MQ mobs with memory causing problems

[Tyrsis]

I understand we're lucky to have MQs available to us, and I also understand that staff is no longer supporting people who have issues with MQs. (Well I just learned that yesterday).

The problem is MQ mobs have memory of item turn-ins for an undisclosed amount of time if the MQ wasn't completed. There's also no way for us to know if an MQ mob has already received items from a previous individual who didn't complete the MQ.

I will give you a scenario that happened to me yesterday, and resulted in me losing thousands of plat and 150+ hours of effort:

Monk Epic: Robe of Whistling Fists

1.) Player 1 (me) has Robe of the Lost Circle
2.) Player 2 and Player 3 have the chardok and KC pipe

Player 2 handed in the Chardok Pipe, Player 3 Handed in the KC Pipe and then I handed in the Robe. Before we knew what happened Player 2 received the Robe of Whistling Fists and Player 3 + Myself both lost our items.

This is a problem because an individual who was at the MQ mob earlier at some point didn't complete their turn-in. As a result we unknowingly proceeded with the MQ and it was completely botched because of the mob's memory of items - and I lost quite a bit.

Some sort of MQ memory timer is needed because this can result in a major loss to a lot of people like myself. Additionally, let me add that it's completely silly to provide a feature in a game and choose not to support it. (yes I know its a free game and I have donated to support this free game) A lot of guilds and people have monopolized epic mob camps so much that people have very little choice but to purchase MQ pieces.

[Pringles]

Sounds classic / working as intended to me.

[Tyrsis]

Sounds classic / working as intended to me.

Did the staff not support MQ problems on live? It may be a classic feature but a classic feature without support isn't classic.

[nilbog]

Additionally, let me add that it's completely silly to provide a feature in a game and choose not to support it......

Did the staff not support MQ problems? It may be a classic feature but a classic feature without support isn't classic.

EQ live staff did not support mqing, if that is what you're asking.

Regarding the issue at hand, it is classic for npcs to keep memory of what quest items have been turned in while they are alive. However, once an npc is dead, that should clear its memory. I do not believe that is currently happening.

[Itap]

The real question is; Who would randomly turn in one of the pipes or the robe without the intent to complete the turn-in? (The person before you)

[Tyrsis]

The real question is; Who would randomly turn in one of the pipes or the robe without the intent to complete the turn-in? (The person before you)

I thought the same thing then noticed that the naming of the pipes is wrong in the wiki. Both pipes from chardok and KC are named "A Metal Pipe" in-game. You have to use the identify spell to figure out which is which.

However, on the wiki the chardok one is named "Metal Pipe" and the KC one is called "A Metal Pipe". So im assuming there was some confusion there and someone didn't have the right pipes.

[Tyrsis]

.....



EQ live staff did not support mqing, if that is what you're asking.

Regarding the issue at hand, it is classic for npcs to keep memory of what quest items have been turned in while they are alive. However, once an npc is dead, that should clear its memory. I do not believe that is currently happening.

So there's a possibility that when the mob is killed the memory isn't being wiped. So every monk that wanted to attempt an MQ turn-in on that particular mob would have lost their items as well?

This seems like a relatively serious bug.

[Itap]

I thought the same thing then noticed that the naming of the pipes is wrong in the wiki. Both pipes from chardok and KC are named "A Metal Pipe" in-game. You have to use the identify spell to figure out which is which.

However, on the wiki the chardok one is named "Metal Pipe" and the KC one is called "A Metal Pipe". So im assuming there was some confusion there and someone didn't have the right pipes.

So perhaps they turned in 2 of the same "Metal pipe"? That sucks. I wonder how many others have been burned on this MQ

[nilbog]

So there's a possibility that when the mob is killed the memory isn't being wiped. So every monk that wanted to attempt an MQ turn-in on that particular mob would have lost their items as well?

This seems like a relatively serious bug.

Only if the quest has yet to be completed, then the remaining items would be kept into the next spawn. This is what I've heard is happening, and what is bug reported elsewhere.

i.e.
-Someone turns in a pipe.
-Realize they do not the other pieces.
-Logs off so so mad.
-Someone else comes along.. and is like, I'm gonna make sure this works correctly! Let's kill the npc so it respawns clean. The newly spawned one would still have the original pipe.

The death clear is being looked into by Haynar, I think.

Regardless, doing a quest properly, and without mqing it, will always result in the reward. When the quest is completed, the component array should be cleared.

[Bbobo_]

or maybe (hear me out) the other guy who got the robe, set your ass up!

[Tyrsis]

or maybe (hear me out) the other guy who got the robe, set your ass up!

It's not always a scam. The guy with the robe is getting the celestial fists book with me right now. I just think the whole scenario is a bit dicey.

[Velerin]

And if you turned in your robe after the second guy accidently got the reward, the next MQ after you will be messed up too.

[wycca]

Nilbog I can confirm that's how it's working. Easy to test with Novashine in Qeynos.

