Monk & Cleric/Shaman Duo

[MaSQue]

Sorry, this will be long.
Hoping I can get constructive help on this one guys.

I originally leveled my Shaman to 41 a while back and quit the game for a time, recently returning with a friend and he fired a new Monk up so I did a Cleric with him and we have done the Duo thing from 1 to 41. Now I understand how god mode a Shaman/Monk is but I have some questions. The Monk/Cleric duo has actually worked out really well, never had any serious issues maintaining Mana and keeping buffs on the Monk. The Shaman on the other hand it seems like I am constantly having Mana issues with keeping the Monk fully buffed and maintaining Regen and Haste on the Monk as well while all the while keeping him healed with my crappy heals (compared to my Cleric).

The Cleric needs to maintain 3 core buffs and has great heals along with Rezz spells as I level they get better while the Shaman has like 8 core buffs plus Regen and haste and it just eats my mana up and I am finding it hard for him to keep constant pulls coming and have the mana to keep him alive with the Shaman where with the Cleric it is quite easy. Before it was easier due to I had a loner Manastone and a Fungi (Both loaned out to me which I no longer have) so before it was simple, just constant Mana Stone my Mana back up but Cani isnt no where close to Mana Stone lol. "Both the Cleric and the Shaman have high Wisdom and Mana Pools btw"

The Shaman and Cleric are both 41 now and we plan to continue on to 60 but we are not sure which will be better. As I said, we have had zero problems with the Cleric and Monk duo and I am wondering if I should just stay with the Cleric and keep on the journey to 60 as we currently are. Gongshow swears up and down Shaman is the way to go and I long ago learned to listen to my good friend, but I am not sure why, but I just feel better with the Cleric in the Duo. I feel comfortable with the Cleric even though the Shaman has SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more utility on a PvP server. End game though Clerics in groups are sick plus the Rezz's are going to come in handy with death's.

I could really use some help on this one guys. I understand the Red99 forums are the Devils work lol but I can't decide on this on my own and am hoping I can get some constructive thinking on this one.

[Super Hater]

Sorry, this will be long.
Hoping I can get constructive help on this one guys.

I originally leveled my Shaman to 41 a while back and quit the game for a time, recently returning with a friend and he fired a new Monk up so I did a Cleric with him and we have done the Duo thing from 1 to 41. Now I understand how god mode a Shaman/Monk is but I have some questions. The Monk/Cleric duo has actually worked out really well, never had any serious issues maintaining Mana and keeping buffs on the Monk. The Shaman on the other hand it seems like I am constantly having Mana issues with keeping the Monk fully buffed and maintaining Regen and Haste on the Monk as well while all the while keeping him healed with my crappy heals (compared to my Cleric).

The Cleric needs to maintain 3 core buffs and has great heals along with Rezz spells as I level they get better while the Shaman has like 8 core buffs plus Regen and haste and it just eats my mana up and I am finding it hard for him to keep constant pulls coming and have the mana to keep him alive with the Shaman where with the Cleric it is quite easy. Before it was easier due to I had a loner Manastone and a Fungi (Both loaned out to me which I no longer have) so before it was simple, just constant Mana Stone my Mana back up but Cani isnt no where close to Mana Stone lol. "Both the Cleric and the Shaman have high Wisdom and Mana Pools btw"

The Shaman and Cleric are both 41 now and we plan to continue on to 60 but we are not sure which will be better. As I said, we have had zero problems with the Cleric and Monk duo and I am wondering if I should just stay with the Cleric and keep on the journey to 60 as we currently are. Gongshow swears up and down Shaman is the way to go and I long ago learned to listen to my good friend, but I am not sure why, but I just feel better with the Cleric in the Duo. I feel comfortable with the Cleric even though the Shaman has SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more utility on a PvP server. End game though Clerics in groups are sick plus the Rezz's are going to come in handy with death's.

I could really use some help on this one guys. I understand the Red99 forums are the Devils work lol but I can't decide on this on my own and am hoping I can get some constructive thinking on this one.

TLDR

[MaSQue]

TLDR

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1361512602_1b2157e533492e78297c16e6cbe1dfceb91d191 .gif

[Eslade]

I'd say stick with the cleric. Later on you can expand your group and you already have pulls, dps and heals ready to go. You can always level the shaman up later.

[HippoNipple]

You shouldn't need to keep up 8 buffs at a time while you are leveling. Just use 4-5 and the duration of those buffs should be going up soon for you.

[MaSQue]

You shouldn't need to keep up 8 buffs at a time while you are leveling. Just use 4-5 and the duration of those buffs should be going up soon for you.

No, but keeping all the buffs up make the Monk just that much better of a Monk.

[deadlycupcakez]

essentially the damage mitigation from the shaman slow saves mana the cleric would spend healing, and monk truly only needs tali/str/sta/haste/regen.

But i just think clerics are cooler

[MaSQue]

But i just think clerics are coolerobviously I must be thinking this too or I would not have made this thread lol

I would think some others would be needed also don't ya think?

[Kergan]

The harder stuff gets the better the shaman will become relative to the cleric because of slow. Mobs see a big HP and damage increase when you go to Kunark. At 41 you're also at basically the pinnacle of cleric effectiveness because you have CH and the monk can probably kill at least one mob per cast. Shamans are stuck using greater healing until 53 so there is quite a bit of chain casting heals which leads to a lot less med time.

