Shaman race choice without torpor.

[Veleria]

I am having trouble choosing between Barb for looks, Ogre for Stun and Iksar for Regen. I cannot stand troll, just a personal thing. I know a lot of the guides assume Torpor but I am not in a raid guild and the price of torpor on this server is insane so I can't count on ever getting it. How important is race choice, and will the Regen of the Iksar matter more without torpor? If I go Iksar with the lack of a JBB matter that much?

With Velious so close the real question is JBB or Iksar regen if you don't assume torpor as a given?

[brecon]

Torpor is a game changer at 60, and opens up options for you, both solo and in group play, that don't exist without torpor.

In some ways, the race choice with or without torpor is the same conversation. Without torpor, yes, racial regen retains more value. But that is the exact same conversation that exists from 0-59 about which race is best.

So, a 60 shaman without torpor? Same conversation. Frontal stun immunity is probably the most valuable (ogre), followed by regen (ikky / troll), followed by barbarian. I rolled Barb myself, and while the frontal stun immunity would be great, I don't regret the choice.

JBB is a fun toy but not essential, it's main value outside of minor utility is for leveling techniques from 45-50. But a JBB is 25k, the epic about 30k. Shamans are an expensive class to gear, but you can solo named camps for gear while xping...I got great xp and cash from seafurys, OOT AC, Perma giants, LGuk Frenzy, etc. while mobs still conned blue.

[aamok]

another consideration is the gear that they can wear. observe that troll/ogre cant wear kylong/seb scale/jarsath(who cares) and specific really nice pieces like IGS. my shaman as an ogre is wearing a lot of leather hand-me-downs from my druid.

[Kenzi]

So is Ogre the consensuses? I am in the same boat, and while I want to go Iksar for the regen, I don't want to kill myself with racial limitations.

[fiveeauxfour]

Search the forums. There is so much discussion on this topic. Basically the consensus is that one should play the race (s)he wants to and realize that to min/max is to play the strength's of one's own ability. AKA play what you think is fun!

[Kenzi]

to min/max is to play the strength

My min/maxing starts with picking the best race.

[fiveeauxfour]

The top shaman "solo artist" (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165) is a barbarian. Troll race is also up there too. These players got to the top of the list not due to the race they chose but due to their skill. You seem to be approaching the game wrong when you say there is a "best" race. When in fact any shaman race can do anything because the class itself is so powerful.

Again, play what you think is fun. You will be looking at this toon for a long time if you want to get to 60, so don't choose a race just because people tell you it's the best. You need to pick a race and make it the best.

[Veleria]

The top shaman "solo artist" (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165) is a barbarian. Troll race is also up there too. These players got to the top of the list not due to the race they chose but due to their skill. You seem to be approaching the game wrong when you say there is a "best" race. When in fact any shaman race can do anything because the class itself is so powerful.

Again, play what you think is fun. You will be looking at this toon for a long time if you want to get to 60, so don't choose a race just because people tell you it's the best. You need to pick a race and make it the best.

This was really helpful, I want to play a Barbarian but I was worried I would end up behind the curve if I ever to to the upper eschelons.

[Widan]

The top shaman "solo artist" (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165) is a barbarian. Troll race is also up there too. These players got to the top of the list not due to the race they chose but due to their skill. You seem to be approaching the game wrong when you say there is a "best" race. When in fact any shaman race can do anything because the class itself is so powerful.

Again, play what you think is fun. You will be looking at this toon for a long time if you want to get to 60, so don't choose a race just because people tell you it's the best. You need to pick a race and make it the best.

Any shaman can click puppet strings, yes. For high end velious soloing you will want to be an ogre.

[BlkCamel]

100k for Torpor not that hard to get to be honest. If you think you can dedicate a few hours at a time to camp 5-8k items. I know it sounds alot but depending what you camp it can take at most 20 drops of the 5k rare item or 12.5 drops of an 8k item. Sounds alot but if you pepper in FS loots and coinage from selling crap you get trying to get the 5k+ items it will drop these numbers alot.

Example. King camp in Guk. Drops 2k Crown non stop. 750/1k Sword uncommonly and then the tact drops the 8k Circlet. Can easily make 13k (2 crowns + sword and circlet) in one camp assuming you stay til Circlet drops. If no circlet you can make 2k every-time you camp it as you are almost guaranteed 1 king every 90 minutes (Have had 3 in a row then 1 ph and another before).