I can also confirm that people have been turning in partial rewards on purpose in at least a few cases - Hasten (ie gold & rapier) and I'd guess monk robe.

I've personally had it happen to me on part of the soulfire quest.

Basically while alive this is classic, but they're not clearing while dead. If this is a bug, then CSR should be offering some support (which they're not).

[nilbog]

Basically while alive this is classic, but they're not clearing while dead. If this is a bug, then CSR should be offering some support (which they're not).

I do not believe we should offer assistance for failed multiquests, because as I said before, if someone is doing the quest as originally intended (without mq) and without mistake, they will receive the reward. This is the same policy as eqlive - check the items turned in by an individual player. If the quest itself bugged, I will certainly deem it reimbursable.

[nilbog]

I do not believe we should offer assistance for failed multiquests, because as I said before, if someone is doing the quest as originally intended (without mq) and without mistake, they will receive the reward. This is the same policy as eqlive - check the items turned in by an individual player. If the quest itself bugged, I will certainly deem it reimbursable.

To clarify, I do believe the undeveloped feature of npcs clearing quest inventory on death should happen. This will mechanically eliminate issues post npc death turn ins. However, if an npc is holding a quest item and is not killed, it should hold it until death or its array is cleared on a successful reward.

[Errakus]

To clarify, I do believe the undeveloped feature of npcs clearing quest inventory on death should happen. This will mechanically eliminate issues post npc death turn ins. However, if an npc is holding a quest item and is not killed, it should hold it until death or its array is cleared on a successful reward.

I agree, so in this situation, in my opinion, support should have been granted as we spawned this mob, there was no one else that gave anything to it, which was an obvious bug.

Either way in our case, we progressed past this portion by getting the Immortals book and just doing the next step as an MQ with the robe, the monk getting the next step item this time.

This is a major bug if guilds are allowed to camp Chardok in ae groups and just willy-nilly turn in pipes messing it up hoping someone gets frustrated enough to buy a full MQ for 105k.

[rubinoff]

I'm working on this quest as we speak. So guides will not help IF I SPAWN THE MOB FRESH and the mob has items in its inventory some how? That doesn't seem right... I understand if the mob is still up and someone failed a MQ. But if we ensure a fresh spawn and then don't get the item/lose pp is that really the players fault? Could we get a little clarification if the items are persisting through death?

[Errakus]

I'm working on this quest as we speak. So guides will not help IF I SPAWN THE MOB FRESH and the mob has items in its inventory some how? That doesn't seem right... I understand if the mob is still up and someone failed a MQ. But if we ensure a fresh spawn and then don't get the item/lose pp is that really the players fault? Could we get a little clarification if the items are persisting through death?

They wouldn't help us, but we were having someone else MQ a part of it on this mob. (We also spawned a fresh mob just so everyone knows.)

If it's anything regarding an MQ they won't help, if you yourself have all the pieces, if it's bugged you might have a spare leftover piece...

If MQing though someone else doing the MQ might get the Whistling Fists robe and you'll be in the same boat as us with needing to then have that person with the Robe MQ it when you get the Immortals tome in SF.

[Daldaen]

It is indeed frustrating that a freshly spawned NPC will retain memory of items turned in to that NPC in a previous incarnation.

I turned in the Book of the Celestial Fists to Kaiaren (sane by the lake, after spawning him freshly), and my cleric was rewarded the Monk Epic. Before I had a chance to turn in the Demon Fangs.

This isn't Classic and shouldn't happen. I do understand the staff having a no support stance with MQs, it's just frustrating when I did the MQ correctly, making sure the NPC wasn't sitting up from a previous failure etc. But I still lost the book which was a decent amount of camping and time.

So currently my monk has a robe and is camped in the pawbuster room waiting to loot one. Don't think I'll be paying for any pipe MQs so long as Balatin or Kaiaren will retain the memory of failed MQs from days or week prior, from spawns that had depopped and repopped since then.

[Tankdan]

I went to MQ a KC pipe, the NPC appeared/spawned after about an hour. The monk thought I turned it in the pipe, but I didnt, and he still got his item. Always thought that quest was buggy, or maybe an MQ before us got botched. But he had just spawned.

[evilkorn]

I got my robe sunday and turned in the KC pipe last so it was some time between then and when you were there.

[Sun Dec 28 12:04:09 2014] Brother Balatin says 'May you have the correct items or lost forever will be all.'
[Sun Dec 28 12:04:13 2014] Brother Balatin says 'May you have the correct items or lost forever will be all.'
[Sun Dec 28 12:04:16 2014] Brother Balatin holds his arms out and a fine robe materializes before your eyes. You grab it just in time to see the skeleton fade from existence.

[Daldaen]

Bump.

Turned in Cazic Quill + General's Pouch to a freshly spawned Stanos, got Ragebringer on my 60 druid.

The problem with NPC's keeping their quest memory through respawns/deaths is not classic and its a sizeable issue.

