What makes a great Paladin

[Destron]

I'm hoping we can get some of the great paladins of this server to share some tips for a novice paladin.

What are some over looked strategies that will separate you from the pack of non-existent paladins on this server.

[falkun]

Pre-aggro: While tanking one mob, generate aggro on the next mob so if mez breaks early, it'll run at you instead of the enc/bard.

DPS-less aggro: In a raid, aggro as much as you can the ENCs are mezzing so when mez breaks, it comes after you instead of the squishies.

FoL management: If you use FOL on a mob while not in melee range, as soon as root/mez breaks it'll start fleeing until FOL wears off, even if you step into melee after the spell is cast. So time things so FOL wears off before you break mez/root. Keep the aggro, lose the flee.

If L59+, know when to /camp so you can 90 rez someone and when to stay in and steel aggro so a cleric can camp out.

Learn the pulls. You have soothe and a bow, put them to work.

Stunlock. By 49 you've got 2 stuns and bash. If you've got clarity, every mob should have a full mana bar when it dies. If you don't, manage bash, stun, and holy might so the important spells don't get casted.

[hammertime7795]

A good rogue helps.

[kaev]

A good rogue helps.

A mediocre Rogue (or two, or three) is simply grand in your group. Between Stun, Root, & the much-abused Flash of Light you can hold agro so well that only a determined caster or hybrid can take it from you on purpose. A Paladin (or, tbh, an SK or Ranger) makes a mediocre Rogue look good. Rogues have the best sustained DPS in the game, with two Rogues mobs just melt.


Caveat: I am not a "great" Paladin, but usually I manage to be competent.

some random musings...

Don't let the Enchanter or Cleric die. Ever. Not even if they're bad.

If you're grouped with a bad Bard, do your best to keep the rest of the group alive and don't put yourself or anybody else at risk to save him from his badness.

If you're grouped with a great Bard pay attention and find ways to magnify his greatness. If things start going pear-shaped don't hesitate to LH the Bard and/or die in his place. A group that works well with a great Bard can accomplish some amazing things.

As with every class in EQ, situational awareness is crucial. Whether you know the other players and the content well, or you're learning new content with a random PUG, or anything in-between, pay attention to everything around you. It's pretty much a rule with me that when I derp tunnel-vision was involved somehow.

Be aware of what your spells can do for the group, unusual group makeups can be a lot of fun. Be creative. Just because you have Paladin & Warrior in same group doesn't automatically mean the Paladin should tank and the Warrior DPS. For example, Root can be used for pulling, CC (rooting caster adds out of LOS to your camp in a dungeon can be huge in a group without an enchanter), stopping runners, and to allow a Warrior to hold solid agro vs. all-out melee DPS, all at the same camp and in the same group.

Learn by watching others regardless of the class they're playing. (My use of Root improved hugely back in the day on live because I spent some time paying attention to the play of a Druid who was popular in dungeon groups.)

Adjust your play to complement the play of your groupmates.

Pay attention to everything around you. Can't over-emphasize that.

[captnamazing]

Snap-Aggro through blinds & stuns, clutch LoH, patch healing, and CC with stuns/roots to save your casters is what makes a paladin so fucking awesome.

IMO, paladins are the best tanks in group situations. They are also fantastic for planar raids.

Paladins also can be RP'd in a very cool way.

[Dokt]

Roleplay as a condescending ace-ho with a penchant for bro jokes and assplay. People love that.

All other points listed above are valid, but add fabulous to it and people will want you. Want you so bad.

[Pint]

Anything that isn't an elf

[kaev]

Anything that isn't an elf

Half Elf looks great, Human pot-helm looks bad, High Elf is a pansy, and Dwarf is so damned ugly even Ogres are embarrassed for them. Only one choice unless you twink with tranix crown or wait for Velious hats, then there are two.

[Ezalor]

Half Elf look cool until Velious dildo chin helmets.