P.S. And to answer original post, Go Barb if you want but avoid Iksar. Even in Velious JBB is awesome. Also a-lot more gear choices for Ogre or Barb. If you do go Barb you get Seb scale gear, jarsath gear, plate gear, jbb, Imbued Granite Spaulders (very underrated resist item)+ many more. Also faster leveling. I prefer Ogre for FSI but I played Barb on live and survived Kunark/Velious just fine. If you aren't going for Torpor you wont be fighting the stuff IFS is best against.

P.S.S. I skipped ahead and see Aamok mentioned alot of the gear I was talking about with Barb. IGS so nice.

[aamok]

yeah IGS is pretty badass. to be honest, after making my ogre and getting him to like 40, i remade as a barbarian because of the gear that i realized was unavailable to fat guys.

after a few days of this (wearing my IGS and shit feeling all cool) i decided two things: 1) screw levelling that far again and 2)ogres rule and everyone else can gtfo. fat guy power /flex

[aamok]

waitasec.. maybe i need coffee.. fsi?

[fishingme]

Iksar or troll for regen. Regen is a big game changer. If you know how to play, stun immunity is worthless.

[chuggy]

Frontal stuns are so rare it's not even worth thinking about. Play the race you think looks cool

[DrKvothe]

Barb for leveling way faster (including OP gnoll fang quest, which can take you into your 20s), looking cooler (including a polar bear hat), good faction (which you can selectively wreck, but still be left with some easily accessed banks), not being stupidly over-sized or having a tail.

Any one of these things trumps regen or frontal stun immunity.

[BlkCamel]

waitasec.. maybe i need coffee.. fsi?

frontal stun immunity = FSI sorry.:D

[aamok]

hahah yeah i'm a tard for not figuring that out :D

[Orruar]

Any shaman can click puppet strings, yes. For high end velious soloing you will want to be an ogre.

Not true. Unless you can name for me a mob that has the following characteristics:
- Not rootable
- Not kitable during slow phase
- High MR

Once a mob is slowed, the ogre stun immunity is essentially 0 benefit. Troll and iksar regen are far more useful.

[Widan]

You don't have to keep track of when a mob is using what skill. You can cast every spell exactly when it's needed. Without it you're going to have to wait roughly 20% of the time to cast Torpor or else you will be interrupted, on a slowed mob. How do you not realize how immensely beneficial this is?

With Torpor + Regrowth + Fungi you're at 334 hp/tick fighting mobs as an Ogre, as a Troll or Iksar you are at 342 hp/tick. Wow so good.

It's pretty clear which one is better.

(Yes, I'm aware the original question was without Torpor, but the guy I was responding to referenced the solo artist challenge)

[Orruar]

Where do you get this 20% number from? A slowed mob will land a bash couple minutes at most. That means you have roughly a 5% chance of being interrupted on torpor, assuming you don't watch the incoming melee rounds. And if you don't watch the incoming melee rounds to time your long spells (torpor/dots), you're going to be interrupted far more often by straight up melee damage interrupts than by bashes.

[Danth]

Torpor is expensive enough that a player who isn't highly dedicated to his character (maybe he has alts, or maybe the Shaman itself is an alt) might not afford it. Going with the original poster's desire to assume not having Torpor, my thoughts are as follows: All Shamans at 60 who lack Torpor, regardless of race, are gimped compared to any Shaman who has that spell. With that in mind you may as well pick whatever race you like the best. Regen will probably give the most useful benefit to a non-Torpor Shaman, but it's not remotely enough to bridge the gap. As such, I wouldn't pick a race just for regen unless I already liked that race, anyway.

Even with Torpor, it's worth remembering that there are no monsters that an Ogre can solo that another race cannot. Race choice simply isn't as crucial for a Shaman as it is for some other classes. Essentially you get to pick from four races, any of which are pretty good choices. Folks will debate the merits of various races until EQ is but a memory, but at the end of the day you can do what you do because you're a Shaman, regardless of what race you pick at creation.

