Decisons, decisions...

[alWald0]

Hello fellow P99 users, I am currently in a dilemma. I want to make a shaman as my alt, but can't decide between barb, ogre, and troll. Any help is appreciated, and also if you can tell me some gear to get, but nothing that is worth thousands of plat.

[Itchybottom]

Ogre, for belly slowing without being stunned. Gear is pretty generic, there's actually a gear recommendations thread somewhere around here.

[alWald0]

I was told by a lot of people to go troll.

[fastboy21]

play what you like, that way you'll have fun (sounds complicated...).

the racial factor for a shaman isn't going to make or break you. lots like troll because it has natural regen to help with canni. lots like ogre because no frontal stun, which is awesome for casters. barbs are the only "good" faction shaman available, which is good if you want to play/bank in certain zones...

in the end, just play what you like.

[Alawen Everywhere]

The stun immunity makes a difference in what high end mobs you can or cannot solo in Kunark and Velious. Barbarians get a nice hammer for melee dps and higher wisdom in classic; trolls have their regeneration. Ogres are the best shamans.

[Estu]

This exact question is being discussed in the following thread, which is on the front page: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17062

[alWald0]

Thanks for the link, but a list of gear would be nice, just so i can estimate how much i need in the future.

[alWald0]

Well after reading these replies, i suppose im leaning more towards ogre.

[alWald0]

But what about the stat points? Does it matter or should i just put 10 into highlighted attributes?

[Alawen Everywhere]

Unfortunately, I lack the experience to know how to best spend your stats. My semi-educated guess is that wisdom might be a good idea for ogres based on their already high stamina, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that I'm wrong.

[Tseng]

Troll for regen

[alWald0]

I lack the experience of being a eq vet, which can hurt at times. But when your like 4 or 5 years old, watching this was fun. Hoping to get the first 50 (60 for kunark) in my family.

[Reiker]

Ogre, stamina.

[Wenai]

Troll for regen
Overrated. Come Kunark you just cast Torpor on yourself whether you are Troll, Ogre, Barbarian or Iksar. The regen helps (not saying it doesn't) but it is extremely overrated once Kunark hits.

Also the snare necklace is overrated.

Ogre, stamina.
True that. Look at start stats for Ogre .vs. Barbarian.

If a barbarian maxes WIS on creation, a barbarian gets 105 WIS. If an ogre maxes WIS on creation, an ogre gets 103 WIS.

I think barbarian has 105 STA and ogre has something stupid around 130 STA. Hit points are far more important than mana for a shaman although I always suggest a good balance.

So by going Ogre you are only giving up like 2 Wisdom by gaining like 25 STA extra or something.

[Estu]

I don't know why people say to go STA instead of WIS. Canni gives you about 1 mana for 2 hp and you don't get a good return on STA since you're a caster. Go WIS IMO.

[Ridic]

Ogres, all the way to the bank. Why? Cause they have insane stam (it'll make up for not regening) and are stun immuned from the front (which is really awesome for soloing, or landing that root in group, after aggro-slow)

[fastboy21]

I don't know why people say to go STA instead of WIS. Canni gives you about 1 mana for 2 hp and you don't get a good return on STA since you're a caster. Go WIS IMO.

because...you don't die if you go oom. you die if you run out of hp. shamans need to be built with taking combat damage in mind. slow is one of the biggest aggro dealers in the game, and you are going to draw aggro. a good shaman isn't the one that can cast slow (all shamans can do that) its the one that isn't paper and can take a few hits that is going to be most useful.

the benefit of wisdom can much more easily be made up with gear than stamina in my opinion also.

[guineapig]

Also, wisdom effects what size your full mana pool is... when does a shaman have a full mana pool?

[Wenai]

Also, wisdom effects what size your full mana pool is... when does a shaman have a full mana pool?
NEVAR.

Manapool doesn't really matter except in really sticky situations in which you are chain casting roots/heals/dots etc. But that is why I still preach a balance of WIS/STA/HP/AC. Be prepared for every situation. :p

[quellren]

I know this makes me sound like a jerk, but:
Isn't the romance of EQ figuring things out for yourself? One of the things that annoys me the most most about the WoW generation of MMOs (and MMO gamers) is the insistence of "a gear list" that you must strive for, or you're considered sub-par and 'fail'. Just stack wis to 175-180, then stack stam. In the beginning, under 20, get a set of banded and go to work. The shaman has both the pleasure and the curse of having a wide variety of gear that is 'good' for them. I've seen shaman with 55hp rings, and the 6wis rings(or one of each), shaman with 2hb, and spear and shield, Caster shaman in high wis leather/cloth, and 'battlemage' shaman in high AC chain.

Since someones gonna start this same thread next week, here are some common, ubiquitous items that the vast majority of shaman seek out.

Bloodstained tunic (Foremans tunic isn't bad either)
Charred Guardian Shield
Gloomwater harpoon
Sharkbone warhammer (Theres another 1hb with wis, but I don't remember the name)
Lizardscale mantle
Runed mithral bracers (there are other choices, inc. player made)
Black Iron Medalion
Chrysoberl Talisman (can be pricey)
+wis jewelry
5ac/55hp rings
Some times a savants cap (low AC, but +3wis)
Each of these pieces should be between 50 and 400p. If you can't afford that, stick to the banded armor until you can.
Not every slot has an ideal piece, some you just gotta wear whats available. Cloak comes to mind.

