Non-Raid tank

[Destron]

I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into SK vs Paladin.

I'm looking to make a toon who I really don't twink at all but I want to play a tank. I feel like warrior is a bit bland and the other two options give me more control and nuance. SK vs Paladin or Warrior!...go!

[Estu]

Both have excellent aggro generation and can root. Pally has the superior unique ability (Lay on Hands is better than Harm Touch). Paladin can lull (makes it a good puller), stun (good against casters), and heal. Paladins can eventually 90% rez. SK can feign death (good for pulling), life tap, snare, fear, and has a weak pet (snare + fear + pet = soloing potential). Paladins actually get free heals with some cheap items (deepwater helm, I think), which is a handy thing to have.

I'd say both are very solid. Go with either one and you'll be great in groups. SK has the edge solo-wise.

[wycca]

Since everyone loves SK's a ton more for cool factor, I'll do Paladin pro/cons.

Pros-
- Rarest class in P99 - paladin specific gear is cheap and there won't be much competition for it on any raids you do attend
- LoH can be useful oh-shit button
- Deepwater Bracer clicks @45(I think) = 4sec of stun, 6sec cast, mobs can spend up to 2/3rds of their time stunned, good for groups
- Like 85% of the spellbook of a lvl 50 cleric at lvl 60. This deserves to be broken down more, because this is huge, the cleric spellbook is so versatile.
- You can calm/pacify/lull - makes for good pulling in many zones
- You can rez (90% eventually) - great for recovery or when clr dies
- You can root - good CC by itself
- You get DA - useful to keep loaded & for traveling certain areas
- You get pretty decent heals, you're no cleric, but you get sup heal
- In Velious you get a group heal and a heal-over-time, which, on many AE group/raid mobs, makes you a better healer
- In Velious you get a unique hp buff - Divine Strength
- Epic is one of the easiest out there and is super cheap if you want to buy it
- Great group tank, much better than warriors
- Some really cool weapons come velious (lances!)

Cons -
- People think you suck
- Low dps
- Low dps
- Low dps
- Hybrid penalty (until mid-velious) means slow leveling
- Hybrid penalty means lack of groups at times
- You can't gate/port/invis/etc
- You don't offer much unique to a raid, you're a token class - but in groups you should be more desirable due to importance of agro in velious
- Have to compete with warriors, other melee, and sometimes clerics for ac/hp/resist/plate gear

[hammertime7795]

Both are good non raid tanks, both are fun to play, sk seem to have more to do in general toys to play with better for someone who likes to stay busy imo. Pick whichever fits your play style better.

[Jimjam]

Paladin is a solid class... if you aren't in a rush :P.

[Destron]

I am leaning toward SK.

My main is a bard so I do get a bit bored with the warrior and if SK really has more options I think that's the route I'll go...now to decide what race.

Really leaning toward Human. Troll maybe, ogre no, DE no, iksar maybe...

[Tuljin]

For tanking purposes I would take stuns over FD any day, but that's just my play style. FD is of course a powerful skill, however it does nothing for your group when you are in combat (it only saves your own ass :-P )

Flash of Light a mob to snap agro to you while the rest of the group is beating on him and can quickly change your attention to a squishy party member who has agro or a charm class that just had a charm break, stun, and save the day - all while still tanking your current mob. You can also heal yourself while holding agro by using this technique.

You can also use stun for a nice agro cushion when you pull - especially casters. Toss a stun to block their first spell, then you can go hide around a corner in your camp and the mob will come straight to you without stopping to cast on someone else in your group from afar. You can use this technique to park mobs wherever you want without agroing other party members.

You have to get a pally to level 30 first before you get a stun spell, however.

And it is pretty much true that people lean SK for the "cool factor." People really underestimate how much of a game changer Stun is. Combined with root, heal, LoH, and calms Paladin has a utility set that is incredibly powerful in the right hands.

(Yes, the DPS sucks, but snap agro makes up for that :-P )

[Danth]

Between Paladin and Shadow Knight:

I rate the Paladin as the superlative tank for normal groups for the reasons mentioned above--particularly due to its ability to shut down spell casting monsters. It offers control and lifesaving ability that other tanks simply lack. If you want to spend most your time tanking for full or near-full groups, this is the class to pick. The Paladin's pretty specialized for that purpose, however, and often feels a bit pointless when not tanking. The Shadow Knight, by comparison, serves as a decent group tank whilst generally being a stronger class than the Paladin when not acting as a tank. The SK's better for solo, most duo, travels around more easily, etc. I suspect this explains the marginally higher popularity of the Shadow Knight on P1999, although both classes are towards the bottom in terms of overall numbers.

Racial choices for the Shadow Knight mostly amount to a question of min-max effectiveness versus leveling speed and convenience. Most hybrids do not make level 60 so that isn't an inconsequential consideration.

Danth

[DrKvothe]

To me it boils down to a choice between snare and stun. Both are godly. I rank snare as generally more useful, except in the cases where mobs don't ever run away (undead stuff, for example), in which case its useless.

Paladin tends to be better when working with a druid or shaman healer, since chain-stunning mobs is the difference between having mana breaks and chain pulling. Paladins can decrease shaman healer downtime thanks to Daring on Deepwater Helm.

[Daldaen]

Snare/FD vs stun/heal/root/rez

SK is more pullery and dungeon/skirmish fighting.

Paladin is more grind camp and utility / crowd control.

Personally I favor Paladin -> SK -> Ranger -> Bard -> Warrior in a group setting.

Snap aggro is where it's at, after that comes survivability and utility. Knight aggro is very similar, but Paladins survivability with self heals and root CC beats SKs. But SKs can double as puller if necessary. Primary issue there is if FD doesn't memblur them and they are down but a mob is in camp you don't have your tank there to tank.

[Kennie]

Paladin wins. Especially in Velious.

[Destron]

Paladin wins. Especially in Velious.

Why in velious?

[Daldaen]

They get a decent heal over time and stackable HP buff. Plus better gears.

[Danth]

Keep in mind that's not to say the SK doesn't remain a competent group tank in Velious as well. Either of them will fill the role to most groups' satisfaction. Both classes benefit from improvements during the Velious era. It's just that tanking and combat control in group content is the Paladin's specialty while the SK is more versatile overall at the cost of some defensive control.

Danth