Danth

[gobbosnobbo]

Even with Torpor, it's worth remembering that there are no monsters that an Ogre can solo that another race cannot. Race choice simply isn't as crucial for a Shaman as it is for some other classes.


This right here, ends the debate completely.

You're not going to have an easier time with ogre, thats just the truth.

I'd rather have the extra regen + the snare trinket from troll, its as simple as that.

Just more benefits.

What people dont get is that with regrowth, fungi, and troll regen, thats over 45 health per tick. Thats 135 health in 9 seconds, that is massive. Especially if fights go over a minute (and they do).

You're basically looking at 900 health (give or take, math isnt exact) a minute. Thats 1800 health in two minutes, and you're not casting a damn thing.

Sorry, but regen is huge, especially as the fight goes on. Period. Its about efficiency and the long run, and in velious, dragon fights are long.


Or look at it this way, every 9 seconds, you negate a monster hit of 135 points. Its sort of a big deal.

[Schwing]

You mean every 18 seconds?

[Buriedpast]

Ogre.

With a max AC build.

[Malrubius]

It doesn't matter one gobsnot whether you get *stunned* or not. What matters is getting *interrupted*, and that happens to Ogres all the time, just as with other classes. Sure, your melee attack doesn't pause, but the interrupt still happens. I almost feel like I was ripped off by the "Frontal Stun Immunity" thing.

An innate Fungi Tunic (trolls and iksars) is huge though.

[DrKvothe]

At end-game, racial choices don't matter much due to the disproportionate power of our spells/epic. At 60, your power level relative to another shaman depends on torpor, epic, malo, and then things like clicky buffs, hp/resist gear, and other high end shaman spells (dots, 55 pet, etc.). These things costs platinum, and your platinum farming speed is highly level dependent, so you could argue that the strongest race is the one that gets you to 60 the fastest (and thus gives you a head start in funding torpor and post-torpor purchases).

So the "best race" will be the one that gets you to 60 the fastest. That's going to depend somewhat on how experienced you are with the game. Being non-kos to most humanoids is helpful if you're unfamiliar with most of the leveling zones or if you want to exploit all of the really OP turn-in quests early on, in which case barbarian wins. On the other hand, regen is really, really nice. Between troll and iksar: iksar has more faction problems, they have different leveling zones (depends on your tastes and experience with these zones), trolls get a neat snare clicky, iksars have a harder time getting to EC for 55/5 rings if you're untwinked, trolls are really fat and ugly, iksars can't use JBB. The importance of each of these minor factors depends on your knowledge of the game and personal preferences.

I'm tempted to roll an iksar shaman just to level through the kunark zones. I get bored of every other class =(

[Cecily]

Troll and Iksar looks are deal breakers for me, but then again so is Barbarian.

Ogre is just
http://i.imgur.com/8ExCYPn.jpg

[SyanideGas]

troll is master race

[Painperdu]

Hi guys,

I played an ogre shaman on live from 2000 to end 2002. I'm playing an Ikky shaman on this server.

There is something intriguing me in this thread : no one here talked about Slam. That's something I just don't understand, as it is a skill making a real difference between the large races and iksar and much more valuable than the FSI which doesn't change the fact you'll get interrupted if you should have been stunned anyway.

Being able to interrupt a casting mob is priceless. It works in group and in raid, on any target, you just need to land the 1dmg.
As an ikky it is the skill I lack the most; I don't care about anything else but this. You can keep your lame useless JBB or your IFS that only saves you from death once every month, because I got the looking. But if I could get that Slam...

[Tormax]

I don't see it posted much here either, but damn, it sure does help with those gating mobs.

[Tuljin]

Slam kicks ass and its very much an underrated ability.

Talking about efficiency, mix/max, etc - I've seen an Iksar Shaman make 60 incredibly quickly without AOE proxy, and its somebody who has work/school/life outside EQ (also happens to be a great player, however)

Forget about frontal stun immunity and slam, Iksar doesn't even get JBB.

Race really doesn't matter at the end of the day. Some players prefer Slam over frontal stun immunity, some players prefer Iksar over JBB. It all comes down to your level of nubbage. Shaman is OP and easy to get to XP with, period.

[Rararboker]

Slam over frontal stun immunity? WTF? Ogres get slam AND frontal stun immunity.