs, leaving the rest of us scratching our balls. We can't compete, doesn't matter if we send a tell to the bard in question, we get "Its FFA, deal with it" in response. I realize this isn't indicative of ALL bards, but it is ONLY bards that do that sort of thing. Never had an issue with any other class.

You haven't seen shamans root rot 5 seafuries at once or druids/wizards kite one seafury while they wait for 3 more to pop?

[Eliseus]

I believe 2 boxing should be allowed. 3 4 5 and 6 boxxing, no because thats how you truely kill this game, but I have known plenty of people that boxed in early EQ and did fine. Most of the time eq is slow paced enough where you can play 2 characters effectively 3-6 you start dropping off significantly unless you are running software, macros, scripts ect... This is the one thing that does annoy me about p99 is the lack of 2 boxing.

I don't think it should be allowed. I think I should clarify the point I'm getting at.

I just find it funny how many people throw out not classic or classic to so many things. I LOVE that here is no boxing allowed. I just find it ridiculous the amount of BS spewed by people that aren't classic and is classic. For example, bards did what the OP is complaining about all the time. The vast majority of the playerbase didn't have bards though that they did this with. So how come this isn't banned? That's mostly the implications of my post, is how come there is something like item recharging which the vast majority of the playerbase didn't know about, but all hell breaks lose for something like boxing? I just think people on these forums needs to get their priorities right and know what they are talking about before screaming not classic and classic at BS.

[Tenlaar]

Real bards tank in dungeons.

That is all.