[SamwiseRed]

MQ is a classic bug/exploit.

Brad himself said low level characters running around with epics doesn't sound right. It comes down to common sense on whether it was intended or not.

[Crom]

Bump.

Turned in Cazic Quill + General's Pouch to a freshly spawned Stanos, got Ragebringer on my 60 druid.

The problem with NPC's keeping their quest memory through respawns/deaths is not classic and its a sizeable issue.

bump

[nejinmy]

Same thing happened to me as Daldaen 2 days before him with stanos

[towbes]

To clarify, I do believe the undeveloped feature of npcs clearing quest inventory on death should happen. This will mechanically eliminate issues post npc death turn ins. However, if an npc is holding a quest item and is not killed, it should hold it until death or its array is cleared on a successful reward.

For the cleric epic, when a Ragefire Heart is handed in to Omat Vastsea, Jhassad Oceanson is spawned on the coast. Jhassad NPC despawns after a set time. Currently, he is spawning with items still in his inventory from when he despawned. A mob that is just spawning should have a clear inventory. There isn't an opportunity to kill him to guarantee a cleared inventory since you have to hand in a ragefire heart to spawn him.

tl;dr Mobs who despawn should have their inventories cleared as if they were killed.

Nilbog do you equate despawning with death as far as inventory clears go?

[nilbog]

Nilbog do you equate despawning with death as far as inventory clears go?

yes

[towbes]

Bump for awareness. Let's get these inventories cleared out when mobs despawn!

[funnland]

Got hit with this bug, and now have a Orb of Triumviate on my druid. Super bummed out right now. :(

[Brinkman]

If this memory bug cannot be fixed, then I would say aloud, that it is time to mark certain camps as class specific.

Nilbog has said that if you don't want problems, then you should complete the quest yourself without a MQ. I ponder how exactly they expect this to be done when we have Druids Farming Monk No-drop Epic Items, Enchanters Farming Cleric epic no-drop items and on and on. Lets be reasonable here.

Its hard enough to compete with our own classes for these camps, let alone the entire server. While MQing was without question something you could do in classic on live, I don't ever recall MQ auction spam as something that happened much, if at all. Here on P99 its all day long, ALL Day.

I actually am insulted by Nilbogs assertion that I should go camp my epic items myself. Guilds have certain items on lockdown, some items are single spawns and everytime I go check the camp i find a player NOT of the class that needs said item there.

These are not classic problems. I completed 3 epics on live during classic and never ran into another class camping the items I needed. Sure, it was still a pain with wait times. But nothing like it is here.

Mqing is classic

Mq auctions as a regular happening is not classic

People camping no-drop items not for their class is not classic.

Allowing MQing here makes sense, but understand that since EVERYONE knows about it, it has changed gameplay entirely.

If you expect me to complete my epic without MQ, make it so its actually possible, make it so I don't have to compete with the entire server ( as intended A.K.A No-drop items).

Or, realize that MQing has taken a new role on this server, that it never had on live during classic, and that you either need to support MQing, or get rid of it. You cannot have something so pervasive on your server and pretend its not there.

[planarity]

When the quest is completed, the component array should be cleared.

This bit isn't currently happening either.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Bump for awareness! Getting ready to do Balatin turn ins soon and this thread has me worried! I want to echo the previous sentiment that if Nilbog expects people to complete their epics as intended, then the no drop class specific quest items need to go only to those classes they were intended for.

I was also thinking recently myself how awesome it would be if P99 just removed MQ altogether. People might actually be willing to help people get epic quest drops more often if the greed factor was taken off the table.

[Jimjam]

If people weren't little bitches that vehemently complained about MQing but still pay an arm and a leg for it then MQing wouldn't be such a problem.

The 'problem' with disabling mq is that a lot of 'incidental' drops would end up rotting instead of being used.

I remember being a very proactive hate raider but even so had to eventually accept an Earthcaller mq from the guild for my own epic.

[Bummey]

Withered Treant in NK for the druid fucked up for us yesterday, although in our advantage. I was MQing the Clean Lakewater for my friend, but after turning in my piece first I received the Warm Pulsing Treant Heart and the Withered Treant despawned. I initially assumed they accidentally turned in their items first. I can only assume someone boned a turn in earlier and confused their Pure Lakewater (from the corrupted barracuda in LOIO for the Kunark cleansed spirit) for the correct Clean Lakewater item.

If it's proposed that MQ memory does not clear when the NPC despawns or a turn in is completed, that has to be the case as we were watching the Withered Treant spawn pretty closely. Either that or someone sneaked in and fucked up between pop and us seeing it up.

They still have their corrupted items, and I have a Cleansed Spirit of Antonica, so nothing was actually lost. I'm worried that I'll end up with another druid epic (or a lore conflict at least) when I MQ this Cleansed Spirit for them. Hopefully that kind of MQ error might be eligible for reimbursement?

[Baam]

Ouch