Just level. The gear will come. If you need a refresher, spend some time in EC as you level up, clicking the links in /auc. You'll start seeing gear that looks like it'd work.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I am starting to wonder if wisdom vs stamina is a total false dichotomy.

How many hit points does each point of stamina give a shaman at 50 and at 60? I've read the "wisdom" over and over to put your points into stamina, but I'm definitely not convinced for other casters. Shamans are unclear to me because of the mad aggro and beats from slow on raid mobs.

For my druid and cleric, stamina is a complete waste of points. Pump up that wisdom and free up slots for hp/mana gear.

So how much is it? Do 25 points in stamina wind up giving 50 hit points or some other trivial amount? If we're going to min/max this, let's do it right.

[Wenai]

I am starting to wonder if wisdom vs stamina is a total false dichotomy.

How many hit points does each point of stamina give a shaman at 50 and at 60? I've read the "wisdom" over and over to put your points into stamina, but I'm definitely not convinced for other casters. Shamans are unclear to me because of the mad aggro and beats from slow on raid mobs.

For my druid and cleric, stamina is a complete waste of points. Pump up that wisdom and free up slots for hp/mana gear.

So how much is it? Do 25 points in stamina wind up giving 50 hit points or some other trivial amount? If we're going to min/max this, let's do it right.
Wisdom is easy to max.. Stamina is not. That is why people say to dump stats into stamina.

My shaman uses a balance of gear on the server (I wear a lot of AC/HP gear and such) and I still have 189 WIS without even trying.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Wisdom is easy to max.. Stamina is not. That is why people say to dump stats into stamina.

My shaman uses a balance of gear on the server (I wear a lot of AC/HP gear and such) and I still have 189 WIS without even trying.

My question is does maxing stamina matter at all? How many hit points are we actually talking about? If it's 50, take off a 6 wisdom ring and put on a Djarn's for more mana AND more hit points.

[Wenai]

My question is does maxing stamina matter at all? How many hit points are we actually talking about? If it's 50, take off a 6 wisdom ring and put on a Djarn's for more mana AND more hit points.
First of all.. a shaman should not be wearing a 6 wisdom ring.. hell.. NO ONE should be wearing a 6 wis ring. In my opinion, it is stupid to give up 110 hp/10ac for 12 wisdom. There aren't many good +HP slots in classic EQ. Giving up an easily affordable/attainable slot for WIS is just stupid.

Looking to the future.. it will be no problem for someone to max their Wisdom in Kunark/Velious. You can't go past the cap.. so even if you have 290 WIS from gear... in reality you are capped and you are wasting stats.

That being said.. I rolled my shaman with WIS maxxed. Just because I felt like it. :p I am not a min/maxer and I had no interest in making the classic content more difficult on myself by going for STA instead of WIS.

[Eccentricaa]

I don't know why people say to go STA instead of WIS. Canni gives you about 1 mana for 2 hp and you don't get a good return on STA since you're a caster. Go WIS IMO.

More hp = longer life

Shamans get regen, we dont get crack.

Wis gear is easier to find, and will most likely be the first stat you will cap. Sta gear is a little bit harder for non plate wearers. There are still some good parts out there, but most folks seem to think shaman only want wis.

Regen on troll / iksar is great, but trolls can get quest for clicky snare necklace.
Sow, free snare and epic dot = solo anything and never run oom. (might just take you forever, but its doable..)

[Skope]

I am starting to wonder if wisdom vs stamina is a total false dichotomy.

How many hit points does each point of stamina give a shaman at 50 and at 60? I've read the "wisdom" over and over to put your points into stamina, but I'm definitely not convinced for other casters. Shamans are unclear to me because of the mad aggro and beats from slow on raid mobs.

For my druid and cleric, stamina is a complete waste of points. Pump up that wisdom and free up slots for hp/mana gear.

So how much is it? Do 25 points in stamina wind up giving 50 hit points or some other trivial amount? If we're going to min/max this, let's do it right.

Neither is a bad choice. stamina return at lvl 50 is weak, and at 60 it still remains relatively weak :P During classic you're more wis dependent due to your spell line and slow-casting cannibalize (recast timer is slower and chews up less health). With wisdom/dex gear I have 201 wisdom and around 200 dex without a +dex pot (full rune etched minus helm - totemic and boots - eboots), while still wielding a hammer and melee'ing. The character is used to raid, but when farming I throw on melee gear and drop to ~180wis and ~220-230 dex. In terms of classic, you're better off with higher wisdom than you are with +hp. Your AC/hp should be quite high regardless and have enough to take a few hits before it gets taunted back off. If i need to off-tank i throw on the ac/hp gear and off-tank trash comfortably.

He's right when he said achieving balanced stats are important, but it's my belief that throwing points into +wisdom at the beginning frees up inventory slots for your other stats.

Also have to keep in mind that as a shaman some of the priest gear that does include massive wis/hp/mana won't go to you until the regular clerics have it, leaving you at the middle of the line for some gear.

[mgellan]

I just can't stare at an Ogre or Troll for 50 levels, Barb FTW!

Regards,
Mg

[alWald0]

Barb's remind me to much of humans, ogre's and troll's ugliness makes them awesome!

[Wizerud]

Seems to be a pretty easy dilemma to solve. If you never find yourself running out of mana in normal situations (depending on your playstyle) don't bother stocking up on wis anymore.

[Reiker]

Back in classic we had a term for shaman who would stack wisdom gear... Druman (shaman who thinks he's a druid).