Basically, as you level up that won't be the case anymore. Plus buffs get longer duration so there will be less rebuffing, you get better cannibalizes and more effective slows. Your heals will never get more efficient than CH though, so aside from more HP on buffs slightly increasing the efficiency of CH your cleric will lose relative effectiveness to the shaman more and more each level.

Throw in epic/jbb/pet for free shaman damage, SoW, and the ability to make potions (it takes only moderate skill to make SoW and ITU pots) and I think that edges cleric rez for general utility as well. Typically as a duo you aren't going to be delving deep into dungeons or anything so your deaths should be very minimal or PVP related (no exp loss).

The final jump is the big one though at 60 when you get torpor. Also keep in mind how fast leveling is here. 41-50+ when you'll start to notice a big difference might only be 3-4 days of playing semi casually.

[Colgate]

would much, much rather duo with a shaman at 60 than a cleric

[Kergan]

would much, much rather duo with a shaman at 60 than a cleric

you can be my wing man any time

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/07/425_topgun_800px.jpg

[MaSQue]

essentially the damage mitigation from the shaman slow saves mana the cleric would spend healing, and monk truly only needs tali/str/sta/haste/regen.



What You Say ......
Talisman of Tnarg: HP Buff
Furious Strength: STR
Health: STA
Quickness: Haste
Chloroplast: Regen

I understand those are required to be on at all times but ..... there are three other buffs I have been trying to maintain that seem like a must as well don't ya think?

Shifting Shield: AC Buff
Nimble: AGI
Deftness: DEX

[Kergan]

You an iksar? If not at 46 you can get jb pieces really cheap to buff for free. It'll be 1 tier back from the top buff but only like 5-10 of a stat.

[MaSQue]

You an iksar? If not at 46 you can get jb pieces really cheap to buff for free. It'll be 1 tier back from the top buff but only like 5-10 of a stat.

Barbarian Shaman

Also since I am jumping back into this head first if I stay with my Shaman (which appears I will be doing just that since so many have shown me the light on several things better with a Shaman than Cleric. I would ask this also ......... At 41, What should my 8 Spells on my hotbar look like? What do most Shamans prefer to keep on the ready and what do most keep on hot standby (un memmed but ready to swap in) I am thinking, just keep utility only memmed ..... Root, Heal, Cani, Regen then maybe Haste, Slow, (DoT's???)


PS: and thanks guys, for the most part (baring a couple kids posting) you all have been a huge help, I appreciate that thanks.

[Kergan]

Keep PVP spells memmed at all times bro, + slow.

[deadlycupcakez]

always dispell, gate, root, heal, dot, dd, slow

memming spells is so fast on p99 you can just have your last slot be for switching in buffs

[MaSQue]

Would Like to still discuss the following some more ......

essentially the damage mitigation from the shaman slow saves mana the cleric would spend healing, and monk truly only needs tali/str/sta/haste/regen.



What You Say ......
Talisman of Tnarg: HP Buff
Furious Strength: STR
Health: STA
Quickness: Haste
Chloroplast: Regen

I understand those are required to be on at all times but ..... there are three other buffs I have been trying to maintain that seem like a must as well don't ya think?

Shifting Shield: AC Buff
Nimble: AGI
Deftness: DEX

[HippoNipple]

Would Like to still discuss the following some more ......



What You Say ......
Talisman of Tnarg: HP Buff
Furious Strength: STR
Health: STA
Quickness: Haste
Chloroplast: Regen

I understand those are required to be on at all times but ..... there are three other buffs I have been trying to maintain that seem like a must as well don't ya think?

Shifting Shield: AC Buff
Nimble: AGI
Deftness: DEX

It doesn't matter, just get in mid 50's and all your problems will be solved. You will get mid 50's whether or not your monk has extra dex or not. He probably doesn't have a proc on weapons and doesn't need dex at all.

As for AC/AGI they will help out some but people also complain about effectiveness of AC on this server so who knows if it is really that relevant.

If you are sitting there medding and not killing because you are keeping up those buffs then drop them and see if you can keep monk healed without, compare down time. Those buffs are damage mitigation so it should be easy to measure if it is worth it, do you have to med more with or without keeping the buffs up (does the extra AC reduce the heals as much as the buffs cost to cast?)

[MaSQue]

aight ... will do some test runs if he ever logs on. he is running late for some reason

[Nirgon]

sup bubs

[Samhain]

I main a cleric and alt a shaman (priest classes for me in all RPGs). I have to say that while Cleric is essential for higher end content and groups a shaman is a lot of fun and brings massive utility to group.

Higher level shaman slow plus Regrowth make up for some of the healing discrepancy. Add to that the incoming damage mitigation and outgoing amplification buffs and you've got a powerful duo or group member with shaman.

Plus you're on Red pre-AC fix patch (if it ever comes) where cleric's plate means nothing and cleric offensive PVP is lulz. As a cleric you get focused and are difficult to kill but that's about it. With shaman you have a pet, can lower MR, slow, DoT as well as SoW and Cheetah; a much more formidable adversary.

Edit: Oh, and shamans can solo exp and farm second only to Enchanters. Clerics; lulz.

[MaSQue]

There any trick macros that make Shaman life easier?

[Kergan]

Not really that I can think of. Maybe an assist the monk then pet attack one? I dunno.

p.s. hit dalnir's while it is still good exp and farm some solid gear for the monk. Just stay away from the kly overseer.

[MaSQue]

Not really that I can think of. Maybe an assist the monk then pet attack one? I dunno.

p.s. hit dalnir's while it is still good exp and farm some solid gear for the monk. Just stay away from the kly overseer.

been there done that already ;)
thanks bud