Are shamans really useful in groups and raids?

[Grymes]

Hi all

I've played my shaman up to level 32 now, and though I like playing him I can't help but to feel like a buffbot and off-healer in groups.

Rarely do I get to string DD's and stack them DoT's. If I do, there's likely other classes around that would replace and out do my dps.

I see no reason this will change in the late game.

Are we a jack of all trades, yet mediocre at them all?

[username17]

They're excellent in groups. After I have everyone buffed (if I'm not healing or hasting) I'll pop out my 55 pet and toss a few nukes as well.
On raids they're needed but you only really need one Shaman. And you'll be a buff bot on raids 99% of the time. Slow is very helpful if the boss is slowable though.

I would NEVER use Shaman and mediocre in the same sentence. They are far from it.

[Vellaen]

If you view your role as DPS, yeah, you're not going to live up to expectations as a shaman. Buffs, backup heals, and - especially in groups - slows are your most effective tools. Like the above poster mentions, you can throw in a few nukes and DoTs if there's nothing more pressing. The epic is great for that: mana free damage means you don't care (much) if the mob dies before it runs full course. JBB, too.

Shamans are amazingly powerful. If you're rich (JBB, epic, fungi, Torpor), shamans are downright godly. But one thing they aren't is a raw DPS class.

[Orruar]

You're still at the stage where mana regen and buff duration are both fairly low. Because of this, you don't have a lot of spare mana when buffing a full group. At later levels, this changes. Between increased mana regen and increased buff duration, you end up spending a small part of your mana on buffs and more on dots/nukes/debuffs.

[Fanguru]

Shamans are incredibly useful in raids, but the role has nothing to do with DPS.
It's all about buffs, debuffs and heals: buff pre-fights, debuff mobs (malo + slow), keep people up.
In Kunark you can have 0 shaman in a raid and still plow through the content. Still they are useful, and comes Velious Slow is just too valuable.

[DrKvothe]

At higher levels, you're an essential part of any 6 man group. Mobs scale very differently than players; at your level, the difference isn't too large, but at upper levels the mobs are distinctly tougher than us. With expert crowd control, you'll be fighting 1 at a time most of the time, but even then don't expect fights to be easy without slow. With slow, however, mob damage is reduced to 25 or 30% its normal level; your spell is effectively doing 70-75% of the tanking.

Honestly, that would be enough to make us an essential component of a group. Yes, enchanters can do that too, but if an enchanter is doing CC, haste/clarity buffs, and slows, forget about charming. And enchanter charms are a huge part of your group's dps. So another way to look at it is that by being there to slow, you allow the enchanter to charm. With your malo line of spells, you also greatly reduce the chance of shit going badly when the enchanter charms. This is the second important role of a shaman in groups, and it will be greatly appreciated. When your enchanter dies, it's often a wipe.

Your stat buffs are over-rated. I'm skeptical that they ever really make a difference in 6-man content. However, there's a powerful psychological effect; when melee dps chars have maxed stats, they feel better about their abilities even if you can't tell the difference. The exception to these statements is your regen line of spells, which act as a super mana-efficient heal. These reduce the frequency with which a cleric needs to CH your tank, and are particularly useful for monks while they're splitting, since they'll be regaining quite a bit of HP while they lie around =D.

Your root line of spells is also incredibly useful in groups. Rooting adds isn't always necessary or even a good idea, but in some cases it can be very helpful. Since your roots dont do damage, the enchanter can mez on top of them, and then when mez breaks the mob won't be able to run over and slaughter the enchanter. Yes, other classes can root, but at the times when root is most useful all the other classes are going to be busy.

[Freakish]

If you run one shaman per raid you're going to drive your shaman nuts. Nobody wants to buff 30-40+ people by themselves. My god.

[DrKvothe]

I think for the most part the idea of one shaman per raid is a fantasy. It's one of the most popular classes in the game.

[Cecily]

I think for the most part the idea of one shaman per raid is a fantasy. It's one of the most popular classes in the game.

I wish that was true.

[mgellan]

IMHO it's one per raid cuz shamans all seem to play alts because "we have so many Shamans so I can play my ______" LOL.

One shaman per raid is awful, constant canni-torpor trying to get everyone buffed, with half the raid is unbuffed because they won't send you a tell with what they need until AFTER you demem all your buffs to get spells up for actually helping fight mobs.

Then generally the raid will zone in / port up when you're LOH / LOM and canni-torporing wildly, so ppl will be wondering why you die first while you try slow all the crap that they pull and it all starts beating on you before you can get Torpor off.

If you make it through the break in, Shamans have a lot to do with patch heals and slow on inc mobs that don't go down fast, as well as keeping buffs on people. If there's another shaman in the raid, I make it my special job to keep targetting all the chanters in turn so a heal can keep them alive when I see them getting whacked from a mez or pet break.

Shamans really shine in emergency situations too, like when the monk pulls a bazillion mobs in Fear and all of a sudden the chanters are dead and the clerics are getting hammered! In jumps the shaman rooting and AOE slowing (ghetto mezzing) everything, while they patch heal everyone to keep the raid alive. When the Shaman(s) go down, you know you're f*cked, hope a cleric got out alive!

My $0.02 anyways.

Regards,
Mg

[Man0warr]

I think for the most part the idea of one shaman per raid is a fantasy. It's one of the most popular classes in the game.

No one wants to play Shamans for raiding, just for soloing/duoing cash camps.

Multiple sacrificial shamans are required for Velious raiding though so people will be forced to play them and not their alts.

[iruinedyourday]

You're still at the stage where mana regen and buff duration are both fairly low. Because of this, you don't have a lot of spare mana when buffing a full group. At later levels, this changes. Between increased mana regen and increased buff duration, you end up spending a small part of your mana on buffs and more on dots/nukes/debuffs.

Orruar and I dont agree on many things, but this we do. Level 32-45 is the worst grind for a shaman.. the 6 man grouping is the WORST TIME IVE HAD IN EQ in those levels.. especially if you dont have a enc in your group to haste the melees.. like you + cleric and 4 melee's is the worst day you'll ever have.. id /q that group even if we were making great XP.. ugh i hate even thinking about it.

not until 49 do your buffs last long enough for you to be super chill in a 6 man group.. 49+ youll find yourself being a huge part of the group, and here posting on the forums at the same time and youll be very happy.

But 32-44 is barforama.. but hey 13 levels of barforama in 60 of badassery? not a bad exchange rate.

for 32-44 just find small groups, or ones with enchanters!

[DrKvothe]

Lol I remember 32 and 33 being the worst, with 34+ being fine because of the new dog. At 29, you don't get a new dot, so your root/rot damage is the same at 32 as it was at 24. Ugh.

I did 32 and 33 in HHK goblin groups, and honestly the exp wasn't that bad and the loot was great. Iruinedyourday is right about buffing without an enchanter being really, really awful though; keeping regen and haste up on the melees used basically all of my mana while I grouped.

According to my notes, 34 and 35 I did HHK guards solo. At some point in 35 I moved to the ancient croc camp and stayed there until 37, raking in phat cash. My socks still smell like ass from that.

[iruinedyourday]

when i have melee's that ask me for haste i want to just say, FUCK NO SHUTUP NO HASTE WHO CARES I DONT WE DONT NEED IT JESUS SHUTUP

[hammertime7795]

Useful not really. Amazing and probably required for anything good yes.

[Widan]

If I was a shaman I wouldn't even log on for raids in Kunark. The potential upgrades are not worth the pain of buffing everyone until Velious.