High Elf master race cat helmets. Humans option #2.

[pharmakos]

a paladin can actually solo dark blues all the way to level 50+ if they're so inclined, using root jousting.

get yourself a beefy two hander with a long delay. root the mob you're fighting. only step into melee range every time your delay timer resets. turn auto attack off between swings so you don't waste your swing chances on "you are no close enough" messages.

you can even sit down for meditate ticks in between swings when you get the timing down well enough.

i was soloing dar ghoul knights at level 48 using this strategy.

this strategy even works really well against caster mobs. you might at first think that you'd want to use stuns to prevent their casts, but its actually better to heal yourself through the mob's casting, waiting for the mob to run out of mana. make sure to use junk buffs to stack your buff window so that debuffs and DOTs are on top of your buff list. keep cancel magic and cure poison memorized, and also cure disease if you can spare the spell slot. a solo paladin can easily take out even a yellow con necromancer mob.

[maskedmelon]

1. Understand that your role is to become and remain the target of anything your group engages (provided you are the designated tank). If something is pissed at someone other than you, you are not doing your job (unless you are not tanking).
2. Learn effective cc with route. Space mobs to limit the damage you and your group take.
3. Learn the limits of root. Root can make tanking easy, but remember that you have no idea what he mob's aggrieved list looks like. If root breaks, chances are you are not at the top of the mob's hate list if that is all you have casted. Learn when not to root.
4. Help your healer out. You can spot heal casters (as well as others) with comparable efficiency. You should be taking most of the damage anyway, so help save the cleric's mana for those vastly more efficient heals.
5. Communicate. Have trouble with others breaking mez mid fight while you are just building latent aggro? Designate an alternative MA or ask group mates to follow your assist call and just blindly assist. Is someone in your group charming? Discuss their pet and kill order preference. People often prefer to charm casters for dps and it can create confusion/waste time if you start off trying to kill something that is or will in short Oder become a pet.

[Tuljin]

Have a set of CHA gear. You will calm very often, despite what the P99 hivemind says. Between root/calm/stuns/DA (at level 55) Paladin is an excellent puller. I was succesfully calming Seb at level 52 and 53 (weaker frogs of course)

Know when to use Lay on Hands. It will turn the tide of a battle. Much of the time you'll have to use it on someone else.

Great Paladins also stun pets on charm breaks (as Clerics and Wizards should be as well.) You can Flash of Light the mob youre tanking and change target and cast. It gets a little tricky if there's a ton of mobs around but other than that its not an awful inconvenience.

[Ezalor]

Do not listen to the above guy. CHA is not a significant enough modifier in lull success rates to merit having a set of CHA gear. The most important factor for lull success is your level compared to the level of the mob. Regardless, you are a tank first and foremost and your gear should reflect that and swapping a 5/55 ring for CHA or something similar is just colossally stupid.

[maskedmelon]

Do not listen to the above guy. CHA is not a significant enough modifier in lull success rates to merit having a set of CHA gear. The most important factor for lull success is your level compared to the level of the mob. Regardless, you are a tank first and foremost and your gear should reflect that and swapping a 5/55 ring for CHA or something similar is just colossally stupid.

No CHA does have a significant impact on lull success. Try it ;)

[Tuljin]

Its easy enough to swap your gear back in after you calm, and much of it doesn't weigh much at all I.e. drake hide leggings. I always swap my gear back in. There's also the dex/cha mask and rings which are great for DEX as well as CHA, which you should have anyways. Not to mention the gear off Ragefire which not only is awesome but also has great CHA.

Of course levels are the biggest modifier, and that's why I get mine. Let me tell you what though I've seen a significant difference in crit resists between my 55 base CHA and my buffed/geared CHA. Its only over the 200 softcap that it matters very little. High Elves will have an even better time. I know level 60 Clerics who carry CHA gear and they calm regularly, and also happen to be very highly respected players on this server, and also happen to traverse the most dangerous dungeons in the game regularly.

Or we can just keep listening to the same old crap from everybody who thinks they know how to play Paladin but have never even grouped with one, let alone played one. When your ass is out there getting levels in dangerous places you learn what works and what doesn't, and CHA has saved my ass more than once.

[Ezalor]

Have tested the effects of CHA on lulls extensively so we'd just be arguing anecdotal vs ancedotal. It might make sense in a specific situation like being an underleveled Paladin trying to lull Seb but to generalize it into a golden rule is just plain stupid when the average Paladin is level 24 pulling Graveyard in MM and in 98% of cases can successfully root the one light blue add that would occur on a hard resist.

[Kender]

what mkes a great paladin?

a player willing to level one to 60

[SamwiseRed]

a good paladin is a twinked to the teeth paladin.

[kaev]

Yes, level is key as you can't get a crit failure if the lull succeeds. But I find it helpful to carry a crude stein (+15cha). It's pretty quick and easy to swap a single item to make critical failures less common. Also Kaev is a half-elf paladin rather than the over-popular dwarf, so his standard gear + the stein has put his cha at/over 120 for much of his career and crit failures have been pretty rare except when I've been lazy about the stein swap in my experience on p99. It's a nice feeling when you stick a lull on the fourth try.

[pharmakos]

yeah crude stein and two 7CHA rings is +29charisma for just two extra items. definitely worth keeping around unless you're lazy.

[Pint]

what mkes a great paladin?

a player willing to level one to 60

ah yea, this too

[Tuljin]

Have a set of CHA gear. You will calm very often, despite what the P99 hivemind says.

Funny how quickly a member of said "hivemind" chimed in to belittle my good advice. Its behavior like this which is why most good players are reluctant to share secrets and advice. "Great" players are "great" due to esoteric knowledge, little-used tactics, and the willingness to take calculated risks (i.e. try new things.)

I found myself calming all the way through leveling in Unrest, Mistmoore Castle, Sol B, Lower Guk, and Hole entrance in low 50s. If you want to move the XP bar you don't always have the luxury of waiting around for an Enc, especially one that is likely a nub at low levels. I would duo with Rogue and trio a lot with a Shaman. I was calming often. Carrying CHA gear is certainly unorthodox advice, but it is far from "bad."

I believe the title of the thread is "What makes a great Paladin?" Many of the comments on this thread are accurate - one who is willing to get to level 60. Really what that is saying is its hard to even get a Paladin levels at all with the negative stigma associated with them, coupled with the fact that if you play a Paladin you can't "just be a tank" in order to be truly effective. You have to utilize your spells properly and effectively as well as be willing to go out of your way to find ways to move your XP bar, something that your average player "rolling a tank" simply won't do.

I lulled, bashed, LOS root parked, and stunned my way through my levels in small, unorthodox groups in little-traversed mid-level zones in order to move my bar as quickly as possible. I even succesfully duoed the Arch Magi in LGuk with a Rogue when he was white to me at level 45. The Rogue was 43. You can't just post up LFG and get groups on Paladin. On this path, I found myself calming ~often~ - - - - - certainly ~often~ enough to warrant the use of CHA gear.

A Paladin calming/tanking Seb at level 52 certainly isn't something you see every day. I was tanking just fine and the XP was way better than the LCY in KC. I will say Root was not sticking well, but when you get Enstill its way better. My stuns/bashes were landing just fine, and they were even hitting Krups often enough. All that really matters is keeping the agro on you and keeping the DPS from charmed pets and other melees coming from behind the mob. Why was I in Seb at 52? Because I know the class and zone well enough to be effective there, and there was no fucking way I would watch paint dry in KC with the "hoi polloi" of P99.

If you look at the character distribution statistics website, you will see there are barely 40 people that have leveled a Paladin past level 55 in the 5 year history of this server. If I played like everybody else, I certainly wouldn't be a member of this small group. If I played like everyone else I'd post up LFG in KC and barely get through 51 then quit.

[kaev]

what mkes a great paladin?

a player willing to level one to 60

I'm trying to think of a Paladin I've known on p99 who kept playing more than a month after hitting 60. Hit 60 then ghost seems to be the norm, with a bit of hit 60 and then level an alt to 60 and play that instead mixed in.

[Erati]

I'm trying to think of a Paladin I've known on p99 who kept playing more than a month after hitting 60. Hit 60 then ghost seems to be the norm, with a bit of hit 60 and then level an alt to 60 and play that instead mixed in.

thats bc most of them get 60 sitting at the zone in of Chardok nowadays

my paladin enjoys being useful while being parked in places like Crypt or Raid targets hehe

[pharmakos]

I'm trying to think of a Paladin I've known on p99 who kept playing more than a month after hitting 60. Hit 60 then ghost seems to be the norm, with a bit of hit 60 and then level an alt to 60 and play that instead mixed in.

Tysidious.

[Raev]

In my experience on my enchanter, the resist rate is determined by MR/level, but the critical resist rate is determined by charisma. The second is far more important, of course. That said, I haven't really tested it because lull crits are so rare that I would need to do like 1000 trials with 255, then another 1000 with 200, etc.

my paladin enjoys being useful while being parked in places like Crypt or Raid targets hehe

That's why I rolled a warrior . . . :p

[Ele]

a pure heart

[Ezalor]

Funny how quickly a member of said "hivemind" chimed in to belittle my good advice. Its behavior like this which is why most good players are reluctant to share secrets and advice. "Great" players are "great" due to esoteric knowledge, little-used tactics, and the willingness to take calculated risks (i.e. try new things.)

I found myself calming all the way through leveling in Unrest, Mistmoore Castle, Sol B, Lower Guk, and Hole entrance in low 50s. If you want to move the XP bar you don't always have the luxury of waiting around for an Enc, especially one that is likely a nub at low levels. I would duo with Rogue and trio a lot with a Shaman. I was calming often. Carrying CHA gear is certainly unorthodox advice, but it is far from "bad."

I believe the title of the thread is "What makes a great Paladin?" Many of the comments on this thread are accurate - one who is willing to get to level 60. Really what that is saying is its hard to even get a Paladin levels at all with the negative stigma associated with them, coupled with the fact that if you play a Paladin you can't "just be a tank" in order to be truly effective. You have to utilize your spells properly and effectively as well as be willing to go out of your way to find ways to move your XP bar, something that your average player "rolling a tank" simply won't do.

I lulled, bashed, LOS root parked, and stunned my way through my levels in small, unorthodox groups in little-traversed mid-level zones in order to move my bar as quickly as possible. I even succesfully duoed the Arch Magi in LGuk with a Rogue when he was white to me at level 45. The Rogue was 43. You can't just post up LFG and get groups on Paladin. On this path, I found myself calming ~often~ - - - - - certainly ~often~ enough to warrant the use of CHA gear.

A Paladin calming/tanking Seb at level 52 certainly isn't something you see every day. I was tanking just fine and the XP was way better than the LCY in KC. I will say Root was not sticking well, but when you get Enstill its way better. My stuns/bashes were landing just fine, and they were even hitting Krups often enough. All that really matters is keeping the agro on you and keeping the DPS from charmed pets and other melees coming from behind the mob. Why was I in Seb at 52? Because I know the class and zone well enough to be effective there, and there was no fucking way I would watch paint dry in KC with the "hoi polloi" of P99.

If you look at the character distribution statistics website, you will see there are barely 40 people that have leveled a Paladin past level 55 in the 5 year history of this server. If I played like everybody else, I certainly wouldn't be a member of this small group. If I played like everyone else I'd post up LFG in KC and barely get through 51 then quit.

Yikes... :eek: Someone might be taking an elf simulator way too seriously.

[Tuljin]

<-------------------------------------- confirmed neckbeard :P